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So I tried out thehorde foot GK w/IG allies against necrons. Won faily handly, but feel I need a bit more mobility. This is the list I used.

Coteaz

10x GKSS 2x pc srg w/ dh psyammo

Henchmen: 3xplasmagun 8xstormbolters 1xjokaero

Henchmen: 3xplasmagun 8xstormbolters 1xjokaero

Henchmen: 3xmeltaun 8xbolters

Stormraven MM, LC, SL

IG CCS AC, 2xplasmagun astropath camocloaks

Platoon: PCS 3xmelta 1xflamer srg w/plasmapistol

3xplatoon squads all with ac, plasmagun and 1 w/commisar

8man pysker battle squad

Vendetta w/dh heavybolters

Manticore


For mobility I have the PCS in the vendetta, bolter hencmen in GK, and GKSS Deepstriking.

With this slowing enemies down, I think I can walk my IG and henchmen to midfield objectives.

Any ideas?

Guard IS:s doesnt allow for more than one special weapon/squad, or do you mean that there are three IS:s, each with an AC and a PG?

I was just about to ask about the longevity/mobility of the CCS and PCS but it seems you've already considered that.

Your correct, 3x platoon squads each with ac and pg. Yea mobility of foot armies scares me.

I don't get your weapon choices for the Henchmen; Bolters and Plasma Guns are at their best when you are static, and Meltaguns and Stormbolters are for on the move, yet you've paired the Plasma Guns with the Stormbolters and the Meltaguns with the Bolters.

But you really have to take in the range importance for henchmen, they really need to be as far from combat units as possible, so I pair the ranges together, and put the meltas in with the bolters because they are the ones that go into the stormraven and are the mostly ones to get in close for melta and rapid purposes.

Why are bolters and plasma best when their statics? They shoot the same if they moved or sat still. 1 shot at 24" and 2 at 12".

It's actually a pretty good list cyote. The foot lists are really becomming quite popular which is one of the reasons we are seeing the shift from AC dreads over to DK's with incinerators which I think is going to be one of the bigger weaknesses of your list.

Units that deny cover saves are really comming back into the playing field which is a great change from before so stuff like hellhounds/ LR eradicator/colossus/hellfury missles are really going to start to take a liking to eating up lots of guardsmen and other units so dependent on cover.

Despite what initial thoughts were to the reduction to cover from 4+ to 5+, I'm seening even more and more armies really getting a ton of saves out of the still plentiful ruins/sides of hills/tank traps and the oh so popular aegis line now a days at more competitive levels simply because glancing has been so devestating to light armor that foot is now in, and foot always hugs cover. With guard, you can enjoy alot out of cover what with GBItF being so useful now.

Overall, I'd rate your list pretty good. If you look at my first page list of things to bring for 6th TAC lists, you fulfilled most of the spots nicely. You got some barrage plates for gimping positioning IC abuse lists. You got good flier builds that can take down other fliers, you got alot of high powered and low AP shooting to cover terminators and most armor. All those AC is pretty devestating too so you got your MEQ killing down. I do worry a bit about horde killing potential for the list however. I've recently made a 1500 ork list that has about 45 lootas + like 90 boys/grots and a barebones KFF that I'd think your list would struggle a bit against. Maybe consider a bit more anti-horde by switching a few things around?

I can see some potential changes to knock off a few points such as the plasma pistol for the platoon sarge. Swap a few AC over to missle launchers to give a few more blasts? The astropath would only affect your one vendetta as it doesn't work on allies of convience so it's probably not that useful. I actually have found from personal testing that I often don't find the HB's on the vendetta that useful as in general I'm generally shooting at armor or unless I find a pure horde list though I can see the benefit in forcing glances on AV10 and 11 fliers. Also very cheap so it may be worth it. Just personally didn't have too much luck with them though your milage may vary. I also tend to take a fairly minimilistic approach to my units so it's more a style thing. Otherwise it's a very minor point.

As to your mobility issues, I've had similar problems with things but with foot guard, I've had some good experiences to really use the heck out of "Move Move Move" to get pretty far each turn with a small-ish platoon (possibly making them cheaper by taking away some upgrades) going for linebreaker if I had them up at standard deployment and start huffing it by turn 3 the latest.

Only downsides like I've already said is 1) reliance on cover and bodies so large blasts or long range templates will be your downfall though these are thankfully still not as readily seen thanks to MEQ still being so popular. 2) mobility can be countered a bit by what you did with your deep strikes and maybe consider alot of move move move orders. The key is to not over extend your deep strike units. As the rest of your firebase is kind of static, may want to deep strike a bit closer to get some fire support. A dedicated CC unit will likely chew through your offense if unsupported. The manticore is not that great of a support weapon as you may easily wipe out your own men with too many blast templates. Otherwise good list. A few tweaks here and there should see you doing well. Positioning(and to some extent how lucky you get with terrain and objective positioning /target priority/and know your weaknesses will be key to playing this list well.

Final report from the tournament here. See the final game, some pictures, and the conclusion.

Coyote81 wrote:
But you really have to take in the range importance for henchmen, they really need to be as far from combat units as possible, so I pair the ranges together, and put the meltas in with the bolters because they are the ones that go into the stormraven and are the mostly ones to get in close for melta and rapid purposes.

Why are bolters and plasma best when their statics? They shoot the same if they moved or sat still. 1 shot at 24" and 2 at 12".

Sorry I'm still thinking of 5th edition. Still, it is better to keep it all Rapid Fire or all Assault, that way in all situations the unit works to its best potential. Of course easier option if you have no intention of assaulting is to give them all Bolters instead of Storm Bolters.

Final report from the tournament here. See the final game, some pictures, and the conclusion.

Nicely done! The storm ravens have always been one of my favorite units so I'm very happy to see them playing such a strong role in a game. I'm surprised those long fangs took down the 2 DK's so fast. Just how many 1's did you end up rolling in a row ???? @_@ ????

I'm kind of curious now how you plan to use those purifiers in the future. Keep us posted. was an excellent read especially with all the nice animation tools. What is that program you use for that thing to show your unit movements? I wanna steal it.

 sudojoe wrote:

Final report from the tournament here. See the final game, some pictures, and the conclusion.

Nicely done! The storm ravens have always been one of my favorite units so I'm very happy to see them playing such a strong role in a game. I'm surprised those long fangs took down the 2 DK's so fast. Just how many 1's did you end up rolling in a row ???? @_@ ????

I'm kind of curious now how you plan to use those purifiers in the future. Keep us posted. was an excellent read especially with all the nice animation tools. What is that program you use for that thing to show your unit movements? I wanna steal it.

Well there was 2 Lascannons in one squad and 2 Plasma Cannons in the other. They each did a wound turn one, so in turn two those weapons took 2 more, and I only had to roll a single 1 to lose the last.

I'm running the Purifiers 10 man strong in a Rhino with 4 Psycannons, Hammer, and 5 Halberds with Psybolts. Note the next tornament is 1850pts too, so I'm downsizing to that points value.

As for the program, its called Battle Chroniclar and is free. Easy to find on Google.

holy crap, we've past 30k views @_@. Didn't think we'd get this far with this thread.

Well there was 2 Lascannons in one squad and 2 Plasma Cannons in the other. They each did a wound turn one, so in turn two those weapons took 2 more, and I only had to roll a single 1 to lose the last.

interesting. I'm so used to pure missle spam I honestly had a brain spasm and forgot they can take las/plasma cannons. Locally I tend to face about 18 missle whenever I come across missles. Probably a better loadlout for 6th with need for AP2 powers.

Let me know how your purifier testing goes. I'm using them almost exclusively as elites now just cause I find crowe so broken by this edition. (still ok with like coteaz as the warlord however and when gk are the allies, it's all good ) I've not run a pure purifier list in like 3 months now.

 sudojoe wrote:
holy crap, we've past 30k views @_@. Didn't think we'd get this far with this thread.

Well there was 2 Lascannons in one squad and 2 Plasma Cannons in the other. They each did a wound turn one, so in turn two those weapons took 2 more, and I only had to roll a single 1 to lose the last.

interesting. I'm so used to pure missle spam I honestly had a brain spasm and forgot they can take las/plasma cannons. Locally I tend to face about 18 missle whenever I come across missles. Probably a better loadlout for 6th with need for AP2 powers.

Let me know how your purifier testing goes. I'm using them almost exclusively as elites now just cause I find crowe so broken by this edition. (still ok with like coteaz as the warlord however and when gk are the allies, it's all good ) I've not run a pure purifier list in like 3 months now.

Im running the same, two squads of purifiers as elites, crowe really is a waste of 150 points that I would rather spend on other things, the only problem is that only leaves one spot open for techmarines, assassin, paladins etc, was even going to switch a psyfleman to elite to open up room for another dreadknight.

 sudojoe wrote:
It's actually a pretty good list cyote. The foot lists are really becomming quite popular which is one of the reasons we are seeing the shift from AC dreads over to DK's with incinerators which I think is going to be one of the bigger weaknesses of your list.

Units that deny cover saves are really comming back into the playing field which is a great change from before so stuff like hellhounds/ LR eradicator/colossus/hellfury missles are really going to start to take a liking to eating up lots of guardsmen and other units so dependent on cover.

Despite what initial thoughts were to the reduction to cover from 4+ to 5+, I'm seening even more and more armies really getting a ton of saves out of the still plentiful ruins/sides of hills/tank traps and the oh so popular aegis line now a days at more competitive levels simply because glancing has been so devestating to light armor that foot is now in, and foot always hugs cover. With guard, you can enjoy alot out of cover what with GBItF being so useful now.

Overall, I'd rate your list pretty good. If you look at my first page list of things to bring for 6th TAC lists, you fulfilled most of the spots nicely. You got some barrage plates for gimping positioning IC abuse lists. You got good flier builds that can take down other fliers, you got alot of high powered and low AP shooting to cover terminators and most armor. All those AC is pretty devestating too so you got your MEQ killing down. I do worry a bit about horde killing potential for the list however. I've recently made a 1500 ork list that has about 45 lootas + like 90 boys/grots and a barebones KFF that I'd think your list would struggle a bit against. Maybe consider a bit more anti-horde by switching a few things around?

I can see some potential changes to knock off a few points such as the plasma pistol for the platoon sarge. Swap a few AC over to missle launchers to give a few more blasts? The astropath would only affect your one vendetta as it doesn't work on allies of convience so it's probably not that useful. I actually have found from personal testing that I often don't find the HB's on the vendetta that useful as in general I'm generally shooting at armor or unless I find a pure horde list though I can see the benefit in forcing glances on AV10 and 11 fliers. Also very cheap so it may be worth it. Just personally didn't have too much luck with them though your milage may vary. I also tend to take a fairly minimilistic approach to my units so it's more a style thing. Otherwise it's a very minor point.

As to your mobility issues, I've had similar problems with things but with foot guard, I've had some good experiences to really use the heck out of "Move Move Move" to get pretty far each turn with a small-ish platoon (possibly making them cheaper by taking away some upgrades) going for linebreaker if I had them up at standard deployment and start huffing it by turn 3 the latest.

Only downsides like I've already said is 1) reliance on cover and bodies so large blasts or long range templates will be your downfall though these are thankfully still not as readily seen thanks to MEQ still being so popular. 2) mobility can be countered a bit by what you did with your deep strikes and maybe consider alot of move move move orders. The key is to not over extend your deep strike units. As the rest of your firebase is kind of static, may want to deep strike a bit closer to get some fire support. A dedicated CC unit will likely chew through your offense if unsupported. The manticore is not that great of a support weapon as you may easily wipe out your own men with too many blast templates. Otherwise good list. A few tweaks here and there should see you doing well. Positioning(and to some extent how lucky you get with terrain and objective positioning /target priority/and know your weaknesses will be key to playing this list well.

Thanks for the well worded and very useful perspective. I'll take some of those ideas into perspective and thanks for clearing up the mobility issues I was perceiving. I didn't know if I should count on "Move Move Move" for mobility purposes.

 Godless-Mimicry wrote:
Final report from the tournament here. See the final game, some pictures, and the conclusion.

Coyote81 wrote:
But you really have to take in the range importance for henchmen, they really need to be as far from combat units as possible, so I pair the ranges together, and put the meltas in with the bolters because they are the ones that go into the stormraven and are the mostly ones to get in close for melta and rapid purposes.

Why are bolters and plasma best when their statics? They shoot the same if they moved or sat still. 1 shot at 24" and 2 at 12".

Sorry I'm still thinking of 5th edition. Still, it is better to keep it all Rapid Fire or all Assault, that way in all situations the unit works to its best potential. Of course easier option if you have no intention of assaulting is to give them all Bolters instead of Storm Bolters.

Even with no intention of asasulting, stormbolters are so much more effective, always gettign 2 shots at 24" for 3pts a model, especially when buffed by coteaz or jokaero. The only reason the other squad gets bolters is because they'll be in close range primarly, so i can save points. Bolters are really only better on squads that want to be in close range, like marines and such, otherwise, if you can take a storm bolter, it's still better then a bolter. I believe your reasoning is completely backwards of what it should be. Bolters are the assult option, stormbolters are the ranged option.

Bolters are the assault option? You can't assault if you fire them, so how the hell does that make sense? And sure a Storm Bolter is more expensive, but then you pay 3 times to cost for it, still won't kill much more with the sqaud, and make the squad more expensive than it needs to be, which defeats the purpose of Henchmen.

Excellent final game GM.

Might have to look into that battle chronicler for my next tournament results

Do you just do it off of memory? or do you take photos of the table?

 Godless-Mimicry wrote:
Bolters are the assault option? You can't assault if you fire them, so how the hell does that make sense? And sure a Storm Bolter is more expensive, but then you pay 3 times to cost for it, still won't kill much more with the sqaud, and make the squad more expensive than it needs to be, which defeats the purpose of Henchmen.

I have to agree here. Just put bolters on them and be done with it. I've been diggin' using acolytes to hang back and hold home objectives and shoot a quad gun while the infinitely more combat worthy strike squads and such can push forward and smash face. It used to erk my something fierce when 6-10 strikes are durdleing around in the backfield. Coteaz allowing troop goober acolytes is a nice way to play. If they get wiped out I just laugh at my opponent at how many resources they just wasted on less than 50 points.

P.S. Most of my opponents are close friends, I don't condone openly making a mokery of your opponent.

 daedalus-templarius wrote:
Excellent final game GM.

Might have to look into that battle chronicler for my next tournament results

Do you just do it off of memory? or do you take photos of the table?

If I took photos I wouldn't need maps would I?

 Godless-Mimicry wrote:

 daedalus-templarius wrote:
Excellent final game GM.

Might have to look into that battle chronicler for my next tournament results

Do you just do it off of memory? or do you take photos of the table?

If I took photos I wouldn't need maps would I?

Well, a lot of photos don't really do justice to what you can show with your maps either

 daedalus-templarius wrote:

 Godless-Mimicry wrote:

 daedalus-templarius wrote:
Excellent final game GM.

Might have to look into that battle chronicler for my next tournament results

Do you just do it off of memory? or do you take photos of the table?

If I took photos I wouldn't need maps would I?

Well, a lot of photos don't really do justice to what you can show with your maps either

You'd be surprised; just look at the BatReps of jy2 or ArbitorIan.

 Godless-Mimicry wrote:
Bolters are the assault option? You can't assault if you fire them, so how the hell does that make sense? And sure a Storm Bolter is more expensive, but then you pay 3 times to cost for it, still won't kill much more with the sqaud, and make the squad more expensive than it needs to be, which defeats the purpose of Henchmen.

Why take a 50pts unit of henchmen to hold oblectives if they can't even properly defend themselves. paying 20pts more makes them a much more versatile unit. You can still laugh, because it's only 70ps, but they can actually kill stuff with 20 S4 shots at 24".

So you honestly think the special weapons are a weaste of time, and 10man botler squads are a better option? if I do that wht am I going to do with 149pts I have to spare? (assuming 2x 10 stormbolters and 1x 10 botler, these are the models I would have options for)

150pts doesn't get you alot in GK, especially stuff to deal with terminators, since I just dropped a lot of my plasmaguns. I need some ideas to change my gameplan, I almost see your point, but I don't see a viable alternative.

Coyote81 wrote:Why take a 50pts unit of henchmen to hold oblectives if they can't even properly defend themselves. paying 20pts more makes them a much more versatile unit. You can still laugh, because it's only 70ps, but they can actually kill stuff with 20 S4 shots at 24".

So you honestly think the special weapons are a weaste of time, and 10man botler squads are a better option? if I do that wht am I going to do with 149pts I have to spare? (assuming 2x 10 stormbolters and 1x 10 botler, these are the models I would have options for)

Firstly, if they can't defend themselves, how do you attest that Storm Bolters allow them to do this? If they are sitting on an objective the Storm Bolters make little to no difference as if the enemy is coming at them they will easily get Bolters in range. And if you are going at the enemy then your Bolters are going to be in range quick also. The only situation otherwise is when they sit on an objective and the enemy comes nowhere near them, but at this point since their firepower is negligible at best and the enemy is ignoring them, it doesn't matter. Might as well save those points.

And where did I say special weapons were a waste of time? You are putting words in my mouth mate, which I don't appreciate. Storm Bolters are a waste of time, because you are investing extra points for a negligible effect. That's points inefficiency defined.

Have been screwed over a few times because of night fighting, particularly my psyrifleman, not being able to hit the far back targets, and the things I can hit getting there nice cover saves. Then they would be targetted and blown of the board in the opponents turn

Was thinking of adding necron allies, cryptek with a solar pulse, just to help get through that first turn so I can use the long range or the dreads to great effect.

I know this is completely un-fluffy, but it is for more the tournament rather than at home environment, thoughts?

Also would the stormlord lightning hit my own grey knights as they count as "enemy models"?

It's only unfluffy if you don't think up a reason for the temporary alliance. Personally I think a Ordo Xenos Inquisitor plus any alien allies to be very fluffy, as much as any other cross-species alliance.

tuiman wrote:
Have been screwed over a few times because of night fighting, particularly my psyrifleman, not being able to hit the far back targets, and the things I can hit getting there nice cover saves. Then they would be targetted and blown of the board in the opponents turn

Was thinking of adding necron allies, cryptek with a solar pulse, just to help get through that first turn so I can use the long range or the dreads to great effect.

I know this is completely un-fluffy, but it is for more the tournament rather than at home environment, thoughts?

Also would the stormlord lightning hit my own grey knights as they count as "enemy models"?

Unfortunately immotek will end up shooting your knights too so don't bother with him. You seem to have arrived at where I was a few weeks back in that it's finally hit home that our lovely AC dread has its limits.

In terms of addressing your other questions, give the DK with incinerator a try. with a teleporter, and the heavy incinerator that can hit targets with fancy cover saves like pesky elves or infantry behind aegis like they aren't there and gets decent range too.

A cryptek is definately an option and can be fairly good way to get what you need as long as the rest of what you get from the allies complements your list. Use the knights for counter attack, shooty base, and necrons for assault as well as fliers works well for me. I'd recommend considering some necron assault options for the list as well as you can then buy some time for your AC dread to possibly stay alive. D.lord + wraiths and a cryptec with solar pulse in a grot squad to camp an objective. Take a doomscythe and a nightscythe for the warrior squad who you don't have to ride in with the scythe. Very nice air power and will add some more fliers to your list for very competitive environments. Having these other heavy well known threats, you'll get to hopefully keep your dread around long enough to make a difference. I still recommend some flamers anyway for you though as the competitve meta in my local scene has really started to go alot more hordy with good cover saves for alot of units. Stealth/shrouding/going to ground AEGIS. Incinerators are really a must take just to get around those damn things.

this reminds me, I need to go re-write my necron allies section on the front page as I need to update a bunch of stuff. Either that or just get a bunch of rhinos and searchlights... IG mech has alot of built in searchlights as well and can help your cause if you feel more fluffy.

The biggest question for me when thinking about Necron allies is which HQ to take. It's between an Overlord in a barge to unlock crypteks (as mentioned, solar pulse would be handy) or a Destroyer Lord leading a squad of Wraiths. It's a tough choice.

If you are having trouble with Night Fighting, take more searchlights. I've never found an issue with Night Fighting (especially since most units will have a better save on their own anyway).

Given that most Marine vehicles have Searchlights standard(including Rhinos and Dreadnoughts) I would say you already have the searchlights.

 Grey Templar wrote:
Given that most Marine vehicles have Searchlights standard(including Rhinos and Dreadnoughts) I would say you already have the searchlights.

Except Grey Knights don't have them as standard.

 Godless-Mimicry wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:
Given that most Marine vehicles have Searchlights standard(including Rhinos and Dreadnoughts) I would say you already have the searchlights.

Except Grey Knights don't have them as standard.

Ooops, I appear to have been confused with Smoke Launchers

 Grey Templar wrote:
Given that most Marine vehicles have Searchlights standard(including Rhinos and Dreadnoughts) I would say you already have the searchlights.

you do have to pay 1 point for them on GK vehicles and dreads and even chimeras. IG get them for free. While not seeing the guy's list, I've personally had the problem of not being able to get a searchlight lit on things way in the back as I may not have a rhino in the right place or I fail to spot. Sounded like he was trying to take shots at things at max 48' range which can be kind of tough to spot even for a rhino moving up. I know of several people that now no longer run any transports too so that could also be problematic

sudojoe wrote:you do have to pay 1 point for them on GK vehicles and dreads and even chimeras. IG get them for free. While not seeing the guy's list, I've personally had the problem of not being able to get a searchlight lit on things way in the back as I may not have a rhino in the right place or I fail to spot.

That's 5th edition rules, that's not how Searchlights work anymore.