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As a guy who had Chaos as his first army...

What I'm hoping to see:
-Fluff that does Chaos and CSM justice. Continue the trend in the 6th Ed Rulebook of Chaos being the "Greatest Threat" and the Black Crusades as a series of calculated blows to gradually weaken the Imperium
-A detailed to semi-detailed fluff exploration of all of the Traitor Legions
-At least 3 Daemon Engines
-Flyer
-Warsmith & Dark Apostles
-New special characters, preferably a Daemon Prince, an Iron Warrior, and a Word Bearer.
-CSM able to stand up to Vanilla Marines
-Full access to Daemons (already more or less the case with the Allies option fortunately)
-Some sort of reference that Imperial Guard allied with Chaos makes them Traitor Guard, including pics of Traitor Guard models (similar to the old Codex Eye of Terror)
-More Lost and the Damned options, including Rogue Psykers and Mutants.

What I'm hoping I don't see
-Vanilla Marines kicking Chaos ass at every turn (leave that for their own Codex)
-Emphasis on Renegade Space Marines, not Chaos. More Abaddon and less Huron.
-Chaos gets the Tyranid treatment. No matter how recent their codex is, they always suck on the table.
-No new special characters, the same band of guys we've been seeing since 2nd Edition.
-Making CSM loyalist Marines in black armor.

What I wish I would see but I know there's no chance of it
-Something about what Mortarion, Perturabo, and Magnus have been up to.

Gameplay/rules have always been secondary to me to the lore/hobby, so I'm probably going to be more pleased with this then most assuming GW doesn't pull anymore Mortarions vs. Draigo's.

 Lucre wrote:
So is there a unit anyone here is excited or particularly hopeful about?

I for one look forward to the combination of Marks and Icons so I may see the following.

A nice and happy unit of T5, FNP Terminators with Typhus in the middle.

I don't care if it looks to be ridiculously expensive. Proper Plague Terminators should be. But that bubble will be ridiculously hard to kill and should make a very nice 'terror' unit.

I'm just excited to finally be getting the general update. I'll get very excited for the new models once I see them (like I always do no matter what army comes out).

I fully intend to use regular Chaos Marines as troops. I'm painting up a couple basic bolter guys as filler for the squads right now, and as we get closer to the Codex release I'll start painting Icons and special weapons.

Then, when new models come out, I'll use those as the cult marines, havocs, chosen, etc. I'm hoping that'll give the army a good heirarchy look, with older models being basic troops and more detailed models being other options.

Must... Hear... About.. Brotherhood of Sorcerers....

If we don't get it, who will?

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:
I'm just hoping that the Sonic Blasters my noise marines still have to purchase have been dropped down to 3 points rather than 5 points. At least having 16 point Noise Marines means I can make it a mainstay troop thats better than Space wolves.

This for starters.

I also like the mark/icon idea and hope to truly field cult Noise Marines. I am currently thinking of ways to manipulate the Cultists to have a more Slaaneshi feel to them, maybe combine them with wracks?

I'm hoping the Tzeentch stuff is competative, as I'd really love to make a Thousand Sons themed army, with Daemon Allies.

I also hope the rest of the range continues with the standard of the new Chosen, and Hellbrute.

Even with both the Mark and the Icon, generic units will probably not equal the Cults. Slaaneshy termies might get +1 I and Fear or whatever, but not sonic weapons. Likewise Nurgle termies and poison and blight grenades. Thousand Sons will, as always, suffer the most, unable to represent Rubrics or Sorcerers outside HQ and the one Cult unit.

Looks like good times ahead for Chaos Undecided, though.

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Even with both the Mark and the Icon, generic units will probably not equal the Cults. Slaaneshy termies might get +1 I and Fear or whatever, but not sonic weapons. Likewise Nurgle termies and poison and blight grenades. Thousand Sons will, as always, suffer the most, unable to represent Rubrics or Sorcerers outside HQ and the one Cult unit.

Looks like good times ahead for Chaos Undecided, though.

:(

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Even with both the Mark and the Icon, generic units will probably not equal the Cults. Slaaneshy termies might get +1 I and Fear or whatever, but not sonic weapons. Likewise Nurgle termies and poison and blight grenades. Thousand Sons will, as always, suffer the most, unable to represent Rubrics or Sorcerers outside HQ and the one Cult unit.

Looks like good times ahead for Chaos Undecided, though.

Been my issue since 3.5. Tzeentch and Slaanesh just don't have the same level of detail paid to them. And with stupid things like +1T/FNP or +1A/Rage covering most of what nurgle and khorne are about, why can't any effort ever be made to make Tzeentch and Slaanesh a realistic option?

And then the rumors that Thousand Sons costs the same amount of points, have slow and purposeful/relentless but don't have any reason to have these rules because they don't have any heavy weapons anyway. I mean what's the deal? You can't honestly think soulblaze, 4++, and AP3 warrants +10 points a model can you?

If the rumors are true: Typhus lead, Zombie cultist horde with Plaguemarines filling in the points. Totally for fun horde army of CSM.
I can't wait for this, it's my fun apoc formation anyway.

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Even with both the Mark and the Icon, generic units will probably not equal the Cults. Slaaneshy termies might get +1 I and Fear or whatever, but not sonic weapons. Likewise Nurgle termies and poison and blight grenades. Thousand Sons will, as always, suffer the most, unable to represent Rubrics or Sorcerers outside HQ and the one Cult unit.

Looks like good times ahead for Chaos Undecided, though.

Mark of Slaanesh Gives the Hell Brute "Sonic Scream" for Assault and Defensive Grenades. So I wouldn't be surprised if that is what MoS will also do to Termies. If Icon of Slaanesh is Still +1I you got your self a pretty scary Assault Termy Squad.

Just speculation anyway.

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Looks like good times ahead for Chaos Undecided, though.

The best Chaos flavor!

Lockark wrote:

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Even with both the Mark and the Icon, generic units will probably not equal the Cults. Slaaneshy termies might get +1 I and Fear or whatever, but not sonic weapons. Likewise Nurgle termies and poison and blight grenades. Thousand Sons will, as always, suffer the most, unable to represent Rubrics or Sorcerers outside HQ and the one Cult unit.

Looks like good times ahead for Chaos Undecided, though.

Mark of Slaanesh Gives the Hell Brute "Sonic Scream" for Assault and Defensive Grenades. So I wouldn't be surprised if that is what MoS will also do to Termies. If Icon of Slaanesh is Still +1I you got your self a pretty scary Assault Termy Squad.

Just speculation anyway.

Good times for mixed armies too. Depending on what the Marks and Icons do exactly, but if FNP is a mark, god help anything in the way of Chaos Termies.

Nvs wrote:

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Even with both the Mark and the Icon, generic units will probably not equal the Cults. Slaaneshy termies might get +1 I and Fear or whatever, but not sonic weapons. Likewise Nurgle termies and poison and blight grenades. Thousand Sons will, as always, suffer the most, unable to represent Rubrics or Sorcerers outside HQ and the one Cult unit.

Looks like good times ahead for Chaos Undecided, though.

Been my issue since 3.5. Tzeentch and Slaanesh just don't have the same level of detail paid to them. And with stupid things like +1T/FNP or +1A/Rage covering most of what nurgle and khorne are about, why can't any effort ever be made to make Tzeentch and Slaanesh a realistic option?

And then the rumors that Thousand Sons costs the same amount of points, have slow and purposeful/relentless but don't have any reason to have these rules because they don't have any heavy weapons anyway. I mean what's the deal? You can't honestly think soulblaze, 4++, and AP3 warrants +10 points a model can you?

Relentless means you can assault after firing rapid fire, and it kinda does now that AP3 and 4++ are actually a bit more worth it in 6th compared to 5th's 4++ everywhere!

 Brother SRM wrote:

 unmercifulconker wrote:
If next month's WD comes out on the 22nd, when do you think we would start seeing leaks? Earlier than usual?

About a week early, like we did this month.

Goooood, goooooooood

I am just seeing the info as less than 30 days away, stops from me going insane. Also Planetside 2 beta tomorrow so I guess I can wait

ZebioLizard2 wrote:

Nvs wrote:
Been my issue since 3.5. Tzeentch and Slaanesh just don't have the same level of detail paid to them. And with stupid things like +1T/FNP or +1A/Rage covering most of what nurgle and khorne are about, why can't any effort ever be made to make Tzeentch and Slaanesh a realistic option?

And then the rumors that Thousand Sons costs the same amount of points, have slow and purposeful/relentless but don't have any reason to have these rules because they don't have any heavy weapons anyway. I mean what's the deal? You can't honestly think soulblaze, 4++, and AP3 warrants +10 points a model can you?

Relentless means you can assault after firing rapid fire, and it kinda does now that AP3 and 4++ are actually a bit more worth it in 6th compared to 5th's 4++ everywhere!

Why are you assaulting with Thousand Sons?

 kenzosan wrote:

ZebioLizard2 wrote:

Nvs wrote:
Been my issue since 3.5. Tzeentch and Slaanesh just don't have the same level of detail paid to them. And with stupid things like +1T/FNP or +1A/Rage covering most of what nurgle and khorne are about, why can't any effort ever be made to make Tzeentch and Slaanesh a realistic option?

And then the rumors that Thousand Sons costs the same amount of points, have slow and purposeful/relentless but don't have any reason to have these rules because they don't have any heavy weapons anyway. I mean what's the deal? You can't honestly think soulblaze, 4++, and AP3 warrants +10 points a model can you?

Relentless means you can assault after firing rapid fire, and it kinda does now that AP3 and 4++ are actually a bit more worth it in 6th compared to 5th's 4++ everywhere!

Why are you assaulting with Thousand Sons?

Because the Sorcerer that had gained Fiery Form thirsts for the blood of his enemies!

Plus it helps if the enemy has furious charge or something that you don't want to charge you with and you want to deny them the charge effect. Or if you've used something akin to the blinding effect.

Thousand Sons can break units if you can pull off a rapid fire and charge, now that open terrain is no longer difficult for them.

If you don't try to get into assault at least a couple times with Thousand Sons, you're probably playing them wrong.

You can't win by just sitting back and plinking. You will lose. Ask any of my regular opponents about that.

but this is not the place, maybe we should do a Tsons tactica.

Well, at least Tzeentch has Daemon allies that meaningfully contribute to your tactical options unlike Khorne and Nurgle. I guess there's that.

I just want to hold the book in my hands.

I am more excited than when I saw my first A-10 strike.

Addiction is a terrible thing.

Honestly, I'm really hoping we get a new CSM kit. By the looks of those chosen, GW has a whole new idea of what CSM should look like, and I would be pretty bummed if we got stuck with the kit we have now for another four or five years.

Same with terminators. I think it's fairly safe to say that CSM have the worst terminator Kit in the game, except possibly the tactical terminators, which no one uses anyway

ZebioLizard2 wrote:Because the Sorcerer that had gained Fiery Form thirsts for the blood of his enemies!

Plus it helps if the enemy has furious charge or something that you don't want to charge you with and you want to deny them the charge effect. Or if you've used something akin to the blinding effect.

Brometheus wrote:Thousand Sons can break units if you can pull off a rapid fire and charge, now that open terrain is no longer difficult for them.

If you don't try to get into assault at least a couple times with Thousand Sons, you're probably playing them wrong.

You can't win by just sitting back and plinking. You will lose. Ask any of my regular opponents about that.

but this is not the place, maybe we should do a Tsons tactica.

It must just be who I play primarily then, CC infantry armies and tanks. Denying the charge is good and all but I could just as easily keep them at 24 in and blast the hell out of them instead of getting beaten down in CC.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

Captain Fantastic wrote:
Honestly, I'm really hoping we get a new CSM kit. By the looks of those chosen, GW has a whole new idea of what CSM should look like, and I would be pretty bummed if we got stuck with the kit we have now for another four or five years.

Same with terminators. I think it's fairly safe to say that CSM have the worst terminator Kit in the game, except possibly the tactical terminators, which no one uses anyway

Termi kit is most likely getting an update as with the current kit you have to take a combi and reaper, as well as since power weapons changed, the axe and maul set up is horrible as there's no point difference (which I'm sure there will be.

If you can stay 24" away, my friend, I congratulate you because I have a lot to learn. I find myself getting very close every game, whether I want to or not ^_^

Ahhh if the termies get a cooler Reaper... that'd be fun.

 Harriticus wrote:
What I'm hoping I don't see
-Vanilla Marines kicking Chaos ass at every turn (leave that for their own Codex)
-Emphasis on Renegade Space Marines, not Chaos. More Abaddon and less Huron.
-Chaos gets the Tyranid treatment. No matter how recent their codex is, they always suck on the table.
-No new special characters, the same band of guys we've been seeing since 2nd Edition.
-Making CSM loyalist Marines in black armor.

Don't worry. I'm sure they'll be loyalist marines in black armor with ATSKNF, combat tactics and combat squads replaced with random tables.

Nvs wrote:And then the rumors that Thousand Sons costs the same amount of points, have slow and purposeful/relentless but don't have any reason to have these rules because they don't have any heavy weapons anyway. I mean what's the deal? You can't honestly think soulblaze, 4++, and AP3 warrants +10 points a model can you?

Any unit with soulblaze, 4++ and AP3 has plenty going for it.

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Well, at least Tzeentch has Daemon allies that meaningfully contribute to your tactical options unlike Khorne and Nurgle. I guess there's that.

Um....does Epidemius count in that regard?

Well considering standard power weapons costs 10 points i think Ksons are reasonably priced.

Think about it we get a 4++ save always ... and we have power swords but in bolter form.

If you complain about the lack of Heavy Weapons or Special weapons, we do get them in the form of our sorcerer.

What other unit can get a LOS on their Special Weapon models

I would love to see 20Pt Ksons though ... pray to the chaos every day for it. But i dont question why we pay so much our cult unit is awesome. Going to throw in Fate Weaver and they will never die. Back them up with 2 defilers and their battle cannons. DS the Horrors w/ changeling onto an objective and just wait for them fliers to kill me.

Nvs wrote:

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Even with both the Mark and the Icon, generic units will probably not equal the Cults. Slaaneshy termies might get +1 I and Fear or whatever, but not sonic weapons. Likewise Nurgle termies and poison and blight grenades. Thousand Sons will, as always, suffer the most, unable to represent Rubrics or Sorcerers outside HQ and the one Cult unit.

Looks like good times ahead for Chaos Undecided, though.

Been my issue since 3.5. Tzeentch and Slaanesh just don't have the same level of detail paid to them. And with stupid things like +1T/FNP or +1A/Rage covering most of what nurgle and khorne are about, why can't any effort ever be made to make Tzeentch and Slaanesh a realistic option?

And then the rumors that Thousand Sons costs the same amount of points, have slow and purposeful/relentless but don't have any reason to have these rules because they don't have any heavy weapons anyway. I mean what's the deal? You can't honestly think soulblaze, 4++, and AP3 warrants +10 points a model can you?

Look, I don't want to split hairs here, but I'm really kind of tired of hearing that Nurgle and Khorne are "covered" whereas Slaanesh and Tzeentch aren't. Saying +1T/FNP is what Nurgle is about is akin to saying +1 inv. save/Ap 3 weapons is what Tzeentch is about. Nurgle is lacking blight grenades and poisoned weapons just as much as Tzeentch is lacking extra psychic fun. That said, game wise I'll take FNP over blight grenades or poison.

I have a lot of faith in Phil Kelly to put out a solid codex. I've really liked all the books he wrote for 5th and I think he just "gets" the armies he's written. I don't want the next Grey Knights dex, I just want a book that works how a chaos army should, and I'm sure he will pull that off. That said, don't expect him to spell out the exact way to make a legion army, just like he didn't spell out how to make Ork clans. The tools will be there, but it's up to you to build around that theme. Honestly I prefer that to having GW hold my hand and tell me how a legion force should look like.

I have a lot of faith in Phil Kelly to put out a solid codex. I've really liked all the books he wrote for 5th and I think he just "gets" the armies he's written.

4th Edition Eldar was pretty much GK in skimmer form, and 5th space wolves was GK before GK came out. DE was just right though, even with some of the fluff being to out there (Vect, by god)

That said, don't expect him to spell out the exact way to make a legion army, just like he didn't spell out how to make Ork clans. The tools will be there, but it's up to you to build around that theme.

I have a friend who's still very much bitter about losing his all infiltrating Blood Axe army to the point who gave up 40k when he lost it, the problem with this is that you'll get only part of what you can build with said theme. You'll get sorcerers and thousand son troops, but that's it really, you won't have sorcerer led terminators, no burning magics all over, no various ways of causing blight and decay with a nurgle army aside from just having a higher T and FNP.

Face it, it's fine if they don't spell out the way to make an army, but there's no way they are giving us the tools we need to truly make a themed god army or even a basic legion army. Raptors and jump troops? Sure, but don't expect either of them to be troops so you'll need other things.

I have a feeling that Phil has a sort of "crossed arms and smirking look" whenever someone mentions the CSM book.

I bet it will be great.

(Remember this post when it comes out, and feel free to PM me with fail memes)

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:


I have a friend who's still very much bitter about losing his all infiltrating Blood Axe army to the point who gave up 40k when he lost it, the problem with this is that you'll get only part of what you can build with said theme. You'll get sorcerers and thousand son troops, but that's it really, you won't have sorcerer led terminators, no burning magics all over, no various ways of causing blight and decay with a nurgle army aside from just having a higher T and FNP.

Face it, it's fine if they don't spell out the way to make an army, but there's no way they are giving us the tools we need to truly make a themed god army or even a basic legion army. Raptors and jump troops? Sure, but don't expect either of them to be troops so you'll need other things.

I was on a break from the game during a good portion of 4th, so I can't really comment on Eldar, other than really, really enjoying reading the codex. But yes, his codexes have been powerful, but even as they get older they age very well and play how I feel those armies should play.


As for your friend's army, that sucks his list became invalid, it really does. I think 40k went had an oversimplification period under Alessio Cavatore that is now being redone to bring more flavor back to armies. Some people like it, some don't but I think lists like that are more likely moving forward. The fact that there are rumors of exodite Eldar and Allies supplements is a good indication quirky or out of the box lists might be possible again. Hell, I've always been drawn to those armies myself!

I think the problem with people saying they aren't being given the tools they need to make a legion list is that they are always pointing back to the 3.5 lists, which were very strict in outlining the legions. Yes, 1k Sons may be a general exception since you can't have a sorcerer leading terminators or what have you. But Night Lords aren't only raptors, so I don't buy "raptors as troops" as a valid complaint of not having the tools for that legion and just about every other legion has a lot of ways to represent their forces if the new rumors are true. But really there's not much point arguing about hypotheticals , because we simply don't know what all we will be getting in the new book.