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Is there an official post about them closing appear in the last few hours ?

Havent seen anything confirming it.

I think the event that lead to MG's demise was probably the GW rest of world embargo. It just moved purchasing from those areas away from Maelstrom and onto ebay.

When times were good, Maelstrom was great. When times got tough, they got really bad.

Local stores seem to survive or fail more on what they do than on what an online discounter does. For example, one local store uses the Warstore as a distributor and tells people that they can get anything that's on the Warstore's website. Only they don't discount. And people still do tons of special orders through the local store. Why wouldn't they just order from the Warstore directly and save money? The store offers good gaming space, terrain, organized events, great customer service, etc.,. There's actually value added there that no online discounter can touch.

Valiant wrote:

Is there an official post about them closing appear in the last few hours ?

Havent seen anything confirming it.

There is nothing on the bankruptcy register that says they have gone bankrupt, it is the weekend though

"Maelstrom Games has closed down."
http://www.facebook.com/pages/North-Star-Military-Figures/218634441498799

Hear say until it is confirmed via offical channels

I hope for their sake they are closing down because if by some chance they wasnt they will have no respect or good will left in the war gaming community!

I think part of the issue probably stems from the free postage and the fact the model seemed to be based on making money of the large orders, including those international ones that GW clamped down on.

If you look at a blister with an RRP of 12.50, the cost to Maelstrom pre-vat would be £6.77 their vat registered so they can claim the vat back, but still have to charge it on the sale.

So they discount 10% selling it for £11.25, vat of £1.85, so their profit margin before postage, packaging, labor, etc, is 9.4-6.77 = 2.63

Now to post a blister in the uk 2nd class packet rate, with franked mail discount is £2.20

So that leaves them £0.43 to cover labor, profit, packing materials etc.

Now my maths is only approximate on the vat side, but you can see that as a store offering free postage on small orders is risky, and this was just a 10% discount, they frequently ran 16-18.

I guess the model they were aiming for was based on large orders, but i know alot of people that would use them just to pick up a blister or 2 because of the free postage.

MarkyMark wrote:

Valiant wrote:

Is there an official post about them closing appear in the last few hours ?

Havent seen anything confirming it.

There is nothing on the bankruptcy register that says they have gone bankrupt, it is the weekend though

They won't show up on there as a limited co (I'm guessing you mean the insolvency service) Need to check companys house, which takes forever to be changed, or the london gazette. If they went on Friday It may be in Mondays issue.

I suspect they have gone. They are showing all the signs. I am not working Monday so I may do a bit of digging.

 notprop wrote:
EotS was a continuation of the MG registration if that continues to be the case then it's quite possible that the administrators will want to loo at taking possession of anything and everything on those premises (so don't leave anything here and label it as yours).

I understood it to now be under another name rather than EotS.

Maunsfield Gaming operating as Eye of the Storm.

This is very sad news.
It was the 1st time I ordered something from them.
And paypal could help me get my money back?
I live in the Netherlands.

I really hope I can get it back, I have to save 6 months in order to buy a small box of miniatures due to my sickness :(

imrail wrote:

And paypal could help me get my money back?
I live in the Netherlands.

PayPal should almost certainly refund your money depending on how long ago your order was.

Log in to your PayPal Account and raise a DISPUTE, then immediately escalate to a CLAIM.

You have to lodge a Dispute within 45 days of making the payment, and and then escalate that to a Claim within 20 days of raising the Dispute - but in this case just escalate immediately.

I don't imagine it should take too long.

I ordered from Maelstrom on 20th September not realising they were in trouble, lodged a Dispute on 23rd October (STILL not realising they were in trouble BTW) which I immediately escalated to a Claim.

The last time I did this (with another company) the company responded within 24 hours (they don't like to lose their PayPal facility I suspect).

In this case when I checked the Resolution Centre on my PayPal acount they were still waiting for a reply from Maelstrom which is when I started digging and immediately found out the issues.

I got my money back into my PayPal account yesterday - literally minutes after the cut-off point for the company to respond (which obviously they wouldn't have!)

I suppose I should have got suspicious when I couldn't get an answer on the phone or an e-mail reply from Maelstrom - but as I kept getting e-mails from Maelstrom about their warehouse move I initially asumed it was just an organisational thing, (and I'd had stuff from them before) - not that they were running a ponzi scheme.

Rob Lane and Eye of the Storm can forget about EVER getting my custom.

FWIW I have now amended my purchasing rules:

Anything over £100 - its on the Credit (not Debit) Card - UK Section 75 protection (which I have used in the past with total success)

Anything under £100 - Credit Card or PayPal

Cash only if I have the goods in my hand

Cheques - never

Debit Card - never

Goods not with me in 28 days - automatically request a refund within 7 days - no answer then raise a PayPal Dispute or Contact my Credit Card company.

Also I now check the internet for rumours before buying from any company!

That will be a problem, I ordered it on September 1st.
I made a dispute and escalated it to a claim, but it says the claim is closed.
And I can't make a new dispute.
Bummer :(

Anyway, thanks Vorlon25!

And to be clear EOTS is actually the same company?

imrail wrote:

Bummer :(

And to be clear EOTS is actually the same company?

Not exactly - it's a "new" company legally - but with the same people in the same building with the same phone number (iirc) and probably the same stock including the items you paid for.

I suspect some people have already referred them to Trading Standards because if it can be shown they were continuing to take money for items they knew they couldn't deliver I think that's fraud (any lawyers here?)

You might still be able to get your money back - it depends on how you transfer funds into your PayPal account as that is just a conduit for the funds so you might still be able to claim via your bank/credit card company - but I'm afraid I know even less about Dutch consumer protection than I do about the UK!!

EOTS isn't the same company. But it's run by the same people, in the same location, using the same online shop but with a different name.

Vorlon25 wrote:

imrail wrote:

And paypal could help me get my money back?
I live in the Netherlands.

PayPal should almost certainly refund your money depending on how long ago your order was.

Not 100% true I'm afraid. If the company has gone in to administration paypal will be unable to recover the money and will become a creditor. As I don't have a paypal account I don't know exactly what there T&Cs say about administration/insolvency, but from what I have read if they can't get the money they won't pay you.

Check the T&Cs and put a claim in ASAP!

imrail wrote:
That will be a problem, I ordered it on September 1st.
I made a dispute and escalated it to a claim, but it says the claim is closed.
And I can't make a new dispute.
Bummer :(

Anyway, thanks Vorlon25!

And to be clear EOTS is actually the same company?

You can also try directling contacting your Bank and try them to charge Maelstrom back.

Hi there,
This is the first time I am posting but have been following everyone's comments since Sept this year on this blog.

Firstly I would like to say that if it was not for Maelstorm (MS) commenting about their negative press at the start of one of their discount offer emails (FoW @ 20% off) a few weeks ago, I would not have even looked at this site and would not have ralised the issues that have been plaguing everyone. I only discovered MS this year when I got into FoW and placed a few orders to test them out. During this time, I made to large orders (>300 pounds each time). It was only after the second large order that I read what is being listed in this forum.
I
Anyway to the point, both orders have taken longer than expected (>6 weeks). First package arrived with a couple of blister packs opened but otherwise complete. They sent replacements within 2 weeks which I was surprised. This was the reason for placing the second big order. After placing this and seeing all the negative comments, followed but all the discount offers, I was tempted several time to cash in but elected not to. I did not think the discounts justified the risk of placing further order with them.

Although I do not agree with the method/way in which MS has handled this whole affair and with this many disgrunted customers, they should have nipped this in the butt before it has become what it has with a lot of loyal customers swearing them off in the future. As the week dragged on, I was concerned about my order. 2 weeks ago, received 90% of my shipment with the last 10% advised as being out of stock. The last 10% finally arrived this friday. Why I am say this is that, yes, there are a lot of bad practices or examples of non delivery by MS but also felt a need to to list a few good or fortunate stories to offer a balanced view for MS. It is not to justify or condone their customer service these trying weeks but to hopefully say that there is still the very small chance they will still come good.

We all have some other war stroies but seems MS is at the forefront at this time. Had similar bad delivery experiences with Wayland Games (over 6 weeks and limited feedback into status) and no communication as to what is the status of out of stock items. However Wayland (so far) has sent thru all my orders like MS and eventually refunded me out of stock items even though it was not communicated. Really trying to say that internet sale companies are bad with communication because it is always so easy to send off emails but it takes a lot of time to read them so replies are often slow or lacking.

Anyway, with all this rambling, just want to say I hope the best for everyone and hope MS makes good their commitment. I only suggest everyone be cautions with internet sale companies in the future, no matter how good they have been in the past. Circumstances change any maybe the best is to spread your risk with different stores or drop into a physical store.

SeanDrake wrote:

"Maelstrom Games has closed down."
http://www.facebook.com/pages/North-Star-Military-Figures/218634441498799

Taken from a post on warseer but that is another of there suppliers who states he has been advised by maelstrom that they are closed.

 Kroothawk wrote:

 Pacific wrote:
Real blow to the wargaming industry here in the UK
... this loss will cost every retailer in the industry.

Are we talking about the same Maelstrom that drove numerous retailers into bancruptcy with dumping prices supported by crazy exchange rates? I think it is realistic to say that thousands of FLGSs worldwide will profit from Maelstrom's demise.

What do you mean mate? If you are referring to Maelstrom being able to undercut local FLGS in Aus was more to do with GW sticking to out of date exchange rates, and hence why now people in that part of the world are sold for more than double the price of the UK. If GW sold their minis in Aus at a rate that was comparable to the UK, and in fact behave as every other wargaming manufacturer does, then they wouldn't have had a problem. And their discounts weren't really anything more than those offered by a dozen other wargaming retailers that you could mention.

I think the event that lead to MG's demise was probably the GW rest of world embargo. It just moved purchasing from those areas away from Maelstrom and onto ebay.

I've heard it was more to do with too much money being taken out of the company. Then, when you hit a bad time economically or have a big expenditure, things rapidly go south.

There are a couple of online retailers who don't even sell GW mail order any more, because they can't cope with the number of Finecast returns - Dark Sphere most recently, but also Wayland for a time. The bigger retailers probably have enough depth of field that the GW embargo might have hurt them a bit, but not mortally wounded.

Steve steveson wrote:

Vorlon25 wrote:

imrail wrote:

And paypal could help me get my money back?
I live in the Netherlands.

PayPal should almost certainly refund your money depending on how long ago your order was.

Not 100% true I'm afraid. If the company has gone in to administration paypal will be unable to recover the money and will become a creditor. As I don't have a paypal account I don't know exactly what there T&Cs say about administration/insolvency, but from what I have read if they can't get the money they won't pay you.

Check the T&Cs and put a claim in ASAP!

From my experience, you do still get your money back from paypal even if the seller has no credit, the offenders paypal balance can go into the negative in such circumstances.
So you should still be good to get your money back from paypal is its a legal claim.

 Pacific wrote:

 Kroothawk wrote:

 Pacific wrote:
Real blow to the wargaming industry here in the UK
... this loss will cost every retailer in the industry.

Are we talking about the same Maelstrom that drove numerous retailers into bancruptcy with dumping prices supported by crazy exchange rates? I think it is realistic to say that thousands of FLGSs worldwide will profit from Maelstrom's demise.

What do you mean mate? If you are referring to Maelstrom being able to undercut local FLGS in Aus was more to do with GW sticking to out of date exchange rates, and hence why now people in that part of the world are sold for more than double the price of the UK. If GW sold their minis in Aus at a rate that was comparable to the UK, and in fact behave as every other wargaming manufacturer does, then they wouldn't have had a problem. And their discounts weren't really anything more than those offered by a dozen other wargaming retailers that you could mention.

He's going on and on again about the 17% and 20% off sales. While they may have been common enough (every few months) what he doesn't really seem to understand is that even UKRRP (without 10% off) is significantly cheaper than GWAU prices, so if you wanted something, you really didn't bother waiting for the next sale to roll around for GW product. Most other stuff is also somewhat gougey in Australian retail, so I still buy most things from overseas, with the exception of stuff I can get from a local internet discounter, which works well for heavy stuff like FFG boxed games and even a good chunk of FoW - prices comparable enough to UK 10% retailers.

I've send an email to PayPal asking for guidance on how to continue.

I'll call my bank tomorrow to see if they can help me.

And I'll let you know if anything happens.
Thanks again people!

imrail wrote:
I've send an email to PayPal asking for guidance on how to continue.

I'll call my bank tomorrow to see if they can help me.

And I'll let you know if anything happens.
Thanks again people!

No problem, I for one know that money is hard to come by and losing it because someone else scammed you is sad.

 Rayvon wrote:

Steve steveson wrote:

Vorlon25 wrote:

imrail wrote:

And paypal could help me get my money back?
I live in the Netherlands.

PayPal should almost certainly refund your money depending on how long ago your order was.

Not 100% true I'm afraid. If the company has gone in to administration paypal will be unable to recover the money and will become a creditor. As I don't have a paypal account I don't know exactly what there T&Cs say about administration/insolvency, but from what I have read if they can't get the money they won't pay you.

Check the T&Cs and put a claim in ASAP!

From my experience, you do still get your money back from paypal even if the seller has no credit, the offenders paypal balance can go into the negative in such circumstances.
So you should still be good to get your money back from paypal is its a legal claim.

But if they go in to administration paypal will not be to take the money back, and the problem is that paypal won't pay out if they don't think they can get the money. They won't willingly take the loss according to what people have said about them not being willing to hand back money elsewhere (i can only asume that this has been when paypal have felt they would never be able to recover a balance).

Someone in administration is very diffrent to someone with a negative paypal balance. There T&Cs don't seem to say much about it, but I would guess that it might be very difficult. Make sure if your putting a claim in you put it in ASAP. They may not go under, but it dosn't look good.

Steve steveson wrote:

 Rayvon wrote:

Steve steveson wrote:

Vorlon25 wrote:

imrail wrote:

And paypal could help me get my money back?
I live in the Netherlands.

PayPal should almost certainly refund your money depending on how long ago your order was.

Not 100% true I'm afraid. If the company has gone in to administration paypal will be unable to recover the money and will become a creditor. As I don't have a paypal account I don't know exactly what there T&Cs say about administration/insolvency, but from what I have read if they can't get the money they won't pay you.

Check the T&Cs and put a claim in ASAP!

From my experience, you do still get your money back from paypal even if the seller has no credit, the offenders paypal balance can go into the negative in such circumstances.
So you should still be good to get your money back from paypal is its a legal claim.

But if they go in to administration paypal will not be to take the money back, and the problem is that paypal won't pay out if they don't think they can get the money. They won't willingly take the loss according to what people have said about them not being willing to hand back money elsewhere (i can only asume that this has been when paypal have felt they would never be able to recover a balance).

Someone in administration is very diffrent to someone with a negative paypal balance. There T&Cs don't seem to say much about it, but I would guess that it might be very difficult. Make sure if your putting a claim in you put it in ASAP. They may not go under, but it dosn't look good.

Actually Paypal changed the buyer guarantee, they do cover all buyers who go via their system, i suspect theu either have new insurance to cover it, or they just work on the basis that they make so much on the commission payments they can cover the losses of the small number of companies that go under.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
For reference (btw this for uk paypal, it may or may not differ depending on the country your account is held in)

How am I covered by PayPal's Buyer Protection?
If you pay for an item using PayPal and you have a problem with your purchase, we will help to protect you. If you pay for an item through PayPal and you have a problem with your purchase we will look to cover you for the full amount (including postage) in the event that:

• You don’t receive the item
• You receive an item but it is significantly different than the description

Valiant wrote:


Actually Paypal changed the buyer guarantee, they do cover all buyers who go via their system, i suspect theu either have new insurance to cover it, or they just work on the basis that they make so much on the commission payments they can cover the losses of the small number of companies that go under.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
For reference (btw this for uk paypal, it may or may not differ depending on the country your account is held in)

How am I covered by PayPal's Buyer Protection?
If you pay for an item using PayPal and you have a problem with your purchase, we will help to protect you. If you pay for an item through PayPal and you have a problem with your purchase we will look to cover you for the full amount (including postage) in the event that:

• You don’t receive the item
• You receive an item but it is significantly different than the description

Ah good. Glad to hear it! They are no longer syaing "we are just a processing agent" like they used to. I wonder if this is anything to do with the criticism they were getting for acting like a bank without being regulated as a bank...

SoulDrinker wrote:

Piranha wrote:
I did ordered the new Infinity book in the end of August. So far no news from them ... !!!



luckily the distributor sent extras out to other shops in the UK - so if you're fast you can probably still grab the Ltd Edition mini as well. I've heard there should be some at the Warfare show in Reading



Dude has a Bulgarian flaggy, so somehow the chances seem small that he will be making the trip to the Warfare show in Reading

I did ordered the book with limited edition miniature again from Wayland and I will have it soon in my hands. Not sure about the money that gave to Maelstriom tought.

Going to my bank after uni tomorrow, couldnt get through to the right person over the phone so might aswell go down. It just really annoys me knowing that nothing can be done to them or that its not even them giving me my money back. Scum.

I'm not going to believe anything until Maelstrom Games comes out an makes an official statement.

 Far Seer wrote:
I'm not going to believe anything until Maelstrom Games comes out an makes an official statement.

Have you read none of this thread? Not even the last page? Really.

Maelstrom Games have closed, shut down, are no more.

The owners / creditors have registered a new webstore 'Eye of the Storm'.

I contacted my bank last week and I made a claim of my money back. Hope that it wasn't too late ...