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Despite new difficulties and changes I am really looking forward to this codex! They've improved a lot of things, introduced new units and if nothing else got me motivated to paint up my army!

 Autarch Fiallathandirel wrote:

 BlueDagger wrote:


Old Serpent field rules = 7 shots for 1 pen
Old Serpent field rules w/ full out = 9 shots for 1 pen

New Serpent field rules = 5 shots for 1 pen, downgraded to glance
New Serpent field rules w/ holos = 6 shots for 1 pen, downgraded to glance
New Serpent field rules w/ holos and full out = 9 shots for 1 pen, downgraded to glance

However it's made a rather mute point by...

S4 melee attacks needed for a glance on a Wave Serpent = 7
S6 melee attacks needed for a glance or better on a Wave Serpent = 3


If someone is sitting back and getting shot at by a Wave Serpent then they are doing it wrong lol.

Exactly the chance of a pen is roughly 1.2% now when it used to be 11% with old wave serpent rules when flat out. Holo-fields and new 2+ ignore glance means you are not very likely to lose your 3HP wave serpent to a lascannons in a round of shooting, which allows the WS to do its job of transporting. An enemy would need 27 BS4 lascannons shots a turn to even glance 1 WS to death or 18 if it didn't flat out. For comparison a LR would be taken out in roughly 18 as well (going by loss of hullpoints) so that is pretty good if you ask me. LR AV 14 (3 to hit, 5 or 6 to strip a HP) and if you account for the fact a lucky pen could destroy said LR then the WS looks even better.

2+ ignore glance? It's a +2 to turn the pen to a glance, you don't' ignore it lol. To be honest, the shooting from lascannons weren't really an issue before the dex update. It's mass S6-8 fire that could down a serpent in shooting. the new field rules do little to help that because you're still going to get glanced down if you get swarm fired. The new holofields help a lot with that, but the loss of easy fortune counters that by a LONG shot. Ultimately, as i said, shooting isn't your worry it's loosing your 115+ transport to a basic dude in Melee.

35pt rhino getting blow up as it "does it's job as a transport" = cool, understandable
115pt+ serpent getting blown up as it "does it's job as a transport" = not so much

Question regarding the Hawks Sunrifle and the blind rule...

As it has 3 shots, does the target need to take up to 3 initiative test or be blinded? Or is it just 1 initiative test no matter how many hits?

 S'jet wrote:
Question regarding the Hawks Sunrifle and the blind rule...

As it has 3 shots, does the target need to take up to 3 initiative test or be blinded? Or is it just 1 initiative test no matter how many hits?

1 test, otherwise it would be "for each hit". Were you hit by a shot with blinding? Yes = take a test. Were you hit by 3 shots with blinding? Yes = take a test.

BlueDagger wrote:

 Popenfresh wrote:
I don't know guy's... Individually locks may be subpar, but as a seer council? Maledictions and blessings are cumulative. With a bit of luck you'll have a unit with a 2++ save that can knock of 2 saving points from the enemy. Not to mention being able to reduce the enemy's strength ..., I wonder, if you reduce a terminator to str. 2, does that mean his fist hits at str. 4? I'm also curious if the 1+ str can be applied to armorbane? Then there's the potential to make them fearless, fast as hell and so on. Jetcouncils look dangerous as ever. And a footcouncils can be accompanied by a farseer, adding even more to the buffing/debuffing.

Seercouncils look like a very hard hitting, versatile, reasonably priced mini deathstar unit to me.

Incorrect. DIFFERENT blessing and maledictions are cumulative. You can't stack the same power.

This is not clear cut. Argument can be made for both sides.

pizzaguardian wrote:

 Autarch Fiallathandirel wrote:

 pizzaguardian wrote:

 BlueDagger wrote:
Warlocks splitting off to other units = Took too big of a hit. Having 1 randomized power makes them completely unreliable for a specialized force such as Eldar. Attaching a warlock biker to a unit of GJB jsut to find out he gets power 3, 5, or 6 would heartly piss me off. Yes, you could just stick with shrouding but that kinda defeats the purpose of the other powers.

That said, a 10 man unit jetbike seer council is now 500pts and will likely be 2+ armor, 3+ cover (2+ when full out), S/I/WS +1, and inflict a -1 armor. That has a lot of potential to be rediculously mean. Attach a new kitted farseer and autarch... it could be one hell of a deathstar.

The farseer odds on going Fortune however... that is pretty much my sadest point about the entire damn dex.

Have 2 farseers

Excuse me guys but you are running ahead of yourself, it says warlocks are assigned immediately after you roll Warlord traits. Rolling for warlord traits says before either player deploys they must each determine warlord traits and it says this is done specifically because some warlord traits affect deployment. Rolling psychic powers just says before either player deploys. How does that make it that Warlocks can't choose where to go?

If I'm not being clear my meaning is the book doesn't say powers have to be rolled after warlord traits and before deployment, it just says before deployment. So why can't you roll power, warlord traits, assign warlocks then deploy?

Dont follow the thread that hard i see?

Check the game summary page please, (pg 424 on brb - for the lıttle one ıt ıs rıght after psychıc dıscıplınes), it will show you why i am not running ahead of myself, in fact i rarely do any running at all.

That page is a game summary. I'd stick to what is said in the rules which is a bit ambiguos. Powers say "before either player deploys", traits say "before you deploy". How can I know when i'm supposed to deploy if i haven't rolled yet because i'm following the appendix? Imho I can't. To me that table seems to contradict the rulebook.

pizzaguardian wrote:i don't think it is an oversight, it could have just been written as " assaign them immediately after rolling for psychic powers".

Even if it will be faq'ed it will be faq'ed the way i say it, since there is even precedence for the exact wording conflict with force weapons and feel no pain.

GW is well known to be unable to write properly. They remind obvious things and forget to specify something else. Precedences might be important but they are not evidence.

shade1313 wrote:

 Dakkafang Dreggrim wrote:


In the case of the Jetbike you all keep complaining about and aspect warriors. Why would people RE-BUY units they all ready have ?

I don't know, why do I have three generations of Banshee models? Or two of Scorpions (the buck toothed ones were just...no)? Why have I got every Farseer they've made since I got into the hobby, and buying the new one, too? Or two generations of Rangers?

Very few will go out and get the most updated models. Yes there will be some die hard fans, but not everyone has the extra spending money to buy a new looking model that has no new rules just a new look.

Eldarcannon wrote:

BlueDagger wrote:

 Popenfresh wrote:
I don't know guy's... Individually locks may be subpar, but as a seer council? Maledictions and blessings are cumulative. With a bit of luck you'll have a unit with a 2++ save that can knock of 2 saving points from the enemy. Not to mention being able to reduce the enemy's strength ..., I wonder, if you reduce a terminator to str. 2, does that mean his fist hits at str. 4? I'm also curious if the 1+ str can be applied to armorbane? Then there's the potential to make them fearless, fast as hell and so on. Jetcouncils look dangerous as ever. And a footcouncils can be accompanied by a farseer, adding even more to the buffing/debuffing.

Seercouncils look like a very hard hitting, versatile, reasonably priced mini deathstar unit to me.

Incorrect. DIFFERENT blessing and maledictions are cumulative. You can't stack the same power.

This is not clear cut. Argument can be made for both sides.

Once again, people reading what they want to. What purpose would there be to put in the line "different maledictions" when every malediction would "different" by the counterpoint's logic? If that was the intend they would have simply stated Maledictions stack without the word different.

The target is currently effected by enfeeble? Yes
Are you casting the Malediction enfeeble? Yes? Is that a "different malediction"? No. Is that a different casting of the same malediction? Yes. Stacks? No.

However, pointless debating it because it's YMDC lol. I'd however like to see the look on your TO's face when you tell him you are stacking -1 armor on a paladin unit 4 times because you are casting "different maledictions".

 BlueDagger wrote:


2+ ignore glance? It's a +2 to turn the pen to a glance, you don't' ignore it lol. To be honest, the shooting from lascannons weren't really an issue before the dex update. It's mass S6-8 fire that could down a serpent in shooting. the new field rules do little to help that because you're still going to get glanced down if you get swarm fired. The new holofields help a lot with that, but the loss of easy fortune counters that by a LONG shot. Ultimately, as i said, shooting isn't your worry it's loosing your 115+ transport to a basic dude in Melee.

35pt rhino getting blow up as it "does it's job as a transport" = cool, understandable
115pt+ serpent getting blown up as it "does it's job as a transport" = not so much

Oops sorry I meant pen not glance , I can see your concern with the thought of losing such a high cost transport but what else are they going to do with the WS. It's fast enough to avoid melee, av 12 front and side will keep you from feeling the pain from most str6 and below weapons. If your enemy wants to put his expensive str 8 shots into it he can go ahead he's not likely to take it out and it likely won't suffer any loss of weaponry or immobilisation before it is completely hull point stripped so it will at the least get your unit to where they want to go, for the price they could have added in the assault vehicle rule, besides that one thing I think the WS is great.

And lets be honest in this edition of the game rhinos are just easy first blood, most games I see if there are less than 3 they are all popped by the end of turn 2.

Less than 3 all dead by the end of turn 2? I should hope so, if an army could not kill 1 rhino per turn something would be horribly wrong.

Agreed on the first blood thing, though there are armies with worse targets for that, just look at any army with front or side AV10 on a vehicle.

 Autarch Fiallathandirel wrote:
It's fast enough to avoid melee

It's not terribly uncommon to be faced with several units with 30" potential assault threat radius nowadays. Hell even we got a 9" tall 6 Wound jump troop on a massive base that could cut an opposing WS in half by sneezing on it in melee. if it's a pure shooty force then yes you'll have the upper hand, but most people I use to play in tournies knew how to corral Eldar vehicles.

"Before the battle, immediately after determining Warlord traits,any Warlock int he council may be split off from the unit and join blah blah blah."

That's the specific wording. It's not ambiguous.

Well I just got home and have the Eldar Codex. Any questions?
I'm taking a shower and will be back to answer some if there are any.

Warlock traits or Warlord traits?

Edit: nvm must have been a typo thats been corrected Sad for warlocks

 BlueDagger wrote:


That is the typical 40k "reading what I want to" mentality. What purpose would the line "Note that bonuses and penalties from different maledictions are always cumulative..." be if it meant that different castings of the same power stack. You can't cast 2 powers at once and you can't cast the same power twice, so it's only possible intention is to state that different maledictions will stack and same ones do not.

This is how I'd respond to this:

Oxford Dictionaries wrote:
1) used to refer to a person or thing that is different or distinct from one already mentioned or known about:

This is the first definition of "different" given by Oxford Dictionaries. As you can see, this doesn't really clarify the issue, as you could argue that the same malediction wasn't "distinct" from one already cast. However, you could argue it was too.

Oxford Dicionaries wrote:
2) further; additional:

Note the word additional. This shows, I would say, that different (read: additional) Maledictions do stack.

I would argue that yes, Maledictions do stack on themselves.


It's an ongoing debate, let's all be nice and keep to our rumours now :3

Iranna.

 Dakkafang Dreggrim wrote:

shade1313 wrote:

 Dakkafang Dreggrim wrote:


In the case of the Jetbike you all keep complaining about and aspect warriors. Why would people RE-BUY units they all ready have ?

I don't know, why do I have three generations of Banshee models? Or two of Scorpions (the buck toothed ones were just...no)? Why have I got every Farseer they've made since I got into the hobby, and buying the new one, too? Or two generations of Rangers?

Very few will go out and get the most updated models. Yes there will be some die hard fans, but not everyone has the extra spending money to buy a new looking model that has no new rules just a new look.

Your reasoning is based on anecdotal evidence and supposition, at best.

 Melcavuk wrote:
Warlock traits or Warlord traits?

Edit: nvm must have been a typo thats been corrected Sad for warlocks

I was repeating the sentence in my head when typing. I'm surprised I got 3 words in a row right

 The Spiritseer wrote:
Well I just got home and have the Eldar Codex. Any questions?
I'm taking a shower and will be back to answer some if there are any.

Upgrade cost and other stuff on the planes (like the exarch upgrade) and what does the bomb do ?

Thank you

 The Spiritseer wrote:
Well I just got home and have the Eldar Codex. Any questions?
I'm taking a shower and will be back to answer some if there are any.

For everyone here can you just tell us what banshees are actually like now? Will they really be charging into cover at I1 and hitting at the same time as the enemy unit? Also is acrobatic +3 inches running or counter attack as it used to be?

Is there a piece of fluff where the Avatar doesn't get worfed?!

 Popenfresh wrote:
Is there a piece of fluff where the Avatar doesn't get worfed?!

No.

Iranna.

Nvs wrote:
"Before the battle, immediately after determining Warlord traits,any Warlock int he council may be split off from the unit and join blah blah blah."

That's the specific wording. It's not ambiguous.

And the specific wording in the Psychic Powers sections says:

"Before either player deploys their army, you must generate psychic powers for your Psykers."

The summary might contradict that, but I'm more inclined to believe that the actual rules in the powers sections is more authoritative.

At best this question is a grey area, and will be until a FAQ shows up.

 undertow wrote:

Nvs wrote:
"Before the battle, immediately after determining Warlord traits,any Warlock int he council may be split off from the unit and join blah blah blah."

That's the specific wording. It's not ambiguous.

And the specific wording in the Psychic Powers sections says:

"Before either player deploys their army, you must generate psychic powers for your Psykers."

The summary might contradict that, but I'm more inclined to believe that the actual rules in the powers sections is more authoritative.

At best this question is a grey area, and will be until a FAQ shows up.

No summary doesn't contrradict that. There is no contradiction, the summary section does show it before deployment as well just more specific.

Autarch Fiallathandirel wrote:

 The Spiritseer wrote:
Well I just got home and have the Eldar Codex. Any questions?
I'm taking a shower and will be back to answer some if there are any.

For everyone here can you just tell us what banshees are actually like now? Will they really be charging into cover at I1 and hitting at the same time as the enemy unit? Also is acrobatic +3 inches running or counter attack as it used to be?

Yeah they are pretty terrible unfortunately. The mask now reduces I by 5, but since they don't have grenades it means that if they are assaulting into cover they are going to be going at the same time as the enemy (which is obviously bad for your 4+ save guys). Acrobatic is +3 to run moves, but only if the entire unit had the rule (so no Seers etc).

pizzaguardian wrote:

 The Spiritseer wrote:
Well I just got home and have the Eldar Codex. Any questions?
I'm taking a shower and will be back to answer some if there are any.

Upgrade cost and other stuff on the planes (like the exarch upgrade) and what does the bomb do ?

Thank you

There is no bomb on either of the planes so to speak. The 'bomber' (Wraithfighter), is 180pts from memory, is a psyker and always has the Terrify psychic power, it has 2 S4 AP2 18" range Small Blasts and forces all morale tests within 12" to be re-rolled (friendly included). Can combo nicely with one of the Warlock powers which drops enemy Ld by 3. The fighter has 2 Bright Lances and a Pulse Laser, BS4 base and re-rolls to pen against other fliers, 160pts base and 20 odd to upgrade to Exarch (BS5 and Precision). Both planes are AV10 all round with no access to any of the vehicle upgrades (so no Holos for 4+ jink saves). Essentially they hit like trucks but are going to die horribly as soon as they get shot, if you go flier heavy you are going to need an Autarch/Comms relay/Scryers Gaze psychic power to ensure they arrive after other fliers. They can avoid Drakes and Quad Guns for a turn thanks to Vector Dancer and do have the firepower to drop most fliers in a single pass, but will struggle against superior numbers.

@Iranna - LOL *facepalm* Additional =/= Different. Synonyms are words with the same or similar meanings. in this case they are similar, but certainly not the same.

@generating powers - The key there is "immediately after determining warlord traits".

------
Warlord traits

In the middle here is generating powers and assigning warlocks to units. However the assignment to units states that it happens immediately after the warlord traits.

Deployment
-----


What it comes down to is if you can generate powers AS you are deploying the warlocks. Otherwise the assignment comes first.

 Autarch Fiallathandirel wrote:

 The Spiritseer wrote:
Well I just got home and have the Eldar Codex. Any questions?
I'm taking a shower and will be back to answer some if there are any.

For everyone here can you just tell us what banshees are actually like now? Will they really be charging into cover at I1 and hitting at the same time as the enemy unit? Also is acrobatic +3 inches running or counter attack as it used to be?

They cost 1 point less each base.
Banshe Masks lower opponent Inititative by 5 (to a minimum of 1).
Acrobatic is just for running. But it comes standard, it isn't an Exarch Power.

 BlueDagger wrote:
@Iranna - LOL *facepalm* Additional =/= Different. Synonyms are words with the same or similar meanings. in this case they are similar, but certainly not the same.

It wasn't a synonym, it was the second entry under the word "different".

Iranna.

Is the mask's effect like a lash whip and requires B2B contact with a bearing model to effect them? I could see some use for the unit as a debuff for counter chargers, but outside of that... they really are outclassed by other options.

 BlueDagger wrote:
Is the mask's effect like a lash whip and requires B2B contact with a bearing model to effect them? I could see some use for the unit as a debuff for counter chargers, but outside of that... they really are outclassed by other options.

No. Text:
"When one or more models with a Banshee Mask charge into combat, all enemy models in the combat suffer -5 to their Initiative (to a minimum of 1) until the end of that phase."

Yep that is their use then. They are a support assault unit now sadly. Keep a min pack of 5 nearby as a counter assault. Assault with the banshees first, then sweep in with you hard hitters so they benefit from the banshee debuff.

That said, they are terrible. The vast majority of the time your CC specialists will have a higher Int even without the debuff.

Random tidbit from the Codex: Prince Yriel's Curse rule now makes him reroll saves of 6 in CC instead of the auto wound.