Eldar rumours (Preorder pics added to first post)

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**streamdragon**

I can see the Wraithknight's crotch shield being perhaps the most repurposed piece in awhile. It looks kind of stupid where it is (get a banner or something), but as an actual shield it would be pretty cool.

**wuestenfux**

Nvs wrote:
whigwam wrote:
wuestenfux wrote:
zedmeister wrote:
He's a big fella. Really like the new wraithguard. Definitely the winners of this release in my book...

Do they? They never worked out well in competitive lists.
Do they what?

Wraithguard were plenty competitive in 5th and 6th edition. I've played Greg Sparks (a prominent competitive Eldar player) several times, and he's always got a full unit of 10 WG. They seem to work pretty well for him.

I've never seen a wraithguard outside of its blister :(

From a theorycraft standpoint they didn't look like they could do much of anything. Especially as the meta turned Eldar more and more into biker gangs.

Hopefully their rules are improved dramatically as I'd love to start a wraithwing army.

You could let a full unit of WG walk towards the center of the battlefield holding it if possible. The enemy will fly circles around it and shoot it at leisure or ignore it. WG heavy armies tend to have a small model count. Fearlessness helps but the unit may get stuck in cc for a few rounds. I'll definitely stay away from a WG heavy army.

**UltraPrime**

Shandara wrote:
Possibly they can't even put out a jetseer/jetlock because those are kits made by Chapterhouse Studio's already. Lawsuit pending of course.

GW could give CH a kick in the nuts and remove these options from the Codex.

**jonolikespie**

*Edit*
I should just stop posting at this time of night.

**PredaKhaine**

wuestenfux wrote:
Nvs wrote:
whigwam wrote:
wuestenfux wrote:
zedmeister wrote:
He's a big fella. Really like the new wraithguard. Definitely the winners of this release in my book...

Do they? They never worked out well in competitive lists.
Do they what?

Wraithguard were plenty competitive in 5th and 6th edition. I've played Greg Sparks (a prominent competitive Eldar player) several times, and he's always got a full unit of 10 WG. They seem to work pretty well for him.

I've never seen a wraithguard outside of its blister :(

From a theorycraft standpoint they didn't look like they could do much of anything. Especially as the meta turned Eldar more and more into biker gangs.

Hopefully their rules are improved dramatically as I'd love to start a wraithwing army.

You could let a full unit of WG walk towards the center of the battlefield holding it if possible. The enemy will fly circles around it and shoot it at leisure or ignore it. WG heavy armies tend to have a small model count. Fearlessness helps but the unit may get stuck in cc for a few rounds. I'll definitely stay away from a WG heavy army.

I'm the opposite - I love my wraithguard. But they only tend to come out at 3k+ as they are just too expensive points wise.
To be effective they need a spiritseer, 2 farseers and a wraithseer backing them up. With DE allies for the baron.

Then you get a T6, 3+, 2+ coversave, 2++ at the front for tanking, all re-rollable with a 4+fnp and hit and run to boot. 10 doomed, guided wraithcannon hurt what they shoot at.
In smaller games, they just aren't worth it atm.

This could all change a week on sat though

**Kirasu**

UltraPrime wrote:
Shandara wrote:
Possibly they can't even put out a jetseer/jetlock because those are kits made by Chapterhouse Studio's already. Lawsuit pending of course.

GW could give CH a kick in the nuts and remove these options from the Codex.

That's the kind of statement that shows the absolute absurdity of that thought process. If GW did that they wouldn't be hurting CH as much as HURTING THEIR PLAYERS. It's as if the players haven't even crossed their minds.

You could let a full unit of WG walk towards the center of the battlefield holding it if possible. The enemy will fly circles around it and shoot it at leisure or ignore it. WG heavy armies tend to have a small model count. Fearlessness helps but the unit may get stuck in cc for a few rounds. I'll definitely stay away from a WG heavy army.

Or just charge them with anything that ignores armor.. or shoot them with heavy weapons since my entire problem with WG is that they don't *do* anything besides stand there. In early 5th edition WG were fine, but mid-late 5th they were garbage and even more so in 6th given their 12" range in a game that is shooting based. Fearless sucks since they can't go to ground

**resipsa**

Orik wrote:
Mime wrote:
Has anyone got an insight as to how the Crimson Hunters Exarch will work?

Will this mean we will need 3 flyers with one being upgradableto an Exarch? I woould assume that not every CH will be upgradable, but buying a Squadren could get expensive.

It could work like the fighta ace upgrade for the dakka fighter- you pay x amount of points for an upgrade to BS and the ability to strafing run everything (or maybe slightly different)

I would love this.

**whigwam**

Asmodai Asmodean wrote:
whigwam wrote:Do they what?

Wraithguard were plenty competitive in 5th and 6th edition. I've played Greg Sparks (a prominent competitive Eldar player) several times, and he's always got a full unit of 10 WG. They seem to work pretty well for him.

As much as I wish this were true, eldar haven't placed top 10 in any GT so far in 2013.

Two Eldar players made top 16 at Feast of Blades (only 1 was Eldar primary, I think he placed between 5th-8th overall). Granted, that was Oct 2012, but close enough. GT results aren't everything, anyway. At every event, there are dozens of competitive armies and good players who don't make it to the top tables. Eldar, being an old, poorly understood, rarely played army, are typically underrepresented at big events. When luck (of the dice, in pairings, scenarios, etc.) plays a big factor in winning out over hundreds of players, it means they're that much more unlikely to place highly. The fact that high-profile Eldar players like Greg or Reece Robbins were either a. not playing at major events, or b. not currently playing Eldar didn't help matters either.

I say Wraithguard are (were) competitive because I've seen, firsthand, a high-level competitive player trounce other equally competitive players with them. That is proof enough for me. The fact that they were competitive in 5th should be beyond dispute since back then WG did win at major events. In any case, wuesten's statement that WG 'never worked out well in competitive lists' is not accurate.

**JB_Man**

whigwam wrote:
wuestenfux wrote:
zedmeister wrote:
He's a big fella. Really like the new wraithguard. Definitely the winners of this release in my book...

Do they? They never worked out well in competitive lists.
Do they what?

Wraithguard were plenty competitive in 5th and 6th edition. I've played Greg Sparks (a prominent competitive Eldar player) several times, and he's always got a full unit of 10 WG. They seem to work pretty well for him.

One very good player surprising people with an off the wall build doesn't make the models themselves good. I believe this is a case of subpar units and rules being propped up by a player of superior skill.

**resipsa**

MandalorynOranj wrote:
resipsa wrote:
Starfarer wrote:
The continued sales tell them what they do is not only tolerated, but encouraged.
Seriously, while I understand people being annoyed by the increases, you really can't say times are hard and this is an attack on your survival. You still have electricity, food, living space, and essentials right? Remember, Its toy soldiers in a game designed and produced by a company that intends to sell toy soldiers. If you can't come to grips with that, you should really step back from the table, breathe in, and find a more fulfilling, less emotionally charging experience for you.

These are first world problems, dawg.

Ok, see, nobody's saying that this is a life or death problem, but just because it's a "first world problem" doesn't make it a non-issue. I see it as a big problem that I may soon be priced out of 40k as it's something I love very much and a hobby that means a lot to me. So no, I won't die if the models get too expensive, but I'd still be losing something important, and not just losing it but pretty much having it taken away by the very company that makes it. Most other hobbies don't have this issue, like I'll never be priced out of reading or feel like publishing companies no longer want my business, so it sucks to get so invested and then have GW keep making it harder and harder to stick around.

Dude, while its an issue, it happens every sodding year, regardless of how much we complain or try to "occupy dakka." While I am still annoyed that my precious 20 man box of awesome guardsmen for 30 became one box of ten for 29, I know nothing will change the situation. If its an eldar rumors thread, its a rumors thread, lets be happy and stop griping that the pimp left his less attractive, older, but faithful women for the younger, nubile, more financially uninhibited ones who have parents that want to spend money to not have to deal with them. Hell, Demi left Bruce willis for Ashton Kutcher. We are Bruce Willis. End of story. We might get secondary droppings from our no longer interested plastic generating English masters, but we are no longer the prize pony.

Wilytank wrote:If Phil Kelly is writing this codex, I'm not sure if that's a good thing or not. One of the bad things I've started to notice about him is he has a really nasty habit or making dead weight units. See Flashgits, Mandrakes, Bloodbrides, Warp Talons, and Mutilators. Probably more.

Phil has done pretty good ones IMHO. I do agree re Warp Talons, but because of lack of grenades more than the idea behind the unit sucking. Maybe they should be able to assault ala vanguard vets... As for Mutilators, when I looked at the model pretty much seemed an easy way to make a "obliterator like" mold with pointy things attached. I don't see why they just didn't make world eater styled gladiator units dedicated to khorne in a heavy spot. I saw someone make a pretty sweet conversion with some Ogre Bulls for mutilators. I still wish they would have given chaos a variant equivalent to the crusader, since its an assault-ier army, as opposed to the maulerfiend, which doesn't really strike me as very great.

Spazamataz wrote:
Mkvenner wrote:
Nocturnus wrote:
Wilytank wrote:
If Phil Kelly is writing this codex, I'm not sure if that's a good thing or not. One of the bad things I've started to notice about him is he has a really nasty habit or making dead weight units. See Flashgits, Mandrakes, Bloodbrides, Warp Talons, and Mutilators. Probably more.

I am hopeful. Phil LOVES Eldar so I anticipate they will get some love. But I agree, he has created some of the worst units in game (looking at you Mr.Mandrake).

Hah. There has been far worse than the Mandrake and it was not done by Phil. I could easily throw the Pyrovore out there or have we all just let that bug slip into memory?

You know, I've actually never seen a pyrovore on the field... Ever!!

I once saw a pyrovore used as a paperweight on a windy day.

Slaanesh-Devotee wrote:
Mr.Church13 wrote:
Random powers already confirms the nerf bat across the face of Farseers and Warlocks, they of course have to nerf Runes of Warding because Space Wolves have to remain on top for anti psykers.

All of this was going to happen regardless of anything else. Powers are now random for 6th (a massive point in its favour to me), and things like the Runes of Warding are less effective (see: Psychic Hoods). I'd make any bet you like that Space Wolf Rune Priests will be way toned down as well once it gets around to their turn.

I dislike random, but everyone is getting it, at least from what we know the primaris powers are decent. I wonder if the warlocks will have "bound" style powers

deathmagiks wrote:Found this on Warseer. Have not seen it here yet. THESE ARE JUST RUMORS:

-You can make Run moves in addition to shooting Shuriken weapons.

-Shuriken weapons have a rule which makes them ignore armor on a to-wound roll of a 6-- similar to rending, but it's not actually the Rending rule.

-The Wraithknight starts at about 250 points and caps around 350, and towers over even the Tau Riptide. It's 9'' tall. The Wraithknight has the ability for its weapons to become twin-linked if it hits with a scatter laser it comes equipped with, even against airborne targets. It can shoot S9 and 10 small blasts, and has a total of four weapons on it-- you have a choice of several, including a huge wraithblade and a lance weapon.

- Wraithguard are cheaper both points-wise and financially speaking, and are now S5 and T6, and have the option to be equipped with Wraithblades as per the current Codex's in place of their guns, making them a dangerous close combat unit.

- Including a Spiritseer as a HQ choice allows you to bring Wraithguard as Troops.

- Expect Guardians to supplant Dire Avengers as the staple Troops choice-- they're very points efficient and with the buff to shuriken weapons, they should expect to be in a lot of competitive armies.

-The Fire Prism has been nerfed a bit-- basically, they want to drive people back towards Aspect Warrior and Wraith-heavy armies, rather than the mechanized Eldar army literally everyone and their brother played with the exact same list. Can't really say to what extent, but the purchasing advice was to "Not load up on them."

-The Avatar is "Definitely better."

-The Iyanden supplement is not a splash release, and will be normally available. Iyanden is strictly a fluff book, and contains no game rules. The rules to play a themed Iyanden army are found completely in Codex: Eldar. This is a move to appease people who want more fluff in books as well as people who would rather just have more game content with the fluff optional. This is an experiment in seeing how this works-- if it does well, expect Games Workshop to continue with the release of "chapter-specific" fluff supplements for their Codex releases.

Interesting read about the Iyanden book...

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
Macok wrote:
Welcome to the world of S \ AP where great against armour can mean awful against armour.
Elder also have armour-bane weapons with AP-.
With system specifically created to distinguish one armour from the other you can't expect equal treatment to both.
I still don't forgive GW for getting rid of save modifiers and introducing the AP system. The AP system is basically like building imbalance right in to the core mechanics of a game.

Farseer_Kaiser wrote:Or Eldrad still knows ALL THE POWERS

I'm not that mad about the rolls, I've been playing with the Div/Tele tables exclusively since the nerf (I play mechdar mostly) and you adapt. I've betting you will be able to get up to at least ML3 easily and cheaply, so couple of Farseers and you'll get the powers you want.

Whats more interesting is that Destructor is now on one of the charts, as is Conceal. So does this mean that Warlocks will become fully fledged psychers? As an Ulthwé player, that makes me very, very happy.

I REALLY hope Ulthwe makes a return. My black guys have been sitting on a shelf a while now. If eldrad doesn't have whatever the 40K equivalent to Loremaster is, I'll be surprised. He's friggin Eldrad.

**Red Corsair**

UltraPrime wrote:
Shandara wrote:
Possibly they can't even put out a jetseer/jetlock because those are kits made by Chapterhouse Studio's already. Lawsuit pending of course.

GW could give CH a kick in the nuts and remove these options from the Codex.

This has actually been my prediction, the bike council never really existed until last codex. Before that it was the Ulthwe triple seer council that was the flavor of the month and Oh look, hey, it vanished. I bet bike councils vanish as well. Heck my archon can't ride a bike any more lol I would not be surprised in the slightest.

**Farseer Faenyin**

whigwam wrote:
Asmodai Asmodean wrote:
whigwam wrote:Do they what?

Wraithguard were plenty competitive in 5th and 6th edition. I've played Greg Sparks (a prominent competitive Eldar player) several times, and he's always got a full unit of 10 WG. They seem to work pretty well for him.

As much as I wish this were true, eldar haven't placed top 10 in any GT so far in 2013.

Two Eldar players made top 16 at Feast of Blades (only 1 was Eldar primary, I think he placed between 5th-8th overall). Granted, that was Oct 2012, but close enough. GT results aren't everything, anyway. At every event, there are dozens of competitive armies and good players who don't make it to the top tables. Eldar, being an old, poorly understood, rarely played army, are typically underrepresented at big events. When luck (of the dice, in pairings, scenarios, etc.) plays a big factor in winning out over hundreds of players, it means they're that much more unlikely to place highly. The fact that high-profile Eldar players like Greg or Reece Robbins were either a. not playing at major events, or b. not currently playing Eldar didn't help matters either.

I say Wraithguard are (were) competitive because I've seen, firsthand, a high-level competitive player trounce other equally competitive players with them. That is proof enough for me. The fact that they were competitive in 5th should be beyond dispute since back then WG did win at major events. In any case, wuesten's statement that WG 'never worked out well in competitive lists' is not accurate.

I'm glad to see Wraithguard worked well for a player, but the fact remains that for their points value you can quite easily take many different options other than them that can do what they do better. Everybody can cite an example where one unit of underperforming models were taken by a 'great player' who then did well with them. This doesn't prove their use, it is simply an exception to the norm.

Wraithguard are terribly expensive for what they do, and in 5th and 6th Editions were simply not worth putting on the table in games under 2500pts.

**ShatteredBlade**

I really hope that they resculpt the Eldar Guardians. I really hate those models.

**whigwam**

JB_Man wrote:One very good player surprising people with an off the wall build doesn't make the models themselves good. I believe this is a case of subpar units and rules being propped up by a player of superior skill.

And yet that 'player of superior skill' is convinced he's making the strongest choice available. This isn't a case of playing bad units for the fun of it.

I'm not sure why so many regard Wraithguard as subpar anyway. The resiliency and area-denial 10 T6/3+ Fearless scoring bodies bring to the table is nothing to sneeze at. Attach Eldrad, Maugan Ra, and Baron Sathonyx and you have a scoring, area-denying unit with strong shooting and assault capability. They can hardly be shot to effect, should never lose assault, and cannot be locked in assault anyway. I mean, plenty of people talked up the Harliestar, but Wraithguardstar was a lot stronger IMO.

**Asmodai Asmodean**

Red Corsair wrote:
UltraPrime wrote:
Shandara wrote:
Possibly they can't even put out a jetseer/jetlock because those are kits made by Chapterhouse Studio's already. Lawsuit pending of course.

GW could give CH a kick in the nuts and remove these options from the Codex.

This has actually been my prediction, the bike council never really existed until last codex. Before that it was the Ulthwe triple seer council that was the flavor of the month and Oh look, hey, it vanished. I bet bike councils vanish as well. Heck my archon can't ride a bike any more lol I would not be surprised in the slightest.

Hasn't Fortune Seer Council existed since 3rd edition?

The reason I say 2013 is because in Oct 2012 we didn't have any new codices out for 6th Edition.

**JOHIRA**

Kirasu wrote:
UltraPrime wrote:
Shandara wrote:
Possibly they can't even put out a jetseer/jetlock because those are kits made by Chapterhouse Studio's already. Lawsuit pending of course.

GW could give CH a kick in the nuts and remove these options from the Codex.

That's the kind of statement that shows the absolute absurdity of that thought process. If GW did that they wouldn't be hurting CH as much as HURTING THEIR PLAYERS. It's as if the players haven't even crossed their minds.

I bash GW as much as anyone else here, but let's be fair: we don't know that GW has even engaged in that kind of thinking. That's just speculation from UltraPrime and Shandra.

**Red Corsair**

whigwam wrote:
JB_Man wrote:One very good player surprising people with an off the wall build doesn't make the models themselves good. I believe this is a case of subpar units and rules being propped up by a player of superior skill.
And yet that 'player of superior skill' is convinced he's making the strongest choice available. This isn't a case of playing bad units for the fun of it.

I'm not sure why so many regard Wraithguard as subpar anyway. The resiliency and area-denial 10 T6/3+ Fearless scoring bodies bring to the table is nothing to sneeze at. Attach Eldrad, Maugan Ra, and Baron Sathonyx and you have a scoring, area-denying unit with strong shooting and assault capability. They can hardly be shot to effect, should never lose assault, and cannot be locked in assault anyway. I mean, plenty of people talked up the Harliestar, but Wraithguardstar was a lot stronger IMO.

Well maybe so but it is a moot point as of June when everything is changing. I am sure they go up in cost anyway making that unit idiotically over priced. If taking a spirit seer is required to make them score that deathstar got worse. However if the spirit seer makes 5 man squads scoring units then eldar can enjoy having small resilient scoring bodies for once.

**shamikebab**

I'm not a fan of Seer councils on jetbikes really, it feels very unfluffy. So I would like to see them toned down so a foot council is more viable.

**JOHIRA**

resipsa wrote:
MandalorynOranj wrote:
resipsa wrote:
Starfarer wrote:
The continued sales tell them what they do is not only tolerated, but encouraged.
Seriously, while I understand people being annoyed by the increases, you really can't say times are hard and this is an attack on your survival. You still have electricity, food, living space, and essentials right? Remember, Its toy soldiers in a game designed and produced by a company that intends to sell toy soldiers. If you can't come to grips with that, you should really step back from the table, breathe in, and find a more fulfilling, less emotionally charging experience for you.

These are first world problems, dawg.

Ok, see, nobody's saying that this is a life or death problem, but just because it's a "first world problem" doesn't make it a non-issue. I see it as a big problem that I may soon be priced out of 40k as it's something I love very much and a hobby that means a lot to me. So no, I won't die if the models get too expensive, but I'd still be losing something important, and not just losing it but pretty much having it taken away by the very company that makes it. Most other hobbies don't have this issue, like I'll never be priced out of reading or feel like publishing companies no longer want my business, so it sucks to get so invested and then have GW keep making it harder and harder to stick around.

Dude, while its an issue, it happens every sodding year, regardless of how much we complain or try to "occupy dakka." While I am still annoyed that my precious 20 man box of awesome guardsmen for 30 became one box of ten for 29, I know nothing will change the situation. If its an eldar rumors thread, its a rumors thread, lets be happy and stop griping that the pimp left his less attractive, older, but faithful women for the younger, nubile, more financially uninhibited ones who have parents that want to spend money to not have to deal with them. Hell, Demi left Bruce willis for Ashton Kutcher. We are Bruce Willis. End of story. We might get secondary droppings from our no longer interested plastic generating English masters, but we are no longer the prize pony.

This is possibly the most absurd thing I've ever seen on Dakka. I am not GW's bitch. You are not GW's bitch. You have a choice in what you buy. The only reason you put up with arbitrary price increases is because you choose to put up with it. Don't try to silence players that are willing to complain (and willing to choose not to buy absurdly priced products) just because you aren't.

**PredaKhaine**

Red Corsair wrote:
whigwam wrote:
JB_Man wrote:One very good player surprising people with an off the wall build doesn't make the models themselves good. I believe this is a case of subpar units and rules being propped up by a player of superior skill.
And yet that 'player of superior skill' is convinced he's making the strongest choice available. This isn't a case of playing bad units for the fun of it.

I'm not sure why so many regard Wraithguard as subpar anyway. The resiliency and area-denial 10 T6/3+ Fearless scoring bodies bring to the table is nothing to sneeze at. Attach Eldrad, Maugan Ra, and Baron Sathonyx and you have a scoring, area-denying unit with strong shooting and assault capability. They can hardly be shot to effect, should never lose assault, and cannot be locked in assault anyway. I mean, plenty of people talked up the Harliestar, but Wraithguardstar was a lot stronger IMO.

Well maybe so but it is a moot point as of June when everything is changing. I am sure they go up in cost anyway making that unit idiotically over priced. If taking a spirit seer is required to make them score that deathstar got worse. However if the spirit seer makes 5 man squads scoring units then eldar can enjoy having small resilient scoring bodies for once.

The Spiritseer was already a requirement to make them troops iirc

So, has anyone heard any new rumours lately?

**Red Corsair**

PredaKhaine wrote:
Red Corsair wrote:
whigwam wrote:
JB_Man wrote:One very good player surprising people with an off the wall build doesn't make the models themselves good. I believe this is a case of subpar units and rules being propped up by a player of superior skill.
And yet that 'player of superior skill' is convinced he's making the strongest choice available. This isn't a case of playing bad units for the fun of it.

I'm not sure why so many regard Wraithguard as subpar anyway. The resiliency and area-denial 10 T6/3+ Fearless scoring bodies bring to the table is nothing to sneeze at. Attach Eldrad, Maugan Ra, and Baron Sathonyx and you have a scoring, area-denying unit with strong shooting and assault capability. They can hardly be shot to effect, should never lose assault, and cannot be locked in assault anyway. I mean, plenty of people talked up the Harliestar, but Wraithguardstar was a lot stronger IMO.

Well maybe so but it is a moot point as of June when everything is changing. I am sure they go up in cost anyway making that unit idiotically over priced. If taking a spirit seer is required to make them score that deathstar got worse. However if the spirit seer makes 5 man squads scoring units then eldar can enjoy having small resilient scoring bodies for once.

The Spiritseer was already a requirement to make them troops iirc

So, has anyone heard any new rumours lately?

Not in the current book, no. Currently the unit just needs to be 10 strong to be troops which is what I was refering too.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

shamikebab wrote:
I'm not a fan of Seer councils on jetbikes really, it feels very unfluffy. So I would like to see them toned down so a foot council is more viable.

Yea I agree, people keep acting like they are jedi knights but that whole council is really just a bunch of old weathered and venerable scryers. Their main role is to guide the craftworld and it's precious cargo, not rush headlong into the fray, it's the aspect warriors job to keep them safe. Its the aspect warriors and temples that are supposed to be combat monsters. I feel bad that so many forget about the shining spears due to that bike council.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Asmodai Asmodean wrote:
Red Corsair wrote:
UltraPrime wrote:
Shandara wrote:
Possibly they can't even put out a jetseer/jetlock because those are kits made by Chapterhouse Studio's already. Lawsuit pending of course.

GW could give CH a kick in the nuts and remove these options from the Codex.

This has actually been my prediction, the bike council never really existed until last codex. Before that it was the Ulthwe triple seer council that was the flavor of the month and Oh look, hey, it vanished. I bet bike councils vanish as well. Heck my archon can't ride a bike any more lol I would not be surprised in the slightest.

Hasn't Fortune Seer Council existed since 3rd edition?

The reason I say 2013 is because in Oct 2012 we didn't have any new codices out for 6th Edition.

4th to my recollection. 3rd I actually saw shining spears.

**PredaKhaine**

Can we only post in here if we have new rumours? I keep getting over excited only to find out that we're all just arguing again...:(

(and I know I'm guilty of this too...)

**Red Corsair**

PredaKhaine wrote:
Can we only post in here if we have new rumours? I keep getting over excited only to find out that we're all just arguing again...:(

(and I know I'm guilty of this too...)

It's ok to discuss the rumors that are already up. Too some degree it's ok to speculate slightly though folks should at least have the majrity of their posts be relevant to the rumors. Most importantly be polite while "arguing"

**JB_Man**

whigwam wrote:
JB_Man wrote:One very good player surprising people with an off the wall build doesn't make the models themselves good. I believe this is a case of subpar units and rules being propped up by a player of superior skill.
And yet that 'player of superior skill' is convinced he's making the strongest choice available. This isn't a case of playing bad units for the fun of it.

I'm not sure why so many regard Wraithguard as subpar anyway. The resiliency and area-denial 10 T6/3+ Fearless scoring bodies bring to the table is nothing to sneeze at. Attach Eldrad, Maugan Ra, and Baron Sathonyx and you have a scoring, area-denying unit with strong shooting and assault capability. They can hardly be shot to effect, should never lose assault, and cannot be locked in assault anyway. I mean, plenty of people talked up the Harliestar, but Wraithguardstar was a lot stronger IMO.

He's convinced he's making the strongest choice available for him. People think differently, and therefore they play differently. There's no doubt that the squad you described is tough, but so is anything else you put half of your army's points into. You also can't ignore the benefit he had from surprising everyone with Wraithguard. A dedicated hand to hand unit will destroy that squad, and if the units were actually good enough to be part of the meta at large, people would have been prepared for it.

**whigwam**

JB_Man wrote:A dedicated hand to hand unit will destroy that squad, and if the units were actually good enough to be part of the meta at large, people would have been prepared for it.

What dedicated HtH unit is going to destroy a 2++ rerollable, majority T6, Fearless, Hit-and-Run (on anything but a 6) unit...? I primarily play assault-oriented lists and I don't have anything that can handle that.

The units are good enough, but they have no serious presence in the meta because of the Eldar book's old age and complexity. Unlike most other popular competitive books, Eldar was challenging. The fact that WG were some of the most out of date, overpriced, hideous models in the game probably didn't help either.

**puma713**

You know, I hadn't really thought of it before, but maybe the reason there is such a huge push on Wraith_____ is because Phil moved forward in the lore and Eldar have been pushed to a point of activating more and more wraith units.

Pure speculation, but it would make the release make more sense in my mind.

**JB_Man**

whigwam wrote:
JB_Man wrote:A dedicated hand to hand unit will destroy that squad, and if the units were actually good enough to be part of the meta at large, people would have been prepared for it.
What dedicated HtH unit is going to destroy a 2++ rerollable, majority T6, Fearless, Hit-and-Run (on anything but a 6) unit...? I primarily play assault-oriented lists and I don't have anything that can handle that.

The units are good enough, but they have no serious presence in the meta because of the Eldar book's old age and complexity. Unlike most other popular competitive books, Eldar was challenging. The fact that WG were some of the most out of date, overpriced, hideous models in the game probably didn't help either.

Where are you getting the 2++? Baron's Shadowfield? Challenge that away. Oh, what happened to your 3+ rerollable? It was penetrated by AP2, like any scary HtH unit will probably have, unless you want to get Eldrad killed. Hit and Run all you want, you will lose every combat.

I run this very unit, because I really enjoy the concept of wraithguard. I even run a wraithseer for feel no pain to make it nastier. But I'm beyond the delusion that this squad is invincible. It's nasty, but it has some serious holes.

**whigwam**

JB_Man wrote:Where are you getting the 2++? Baron's Shadowfield? Challenge that away. Oh, what happened to your 3+ rerollable? It was penetrated by AP2, like any scary HtH unit will probably have, unless you want to get Eldrad killed. Hit and Run all you want, you will lose every combat.

And why would Baron accept the challenge? Spiritseer/Maugan Ra/Eldrad will handle that.

**Gavin Thorne**

I'm currently running Eldrad (with Invisibility and any Divination powers I can squeak in) in a squad of 10 WG with a Conceal warlock and a fortune Farseer. They get 2+ rerollable cover saves in the open and with luck I get Foreboding.

I WANT my opponent to shoot and assault them. I stick them in the open like a big chunk of bait that proceeds to remove whatever comes within 12" of them. It keeps the heat off my other scoring units which are not nearly as durable.

It's pricey, for sure, but I've only lost one game out of seven with them, against new Tau with markerlights ignoring cover saves, a rock to my scissors.

**JB_Man**

whigwam wrote:
JB_Man wrote:Where are you getting the 2++? Baron's Shadowfield? Challenge that away. Oh, what happened to your 3+ rerollable? It was penetrated by AP2, like any scary HtH unit will probably have, unless you want to get Eldrad killed. Hit and Run all you want, you will lose every combat.
And why would Baron accept the challenge? Spiritseer/Maugan Ra/Eldrad will handle that.

You want Eldrad or Maugan Ra to accept a challenge from a terminator sergeant and eat a S8 Powerfist? I sure as hell wouldn't.