Eldar rumours (Preorder pics added to first post)

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**ceorron**

Kroothawk wrote:

Prototype of new Jetbike shown GD 2007 (6 years ago):

I'd be good with this. 3 to a box some options would be good.

**Agamemnon2**

Since the sculpt appears complete there, it has to be a simple cost-profit calculation that led to it being scrapped. It simply doesn't pay to redo them.

**Powerguy**

Agamemnon2 wrote:
Since the sculpt appears complete there, it has to be a simple cost-profit calculation that led to it being scrapped. It simply doesn't pay to redo them.

Which is pretty hard to take when GW are the ones writing the rules for them, and constantly get accused of writing good rules for the units which get updated/added. Jetbikes were already the best scoring unit Eldar had in 6th, with a new kit and some more options people could have used them as the core of their army (i.e more than 2 units of 3) and that would sell well.

**unmercifulconker**

I will feel bad directing all my firepower on to the knight and potentially destroying it first turn. As he takes it off the table, I will look at the price tag of the model and then give the guy an awkward smile.

**Morachi**

Pisses me off a tad that they took the Vyper stock and decided to cram it in place of the War Walker - probably to offload all the excess stock from poor sales (that and Hornets kinda cornered that market, and were cheaper here in Aus).

Let's hope the new Dex' has some decent rules for them (like adding them in as an attack bike option for Jetbikes) rather than keeping them on the shelves collecting dust.

**Jacob29**

Based Powerguy!!

Agamemnon2 wrote:
Since the sculpt appears complete there, it has to be a simple cost-profit calculation that led to it being scrapped. It simply doesn't pay to redo them.

I'd have thought the jetbikes bring the most profit seeing how ridiculously priced they are for what you get.

**Fayric**

Agamemnon2 wrote:
Since the sculpt appears complete there, it has to be a simple cost-profit calculation that led to it being scrapped. It simply doesn't pay to redo them.

Someone said GW focus on new codex entries for first waves to avoid freebooting resinbit providers, and such problems as they had with the wolf cav.
Sounds likely to me, and fit nicely with the latest couple of releases.
Warriors of chaos recently got two waves of models within 6 months, perhaps we will see more small waves of models in the near future. Dont give up on the jetbikes just yet.

Edit: and to be fair, if that is all they do to the jetbikes, tilt the rider slightly forward, I would not spend my money on it. Perhaps if I got a clever way to mount a shur cannon on it in the box
ut it looks pretty much the same to me.

**Redemption**

Powerguy wrote:
It can take up to 2 Suncannons, which are S6 AP2 Heavy 3 Small Blast

So it could get to shoot 6 S6 AP2 Blasts? Nifty, if a bit time consuming with all the scatter dice. I guess you could roll multiple scatter dice at the same time?

**Bolognesus**

Morachi wrote:
Pisses me off a tad that they took the Vyper stock and decided to cram it in place of the War Walker - probably to offload all the excess stock from poor sales (that and Hornets kinda cornered that market, and were cheaper here in Aus).

Let's hope the new Dex' has some decent rules for them (like adding them in as an attack bike option for Jetbikes) rather than keeping them on the shelves collecting dust.

A vehicle (and really, that model does NOT fit a touhness value in any way) in a unit of bikes?
That will be a "fun" and rather nightmare-inducing unit ruleswise...

**Morachi**

Bolognesus wrote:
Morachi wrote:
Pisses me off a tad that they took the Vyper stock and decided to cram it in place of the War Walker - probably to offload all the excess stock from poor sales (that and Hornets kinda cornered that market, and were cheaper here in Aus).

Let's hope the new Dex' has some decent rules for them (like adding them in as an attack bike option for Jetbikes) rather than keeping them on the shelves collecting dust.

A vehicle (and really, that model does NOT fit a touhness value in any way) in a unit of bikes?
That will be a "fun" and rather nightmare-inducing unit ruleswise...

It doesn't have to be PART of the unit, just included as part of a FOC choice, so the unit isn't pegged into Fast Attack, taking up a valuable slot when it can be akin to a support platform for Jetbikes (in an assisting fashion).

**PredaKhaine**

Bolognesus wrote:
Morachi wrote:
Pisses me off a tad that they took the Vyper stock and decided to cram it in place of the War Walker - probably to offload all the excess stock from poor sales (that and Hornets kinda cornered that market, and were cheaper here in Aus).

Let's hope the new Dex' has some decent rules for them (like adding them in as an attack bike option for Jetbikes) rather than keeping them on the shelves collecting dust.

A vehicle (and really, that model does NOT fit a touhness value in any way) in a unit of bikes?
That will be a "fun" and rather nightmare-inducing unit ruleswise...

Don't the ravenwing already have that? - they get a landspeeder in a bike squadron iirc

**unmercifulconker**

What is the point of Wraithlords now though, why would you even fund more production of a smaller chasis when your race is dieing? Geese, no wonder the Eldar are fading away, poor funding decisions.

Edit: Its not like they need to save eldar dollars, they wont get to use it in the future!

**Morachi**

unmercifulconker wrote:
What is the point of Wraithlords now though, why would you even fund more production of a smaller chasis when your race is dieing? Geese, no wonder the Eldar are fading away, poor funding decisions.

Edit: Its not like they need to save eldar dollars, they wont get to use it in the future!

With GW making your decisions, who needs enemies?

**Ledabot**

Powerguy wrote:
Got a sneak peek of the White Dwarf today, managed to dig out some actual rules from the battle report, preview teasers and a couple of tiny pages from the codex that were printed in the WD that I managed to read. Not many stats on offer but still a reasonable chunk of rules. I'm probably mis-remembering the names of some of these rules but here is what I picked up in no particular order:

- From what I saw all the non Wraith infantry have the run/shoot shoot/run ability (the rule was called Battle something). Avengers definitely do (from the report) and Rangers definitely do (from tiny printed profile in the WD) as well. Not sure if its just for Shuriken weapons (Rangers do have Pistols I guess).
- It looks likes all Eldar have the 'Ancient Foe' special rule, no idea what this does but I suspect its something like Hatred Daemons of Slaneesh (don't think it was Necron related as the report was against Crons) since all Eldar appear to have it (including the Wraith units).
- There are 14 Eldar specific psychic powers from 2 different charts, Runes of Battle and Runes of Fate. However it looks like several of the powers are 2 in 1, i.e they have a buff mode and a debuff mode, so there are actually HEAPS of powers. I.e the Primaris for Battle is Conceal/Reveal (as a single card/roll etc), Conceal gives you Shrouded and Reveal removes Shrouded from an enemy. The 1 on the Battle Chart was Destructor/Renew(?), Destructor being the same as before with Soul Blaze added and Renew allowing you to restore a wound to a friendy model within range (18" I think). Primaris for Runes of Fate was Guide, which is now 24" range but is otherwise the exact same as before. Very surprising to see this as aside from the range it is far worse than the Divination Primaris (although I guess you could take both and effectively Guide two units). The 1 on the Fate Chart was a terrible Focuses Witchfire power. Fortune and Doom are still options (the Farseer in the report had them) and appear to have the same effects.
- The Avatar has Fleet. Also one of the psychic powers increases your movement speed/charge range somehow
- The Wraithknight is insanely huge, it is literally twice the height of a Wraithlord, and the sword option it can take is basically the size of a Wraithlord as well. It can take up to 2 Suncannons, which are S6 AP2 Heavy 3 Small Blast or up to 2 Wraithlances(?) which are presumably the heavy anti tank option. Sword replaces one of the big guns I think (they are arm mounted like the Titans). This is in addition to the two shoulder mounted heavy weapons (I saw Scatters and Starcannons, so presumably the normal range of heavy weapons are available)
- Wraithguard and Wraithblades look good, think scaled down Wraithlords. They looked a bit bigger than the old ones, but I think it was partly just the added range of motion in the poses on 40mm bases (similar to the old 25mm base Terminators vs the newer 40mm base ones, they are bigger but the better poses help as well). Wraithguard can now get either Wraithcannons (which from the fluff descriptions seemed to still be single shot and very powerful) or D Scythes which were described as a multi shot weapon but it could still Pen vehicles on a 6. Wraithblades are only 1A base (sadly) but looked like they could go either 2 CCW (no idea on stats of their weapons, but they appeared to have sword/axe options) or 1 CCW + Shield gen arm.
- Wraithguard are definitely S5 T6, Lord is almost certainly not T6 (a full unit of Destroyers shot one in the report and did nothing, which suggests T8 or some other equivalent buff). No idea on the stats for the Knight.
- It looks like Aspect Warriors have the same base profile, include Exarches with Ld9
- Reapers have Slow and Purposeful
- Rangers have WS4. They also have a character (not sure if he is upgrade or HQ) who has a 120" range Sniper Rifle.
- One of the fliers has 2 Heavy D Scythes on the wings and a psychic based main gun. The other has 2 Bright Lances and a Pulse Laser.
- Saw stats for what looked like special weapons for characters, might have been for Special Characters as well since the 120" range sniper was in there. One weapon was +2S, AP- Melee, Rending, Fleshbane, Instant Death. Another was +1S AP3, Soul Blaze, and if you killed anything with Soul Blaze then every unit within 6" of that unit would become effected by Soul Blaze as well. There was also a one use only piece of wargear, which you could use when the character died. On a 2+ you place a S4 AP3 template over the character, hitting both friend and foe, but if you cause at least 1 wound then the character stands back up with 1 wound. Last one I saw was an item which gave the user Fearless, Shrouded, Stealth and re-roll cover saves but they lose the IC rule, which gives people a way to make a Solitare (the name was something to do with the Laughing God).

Thanks for the rumors, but are you sure that the ancient enemys wasn't crons. It sounds right since there both well, old, and they seem to match up army's against there main foes in the battle report.

**Bolognesus**

PredaKhaine wrote:
Bolognesus wrote:
Morachi wrote:
Pisses me off a tad that they took the Vyper stock and decided to cram it in place of the War Walker - probably to offload all the excess stock from poor sales (that and Hornets kinda cornered that market, and were cheaper here in Aus).

Let's hope the new Dex' has some decent rules for them (like adding them in as an attack bike option for Jetbikes) rather than keeping them on the shelves collecting dust.

A vehicle (and really, that model does NOT fit a touhness value in any way) in a unit of bikes?
That will be a "fun" and rather nightmare-inducing unit ruleswise...

Don't the ravenwing already have that? - they get a landspeeder in a bike squadron iirc

Hmm, fair 'nuff. Would prefer 1-3 separate vypers as one choice or something like that, but I can see how it'd work.

**unmercifulconker**

Haha, all said and done though I seriously cant wait to see this beast in the WD and on the table, perhaps though in a new age, I could own such art.

**Redemption**

unmercifulconker wrote:
What is the point of Wraithlords now though, why would you even fund more production of a smaller chasis when your race is dieing? Geese, no wonder the Eldar are fading away, poor funding decisions.

Edit: Its not like they need to save eldar dollars, they wont get to use it in the future!

The Wraithknight requiring a twin - one dead, one living - probably throws a spanner in the works of wanting to field them en masse.

**unmercifulconker**

Redemption wrote:
unmercifulconker wrote:
What is the point of Wraithlords now though, why would you even fund more production of a smaller chasis when your race is dieing? Geese, no wonder the Eldar are fading away, poor funding decisions.

Edit: Its not like they need to save eldar dollars, they wont get to use it in the future!

The Wraithknight requiring a twin - one dead, one living - probably throws a spanner in the works of wanting to field them en masse.

Ah, well I guess thats were the Imperium can help.

**FreddieTau6**

That white dwarf leak of rules and stuff has got me all wobbly in the legs...

**lordofthegophers**

Powerguy wrote:
Got a sneak peek of the White Dwarf today, managed to dig out some actual rules from the battle report, preview teasers and a couple of tiny pages from the codex that were printed in the WD that I managed to read. Not many stats on offer but still a reasonable chunk of rules. I'm probably mis-remembering the names of some of these rules but here is what I picked up in no particular order:

- From what I saw all the non Wraith infantry have the run/shoot shoot/run ability (the rule was called Battle something). Avengers definitely do (from the report) and Rangers definitely do (from tiny printed profile in the WD) as well. Not sure if its just for Shuriken weapons (Rangers do have Pistols I guess).
- It looks likes all Eldar have the 'Ancient Foe' special rule, no idea what this does but I suspect its something like Hatred Daemons of Slaneesh (don't think it was Necron related as the report was against Crons) since all Eldar appear to have it (including the Wraith units).
- There are 14 Eldar specific psychic powers from 2 different charts, Runes of Battle and Runes of Fate. However it looks like several of the powers are 2 in 1, i.e they have a buff mode and a debuff mode, so there are actually HEAPS of powers. I.e the Primaris for Battle is Conceal/Reveal (as a single card/roll etc), Conceal gives you Shrouded and Reveal removes Shrouded from an enemy. The 1 on the Battle Chart was Destructor/Renew(?), Destructor being the same as before with Soul Blaze added and Renew allowing you to restore a wound to a friendy model within range (18" I think). Primaris for Runes of Fate was Guide, which is now 24" range but is otherwise the exact same as before. Very surprising to see this as aside from the range it is far worse than the Divination Primaris (although I guess you could take both and effectively Guide two units). The 1 on the Fate Chart was a terrible Focuses Witchfire power. Fortune and Doom are still options (the Farseer in the report had them) and appear to have the same effects.
- The Avatar has Fleet. Also one of the psychic powers increases your movement speed/charge range somehow
- The Wraithknight is insanely huge, it is literally twice the height of a Wraithlord, and the sword option it can take is basically the size of a Wraithlord as well. It can take up to 2 Suncannons, which are S6 AP2 Heavy 3 Small Blast or up to 2 Wraithlances(?) which are presumably the heavy anti tank option. Sword replaces one of the big guns I think (they are arm mounted like the Titans). This is in addition to the two shoulder mounted heavy weapons (I saw Scatters and Starcannons, so presumably the normal range of heavy weapons are available)
- Wraithguard and Wraithblades look good, think scaled down Wraithlords. They looked a bit bigger than the old ones, but I think it was partly just the added range of motion in the poses on 40mm bases (similar to the old 25mm base Terminators vs the newer 40mm base ones, they are bigger but the better poses help as well). Wraithguard can now get either Wraithcannons (which from the fluff descriptions seemed to still be single shot and very powerful) or D Scythes which were described as a multi shot weapon but it could still Pen vehicles on a 6. Wraithblades are only 1A base (sadly) but looked like they could go either 2 CCW (no idea on stats of their weapons, but they appeared to have sword/axe options) or 1 CCW + Shield gen arm.
- Wraithguard are definitely S5 T6, Lord is almost certainly not T6 (a full unit of Destroyers shot one in the report and did nothing, which suggests T8 or some other equivalent buff). No idea on the stats for the Knight.
- It looks like Aspect Warriors have the same base profile, include Exarches with Ld9
- Reapers have Slow and Purposeful
- Rangers have WS4. They also have a character (not sure if he is upgrade or HQ) who has a 120" range Sniper Rifle.
- One of the fliers has 2 Heavy D Scythes on the wings and a psychic based main gun. The other has 2 Bright Lances and a Pulse Laser.
- Saw stats for what looked like special weapons for characters, might have been for Special Characters as well since the 120" range sniper was in there. One weapon was +2S, AP- Melee, Rending, Fleshbane, Instant Death. Another was +1S AP3, Soul Blaze, and if you killed anything with Soul Blaze then every unit within 6" of that unit would become effected by Soul Blaze as well. There was also a one use only piece of wargear, which you could use when the character died. On a 2+ you place a S4 AP3 template over the character, hitting both friend and foe, but if you cause at least 1 wound then the character stands back up with 1 wound. Last one I saw was an item which gave the user Fearless, Shrouded, Stealth and re-roll cover saves but they lose the IC rule, which gives people a way to make a Solitare (the name was something to do with the Laughing God).

The bikes! Tell us about the bikes! Surely you must have seen whether they are new sculpts or a repack? Please tell us the rumours are not true!

**Iracundus**

Redemption wrote:
unmercifulconker wrote:
What is the point of Wraithlords now though, why would you even fund more production of a smaller chasis when your race is dieing? Geese, no wonder the Eldar are fading away, poor funding decisions.

Edit: Its not like they need to save eldar dollars, they wont get to use it in the future!

The Wraithknight requiring a twin - one dead, one living - probably throws a spanner in the works of wanting to field them en masse.

Though with Revenants needing only 1 living to pilot, it still doesn't make sense. Essentially you've got a smaller suit with restrictive crew requirements when you can get a much bigger war machine that has no such restriction, so why even have the Wraithknight?

**Shandara**

Because fluff.

GW just made it up on the spot.

**Powerguy**

@Ledabot. Possibly, the Eldar did table the Necrons in the report but I didn't see the players bouncing around like a 12 year old girl like you normally would if they had a major special rule advantage.

@lordofthegophers. Bikes are a repack, 3 in one kit. From the report it looks like they are still much the same as before rule wise as well (the only upgrades they had were Shuriken Cannons) which is a major disappointment.

**Enigma**

Wow... I need to get my hands on the next WD!
And a pair of Wraith knights (yes a pair! I don't need food or water this month!)
And that Sniper!
Oooh... I hope this rules are good, well thought out and interesting!

**PredaKhaine**

Enigma wrote:
Wow... I need to get my hands on the next WD!
And a pair of Wraith knights (yes a pair! I don't need food or water this month!)

You and me both - I sold a load of wolves stuff and got £140. I thought it would've gone further than two models though...

**Enigma**

Iracundus wrote:
Redemption wrote:
unmercifulconker wrote:
What is the point of Wraithlords now though, why would you even fund more production of a smaller chasis when your race is dieing? Geese, no wonder the Eldar are fading away, poor funding decisions.

Edit: Its not like they need to save eldar dollars, they wont get to use it in the future!

The Wraithknight requiring a twin - one dead, one living - probably throws a spanner in the works of wanting to field them en masse.

Though with Revenants needing only 1 living to pilot, it still doesn't make sense. Essentially you've got a smaller suit with restrictive crew requirements when you can get a much bigger war machine that has no such restriction, so why even have the Wraithknight?

I'll make up my own fluff, better fluff! With Lasers and Dragons!
No, but really. I'll probably get my self a pair of them and bamf! I got two living twins in mini-titans guided by older deader pilots. done and done ^^

...now I just have to figure if I'll have to sacrifice my son or my right arm to afford them...

**His Master's Voice**

Iracundus wrote:
Though with Revenants needing only 1 living to pilot, it still doesn't make sense. Essentially you've got a smaller suit with restrictive crew requirements when you can get a much bigger war machine that has no such restriction, so why even have the Wraithknight?

I'm going to repeat myself. Why bother with PA if you can have all Terminiator armies? Or heck, why bother with Temrinators, why not go all Dreadnought? Or all Titan while we're at it.

**unmercifulconker**

Enigma wrote:
Iracundus wrote:
Redemption wrote:
unmercifulconker wrote:
What is the point of Wraithlords now though, why would you even fund more production of a smaller chasis when your race is dieing? Geese, no wonder the Eldar are fading away, poor funding decisions.

Edit: Its not like they need to save eldar dollars, they wont get to use it in the future!

The Wraithknight requiring a twin - one dead, one living - probably throws a spanner in the works of wanting to field them en masse.

Though with Revenants needing only 1 living to pilot, it still doesn't make sense. Essentially you've got a smaller suit with restrictive crew requirements when you can get a much bigger war machine that has no such restriction, so why even have the Wraithknight?

I'll make up my own fluff, better fluff! With Lasers and Dragons!
No, but really. I'll probably get my self a pair of them and bamf! I got two living twins in mini-titans guided by older deader pilots. done and done ^^

...now I just have to figure if I'll have to sacrifice my son or my right arm to afford them...

Dude, dont be so stupid, you need your arm to paint or hold the model.

**Enigma**

Didn't think of that... seem like daddy has some bad news when he gets home then

About the wraith knight pilot fluff: Maybe the Wraith knight is supposed to be used by titan pilots who've lost their twin in battle? Instead of continue fighting in revenant or phantom, they can fight together in a mini-titan that's infused with the siblings spirit?
Just throwing out ideas here (kind of like how GW does ^^)

**Iracundus**

His Master's Voice wrote:
Iracundus wrote:
Though with Revenants needing only 1 living to pilot, it still doesn't make sense. Essentially you've got a smaller suit with restrictive crew requirements when you can get a much bigger war machine that has no such restriction, so why even have the Wraithknight?

I'm going to repeat myself. Why bother with PA if you can have all Terminiator armies? Or heck, why bother with Temrinators, why not go all Dreadnought? Or all Titan while we're at it.

Because the Imperium is limited by its approach to technology. Manufacturing is the bottleneck, with some items hardly being manufactured at all or via rote repetition of little understood processes. In the Imperium, bodies are not a limiting factor, but the availability of technology. It is why the Imperial Guard are sent off with what the Imperium can mass produce, not the best of what the Imperium can produce.

However the Eldar don't have this apparent bottleneck. The Bonesingers sing their technology into existence. There has never been any specific indication in the background for example that Eldar Titan manufacture is limited. The Eldar limitation is supposedly dwindling numbers of living Eldar, so it is an entirely different situation from the Imperium. If your limitation is the number of living bodies, and thus also the number of pilots, the approach should be the opposite: of fitting out each as well as possible. Thus the whole concept of Eldar Guardians being used as ablative armor hordes, being armed with essentially a SMG and paper armor, is also counter to the whole theme of the Eldar, that of a dwindling race skilled in psychic technology.l