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Marker light rippling is a great idea, but without4-6 markerlights in one unit, your chances of getting enough to remove covers saves is very low. I for one don't believe the rippling effect really works, without wasting a lot of fire power on the same target.

That's why I think a good Tau army should spread out its markerlights. Don't just have them in 1 or 2 units....they can be wiped out too easily. For the Tau list that I am thinking of, I put my Commander and his 2 marker drones with a unit of marker drones (all for some BS5 goodness!). I also use a unit of pathfinders and put marker drones in my 2 units of suits. That's 4 (potentially 5 units of markerlights if my commander splits off and joins another unit). I'm even considering giving my broadsides markerlight instead of shield drones. This creates what Yakface describes as a Markerlight Rippling effect. It also adds redudancy to your markerlight sources.

I've had some good success with my dronelight commander as well but I also really like messing around with the iridium FnP commander. In one list, I went with a iridium bodyguard rush accompanied by a necron D.lord +wraithstar. It was basically 2 fairly deadly and generally survivable and extremely fast deathstars (well not that much of a deathstar as I didn't have too many bodies or upgrades on either group other than the needed ones but was still pretty hefty for points) Basically all of those guys rushing down with tau fusion blasters to handle transports/high AV targets and necrons to sweep them in assault (sometimes I'd want the tau command squad in as well with vectored jets but generally not bothered with the points but I always wanted to try).

Certainly not all comers but was very fun and fits in my backpack easier to trasport as it was so few models lol.

phew, finally got around to updating this thing. I wasn't even all done with testing Tau and now Eldar drops. Already have had several games vs the new Eldar and they are a tough match for us to beat if built and played right.

Just some initial thoughts:

Tons of AP2/rending really hurt.
The DK can punch a wraith knight to death pretty easily with str 10 force weapons but in general will walk away taking some 2 wounds on average
Mechdar is making me retink the heavy psycannon.
Volume of fire is pretty nutty with wave serpents and warwalkers with so much twin linking
Crusaders are very much one of my favorite henchmen now lol

The amount of bolters needed to take down a wraith guard unit is pretty crazy. 6 man wraith guard with D-scythes and in a fast wave serpent with shields up is really tough to stop without assaulting and then eating flamers.
Psycannons are still pretty effective against almost all Eldar units though surviving the return fire can be pretty tough

I'm just wondering how to make my marines with psycannons live long enough to use them now a days as between Tau Ion Accelerator AP2 pie plates and long distance Eldar shooting or heldrake flamers, I'm not surviving well at all and really making me give up the purifiers or paladins as an effective force.

 sudojoe wrote:
phew, finally got around to updating this thing. I wasn't even all done with testing Tau and now Eldar drops. Already have had several games vs the new Eldar and they are a tough match for us to beat if built and played right.

Just some initial thoughts:

Tons of AP2/rending really hurt.
The DK can punch a wraith knight to death pretty easily with str 10 force weapons but in general will walk away taking some 2 wounds on average
Mechdar is making me retink the heavy psycannon.
Volume of fire is pretty nutty with wave serpents and warwalkers with so much twin linking
Crusaders are very much one of my favorite henchmen now lol

The amount of bolters needed to take down a wraith guard unit is pretty crazy. 6 man wraith guard with D-scythes and in a fast wave serpent with shields up is really tough to stop without assaulting and then eating flamers.
Psycannons are still pretty effective against almost all Eldar units though surviving the return fire can be pretty tough

I'm just wondering how to make my marines with psycannons live long enough to use them now a days as between Tau Ion Accelerator AP2 pie plates and long distance Eldar shooting or heldrake flamers, I'm not surviving well at all and really making me give up the purifiers or paladins as an effective force.

Tell me about it. I've been on a 6-month hiatus, and come back to 3 new 'dexes in that time period. And I've been losing every single game I've played. Just as a request/suggestion, could you highlight the bits of the first post where you made the latest changes, like how GW does with their FAQs? Thanks!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, one thing:

(Can put a servoskull all the way in the enemy corner but still in their backfield and with pre-measuring, you just have to be 7' from a table edge and you'll be in good shape.)

As a heads' up that you cannot put a servoskull in the enemy's deployment zone.

If you happen to kill everything off a quad gun, the dreadnaught can actually take over the gun too.

It's been FAQed that vehicles cannot man gun emplacements anymore. :(

Hello people!! New player with GK three questions emerged from reading the tactica...

a) Isn't Mordrack a "character" (not an independent character I mean) so how can you join a librarian in his unit? If that's possible you can also join an independent character to Crow?? (yeah I know noob question)

b)In the thread I also red that "teleport hommer" isn't working with "the summoning" codex power..why?? In the codex clarifies that with summoning the unit arrives with the DS rules ..Is there something in the FAQs that says that hommer doesn't work with summoning? Cause I saw nothing like this..

c) except Librarian and Inqs can anyone (e.x grand -master ) chooses to acquire rulebook (e.x divination) psyckic powers?? In the FAQs says no but in forums I see a lot of people that claim you can ...Do I read something wrong maybe??

Sorry if this isn't the place to post my questions

Thanks in advance !!

 Spectral wrote:
Hello people!! New player with GK three questions emerged from reading the tactica...

a) Isn't Mordrack a "character" (not an independent character I mean) so how can you join a librarian in his unit? If that's possible you can also join an independent character to Crow?? (yeah I know noob question)

b)In the thread I also red that "teleport hommer" isn't working with "the summoning" codex power..why?? In the codex clarifies that with summoning the unit arrives with the DS rules ..Is there something in the FAQs that says that hommer doesn't work with summoning? Cause I saw nothing like this..

c) except Librarian and Inqs can anyone (e.x grand -master ) chooses to acquire rulebook (e.x divination) psyckic powers?? In the FAQs says no but in forums I see a lot of people that claim you can ...Do I read something wrong maybe??

Sorry if this isn't the place to post my questions

Thanks in advance !!

a. You can attach multiple characters to a unit.

b. Read the entry again. Teleport homer only works for deepstriking via teleport. The second last sentence of the second paragraph of the Teleport Homer entry on pg. 62 explicitly states that. The Summoning is not a teleport deepstrike.

c. FAQ trumps all.

Going to be starting at a 40k Escalation League this Saturday. I want to take Coteaz + Strike Knights but I don't have the models. I decided to play Draigowing instead and I still can't decide whether the Apothecary is worth it or not. What do you guys think?

 Red Comet wrote:
Going to be starting at a 40k Escalation League this Saturday. I want to take Coteaz + Strike Knights but I don't have the models. I decided to play Draigowing instead and I still can't decide whether the Apothecary is worth it or not. What do you guys think?

I'd also like to hear people's thoughts on loadout for a squad of 10. What do you arm them with in the current 6th edition competitive metagame?

 Enigwolf wrote:

 sudojoe wrote:
phew, finally got around to updating this thing. I wasn't even all done with testing Tau and now Eldar drops. Already have had several games vs the new Eldar and they are a tough match for us to beat if built and played right.

Just some initial thoughts:

Tons of AP2/rending really hurt.
The DK can punch a wraith knight to death pretty easily with str 10 force weapons but in general will walk away taking some 2 wounds on average
Mechdar is making me retink the heavy psycannon.
Volume of fire is pretty nutty with wave serpents and warwalkers with so much twin linking
Crusaders are very much one of my favorite henchmen now lol

The amount of bolters needed to take down a wraith guard unit is pretty crazy. 6 man wraith guard with D-scythes and in a fast wave serpent with shields up is really tough to stop without assaulting and then eating flamers.
Psycannons are still pretty effective against almost all Eldar units though surviving the return fire can be pretty tough

I'm just wondering how to make my marines with psycannons live long enough to use them now a days as between Tau Ion Accelerator AP2 pie plates and long distance Eldar shooting or heldrake flamers, I'm not surviving well at all and really making me give up the purifiers or paladins as an effective force.

Tell me about it. I've been on a 6-month hiatus, and come back to 3 new 'dexes in that time period. And I've been losing every single game I've played. Just as a request/suggestion, could you highlight the bits of the first post where you made the latest changes, like how GW does with their FAQs? Thanks!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, one thing:

(Can put a servoskull all the way in the enemy corner but still in their backfield and with pre-measuring, you just have to be 7' from a table edge and you'll be in good shape.)

As a heads' up that you cannot put a servoskull in the enemy's deployment zone.

If you happen to kill everything off a quad gun, the dreadnaught can actually take over the gun too.

It's been FAQed that vehicles cannot man gun emplacements anymore. :(

Thanks for the pick ups! I'll go fix them now =)

Incidentially I just added the GW thing and use violet for updated changes

 Lurker wrote:

 Red Comet wrote:
Going to be starting at a 40k Escalation League this Saturday. I want to take Coteaz + Strike Knights but I don't have the models. I decided to play Draigowing instead and I still can't decide whether the Apothecary is worth it or not. What do you guys think?

I'd also like to hear people's thoughts on loadout for a squad of 10. What do you arm them with in the current 6th edition competitive metagame?

The Apothecary isn't worth it unless your meta is filled with plasma equivalent shooting out the wazoo. The load out for 10 would be 4 psycannons, 1 banner, 6 halberd, 4 hammers. This is how I play them. GM with a psycannon and a inquisitor with a psycannon is also just for the lulz if you want to be a real killy deathstar. 24 psycannon shoots makes the unit kinda rediculous

 Lurker wrote:

 Red Comet wrote:
Going to be starting at a 40k Escalation League this Saturday. I want to take Coteaz + Strike Knights but I don't have the models. I decided to play Draigowing instead and I still can't decide whether the Apothecary is worth it or not. What do you guys think?

I'd also like to hear people's thoughts on loadout for a squad of 10. What do you arm them with in the current 6th edition competitive metagame?

I personally use that death star as a suicide squad but that's just me. I've mostly just had them charge forward and everyone almost always tries to kill them all. Before the new Eldar and Tau, this was kind of hard to do for most lists but it's gotten pretty tough for these guys to survive ever since after the daemons codex changed things a lot and now it's gotten pretty silly. I've lost the whole thing after turn 2 against one double riptide tau list for example.

They are there to soak firepower while coteaz sits back on objectivs with solodins and cheap henchmen to cap objectives. Hence I just make them as killy as possible while avoiding too many upgrades so they will still be a threat and get people's attention. Scout up ahead now and get lit up like crazy. Despite saying all of that, I still take an apothecary just because I tend to attract a metric ton of small arms fire from most any enemy I come across and while there are certainly a lot of lances/railguns/meltas/fire lances you will see, Having them in people's face/deployment zone and not all dead is what I think JY2 would call positional dominance as I'm fixing to keep the fire off my actual objective holding units.

Sudojoe, what's your thoughts on this? Since LRs are no longer a viable option of delivering a Crusader/DCA or Paladin deathstar, having them inside a Stormraven instead kitted out similarly (the flying LR Crusader way). I was looking at doing this and having a Librarian attached with the usual powers and The Summoning. Dreadknight sitting in the back of my field with Psycannon and Incinerator, and once the Librarian gets to their backfield, do a Summoning on the DK (Less accurate and less utility than a Teleport Pack, but far cheaper and unexpected).

Now, you have a deathstar, a DK, a scary Librarian with Warp Rift, and a Stormraven in their lines. Instant backfield saturation.

It's got merit meaning that if you can get off a good multi-charge or so in the enemy backfield but don't really expect your SR to survive too well there after.

Basically it's going to be around a 400 point investment (possibly 600 with the DK) to effect this. There needs to have some crazy expensive stuff that you can wipe out (we're talking about taking out probably at least 3-5 units for this to be worth it and the enemy really needs to be somewhat clustered.) but it can work. Just need to make sure that you are being distracted by like 3-4 cheap transports like rhinos or this would be somewhat wasted.

I can see this being effective but need to have some sacrifices though can totally be upset if you enemy is playing a ton of wimpy guys. (Also, too many interceptors can make this kind of bad but it's not too often I get my SR blown up on the turn it enters (though you need to realistically survive a round of anti-air shooting to get into position)) I know I'm sounding kind of negative and it's probably because the last 3 games I tried any sort of GK assault build including my old DCA+crusader build got totally trounced by the New Tau/Eldar and it wasn't even remotely close.

One other problem I see with this trick is that it's a bit too complicated and thus more prone to problems.
The summoning can only be done on the librarian's beginning movement phase which means you get the SR, fly it in near where it needs to go on turn 2, drop off guys on turn 3, then turn 4 you can summon and the DK can assault on turn 5.

If you just jump out via shadow skies, you are facing a lot of potential dangerous terrain checks and things like DCA don't do that well with it. (lastly, and this part I don't know about, you can now use the teleport homer from the death from the skies addition but that thing requires the model with the beacon to already have been on the board for this to benefit your units). You also don't have permission to disembark in the shooting phase so your 36' move isn't always going to get you to where you might want to be especially if you are playing hammer and anvil deployment.

Well where to begin? it's about 11:38pm where I am but, I just watched the Falling Skys season premiere so I'm awake at the moment, I like it alot and am certainly looking to the new season. Back
on topic, I haven't played with my Grey Knights as much as I've wanted to.. but I've gotten an idea on how it is to play almost army but eldar and SoB "Poor SoB ", although I've seen how they
play.

I'm going to let my thoughts flow on this one and take my time on this.

Will I still play grey knights do the massive relapse we've just taken?
Yes, I love playing grey knights they are fun, I love their fluff, they fit my playstyle since I've began playing them, and I'm certainly not going to be putting them away.

Are they GT winning?
Uhhhh No. I'm not trying to be "the downer" here but truth be told, it's just not gonna happen Why? > There are many ways in which people come upon how they want to list build, personally I've

taken this approach
- Do I have Anti Horde?
-Do I have Anti-Flyer?
-Do I have Anti-Tank?
-Do I have AP?
- Do I have Anti-Death Star Capabilities?
-Do I have Psychic Protection?
-Do I have Anti MC weaponry or abilities?
-Do I have acess to Transportation/ Am I reasonably mobile?
- Can I deal with LR fire power?

These are the questions I ask myself in making any build, and are generally a great set of questions at which to build any army. Now however... some new categories have derived, which were always
categories which were not so much a problem.

How do I deal with units that are now impervious?
How do I deal with Massed AP2?
How do I deal with for no better way to say it, Tau Over watch and interceptor fire?
How do I deal with "peek a boo units"?

Truly these are the new questions that have derived from the many new codex realeases and to state it simply, you really can't. Unfortunately, it's going to be hard to be able to deal with any of
these because it's one thing to destroy a flyer it's another thing to stop an army loaded with nothing but Ap2 and 3 weaponry. There's not much you can do against an army that shoots at you and
then goes behind cover and negates your ability to fire back. You can't try and bother yourself with the flying Lord(s) of Tzeentch turning your amy into smoldering ash. Really what I'm trying to say is
there is just way to many categories to try and deal with to be Take All Comers.
Heldrakes are going to burn your strikes down to the ground. I kid you not 2 heldrakes took out 3/4 my army in a tournament over the weekend, the rest of his army did practically nothing.

Tau... LoLz.. LoLz. unless your have the greatest day of breaking the laws of averages rolling 2+ and 5++ invulnerable saves you are not going to beat a really well built and generaled Tau list.
They will kill you from long range, they will kill you before you get into assault, they will kill on deepstrike. enough said

You can't create an optimal list that can deal with everything and so now really it's a matter of if you were to have an allergy what would you want it to be and, that is what it is going to be for the
rest of this edition should you choose to play grey knights at least pure grey knights anyways.

I had a teir order a few months ago, I can't believe how much it would change in that short of time
but if one wanted to know My best and honest opinion as of this moment now.. would be

Necs/ Tau/ Nids/ Chaos/Daemons/Tau sit in the competitive tree of being GT winners.
SoB/ IG/ SW/ DA/ GK/ SM Orks + X like armies fill the rest of the tree

I can understand I've probably come out really negative of us and it's not to put us down/ rant or anything, I'm just stating the facts before we begin the clean slate to playing in 6e

First Things First It's time to break the feeling of being a strong teired army, because we aren't anymore we are lower middle teired. The matches are going to be tougher, it's going to take more
strategy than straight out point and fire. If anything it's going to take alot of dennying to win our games and it's going to take new playstyles other than pali star and purifier spam.

Now we can begin the open discussion of thoughts to competitiveness beginning with the core because games are won with scoring units. we have the choice between strikes and henchmen, terminators aren't going to be too good anymore as there is just too much AP2
3, or just too much shooting period and will just deal to many wounds and statistics will take hold.

Grey Knight Strike Squads- still a solid choice but don't expect them to be the gods of troops anymore xD as, the new thing is... they need rhinos now. Why? they just need protection. The ap2 fire,
the scare of heldrake flamers. They need something to be able to allow them a turn of free harrassment as opposed to losing a full squad per turn. They are going to want to be run in full 10 man
squads most of the time. 5 man gk strike squads are like 5 man units of kabalite warriors; caught in the open with their pants down they are just going to die and give quick kill points, make your
opponent have to work for those kill points/ give them less. the best setup on them is the same as it always has been with 2 psycannons and psybolts. But seriously you need a rhino or chimera
transport or else they'll be shot to ribbons. You'd be much happier losing a rhino a nd a grey knight which is the same in points as 3 grey knights as oppossed to 6 in one volley. Like I said before
make your opponent work to have to kill your guys off.

Henchmen- Run them in chimeras however the loadouts as to the squads, there are so many really it comes down to personal preference but, just note that when their ride pops they are probably
going to die afterwards as their armor sucks and it is for that reason I'd somewhat advise not taking them because it's not like rhinos and chimeras are durable units.

Next up

The HQ

Coteaz- is probably going to still be the bestfriend of this edition he's just such a great character not going to go into depth on why everyone knows why he is a great character

Grand Master- I expect to see much less of him. Grand Strategy really isn't going to be of great use anymore and this is this reason why. Paladins while still somewhat a solid choice aren't going to win
tournaments and they are going to be eaten up by AP2 weaponry and massed shooting.

Librarian- this is who I expect to be seeing alot of this edition. LV 3 with a wardstave all kitted out trying to get re-rollable 2+ saves. simply put he's going to offer alot of survivability to our units at
least from all the small arms not AP2 fire. He gives out alot of buffs and can single handedly take on the anti- death star role by himself short of taking on a unit of ap2 powerfisting terminators.

Inquisitor- deffinitely still a good and popular choice I will expect to see him or coteaz most probalby if an inquisitor is taken.

Crowe- just leave him at home xD

Brotherhood Champion- still not probably worth taking as he only has one wound and now that everyone has deny the witch his special attack can be negated making him less pleasant to play

Inquisitor Kamarazov- iI have a feeling we will actually be seeing this guy now. The simple fact that their are so many gunlines now I can't imagine not seeing him in unison with a calidus assassin free
barrage on a gunline/ or justicar Thawn/ Dreadknight> in fact im very much considering taking him myself. nothing like 3 str 6 ap 4 templates on a Tau gunline template on target or 3 pie plates

Next uP Elites

Purifiers- oh how far you've fallen =(. They need to be run in squads of ten now and as a dedicated deathstar like unit because running them in razorbacks just really isn't going to get the job done
anymore; they are such a threat factor they will most certainly be singled out and shot up and with all the ap2 and massed shooting these guys aren't going to last long enough a libby attached would
be the best option in making them survivable as a small deathstar but other than that they are probably not gonna be showing up as much as they used to.

Paladins- with all the shooting and AP2 and unkillable monstrous creatures now/ they are still a solid choice but certainly nowhere amazing. They can easily be held up simply by a lord of change
challenging them in an assault phase and there is 700+ points tied up for the rest of the match. so I don't expect them to be to popular in Grand tournaments as its way to likely they will be shot up
by ap2 weaponry or held up by a lord of tzeentch with grimoire /2++ re rollable.

techmarine- I wouldn't be suprised to see this guy more actually as repairing rhinos is going to be a key measure in survivability plus their conversion banner isn't all that bad so jea.

Callidus Assassin - desperate times call for desperate measure, and I'm sure were going to see him in unison with kamarazovs orbital bombardment ability this edition.

Vindicare Assassin- deffinitely going to be seeing him as there are so many characters that need their invuls stripped such as the lord of tzeentch. Finally blowing up landraiders and killing warlocks and

such never hurt.

Fast Attack
Interceptors- Probably one of the only units not really hurt except by that of the increase in ap2. They are going to be vital to winning games and I wont be suprised to be seeing grey knights run
with 2 or more so of these squads as the primary which would mean a GM will probably be present.

SR- still overpriced for what it brings in my opinion and really they need to be run in doubles.

Heavy Support
DreadKnought- is going to be a seriously strong unit coming up now with all the damn psychic powers that are so powerful and that aegis protection for everyone is really going to help with psychic
protection probably going to be seeing at least on of these in every list

Dread Knight- Still strong but his survivability went down due to all the ap2 and massed shooting.

Allies
here's thing about allies/ for tournament play I think most gk players are probably going to go this route and try and ally with SW/ TAU/ or Eldar now that bringing a farseer won't f your army.
Rune Preist offer very good psychic protection and really do a number on MC with Jaws of the World. so deffinitely going to be a popular ally. Tau are Tau, your'e deffinitely going to see some kind of

allies with them for strength in interceptor shooting so as to be able to combat fliers as well as their strength in removing cover/ AP2 shooting. Eldar, you are deffinitely going to see them as allies
for their ap2 shooting as well as their crazy quick units now.

All in All I was talking with a group of guys at the tournament and we were all agreeing the game is deffinetly going that of the way of being an allied army game and I can't help but agree with them

as simply put to be competitive we are going to have to take something from someonelses codex to be able to deal with the new changes brought on by the rules of the new codexes.

If I were to sum it up and what will probably be scene for the rest of 6e

Coteaz/ Kamarazov/ GM/ Libby
Dreads/ NDK's
Vindicare/ Callidus Assassin
strikes with rhinos 2x 10
interceptors 2x 10

some kind of allied force

If you have any thoughts or disagreeances on anything feel free to post about it

***** Been thinking about list building and I believe that 30 models of grey knights are the max number you should have at the 1500 point level. In addition to that as strikes and terminators aren't viable troop choices as they are too slow and wont reach combat and wont put out enough shooting henchmen are most probably the best choice. As for the Grey knights I believe 10man Interceptor squad is must take as they are the single unit that wasn't totally screwed over after that either another interceptor squad or a squad of purifiers in a rhino or LR will probably be the best choice however if you take the purifiers and LR you won't be able to take a 3rd grey knight squad.

Coteaz with Henchmen/ servitors with heavy bolters or multi meltas in Chimeras or razorbacks are starting to sound good for the best viable troop choice options they give twin-linked 36" range shooting which means they have anti-flyer capabilities plus it gives the henchmen something to hide out in until it's time to go out and cap objectives plus they can stay back and make up their points with their shooting. A full squad of servitors with heavy bolters in a chimera gives 12 str 5 and 3 str 6 shots for 85 points very cheap simple and affective.

Funny thing is that I agree with you on the overall GK heading. I'm still not sold on Inquisitor K + the callidus but it's a minor difference. I've been doing all sorts of allies with my GK often brining things other armies lack like Necrons and needing deep strike protection for example and want to use warp quake (or Tau I suppose and just interceptor everything to death) or coteaz's I've been expecting you as well as steal initiative reroll.

Having a DK can still be handy as the allied choice, I'd almost always take him since I won't have any if many strike squads at all.

SR - -- I'm leaning more towards the regular SM version more and more lately since our missles are not nearly as effective since not every list has psykers but almost everything has something worth shooting an anti-tank missle at.

So far my allies build has almost always had coteaz and one squad of very shooty henchmen (like 2 PC servitors + 2 monkies and 3 bolter guys to suck wounds or a crusader) usually camped somewhere firing off the aegis guns/interceptor las cannon

Maybe one small strike squad for warp quake, or if I don't need it, take a counter assault option with crusaders and DCA with power axe+sword

one DK to be a big pain/distraction/flamer (for Eldar troops other than jetbikes and mostly for pathfinders/marker drones)
And possibly interceptor squad to accomplish the same thing as the DK or a strom raven as anti-air if what I'm allying with has almost none or very little.

It's been my most successful so far at taking just about the best things out of our codex that isn't completely screwed over by all the new things like you mentioned (how to deal with pop up units) I'll leave the really heavy lifting up to the necron destroyer lord + wraiths and nightscythes to handle. Or guard the riptide's back from getting shot.

Incidentially, paladins are not characters anymore. You can't hold all of them up with a challenge as no one can accept anymore.

Sad to say it but GK just aren't competitive even with psycannons and I have a feeling that's why most of the hard core generals have moved away from them. I hardly see anyone play them anymore. ( though mine are quite pretty and I still love the things I hardly ever get to play the shiny in competitive lists and it's been mostly up to my henchmen to pick up the slack.

Heck I even use draigo/paladins totally different now. I don't expect them to live past turn 3 most times (and use them as a titantic bullet catcher) and I generally hope that my opponent was bad and don't go after my scoring units (solo'dins or henchmen) that I'm attempting to win the game with as well as the game needs to end turn 5 lololol.

In many ways, it almost feels like back in 4th edition or early 5th before the new codex. The main strats to play GK are back to the days of hiding in a castle corner or suicidal terminators and just focus down a bit of your enemy at a time and hope you have enough LOS to hide under lol.

*Flash back to really old strat video I saw like 3 yrs ago - here's a flash from the past to Fritz 40k commenting on the 4th edition GK terminators* - amazingly enough, this is sound strat for the current state of GK, we're back to 4th =)

What do you guys think of Grey Knights with Tau Allies? I've been considering this for a while, but I don't know if its even worth giving it a shot.

Red Comet
What do you guys think of Grey Knights with Tau Allies? I've been considering this for a while, but I don't know if its even worth giving it a shot.

Well here's the thing you can really only run your core one of 2 ways.. 5 man terminators with a psycannon and a mix of weapons or 10 grey knights in squads of 10 with psycannons and psybolts

if you take terminators you dont really need tau because the main reason for taking tau would be to deal with flyers as they are the best interceptor army in the game right now at deal with units coming from reserves- and heldrakes murder us. If you want to go the route of still taking strike squads their is really no other alternative but to take tau and what you would take almost certainly with pretty much no exceptions would be
Allied Contingent
469pts.
Commander 171
2 Missile Pods
Velocity Tracker
Early warning
1 marker drone
1 shield drone
Vector Retro Jets
neuroweb
puretide engram chip

2x XV8 Crisis BodyGuards 186
Missile Pods
Velocity Tracker
Early Warning
1 marker light drone
1 sheield drone
neuroweb
puretide engram chip 15

12 Fire Warriors 112
2 marker drones

The Hq squad will undoubtedly take care of heldrakes coming in on the first turn or at least screw them over so much as to the point they probably won't be able to use their flamers on the turn they come in. However as you can easily see its a pretty nifty price but if your ok with that you should be pretty much sound. you do get the cheap fire warrior squad for camping on your back objective which is good and the crisis squad will still put out some hurting with their shooting and become your primary tank hunter unit as they can shoot at whatever they want and probably take it out via tank hunter ability from the puretide chip

The other option is to go 2 5 man terminator squads and drop them late game on objectives(make sure to place all your objectives behind terrain and out of line of sight to keep as much stuff from shooting you as possible) this way is much cheaper as you don't have to spend 500 points on taking Tau for a strong anti-air base.

If you do take terminators though it will allow you access to interceptors however which are going to be the major unit for grey knights in 6e. they are our fastest unit and cover the field quickly. They will die every game but the purpose of them will be to flank opponents sides and take on half your opponents by getting into Assault ASAP. Simply put our guys just can't take the shooting anymore and locking in combat and sweeping our opponents on their turn will be the only way in which we will be able to survive the massed shooting our opponents are able to bring out however, the hope is by the end you can seriously cripple your opponents that when you objective campers come towards end game they will be largely uharrassed by all your opponents shooting.
your going to want to run

1o Interceptors 310
psycannon > Vehicles
Incinerator> Tau/IG/ Orks/Eldar/ Cultist
psybolts

1o Interceprtos 310
psycannon > Vehicles
Incinerator> Tau/IG/ Orks/Eldar/ Cultist
psybolts

as to be able to make the best use of them. You want to switch out a psycannon now because you really want to be in your opponents face/ in assault now so the one psycannon is there so as to be able to have something at which to be able to deal with tanks but primarily your focus will be in assault while the flamers deal with all the infantry behind aegis defense lines so as to be able to cause more casualties and make your opponent have to take more moral checks.

I'd imagine that 2x NDK with HI will be popular as well either route SS or terminators, as they are still a very strong unit and can really back up both affectively
in the SS list with Tau they will provide a strong fire magnet and offensive force to holding your opponents in combat denying them the ability to claim objectives while in the terminator list
they will be able to join in the jump jump jump unit playstyle you will have to play in getting in close combat and bashing in your opponents/ Flaming tons of non MEQ as there probably will be alot this edition is how these bad boys are going to be how these boyz are going to make their points back and I'd imagine that they will probably do so with flying colors.

Finally SW drop pod allies with RP or eldar with jetbikes to make last minute dashes for objectives towards the end game will also be popular

I like the upcoming challenge but more than anything picking your fights/ striking flanks/ hiding/ and last turn dashes towards objectives for denial and captures will be how win in 6e now
Hope you could take something from this =)

****Was pondering 5 terminators and then I forgot that they can still be vector striked to death by heldrakes so they are going to need a chimera
2x Land Raider as much a I hate to state it with 10 man strike squads or 5 man terminator squads are looking more and more real probable to play as well.
2x Storm Raven as well is probably going to be of serious probability as well

Chimeras and Rhinos are only going to save you one turn at least with a Landraider or Storm Raven you'll have a somewhat resilient unit/ at least more resilient than any other alternative I can think of at the moment
Another thing to note it is truly mandatory to bring a quad gun and aegis defense line unless you want to submit yourself to an autoloss to a heldrake list

So I was playing around with an allied Tau list, thoughts on a DK with a Riptide?

 Dezstiny wrote:

Red Comet
What do you guys think of Grey Knights with Tau Allies? I've been considering this for a while, but I don't know if its even worth giving it a shot.

Well here's the thing you can really only run your core one of 2 ways.. 5 man terminators with a psycannon and a mix of weapons or 10 grey knights in squads of 10 with psycannons and psybolts

if you take terminators you dont really need tau because the main reason for taking tau would be to deal with flyers as they are the best interceptor army in the game right now at deal with units coming from reserves- and heldrakes murder us. If you want to go the route of still taking strike squads their is really no other alternative but to take tau and what you would take almost certainly with pretty much no exceptions would be
Allied Contingent
469pts.
Commander 171
2 Missile Pods
Velocity Tracker
Early warning
1 marker drone
1 shield drone
Vector Retro Jets
neuroweb
puretide engram chip

2x XV8 Crisis BodyGuards 186
Missile Pods
Velocity Tracker
Early Warning
1 marker light drone
1 sheield drone
neuroweb
puretide engram chip 15

12 Fire Warriors 112
2 marker drones

The Hq squad will undoubtedly take care of heldrakes coming in on the first turn or at least screw them over so much as to the point they probably won't be able to use their flamers on the turn they come in. However as you can easily see its a pretty nifty price but if your ok with that you should be pretty much sound. you do get the cheap fire warrior squad for camping on your back objective which is good and the crisis squad will still put out some hurting with their shooting and become your primary tank hunter unit as they can shoot at whatever they want and probably take it out via tank hunter ability from the puretide chip

The other option is to go 2 5 man terminator squads and drop them late game on objectives(make sure to place all your objectives behind terrain and out of line of sight to keep as much stuff from shooting you as possible) this way is much cheaper as you don't have to spend 500 points on taking Tau for a strong anti-air base.

If you do take terminators though it will allow you access to interceptors however which are going to be the major unit for grey knights in 6e. they are our fastest unit and cover the field quickly. They will die every game but the purpose of them will be to flank opponents sides and take on half your opponents by getting into Assault ASAP. Simply put our guys just can't take the shooting anymore and locking in combat and sweeping our opponents on their turn will be the only way in which we will be able to survive the massed shooting our opponents are able to bring out however, the hope is by the end you can seriously cripple your opponents that when you objective campers come towards end game they will be largely uharrassed by all your opponents shooting.
your going to want to run

1o Interceptors 310
psycannon > Vehicles
Incinerator> Tau/IG/ Orks/Eldar/ Cultist
psybolts

1o Interceprtos 310
psycannon > Vehicles
Incinerator> Tau/IG/ Orks/Eldar/ Cultist
psybolts

as to be able to make the best use of them. You want to switch out a psycannon now because you really want to be in your opponents face/ in assault now so the one psycannon is there so as to be able to have something at which to be able to deal with tanks but primarily your focus will be in assault while the flamers deal with all the infantry behind aegis defense lines so as to be able to cause more casualties and make your opponent have to take more moral checks.

I'd imagine that 2x NDK with HI will be popular as well either route SS or terminators, as they are still a very strong unit and can really back up both affectively
in the SS list with Tau they will provide a strong fire magnet and offensive force to holding your opponents in combat denying them the ability to claim objectives while in the terminator list
they will be able to join in the jump jump jump unit playstyle you will have to play in getting in close combat and bashing in your opponents/ Flaming tons of non MEQ as there probably will be alot this edition is how these bad boys are going to be how these boyz are going to make their points back and I'd imagine that they will probably do so with flying colors.

Finally SW drop pod allies with RP or eldar with jetbikes to make last minute dashes for objectives towards the end game will also be popular

I like the upcoming challenge but more than anything picking your fights/ striking flanks/ hiding/ and last turn dashes towards objectives for denial and captures will be how win in 6e now
Hope you could take something from this =)

****Was pondering 5 terminators and then I forgot that they can still be vector striked to death by heldrakes so they are going to need a chimera
2x Land Raider as much a I hate to state it with 10 man strike squads or 5 man terminator squads are looking more and more real probable to play as well.
2x Storm Raven as well is probably going to be of serious probability as well

Chimeras and Rhinos are only going to save you one turn at least with a Landraider or Storm Raven you'll have a somewhat resilient unit/ at least more resilient than any other alternative I can think of at the moment
Another thing to note it is truly mandatory to bring a quad gun and aegis defense line unless you want to submit yourself to an autoloss to a heldrake list

The allied list is actually illegal and they don't do much since they have no weapons.

I was actually thinking of something along this line for my allied Tau.

HQ:
Commander with Iridium Armor, Multi Spectrum Sensor Suite

Elites:
Riptide with Early Warning Override, 2 Shield Drones, Ion upgrade, and the plasma gun

Troops:
6 Fire Warriors

Heavy Support:
3 Broadsides with Heavy Rail Rifle and Velocity Tracker

Aegis Defense Line with Quad Gun

The rest of the GK part is Strike Squads in Rhinos since Strike Squads are actually pretty mobile and deadly in a Rhino. The Rhinos also help stop Heldrakes destroying a whole squad in one turn. I only took 6 Fire Warriors because Fire Warriors are awful and I'll keep them in reserve to backfield score. The Commander has no guns and gives Ignores Cover to the Broadsides and the Commander also fires the Quad Gun on the defense line. Riptide is there to make drop podding armies cry as well as anything that deep strikes near me.

I feel like this list shores up the problem of skyfire for GK as well as giving us long range fire power which GK sorely lack.

The prior list was only illegal just becaues of the Puretide Engram. I still suggest taking a Coteaz for that list and sticking him on the Quad Gun instead. At least that way you can shoot at everything coming in, rather than just one. Your Riptide can only Intercept once, so a massed droppod army would still be pretty scary.

Rail sides are also no longer that good for anti-air. You're effectively spending an excessive amount of points for what amounts to 3 twinlinked Str 8 shots (albeit with Skyfire) compared to the 4 on a Psyfleman, I'd rather take missilesides to be honest.

My personal Tau attachment has been something to the effect of:

Commander + 2 marker drones with a squad of marker drones (6 drones total usually)
2 weapons on the commander (usually missles to stay at range)+ iridium (to tank heldrake)+ target lock + drone controller (maybe the puretide engram)

Riptide with ion cannon, skyfire and interceptor
Broadsides with high yield missle pods and interceptor.
Kroot squad (almost 100% of the time outflanking to go after a cleverly placed objective somewhere - more often than not I find the 10 points somewhere to give them snipers as my lists tend to lack sniper or poisoned weapons)


Totals 713 without the puretide . If I have extra points I take a crisis bodyguard team with interceptor and missles or plasma based on what I'm short on (usually plasma or missles if I'm more expecting interceptor)

Really haven't taken the bodyguard team too often though I keep wanting to. Most often if I have points left over, I'll get a mix of more marker drones or missle drones for the broadsides as this is a pretty hefty detatchment already. Most people would have pushed for 200 points cheaper overall build.

This is my most basic Tau attachment that I've had the most success with all comers and I just toss it into just about anything.

In fact in my full Tau list, I basically just duplicate all of the above and throw in some elder for psychic buffs and a squad of jetbikes to score with fire prism now cept I generally have the crisis suits instead of bodyguards with an extra elites slot and start replacing kroot with fire warriors.

 Enigwolf wrote:
The prior list was only illegal just becaues of the Puretide Engram. I still suggest taking a Coteaz for that list and sticking him on the Quad Gun instead. At least that way you can shoot at everything coming in, rather than just one. Your Riptide can only Intercept once, so a massed droppod army would still be pretty scary.

Rail sides are also no longer that good for anti-air. You're effectively spending an excessive amount of points for what amounts to 3 twinlinked Str 8 shots (albeit with Skyfire) compared to the 4 on a Psyfleman, I'd rather take missilesides to be honest.

His Tau commander also took too many items. 2x mpods, ewo, velocity tracker and vectored thurster are all from the standard wargear section. He is only allowed 4, not 5.

I was pretty wasted after work today and decided to mess around with a truly silly list just out of total boredom. Short version - didn't work but was very fun!

1500 list

Draigo (hey why not, I was inspired by that youtube video)
An inquisitor with no upgrades (also from that video lol) With one servo skull (who happens also be the warlord hiding in the storm raven (also inspired by the video...)

4 solo paladins (all with hammers) just because...
2 DK's with incinerators and teleports (cause I couldn't fit on psycannons too)
10 interceptors with hammer + psycannon and incinerator (wanted to try stuff mentioned earlier in the thread)
storm raven with las cannon + multi-melta (mostly cause I didn't want to have zero skyfire)


I randomly rolled against an opposing list of prebuilt 1500 lists against myself... and I got my wraith/airforce crons >.<

Suffice it to say I didn't do very well but I had a blast doing basically nothing till turn 3 after all my solo-dins dropped close to objectives (scouring). Whole game probably took like 45 minutes. Basically nothing really for the wraiths to assault cause the only things deployed were fast jump/shunt troops and one solodin running around hiding behind a wall and the rest were running around dodging things. The necrons flew around with night scythes but I made a lot of 2+ saves and 3+ on the interceptors.

Basically by turn 4, the necrons beams down next to objectives as well and the wraithlord finally gets to the far corner to kill one paladin. The storm raven got shot down by turn 5 but the inquisitor and draigo attached to eachother dropped out near a servo skull close to an objective.

If the game ended by turn 5, Gk would have had 1 objective and linebreaker and first blood for the SR shot down one night scythe before dying and necrons also 1 objective and linebreaker and the storm raven kill. Almost everything was contested and both sides had a 2 point uncontested objective. (Would have tied)

Too bad the game went on to turn 7 actually and I finally failed enough saves for 2 of the solodins to die (and 2 were eaten by the wraithstar). The DK's killed off annhiliation barges but didn't want to mess with D.lord MSS. Also flamed off 2 warrior squads. I didn't combat squad the interceptors so GK only had a 3 point objective at the end and the necrons had a 3 and a 1. Draigo and inquisitor was contesting the 4 point objective but couldn't cap it. (and no necrons were there anyway)

Really silly game but was very refreshing to play a super fast GK build. I might have to experiment more with this thing.

So are there any all gk builds left? i can't see even a new codex update we get a points decrease... The Heavy slots seem to be one baby carrier and two psydreads which is around 500+ pts right there and doesn't seem to be something we can be without.

Coteaz and his henchman are what i consider ridiculously cheap and I do subscribe to the SS/Axe Crusader and PC servitor. But the troops section is just killing me. 2 full PAGK squads puts you at 500+ and if you run transports (basically to provide cover and if not destroyed help get to an objective) that's 600+. So, not playing 2k pt double FC (which wouldn't help anyway) we play the 1500 - 1850 pt range.

With what I described thus far, that puts it at around 1350pts or so. I've debated the double Paladin to contest obj but they aren't going to last long without support. Bare bones, that's about 110pts and a decent addition if you can get cover.

And if we need an emplacement, the Aegis with Quad Gun would round this out. The only other thing I could think of is a toss up of single assassin, but that competes for the Elite slots as well........

Just not a lot of models out there compared to what I can create for the same points cost of my Eldar.

basically GK is falling back down into the fluff department. You just can't beat the numbers of units/shots coming in (mind you it's almost all quality + quantity of fire we're seeing so far from Tau/Eldar/even chaos daemons)

Almost all of the newest codex releases have been big beat sticks against elite armies (so much AP1-2 and AP3 flamers and now eldar even has alot of AP2 flamers from troop slots lol) which has seen basically GK drop off in my area down to just like 1-2 people. I kind of saw this coming a while back and predicted to us at mid tier but I'm revising us down a peg. We're a smidge potentially better than regular SM and better than BA/BT and sisters. Probably tied about with good DA builds. SM is going to be updated soon so with the way things are going, we'll be kind of back to where we were in 4th edition or beginning of 5th before the "new" codex. (i.e. more fluff and awesome looking models) and much more likely as allies for warpquake, coteaz to steal the initiative/deny a corner, and a DK to force punch big scary things like WK's and riptides and of course to flame things. Gk's lack a proper air defense and has way too few bodies for the new meta we're seeing on the net. Unless you go interceptors or teleport DK's, our foot troops are in general too slow to get into assault properly.

Pure GK isn't really strong anymore in the new meta (we got like 3 people that just started Eldar for example and about 6 riptides have popped up and heck, all the good battle reports about the revamped nids have someone starting those too. about 3 new CSM players as well as 2 daemon players not to mention the 5 necron players that never stopped lol)

Use GK as allies (kind of like what we were back in 4th) and you'll be much more satisfied with the results (also fits fluff believe it or not most times)

Mind you this is basically talking about pure gk build not counting henchmen which actually are still pretty decent though the mech wall isn't quite what it used to be. I'm quite interested in seeming if someone can do well with say a purifier build vs things like eldar and or vs tau. I'be beaten myself a lot outside of crazy dice where I miss with metric ton of bs5 marker lights or I keep perils when as the new eldar. Of course it maybe also that I play way too much gk and know all of my own tricks lol.

Can you combat squad and then chose to DS the 2nd part of the squad? I keep trying to squeeze blood out of a turnip probably, but looking at taking 10 member Strike Squad to get the 2 Psycannons. Buy a rhino. Combat Squad the 2 PsyC into the rhinos for Fire Point use and protection (for what it's worth) and then deepstrike the other 5 with the Justicar onto the board?

At 1850, I can fit at least 4 possible 5 units this way if I forgo some other items...

 Enigwolf wrote:
The prior list was only illegal just becaues of the Puretide Engram. I still suggest taking a Coteaz for that list and sticking him on the Quad Gun instead. At least that way you can shoot at everything coming in, rather than just one. Your Riptide can only Intercept once, so a massed droppod army would still be pretty scary.

Rail sides are also no longer that good for anti-air. You're effectively spending an excessive amount of points for what amounts to 3 twinlinked Str 8 shots (albeit with Skyfire) compared to the 4 on a Psyfleman, I'd rather take missilesides to be honest.

They'll be trying their hardest to keep away from the Riptide because they won't be wanting to lose anyone. Also they'll be keeping away from Coteaz this means I can still force them into positions where I want to them to land. Its not about being able to intercept once. Its about affecting their decisions so they play into my hands.

Psyfleman is ok. Broadsides are still cheaper and yeah the Missile sides are pretty awesome. I prefer the Rail Rifle though because its Ap2. It's better against a wide variety of targets.

Sorry Comet didn't realize I went a little happy with the upgrades I was trying to come up with something have the most interceptor fire and not taking up half ur points.

I'm gonna try one more list and see how I do before just playing my gk because I enjoy them rather than being competitive
HQ
Inquisitor 66
psycher
servo skull
power armor

Elites
Henchmen 130
3 Servitors
3 plasma cannons
2 Jokakero Monkey

Troops
10 Grey Knights 280
2 psycannons
psybolts
rhino

10 Grey Knights 280
2 psycannons
psybolts
rhino

Fast Attack
10 Interceptors 320
2 Incinerators
psybolts

Heavy Support
Nemesis DreadKnight 160
HI

Nemesis DreadKnight 160
HI

Aegis Defense Line 100
Quad Gun

1499pts

I'll let you all know how it goes tommorrow

Sad days ahead

 Uriels_Flame wrote:
Can you combat squad and then chose to DS the 2nd part of the squad? I keep trying to squeeze blood out of a turnip probably, but looking at taking 10 member Strike Squad to get the 2 Psycannons. Buy a rhino. Combat Squad the 2 PsyC into the rhinos for Fire Point use and protection (for what it's worth) and then deepstrike the other 5 with the Justicar onto the board?

At 1850, I can fit at least 4 possible 5 units this way if I forgo some other items...

yes, this is allowed as you chose to combat squad before deployment.

Heck, you can even have them in the same rhino if you want. The combat squad just has to disembark separately and can't get back on the same rhino at the same time as the other half of the squad but you can divvy them up with whichever loadout you want (2 psycannons in one group and none in the other or what have you) and you can still chose to deep strike the half if you'd like.

It's one way to have more squads and buying psybolt for everyone cheaper. (though you won't have as many hammer justicars with the combat squad set up)

Didn't they FAQ Combat Squads and Transports to always be able to share the same transport as their other squad? Or am I imagining this?