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Nvs wrote:

 undertow wrote:

 Magc8Ball wrote:
Also, if you're strictly playing by the rules, psychic powers are rolled for after Warlord traits... and the Warlock entry explicitly states that you assign Warlocks to squads after you roll for Warlord traits.

The only mention I could find about the timing of generating Psychic powers is on page 142: "Before either player deploys their army, you must generate psychic powers for your Psykers."

Rolling for Warlord traits happens during the 'Deployment' phase of game setup. It seems pretty clear that Psychic powers are generated before Warlord traits.

It's specifically mentioned in the Eldar codex that you choose warlord traits, then place your warlocks, then roll for abilities.

Well, seeing as how the codex hasn't been released yet, it's a bit difficult to see what is specifically mentioned isn't it?

If that's what the book actually says, that's pretty lame.

 undertow wrote:

Nvs wrote:


It's specifically mentioned in the Eldar codex that you choose warlord traits, then place your warlocks, then roll for abilities.

Well, seeing as how the codex hasn't been released yet, it's a bit difficult to see what is specifically mentioned isn't it?

Not that hard, really.

The crimson hunter is a great flyer but quite fragile...

Brother Weasel wrote:


What is your flier doing in the path of a helldrake if you are going first?

How exactly do you avoid it? The only way I can imagine is coming on at a very steep angle and going across your own army. In which case you:

a) probably wont get to shoot at anything
b) Can't shoot at his Heldrake when it comes on

So for our flyer to kill theirs we NEED to go Second. His Drake needs to come on BEFORE ours and he needs to not have a quad gun. While the Quad gun might not kill it, at AV10 .... it's fairly likely.

Not really, it has vector dancer so it's possible to stay out of Vector Strike range and still be able to shoot the turn it comes in.


Having to assign warlocks without knowing what powers they have is lame though. Apparently random powers in itself isn'r random enough.

Yeah, I'm a bit shakey on the Eldar flier just yet. Having the Autaurch help determine when he comes in may help, but I'm liking the Fear bomb version so far and the helldrake will just eat it and run while I assume nuking the rest of the army

 Magc8Ball wrote:

 undertow wrote:

Nvs wrote:


It's specifically mentioned in the Eldar codex that you choose warlord traits, then place your warlocks, then roll for abilities.

Well, seeing as how the codex hasn't been released yet, it's a bit difficult to see what is specifically mentioned isn't it?

Not that hard, really.

It's pretty amazing that you can tell what rules Kelly wrote from the rules Ward forced him to add in or change. This forced "cinematic" with warlocks reminds me of the same descrepency I see in the Helldrake rules coming out of left field and not fitting in design with the rest of Kelly's CSM dex.

Jacob29 wrote:

Brother Weasel wrote:


What is your flier doing in the path of a helldrake if you are going first?

How exactly do you avoid it? The only way I can imagine is coming on at a very steep angle and going across your own army. In which case you:

a) probably wont get to shoot at anything
b) Can't shoot at his Heldrake when it comes on

So for our flyer to kill theirs we NEED to go Second. His Drake needs to come on BEFORE ours and he needs to not have a quad gun. While the Quad gun might not kill it, at AV10 .... it's fairly likely.

The Eldar flyer has vector dancer and out ranges it. So you should be able to avoid vector strikes from the heldrake with a bit of finesse and practice while still being able to line up the shots you need.

Now, whether you can also avoid getting rapid fire from CSM bolters and hit with quad guns and blastmasters is another matter.

Jacob29 wrote:

Brother Weasel wrote:


What is your flier doing in the path of a helldrake if you are going first?

How exactly do you avoid it? The only way I can imagine is coming on at a very steep angle and going across your own army. In which case you:

a) probably wont get to shoot at anything
b) Can't shoot at his Heldrake when it comes on

So for our flyer to kill theirs we NEED to go Second. His Drake needs to come on BEFORE ours and he needs to not have a quad gun. While the Quad gun might not kill it, at AV10 .... it's fairly likely.

a) not worried about shooing ground targets if i'm more worried about the helldrake, so yes, come in so it can't fly over you.
b) is he not going to come on and try and kill something... if so he'll be closer... next turn you get to move and shoot....

better target that quad gun on the first turn then...

Just realized that anything that is T6 or T7 does not get an armor save from shariken catapults lol

Just find that funny for some reason.

Starting from scratch and I'm going to pick up a Battleforce box... think it's worth buying the old one or the new one based on what we know?

It's not a lot different in price, but I'm leaning towards the new box for the Vyper since it will fit a fast attack slot.

Any thoughts on how the Eldar flyers compare with the Dark Eldar ones? Vector Dancer is a big plus, helping you keep it on the board longer and get more rear armor shots. On the other hand, they seem to be a fair bit more expensive both points and cash-wise than the DE planes.

 CaptKaruthors wrote:

"Cinematic" seems to be the new GW codeword for removing ability to plan by making everything random.

Powers were randomly draw from a deck in 2nd edition. People managed fine.

It also makes no fluff sense:

Farseer: So Warlock, so that I may best assign you to serve our intricate plan, what powers have you learned in your many years of training?

Warlock: I don't know what I learned

Powers may be generated on a table, but then you get to assign your warlocks to units before deploying anyways so you will always be able to stick the warlocks where needed based on the powers they have.

Nope you assign warlocks prior to power generation, so the only thing you can gurantee is shrouding on your units.

 Sephyr wrote:
Any thoughts on how the Eldar flyers compare with the Dark Eldar ones? Vector Dancer is a big plus, helping you keep it on the board longer and get more rear armor shots. On the other hand, they seem to be a fair bit more expensive both points and cash-wise than the DE planes.

I think they are significantly better then the DE flyers. They are WAY more focused (a fighter that actually is designed to hunt other planes?!?! the heck you say!) and vector dancer is huge. They arent much more expensive either (only 15pts) for way better rules.

yeap with vector dancer you can actually stay at your board edge indefinitely (close to it i mean) and keep shooting

So Warlocks are utterly useless? How the **** can they muck that up :(

Im not too bothered about still having the old jetbikes - im actually glad they didnt re-do them because I have plenty of the current ones so its better for me to just keep them and use the new rules.

As for the anti flyer stuff, I wouldn't be bothered if a helldrake took out a few reapers behind an aegis line - id just be relieved that my now bs4 walkers and vypers with scatter lasers were around. Especially with guide/prescience, theyre fantastic anti air without the need for skyfire.

Actually, the thing im most looking forward to is the new codex and rules rather than new models. Warp spiders will also be great against flyers - they'll be s7 against vehicles and with their 6+2d6 movement and run/shoot, they'll be able to reach flyers from quite some distance away.

Does this include Pre-order's that are sent to GeeDubs?

GW stores have stock ready to sell you as well and any pre-orders sent to your local GW store should have arrived by now. I know my pre-ordered Eldar stuff is already sitting at my local GW store waiting for me to pick it up on Saturday.

https://www.facebook.com/GWBowie

 pizzaguardian wrote:

 CaptKaruthors wrote:

"Cinematic" seems to be the new GW codeword for removing ability to plan by making everything random.

Powers were randomly draw from a deck in 2nd edition. People managed fine.

It also makes no fluff sense:

Farseer: So Warlock, so that I may best assign you to serve our intricate plan, what powers have you learned in your many years of training?

Warlock: I don't know what I learned

Powers may be generated on a table, but then you get to assign your warlocks to units before deploying anyways so you will always be able to stick the warlocks where needed based on the powers they have.

Nope you assign warlocks prior to power generation, so the only thing you can gurantee is shrouding on your units.

If assignment and power generation both happen immediately after you generate your warlord trait, could it be argued that they occur at the same time, and thus the order is up to the player whose turn it is?

I don't play Eldar, so I don't have a vested interest one way or the other.

 shamikebab wrote:
So Warlocks are utterly useless? How the **** can they muck that up :(

Giving your guardians or JB's a 3+ cover 72% of the time is nothing to scoff at IMHO.

A seercouncil with it's commulutive buffs/debuffs has the potential to be pretty mean but I think the lack of a jet farseer hurts them the most actually.

@undertow

one can only wish but no, assignment says "immediately" after warlord traits and power generation is just after.

It is pretty much like force weapons and fnp

Warlocks splitting off to other units = Took too big of a hit. Having 1 randomized power makes them completely unreliable for a specialized force such as Eldar. Attaching a warlock biker to a unit of GJB jsut to find out he gets power 3, 5, or 6 would heartly piss me off. Yes, you could just stick with shrouding but that kinda defeats the purpose of the other powers.

That said, a 10 man unit jetbike seer council is now 500pts and will likely be 2+ armor, 3+ cover (2+ when full out), S/I/WS +1, and inflict a -1 armor. That has a lot of potential to be rediculously mean. Attach a new kitted farseer and autarch... it could be one hell of a deathstar.

The farseer odds on going Fortune however... that is pretty much my sadest point about the entire damn dex.

 BlueDagger wrote:
Warlocks splitting off to other units = Took too big of a hit. Having 1 randomized power makes them completely unreliable for a specialized force such as Eldar. Attaching a warlock biker to a unit of GJB jsut to find out he gets power 3, 5, or 6 would heartly piss me off. Yes, you could just stick with shrouding but that kinda defeats the purpose of the other powers.

That said, a 10 man unit jetbike seer council is now 500pts and will likely be 2+ armor, 3+ cover (2+ when full out), S/I/WS +1, and inflict a -1 armor. That has a lot of potential to be rediculously mean. Attach a new kitted farseer and autarch... it could be one hell of a deathstar.

The farseer odds on going Fortune however... that is pretty much my sadest point about the entire damn dex.

Have 2 farseers

 Popenfresh wrote:

 shamikebab wrote:
So Warlocks are utterly useless? How the **** can they muck that up :(

Giving your guardians or JB's a 3+ cover 72% of the time is nothing to scoff at IMHO.

A seercouncil with it's commulutive buffs/debuffs has the potential to be pretty mean but I think the lack of a jet farseer hurts them the most actually.

So is it that farseers cannot join units anymore? My understanding is the farseer can still take a jetbike in the new rules?

 pizzaguardian wrote:

 BlueDagger wrote:
Warlocks splitting off to other units = Took too big of a hit. Having 1 randomized power makes them completely unreliable for a specialized force such as Eldar. Attaching a warlock biker to a unit of GJB jsut to find out he gets power 3, 5, or 6 would heartly piss me off. Yes, you could just stick with shrouding but that kinda defeats the purpose of the other powers.

That said, a 10 man unit jetbike seer council is now 500pts and will likely be 2+ armor, 3+ cover (2+ when full out), S/I/WS +1, and inflict a -1 armor. That has a lot of potential to be rediculously mean. Attach a new kitted farseer and autarch... it could be one hell of a deathstar.

The farseer odds on going Fortune however... that is pretty much my sadest point about the entire damn dex.

Have 2 farseers

Excuse me guys but you are running ahead of yourself, it says warlocks are assigned immediately after you roll Warlord traits. Rolling for warlord traits says before either player deploys they must each determine warlord traits and it says this is done specifically because some warlord traits affect deployment. Rolling psychic powers just says before either player deploys. How does that make it that Warlocks can't choose where to go?

If I'm not being clear my meaning is the book doesn't say powers have to be rolled after warlord traits and before deployment, it just says before deployment. So why can't you roll power, warlord traits, assign warlocks then deploy?

 pizzaguardian wrote:


Have 2 farseers

Kinda missing the point there. Went from 100% of the time having 2 fortunes available from a single model to maybe having it from one. Given on how much Eldar's survivability depends on a double save, the whole army just got a LOT squishier. I try to repress the memory the core issue of 6th psykers and it's "random is funz!" mentality. Fluff wise, it's just atrocious.

 BlueDagger wrote:

 pizzaguardian wrote:


Have 2 farseers

Kinda missing the point there. Went from 100% of the time having 2 fortunes available from a single model to maybe having it from one. Given on how much Eldar's survivability depends on a double save, the whole army just got a LOT squishier. I try to repress the memory the core issue of 6th psykers and it's "random is funz!" mentality. Fluff wise, it's just atrocious.

Yep, which is why they gave us 4 options for T6 troops, reduced the cost of EJB t4 3+ troops, and allow wave serpents to turn pens into glances.

 BlueDagger wrote:

 pizzaguardian wrote:


Have 2 farseers

Kinda missing the point there. Went from 100% of the time having 2 fortunes available from a single model to maybe having it from one. Given on how much Eldar's survivability depends on a double save, the whole army just got a LOT squishier. I try to repress the memory the core issue of 6th psykers and it's "random is funz!" mentality. Fluff wise, it's just atrocious.

OMG, their survivability does not DEPEND on it. Get over it. If you had to have this one power to win, how do other just as fragile armies win with out it. Tau , guard, Dark eldar and demons are a few T3 armies that dont need to re-roll their saves.

Marines don't any re-roll saves and they do just fine. Hell my orks do pretty good still and all they got is a 6+. Even with this all the new ignore cover weapons popping up.

Now you have to have to use a bit more tactics and have that random factor in your army like every one else, Any general can win with exactly what he wants, the great ones can win with whats given to them.

 Morathi's Darkest Sin wrote:
Well GW seems to be up on independent supply this time, Firestorm just mailed me to let me know my Codex, cards and spiritseer has been shipped.

Other independent retailers would disagree. Some have said allow 3 weeks to receive your orders.

 D6Damager wrote:

 BlueDagger wrote:

 pizzaguardian wrote:


Have 2 farseers

Kinda missing the point there. Went from 100% of the time having 2 fortunes available from a single model to maybe having it from one. Given on how much Eldar's survivability depends on a double save, the whole army just got a LOT squishier. I try to repress the memory the core issue of 6th psykers and it's "random is funz!" mentality. Fluff wise, it's just atrocious.

Yep, which is why they gave us 4 options for T6 troops, reduced the cost of EJB t4 3+ troops, and allow wave serpents to turn pens into glances.

4 options for T6 troops - All of which have crap for range, are still very point heavy, and are slow compare to the rest of the dex.
Reduced the cost of GJB - They removed the capabilities attached warlock, good luck with those moral tests
Wave Serpents can turn pens into glances - yep and they lost turning str 9/10 to s8 and melta protection. Serpent's are still suck anyhoo due to 6th ed transport limitations and melee fodder.