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 The Spiritseer wrote:
A bit OT: How is Iyanden pronounced?

I've always said "ee-yahn-dehn."


Automatically Appended Next Post:
But I could see pronouncing the first two syllables as a glide (as in Ioannes).

Just when I thought that this would be an all-around solid release with nothing being too visually offensive, BAM! A wild Wraithnight appears!

I also really appreciate that GW's method of using that text space to describe exactly what is already going on in the picture is as prevalent as ever.

Also, am I reading that right? They're cutting the Dire Avenger box to 5 men and pricing it at $35? I mean, standard GW practice, so I'm not too surprised, but still, that's hefty.

This the first big release where I don't dislike any of the model designs. It's just...the prices...

I'll probably get the Codex, though.

 Hulksmash wrote:
And to be fair GW actually had a reasonable expectation already of what people would pay based on a similar product of size recently released.

Odd that people think the Dreamforge model is well priced and then claim a taller model with all the parts is to expensive just cause it's produced by GW.

It is a small part the Wraithknight, but what has me more concerned is the Dire Avenger box. If all they include is 5 Dire Avengers then that worries me.

GW in the past has had the stealth price increases when they broke up $40 boxes of 10 models into $25 boxes of 5 models (these were unusually in the guise of changing from metal to plastic). In this release they are going from a $37.50 box of 10 Dire Avengers to a $35.00 box of 5 Dire Avengers. That is a huge price increase. (Now I know what the Australians feel like)

This has me concerned about the health of the hobby going forward.

GWs has targeted teenagers to enter into the hobby and build their model around selling to them. I have a friend who is quite well off with a 3 boys who wanted to get himself and his kids into the hobby but he went into a GW shop and had such sticker shock that he lost interest in it. These prices might be good in the short term for their bottom line by selling to their existing customers, but long term I wonder what will happen?

So do we have any news on jetcouncils? Cuz if those got cut I'm gonna cry sticky green stuff converted tears.

I agree the Dire Avenger price change is concerning, if it is true and there are no mitigating factors (amount in the box, etc.). We have not had confirmation though, so it is a bit early.

Oh, the Dire Avengers. Sorry, most people were complaining about the $115 price tag for the big guy. As for the DA's yeah, it's ridiculous. I feel adding a scope to standard guardians in the future of many.

How come I have a bad feeling that GW will try do something stupid like having you buy the additional $50.00 Iyanden Codex to unlock the Wraithknight as a troop?

 Blackmoor wrote:
How come I have a bad feeling that GW will try do something stupid like having you buy the additional $50.00 Iyanden Codex to unlock the Wraithknight as a troop?

Un-likely.

 Hulksmash wrote:
And to be fair GW actually had a reasonable expectation already of what people would pay based on a similar product of size recently released.

Odd that people think the Dreamforge model is well priced and then claim a taller model with all the parts is to expensive just cause it's produced by GW.

To be fair, that's comparing a Rolls Royce to a space hopper. To elaborate: the Crusader is more massive, even if the Wraithknight appears taller, since the former is not built like a stick insect. Furthermore, the Crusader is also fully poseable to a degree that GW has never been able to engineer. The promise of additional weapons, modular armament possibilities, finer sculpt quality and sheer aesthetic value would also meand that its perceived value is greated to that seen in the admittedly lackluster pictures of the Wraithknight. They are two different objects, comparing them is an excercise of questionable value.

Furthermore, you're engaging in the common fallacy of taking two opinions espoused by people on this forum and them yoking them together as if one person made both. You're being intentionally misleading, unless you can produce actual individuals who have said that a) The Wraithknight is overpriced and b) the Leviathan Crusader is a fair price. Failure to do so just means your rhetorical case is based on deception.

Pretty sure there are a couple people discussing the price of the Wraithknight in the Dreamforge thread while encouraging the Leviathan Crusader last time I looked.

 djones520 wrote:

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

 djones520 wrote:
The aircraft.... Horrible. May be in contention for worst design yet, next to the SM chickenhawk.

I was going to ask if they even consult engineers before they build these things, but it's obvious now that they don't.

I don't think it's as bad as any of the Space Marine flyers, but yeah, it is a big disappointment for me. The two major problems I have with it, they didn't make it long and sleek like existing Eldar flyers, which is one of the things I like about existing Eldar flyers. Secondly, what's the deal with the stupid arse gunpods? If it weren't for the gunpods, I might think it could actually possibly fly, but the gunpods just ruin it for me.

Bingo. Those pods would make it impossible for it to fly more then the speed of a biplane.

Almost all aircraft in the 40k Universe have significantly worse aerodynamics than your average WW1 biplane. I was going to say we knew more about aerodynamics within a year or two of the first flight by the Wright brothers, thought honestly I think we knew more about aerodynamics even before they flew.

The ForgeWold Eldar aircraft are some of the few I could actually suspend disbelief to think they could fly. This thing, though, just does not look sleek, and it looks not-sleek for no good reason. The gunpods don't even look "cool" like a lot of Imperial flyers who defy aerodynamics, they are just awkward looking protrusions.

I think "cool your hate" might be a new Moderator phrase soon...

 pretre wrote:
Pretty sure there are a couple people discussing the price of the Wraithknight in the Dreamforge thread while encouraging the Leviathan Crusader last time I looked.

And the Crusader is quite a bit more massive than the WK, even with the WK a tiny bit taller. When I get a Wraithknight, I can do a more direct comparison, but the quality of the casting on the Crusader is superb, as is the engineering of the kit. It's set a high bar for 28mm huge walkers.

shade1313 wrote:

 pretre wrote:
Pretty sure there are a couple people discussing the price of the Wraithknight in the Dreamforge thread while encouraging the Leviathan Crusader last time I looked.

And the Crusader is quite a bit more massive than the WK, even with the WK a tiny bit taller. When I get a Wraithknight, I can do a more direct comparison, but the quality of the casting on the Crusader is superb, as is the engineering of the kit. It's set a high bar for 28mm huge walkers.

Not debating that. Just countering the statement:

unless you can produce actual individuals who have said that a) The Wraithknight is overpriced and b) the Leviathan Crusader is a fair price.

Which appear to exist.

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

 djones520 wrote:

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

 djones520 wrote:
The aircraft.... Horrible. May be in contention for worst design yet, next to the SM chickenhawk.

I was going to ask if they even consult engineers before they build these things, but it's obvious now that they don't.

I don't think it's as bad as any of the Space Marine flyers, but yeah, it is a big disappointment for me. The two major problems I have with it, they didn't make it long and sleek like existing Eldar flyers, which is one of the things I like about existing Eldar flyers. Secondly, what's the deal with the stupid arse gunpods? If it weren't for the gunpods, I might think it could actually possibly fly, but the gunpods just ruin it for me.

Bingo. Those pods would make it impossible for it to fly more then the speed of a biplane.

Almost all aircraft in the 40k Universe have significantly worse aerodynamics than your average WW1 biplane. I was going to say we knew more about aerodynamics within a year or two of the first flight by the Wright brothers, thought honestly I think we knew more about aerodynamics even before they flew.

The ForgeWold Eldar aircraft are some of the few I could actually suspend disbelief to think they could fly. This thing, though, just does not look sleek, and it looks not-sleek for no good reason. The gunpods don't even look "cool" like a lot of Imperial flyers who defy aerodynamics, they are just awkward looking protrusions.

Actually I think the Ork flyers are have the best chance of actual flight in 40k lol go figure. The least advance have the most realistic aircraft Heck they look like WWII air craft almost,

 Alpharius wrote:
I think "cool your hate" might be a new Moderator phrase soon...

And the trolls phrase could be 'embrace your hate'

Is it really that surprising that people look at utility and expectations when commenting on price?

Comparing a basic 40k codex unit that is now the most expensive single box in the game, to the cheapest Titan stand in is a huge gap in what people expect. If there's one thing GW has taught us, is that it's not the amount of plastic in the box that matters.

$115 for a centerpiece model, that is half your army (WM collosals) or a scenario based luxury (Dreamforge titans) is more reasonable than $115 for a ~300 point basic unit.

 Polonius wrote:
Is it really that surprising that people look at utility and expectations when commenting on price?

Comparing a basic 40k codex unit that is now the most expensive single box in the game, to the cheapest Titan stand in is a huge gap in what people expect. If there's one thing GW has taught us, is that it's not the amount of plastic in the box that matters.

$115 for a centerpiece model, that is half your army (WM collosals) or a scenario based luxury (Dreamforge titans) is more reasonable than $115 for a ~300 point basic unit.

It'll be even more hilarious when the thing dies in the first turn it is on the board.

DaddyWarcrimes wrote:

 Polonius wrote:
Is it really that surprising that people look at utility and expectations when commenting on price?

Comparing a basic 40k codex unit that is now the most expensive single box in the game, to the cheapest Titan stand in is a huge gap in what people expect. If there's one thing GW has taught us, is that it's not the amount of plastic in the box that matters.

$115 for a centerpiece model, that is half your army (WM collosals) or a scenario based luxury (Dreamforge titans) is more reasonable than $115 for a ~300 point basic unit.

It'll be even more hilarious when the thing dies in the first turn it is on the board.

True story:

The first time I used my plastic baneblade, my buddy went first. Shot a vindicator at it, barely clipped the front corner. Five to pen, Six for damange, rolls again, six, rolls a third time: 5. First shot kill of a baneblade. $90, 500pts, and hours of painting to set it down and pick it up.

My Baneblade has never fired a shot in anger. It always dies on the first turn.

I'm going to wait and see how essential the Wraithknight is before I buy it. It might be the best spamming unit in the codex, it might slot well into a list, it might be good but not in builds I'm interested in, or it might be overpriced/underpowered.

It's expensive for sure, but at $300 it's still better than a lot of light vehicle squadrons or transports. If it's good, i'm sure I'll buy it.

 Polonius wrote:
I'm going to wait and see how essential the Wraithknight is before I buy it. It might be the best spamming unit in the codex, it might slot well into a list, it might be good but not in builds I'm interested in, or it might be overpriced/underpowered.

It's expensive for sure, but at $300 it's still better than a lot of light vehicle squadrons or transports. If it's good, i'm sure I'll buy it.

I'm sort of in this boat, but I've been playing Daemons instead of Eldar for a while and I'm not sure I'm going back.

If I do take the Eldar out of cold storage, I still won't buy one. I'll just consider builds that don't use it.

 Dakkafang Dreggrim wrote:
Actually I think the Ork flyers are have the best chance of actual flight in 40k lol go figure. The least advance have the most realistic aircraft Heck they look like WWII air craft almost,

I agree, the Ork aircraft look like they could actually be real... except for the random junk they bolt on to it. A stripped down dakkajet looks like it could fly, too many Orky add ons and it looks like it'd probably be limited to early WW2 or even pre WW2 performance levels.

I don't really have a problem with the fact most 40k aircraft not looking like they could fly and can give them a pass if they look cool like the Dakka Jet or the Thunderbolt or the old Marauder Bomber (I don't give the Stormtalon a pass because it looks stupid). It's just Eldar aircraft DID look like they could fly and also looked pretty friggin' cool so why not keep that aesthetic?

I would be interested to see what what this new Eldar flyer would look like with it's gun pods sliced off and the guns reattached in better positions like in the nose (like the Nightwing). Though I still think it looks too stubby.

I think the Wraithknight is cool looking but I think it's a fantastical point sink...it's going to be worse than the Riptide.

The fliers look cool

The weapons are finally viable


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I think the Wraithknight is cool looking but I think it's a fantastical point sink...it's going to be worse than the Riptide.

The fliers look cool

The weapons are finally viable

 disel24 wrote:
I think the Wraithknight is cool looking but I think it's a fantastical point sink...it's going to be worse than the Riptide.

The fliers look cool

The weapons are finally viable


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I think the Wraithknight is cool looking but I think it's a fantastical point sink...it's going to be worse than the Riptide.

The fliers look cool

The weapons are finally viable

huh? the riptide is awesome, worth its points AND THEN SOME....

 unmercifulconker wrote:

 Alpharius wrote:
I think "cool your hate" might be a new Moderator phrase soon...

And the trolls phrase could be 'embrace your hate'

Yeah, I wonder who would win that one...

Anyway, now that I've seen some other angles of the Wraithknight I have to admit... I kind of like it!

Well, everything except the price of course!

Any news on the Dire Avengers? Perhaps the sprue has been changed? I'm scared, scared of the price increase.

Shame they didn't use the opportunity for a dual DA / Fire Dragons kit.

 ergotoxin wrote:
Any news on the Dire Avengers?

Not beyond what has been posted.

 djones520 wrote:
I was going to ask if they even consult engineers before they build these things, but it's obvious now that they don't.

I would have been far more surprised if they had. They're making vehicles for a science fantasy game of toy soldiers.