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 pretre wrote:

Eldarcannon wrote:
I think that wave serpent are actually good. Serpent shield downgrades penetrating hits on a 2+. You have a nice weapon just in case you don't need the shield anymore with a huge range (60"). Might be useful if it is down to 1HP and unloaded its passengers. Certainly it now is the most durable transport of the game. Not even land raider are this reliable.

They have the same problem they had with the old version. Downgrading a hit doesn't help since HP still kill you.

I think they're quite good, as was said they are now the hardest transport in the game to destroy. It's going to be pretty hard to get a hit through a 4+ jink save if they move when upgraded with holofields, if they move flat out that's down to a 3+. If you fail the 3+ you still have an 83.3% chance to drop it down to a glance.

It will take 9 lascannon shots from a BS4 unit to take a HP off a WS moving flat out with holofields, and it will take 71 shots to pen it let alone get an immobilized or explode result. That means 27 shots to down it.

Even if you don't flat out it still takes 6 shots to take a HP off and 50 shots to pen, that is ridiculously good and I will gladly pay 115pts + holofields for that security.

For comparison a Land raider takes 6 shots to take a HP off and 12 shots to get a pen and it cost 250 points, how can people say wave serpents are going to die easily?

Dont remember seeing many comments yet on War Walkers. Now with a BS 4 I see this as a significant buff to the war walker squadron equiped with scatter lasers?

Alright Got the entire Army List up, gonna take a Break for awhile(my gfs getting mad at me for not paying attention to her XP) I should have the Weapon profiles and Psychic Powers up later today.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/463557/5671458.page#5671458

Darge wrote:

GTKA666 wrote:

Puscifer wrote:
Just curious... what are the Harlies like now?

I've got 30 old school harlies and I want to put them to good use.

They are rather interesting now. The shadow seer became a psycher lvl 1 and veil of tears is: roll a 2d6x2 and if they harlies are not seen, then you cant fire at another unit. So we have a 24" gap now!

Point cost are the same, nothing about the master, while the death jest is the same.

They Still have the Troupe Master, he was labeled as Master Mime though, which i understand was confusing given the Master Mime is another Harlequin Unit all together.

Also Harlequin Whips are supposed to be Kisses, damn germans.... XP

lol knew that, just meant the the master is still nothing special and I will forever regard him as an unnecessary point addition.

They're survivable. Unless they get assaulted. Cus, you know, a skimmer screaming down the battlefield is most vulnerable to some infantry guy punching it.

Quark wrote:
Verdict: Number of pens goes down, number of glances dramatically increases. I prefer the old version, as I'm remembering tons of times in 6th where that extra one or two HP gone means my units don't make it to the destination.

This is certainly true but the unit won't die in the explosion and you will be able to shoot at full BS next turn. Moreover wave serpents are less prone to be one shot killed by some lucky guy. Melta infantry units, like fire dragons or combi-melta sternguard, will probably destroy a land raider in one turn. A wave serpent instead has better chances to survive.

Seen the list again I noticed that Banshees don't have plasma grenades... They where treated so badly... Such a same.

PalmerC wrote:
Dont remember seeing many comments yet on War Walkers. Now with a BS 4 I see this as a significant buff to the war walker squadron equiped with scatter lasers?

War Walkers got a bit better, 60 pts base now but thats with 2 Shuriken Cannons and a Force field(5++ save) included in the cost.
They can still be taken in squadrons of three, have all the same weapon options.
Scatter Lasers now have a special rule called Laser Lock that they shoot first, if at least one shot hits every other model in the unit gets twin link on all of their weapons.
They also can take Eldar Missile Launchers with Anti Air Rockets so they can by used as AA platforms (I have a feeling Scatter Laser + Missile Launcher will be even better now with 4 S6 shots now with Laser Lock and then being able to change out ammo Types on the Missile Launcher being able to handle hordes light armor and flyers.
Also with a 5++ Save and Scout they can get into a good forward position hopefully with cover and can remain pretty stationary and control large sections of the board with 36" range guns

 Autarch Fiallathandirel wrote:

It will take 9 lascannon shots from a BS4 unit to take a HP off a WS moving flat out with holofields, and it will take 71 shots to pen it let alone get an immobilized or explode result. That means 27 shots to down it.

Who cares. A wave serpent that has already moved is probably where it needed to be. That it died after getting there is pretty trivial.

They lost survivability when it comes to getting there in the first place. For example, when you go second and don't get any kind of Jink save.

 DarknessEternal wrote:

 Autarch Fiallathandirel wrote:

It will take 9 lascannon shots from a BS4 unit to take a HP off a WS moving flat out with holofields, and it will take 71 shots to pen it let alone get an immobilized or explode result. That means 27 shots to down it.

Who cares. A wave serpent that has already moved is probably where it needed to be. That it died after getting there is pretty trivial.

They lost survivability when it comes to getting there in the first place. For example, when you go second and don't get any kind of Jink save.

If you go second and are not in cover you missplayed or your initiative got seized.

Thoughts on the new WW's anyone?

WW's have become 50% more expensive now, before it was 40 pnts for a WW with dual SC, now it's 60 pnts. However, now they get free +5 inv. save, fleet and battletrance. Interesting, very interesting.

 DarknessEternal wrote:

 Autarch Fiallathandirel wrote:

It will take 9 lascannon shots from a BS4 unit to take a HP off a WS moving flat out with holofields, and it will take 71 shots to pen it let alone get an immobilized or explode result. That means 27 shots to down it.

Who cares. A wave serpent that has already moved is probably where it needed to be. That it died after getting there is pretty trivial.

They lost survivability when it comes to getting there in the first place. For example, when you go second and don't get any kind of Jink save.

Tau won't care about the jink save either.

 Popenfresh wrote:
Thoughts on the new WW's anyone?

WW's have become 50% more expensive now, before it was 40 pnts for a WW with dual SC, now it's 60 pnts. However, now they get free +5 inv. save, fleet and battletrance. Interesting, very interesting.

Depends on how much the upgrade weapons cost.

Also, fleet + battle trance means they can move to position during movement phase, shoot you and then run back with reroll.

The fact is the wave serpent still cant survive anything in melee. It's definitely much better than battlewagons and that mess of a transport that tau have to deal with though.

 Popenfresh wrote:
Thoughts on the new WW's anyone?

WW's have become 50% more expensive now, before it was 40 pnts for a WW with dual SC, now it's 60 pnts. However, now they get free +5 inv. save, fleet and battletrance. Interesting, very interesting.

For 20+ points they have become more survivable and more flexible in moving. O! and BS4? YES PLEASE! I see no downside to the point increase.

War walkers are great. I did not have the opportunity to carefully read laser lock. If it's what i suppose (the model gets rerolls, not the unit) they are good. BS4, 8 strenght 6 shots at 36" for 70 points. They are just a little tougher for a little more points and some nice tricks.

I'm still considering about mixed loadouts to take advantage from scatterlock. Maybe eml + laser?

GTKA666 wrote:

 Popenfresh wrote:
Thoughts on the new WW's anyone?

WW's have become 50% more expensive now, before it was 40 pnts for a WW with dual SC, now it's 60 pnts. However, now they get free +5 inv. save, fleet and battletrance. Interesting, very interesting.

For 20+ points they have become more survivable and more flexible in moving. O! and BS4? YES PLEASE! I see no downside to the point increase.

Not to mention anti-air missiles at BS4 in droves (although the unit likely does become expensive that way)

GTKA666 wrote:

 Popenfresh wrote:
Thoughts on the new WW's anyone?

WW's have become 50% more expensive now, before it was 40 pnts for a WW with dual SC, now it's 60 pnts. However, now they get free +5 inv. save, fleet and battletrance. Interesting, very interesting.

For 20+ points they have become more survivable and more flexible in moving. I see no downside to the point increase.

They also gained open topped though, and in my experience as a Deldar player, 10 all round open topped vehicles with 5++ survive literally nothing. It could prove to be a nerf.

 Shandara wrote:

GTKA666 wrote:

 Popenfresh wrote:
Thoughts on the new WW's anyone?

WW's have become 50% more expensive now, before it was 40 pnts for a WW with dual SC, now it's 60 pnts. However, now they get free +5 inv. save, fleet and battletrance. Interesting, very interesting.

For 20+ points they have become more survivable and more flexible in moving. O! and BS4? YES PLEASE! I see no downside to the point increase.

Not to mention anti-air missiles at BS4 in droves (although the unit likely does become expensive that way)

Not if you TL the sucker with laser lock (what ever it is). I think we are going to see a lot of SL/EML or BL combos out there for more AT fire powa.

@khaine- In my experience most people can;t get to my WW unless they either have DL(something equivalent) or they just try to ignore them since they could never reach them in the backfield.

It's a big nerf. Most of the time you were getting a 5+ cover save anyway, so the 5++ doesn't help much, and now you're way more likely to die to a a random heavy bolter or autocannon.

But at least you'll still get that 5++ against the swarms of Tau SMS.

DaddyWarcrimes wrote:
It's a big nerf. Most of the time you were getting a 5+ cover save anyway, so the 5++ doesn't help much, and now you're way more likely to die to a a random heavy bolter or autocannon.

But at least you'll still get that 5++ against the swarms of Tau SMS.

its not nerfing. It is balancing.

GTKA666 wrote:

DaddyWarcrimes wrote:
It's a big nerf. Most of the time you were getting a 5+ cover save anyway, so the 5++ doesn't help much, and now you're way more likely to die to a a random heavy bolter or autocannon.

But at least you'll still get that 5++ against the swarms of Tau SMS.

its not nerfing. It is balancing.

THIS. War walkers and fire dragons were our only under-priced units, so they fixed them.
And then replaced them with new under-priced units like warp spiders

 Khaine wrote:

GTKA666 wrote:

DaddyWarcrimes wrote:
It's a big nerf. Most of the time you were getting a 5+ cover save anyway, so the 5++ doesn't help much, and now you're way more likely to die to a a random heavy bolter or autocannon.

But at least you'll still get that 5++ against the swarms of Tau SMS.

its not nerfing. It is balancing.

THIS. War walkers and fire dragons were our only under-priced units, so they fixed them.
And then replaced them with new under-priced units like warp spiders

What they have done for the Warp Spiders brings tears of joys to my eyes. I had a list that themed mainly Warp spiders and now.....it is veeeerrrrryyyyyyy probable that it is going to be used. Just switched up ofc to allow the new swag units in

The twin-link for the laser light has to be for the squad. Or it'd be pointless.

Assuming it is for the squad (like has been indicated) Vypers, Walkers, and Guardians are insane. You actually don't need guide anymore for these units. Vyper's costing around 60pts each (after adding a second cannon) and then add one scatter laser so maybe 190 for the squad putting out 4 St6 BS4 shots and 15 TL-St6 BS4 shots that ignore armor on a 6 to wound. That's pretty impressive. Same thing for Warwalkers which can outflank.

Darge wrote:
Alright Got the entire Army List up, gonna take a Break for awhile(my gfs getting mad at me for not paying attention to her XP) I should have the Weapon profiles and Psychic Powers up later today.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/463557/5671458.page#5671458

Thanks for doing this.

Quick question: How do you link to a specific post ?

The little document icon next to the timestamp is a link.

Well GW shipped my Codex and Cards today. ETA on FedEx says tomorrow. Awesome!

I might have missed some discussion on this in the preceding 146 pages from this topic, but has anyone noticed how improved GJB are... and they have gotten a BS increase, Ancient Doom, And Battle Focus plus a 5 point decrease in points!?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 The Spiritseer wrote:
Well GW shipped my Codex and Cards today. ETA on FedEx says tomorrow. Awesome!

was there an email or something? I haven't received any word mine has shipped.

 The Spiritseer wrote:
Well GW shipped my Codex and Cards today. ETA on FedEx says tomorrow. Awesome!

Awesome news. Taking a sick day tomorrow, right?

 The Spiritseer wrote:
Well GW shipped my Codex and Cards today. ETA on FedEx says tomorrow. Awesome!

What!? GW shipping _before_ release? What trickery is this.