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now with the randomization of psychic powers that pretty much wrecks any solid battle plan you have, short of building a list around the primis powers.

I am also not fond of randomization of things like psychic powers and other special abilities. I don't play that often and I don't "power" game, but when I do game I like to pick the things I think will be colorful fun and know what I'm getting. However, I can see one benefit to the 40K community as a whole from the power randomization, it prevents "cheese" or "power" gamers from building annoying never changing lists around ubiquitous abilities. Remember the people who abuse things like the old Chaos "Lash" power or the Space Wolves' "Jaws of the World Wolf"? I guess GW is trying to prevent that kind of over-use and abuse in pickup games and tournaments to keep the game as a whole more fun for everyone.

 Dakkafang Dreggrim wrote:

 whembly wrote:

Jacob29 wrote:
Why are Ork players complaining about T8, 3+ now when we've had Wraithlords for ever...

I have no idea...

I'd throw my trukk boyz at 'em. Tie them up for most of the game...

That's how you play 'em.

Trukk boyz assault, WK goes first kills 2-3. Nob maybe does a wound. Orks loos combat by 1-2 and are no longer fearless. They hold, next turn 2-3 more die, loose combate not test on a 6-7 flee get run down.

Oh and it is a MC so making Fear checks or hit on 6's ( I think that is the fear rule)

Tieing up a Lord for 2+ turns? Then, them boyz did their jobs. But, in my case, my nob usually do kill the lord.

I don't see the issue.

o.O


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Iranna wrote:
If I were an Ork player, I would turn the Wraithknight into a Squig!

Imagine the trololololololol moment!

Iranna.

Wraithknight an IC?

Only way Zoggy can "squigafy" a model if it's an IC.

 Enigma wrote:

 Robbietobbie wrote:
str10 t8 makes all my tyranid MC's sad little panda's

Poison + boneswords? Shouldn't that do the trick?

I think his point is that a S10 T8 W6 jumpack MC with 2 *real* guns for only 240pts is what makes Nid MC's sad. They all of a sudden feel even more overcosted and fragile.

 BrassScorpion wrote:

now with the randomization of psychic powers that pretty much wrecks any solid battle plan you have, short of building a list around the primis powers.

I am also not fond of randomization of things like psychic powers and other special abilities. I don't play that often and I don't "power" game, but when I do game I like to pick the things I think will be colorful fun and know what I'm getting. However, I can see one benefit to the 40K community as a whole from the power randomization, it prevents "cheese" or "power" gamers from building annoying never changing lists around ubiquitous abilities. Remember the people who abuse things like the old Chaos "Lash" power or the Space Wolves' "Jaws of the World Wolf"? I guess GW is trying to prevent that kind of over-use and abuse in pickup games and tournaments to keep the game as a whole more fun for everyone.

Fun is what you make it, I like tournaments and I like bringing the best a list can offer, I think that is fun as hell, forcing me to randomize because GW doesn't like the idea of tournament fun is stupid. Why attempt to kill a large chunk of the player base? I'll just find the next most reliable and most effective thing no matter how "balanced" and "fun" they make it.

Oh boy would it be awesome if WK was an IC. 3 in a unit !

 Ravenous D wrote:

What needs to happen is either a steep points drop (4pts for every aspect) or the addition of more rules that are built in (infiltrate on scorpions, tank hunter on dragons etc).

And now with the randomization of psychic powers that pretty much wrecks any solid battle plan you have, short of building a list around the primis powers.

Currently we are meh at speed, meh at specialization and the potential for meh with psykers. This book has a lot of expectations to meet, I for one hope its not a missed opportunity.

Seeing that one of the easiest things to read were some aspect special rules, you should be happy. SnP on Reapers and HnR on Spiders base point that this is the route they took.

The rumors indicate the Wraithknight starts at 250 points with no upgrades and goes up to 350. If eternal warrior or feel no pain isn't one of its upgrades then it will not be that hard to kill. There is so much rending, poison, and high str Ap2 in this game it isn't even funny.

Heck, even 20 Sniper Kroot cost less than half the cost of a naked Wraithknight and can drop one in 1 or 2 rounds of fire. And Tau can ally with a lot of armies.

 Ravenous D wrote:

 BrassScorpion wrote:

now with the randomization of psychic powers that pretty much wrecks any solid battle plan you have, short of building a list around the primis powers.

I am also not fond of randomization of things like psychic powers and other special abilities. I don't play that often and I don't "power" game, but when I do game I like to pick the things I think will be colorful fun and know what I'm getting. However, I can see one benefit to the 40K community as a whole from the power randomization, it prevents "cheese" or "power" gamers from building annoying never changing lists around ubiquitous abilities. Remember the people who abuse things like the old Chaos "Lash" power or the Space Wolves' "Jaws of the World Wolf"? I guess GW is trying to prevent that kind of over-use and abuse in pickup games and tournaments to keep the game as a whole more fun for everyone.

Fun is what you make it, I like tournaments and I like bringing the best a list can offer, I think that is fun as hell, forcing me to randomize because GW doesn't like the idea of tournament fun is stupid. Why attempt to kill a large chunk of the player base? I'll just find the next most reliable and most effective thing no matter how "balanced" and "fun" they make it.

I play Daemons, so I've recently had to become used to a whole lot of randomization in my lists. At first I really didn't like it, but I've adjusted. The primaris powers can be fairly reliable and useful, and with enough rolls I generally get what I want. On the whole I'd prefer to just buy exactly what I need, but for my army the randomization can work pretty well.

So... anyone have any rumors about things that actually matter? I.E. the existing units that I actually do use and would use versus the new ones that I have absolutely zero interest in using?

Like point cost changes to things like existing aspects, pathfinders, artillery? New weapon profiles? Anything?

 whembly wrote:

 Dakkafang Dreggrim wrote:

 whembly wrote:

Jacob29 wrote:
Why are Ork players complaining about T8, 3+ now when we've had Wraithlords for ever...

I have no idea...

I'd throw my trukk boyz at 'em. Tie them up for most of the game...

That's how you play 'em.

Trukk boyz assault, WK goes first kills 2-3. Nob maybe does a wound. Orks loos combat by 1-2 and are no longer fearless. They hold, next turn 2-3 more die, loose combate not test on a 6-7 flee get run down.

Oh and it is a MC so making Fear checks or hit on 6's ( I think that is the fear rule)

Tieing up a Lord for 2+ turns? Then, them boyz did their jobs. But, in my case, my nob usually do kill the lord.

I don't see the issue.

o.O

How does your Nob kill them? Why doesn't the wraithlord challenge?

A wraithlord will kill a nob very easily before it gets to attack. Even with just 2 attacks without a sword (and HoW), you still have a 83% chance to kill the nob.

The nob, on the other hand, will do 1.3 wound on average, but it's not likely that he'll get to attack anyway.

NamelessBard wrote:


How does your Nob kill them? Why doesn't the wraithlord challenge?

A wraithlord will kill a nob very easily before it gets to attack. Even with just 2 attacks without a sword (and HoW), you still have a 83% chance to kill the nob.

The nob, on the other hand, will do 1.3 wound on average, but it's not likely that he'll get to attack anyway.

AFAIK the Wraithlord isn't a character, so cannot issue or accept challenges.

chaos0xomega wrote:
So... anyone have any rumors about things that actually matter? I.E. the existing units that I actually do use and would use versus the new ones that I have absolutely zero interest in using?

Like point cost changes to things like existing aspects, pathfinders, artillery? New weapon profiles? Anything?

New things matter, Weather you are interested in them or not... But other then that, first post says no, they arn't hilighting the old stuff in WD, witch is the only real information that's out yet.

D6Damager wrote:
The rumors indicate the Wraithknight starts at 250 points with no upgrades and goes up to 350. If eternal warrior or feel no pain isn't one of its upgrades then it will not be that hard to kill. There is so much rending, poison, and high str Ap2 in this game it isn't even funny.

Heck, even 20 Sniper Kroot cost less than half the cost of a naked Wraithknight and can drop one in 1 or 2 rounds of fire. And Tau can ally with a lot of armies.

Unless you play orks. Then you have no rending, 3 models (melee only) posion, 1 gets hot Str8 AP2 gun (that is only on elites and HQ's choices), no insta death, no sniper, no krak grenades no lance, no melta. (Last two don't matter just pointing them out )

Wait sorry we have a Str-10 AP1 melta weapon. We have to randomly roll for it each turn on our weird boy.

Our best range bet is Lootas. And 15 lootas that roll 3 shots each might do 1 -2 wounds to it, IF they get the 45 shots. So if I take 45 lootas at 675 points I might be able to kill it at range on turn one.

The whole mob it with 30 ork boys plan will not work since it can move faster than the boyz on foot. Unless the opponent is not playing the game and just having it stand there, 30 ork boys wont catch this thing easily to tie it up.

As for trying to get power klaws to it, all they have to do is blow up the transport said power klaws are in (not hard to do). I deal with riptides with my Stormboyz since they ALL can hurt it. Not the case with the WK.

So my options look to be allies or wait 6+ months.

Yeah, at the 1500 point level, two WKs for 240 points each are doable. Every shot at the WKs is one shot less against the rest of the army, and this quite necessary if you consider the squishy Eldar troops.

Currently Wraithlords are characters much to the sad surprise of most power fist sergeants.

Brother Weasel wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:
So... anyone have any rumors about things that actually matter? I.E. the existing units that I actually do use and would use versus the new ones that I have absolutely zero interest in using?

Like point cost changes to things like existing aspects, pathfinders, artillery? New weapon profiles? Anything?

New things matter, Weather you are interested in them or not... But other then that, first post says no, they arn't hilighting the old stuff in WD, witch is the only real information that's out yet.

New things represent a small, tiny, and thus, relatively speaking, unimportant fraction of the whole. For something that is apparrently releasing next saturday (if certain rumors are to be believed) we dont have very much info...

chaos0xomega wrote:

New things represent a small, tiny, and thus, relatively speaking, unimportant fraction of the whole. For something that is apparrently releasing next saturday (if certain rumors are to be believed) we dont have very much info...

because no one has seen the codex yet or at least no one who posts on rumor sites...

As i said, so far the only information that people have been talking is out of WD really... and they don't talk up old units in WD...

Just the tacked on special rules for Spiders and Reapers so far. And the shoot and run thing for Dire Avengers and such. That's about all we know for infantry.

NamelessBard wrote:
[

How does your Nob kill them? Why doesn't the wraithlord challenge?

A wraithlord will kill a nob very easily before it gets to attack. Even with just 2 attacks without a sword (and HoW), you still have a 83% chance to kill the nob.

The nob, on the other hand, will do 1.3 wound on average, but it's not likely that he'll get to attack anyway.

I confess... hadn't played them in 6th ed. Good point. I usually just throw the lord a trukk squad just to tie him up a couple of rounds.

As an ork play, let's hope the new Codex don't make the lords characters.

 whembly wrote:

NamelessBard wrote:
[

How does your Nob kill them? Why doesn't the wraithlord challenge?

A wraithlord will kill a nob very easily before it gets to attack. Even with just 2 attacks without a sword (and HoW), you still have a 83% chance to kill the nob.

The nob, on the other hand, will do 1.3 wound on average, but it's not likely that he'll get to attack anyway.

I confess... hadn't played them in 6th ed. Good point. I usually just throw the lord a trukk squad just to tie him up a couple of rounds.

As an ork play, let's hope the new Codex don't make the lords characters.

Their characters already, says in the back of the brb

If the WL and WK are characters Orks are more screwed.....

We will have to have the nob die , claim that "Our weapons are Useless "rule to try to get out of combat. But not sure we can do that if fearless. Never had to use that rule before lol so not sure how it works.

 Dakkafang Dreggrim wrote:


Unless you play orks. Then you have no rending, 3 models (melee only) posion, 1 gets hot Str8 AP2 gun (that is only on elites and HQ's choices), no insta death, no sniper, no krak grenades no lance, no melta. (Last two don't matter just pointing them out )

Wait sorry we have a Str-10 AP1 melta weapon. We have to randomly roll for it each turn on our weird boy.

Actually, the Shokk Attack Gun and Zzap guns are both AP2, as well as the KMB.
Furthermore, the Snazzguns on Flashgitz are AP2 1/3 of the time- 1/2 if you buy the upgrade.

The Shokk Attack Gun has the possibility, slim though it may be, of removing a Wraithknight from the board more surely than conventional ID.

Admittedly, none of these tools is especially reliable, but the Orks do have the weapons available to them. You can stick the Zzap guns on any BW, Looted Wagon, or in a cheap squad of Gretchin. It isn't efficient, but you can do it.

Happy hunting! Go zzap some Eldar!

Even IF nothing else changes for dark reapers, slow and purposeful makes them SO much more viable it isn't even funny.

If the old rumors of troop aspects via Autarch specialization is true, scoring DRs with slow and purposeful would be boss.

Zzapp guns are AP 2 but with an average STR of 7 and have to roll to hit. Not effective Same as the shokk attack gun.

Flashgits are a Joke at this point and would be trying to hit on 5's hoping for AP 1-3 and then still need 6's to would.

Hoping that our random STR and AP weapons is a big point waste just to deal with one model they MIGHT hurt.

People are forgetting they also have an army behind the WK we also have to deal with.

Gwyidion wrote:
Even IF nothing else changes for dark reapers, slow and purposeful makes them SO much more viable it isn't even funny.

If the old rumors of troop aspects via Autarch specialization is true, scoring DRs with slow and purposeful would be boss.

Adding a shrouding warlock will be nice too.

 Dakkafang Dreggrim wrote:
Zzapp guns are AP 2 but with an average STR of 7 and have to roll to hit. Not effective Same as the shokk attack gun.

Flashgits are a Joke at this point and would be trying to hit on 5's hoping for AP 1-3 and then still need 6's to would.

Hoping that our random STR and AP weapons is a big point waste just to deal with one model they MIGHT hurt.

People are forgetting they also have an army behind the WK we also have to deal with.

Hey Dakkafang -

Just a quick side note - we understand your points of "frustration". However, I literally come back to this thread for Eldar Rumors and continue to see you complain about how your orks are going to deal with X for multiple pages. Would you start a thread elsewhere discussing ork tactics against these new Eldar rules? It would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

 Dakkafang Dreggrim wrote:
Zzapp guns are AP 2 but with an average STR of 7 and have to roll to hit. Not effective Same as the shokk attack gun.

Flashgits are a Joke at this point and would be trying to hit on 5's hoping for AP 1-3 and then still need 6's to would.

Hoping that our random STR and AP weapons is a big point waste just to deal with one model they MIGHT hurt.

People are forgetting they also have an army behind the WK we also have to deal with.

How do you deal with Wraithlords now? Use the same against the Wraithknight.

Why are you theorizing so much? Warhammer 40k is not balanced, and it's not meant to be fair. It's quite the casual "beer and pretzels" game, and if you take it that seriously, you're going to have a bad time. If you cared so much about winning and competitiveness, give GW more of your money and invest in the flavor-of-the-month color of Space Marines; that way you could always just buy the most recent Space Marine codex and have all your rainbow-colored Marines fit that new codex. You like Orks, right? They're green. I hear Green Marines are doing well nowadays. By choosing Orks, you limited your competitive ability to the time frame around when the Ork Codex came out.

Relax, enjoy the game, and enjoy the company you play with. It took the recent Tyranid Codex to teach me that, perhaps you'll follow suit in time.

 Dakkafang Dreggrim wrote:
Zzapp guns are AP 2 but with an average STR of 7 and have to roll to hit. Not effective Same as the shokk attack gun.

Flashgits are a Joke at this point and would be trying to hit on 5's hoping for AP 1-3 and then still need 6's to would.

Hoping that our random STR and AP weapons is a big point waste just to deal with one model they MIGHT hurt.

People are forgetting they also have an army behind the WK we also have to deal with.

My god can we please stop with the 2 pages of wraith lord whining? Okay, you have no idea how to kill a wraithlord despite many of ideas and strategies. I've been using WLs since forever against orks and THAT is not what is dangerous to them.. it's the high volume of shots from warwalkers/spiders/avengers.

Seriously, it's just T8.. find a way to kill it or just concede when anyone casts IRON ARM.

[/rant]

The alternative, of course, is to just ram the crap out of it with a battlewagon.

Lol, the Orks have slain the thread.

Back on topic, are there any ideas of how to use this new Ranger? He seemed to have a slew of special rules, though I'm really not sure why anyone would want to ignore the deployment range of infiltrating units with a sniper squad.