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Hi I was just wondering what would be best for an ork army now either shootas or sluggas, since the nerf to furious charge and models from the front are sluggas worth taking now? Or are they still good but just not as good, many thanks

Salamandermarine

Edit: also any combos to help either would be greatly appreciated too.

6th is way more shooting phrase orientated, I'd go with mobs of 30 shootas and 3 big shootas. Nobz are not as an auto-include as they once were, they're still really good in combat but I think if you want shooty blobs then you can leave them at home

Shootas are the go-to version of Boyz now. There's not nearly as much reason to take Sluggas. I'd still say Nobz are useful. 35pt Nob with a Power Klaw is always a welcome addition, and taking away a couple Shoota shots isn't going to make a huge different.

Yup, definitely shootas these days. Not many people would want to charge a unit of 30 shoota boyz including 3 big shootas with the new overwatch rule

Ok thanks for the feedback guys, much appreciated.

Hold up.

Don't abandon ship yet.

I've still been using slugga boyz and they work even better now with proper placement.

My trick is to spread them out really hard so when melee comes I lose whatever boyz I lose and then on my pile in, I can't reach melee, just ending combat, still being fearless, and then charging the sorry saps next turn. It's been amazing, I'm getting more attacks than I use to it seems.

Fair enough nice to see both sides and they do seem quite nice I must admit, play-testing seems the best option.

kenshin620 wrote:Nobz are not as an auto-include as they once were, they're still really good in combat but I think if you want shooty blobs then you can leave them at home

Would you care to elaborate how you came to that conclusion?

"Shooty" orks still pretty much tear apart any non-melee experts in close combat. Standing still and shooting is a waste of potential.

I really don't see much use for slugga boyz any more though. Between overwatch, no more running into close combat and snap-fire the gap has widened enough to make shootaz better than sluggas all around. unless you're sticking them in trukks, of course.

I wouldnt say Furious charge was nerfed on our part, maybe for other armies but not Orks. We pretty much go last anyways, so it pretty much didnt affect us . As long as they kept the +1 STR I didnt care


And yea, Ive been running shooty Orks pretty much since the get go, and they do really well all around. They not only pump out a metric crap ton of bullets, but they can still get a staggering number of attacks out. A perfect set up, my x20 mobz get 36 shootas 9 bigshootas and then 57 boyz attacks with 4 PK attacks on the charge. Thats pretty damn impressive if you ask me. Whatever your going after, IS going to feel that

KingCracker wrote:I wouldnt say Furious charge was nerfed on our part, maybe for other armies but not Orks. We pretty much go last anyways, so it pretty much didnt affect us . As long as they kept the +1 STR I didnt care


And yea, Ive been running shooty Orks pretty much since the get go, and they do really well all around. They not only pump out a metric crap ton of bullets, but they can still get a staggering number of attacks out. A perfect set up, my x20 mobz get 36 shootas 9 bigshootas and then 57 boyz attacks with 4 PK attacks on the charge. Thats pretty damn impressive if you ask me. Whatever your going after, IS going to feel that

The only issue here is that casualties MUST be taken from the front - so you will be widening that gap for assault. I doubt it will make an impact often, but it's something to consider.

KingCracker wrote:I wouldnt say Furious charge was nerfed on our part, maybe for other armies but not Orks. We pretty much go last anyways, so it pretty much didnt affect us . As long as they kept the +1 STR I didnt care

I would disagree with that. I fight necrons and IG quite often, and against those going at I2 rather than I3 really hurts. Especially against large guard blobs.

And I can argue, that Im still right, because I almost NEVER fight against IG and Necrons, so by that reasoning Im not nerfed by the new furious charge rules

Well, that +1 I did hurt nobz and the boss. They're initiative 3, and that was a huge deal for my big choppa nobz in a nob squad. Whereas before they'd get to swing the same time as marines, now they're swinging after, and that can mean the difference between several big choppa attacks if one goes down before he gets to swing.

The other problem is with challenges and all that, if we had the +1 I still, we could throw a big choppa nob at a PW wielding sarge, and know that he's got a good chance of at least taking the marine with him, as opposed to now, where it doesn't matter much whether you threw a choppa or a klaw at him, because both are hitting afterwards (from a killiness point of view)

I've run large blocks of Shoota boyz for a while now. Most of my opponents field lots of infantry, and with the number of shots a full shoota boy squad dumps out it becomes fun to walk across the board going Dakka-dakka-dakka the whole way there.

Eventually I left the Nob out completely. I just had to be very careful about picking my fights.

MrMoustaffa wrote:Well, that +1 I did hurt nobz and the boss. They're initiative 3, and that was a huge deal for my big choppa nobz in a nob squad. Whereas before they'd get to swing the same time as marines, now they're swinging after, and that can mean the difference between several big choppa attacks if one goes down before he gets to swing.

The other problem is with challenges and all that, if we had the +1 I still, we could throw a big choppa nob at a PW wielding sarge, and know that he's got a good chance of at least taking the marine with him, as opposed to now, where it doesn't matter much whether you threw a choppa or a klaw at him, because both are hitting afterwards (from a killiness point of view)

I can only agree with it hurting nobz that dont have a PK. But again, PK Nobz or bosses, its no difference, because they ALWAYS were hitting at I1 anyways. And if you ran a Boss without a Klaw, you were doing something wrong.

It's also not like you'd lose a lot because of some space marine striking before your nobz. If 40 guardsmen strike before your boyz, you'll wonder where all your attacks have gone.

I would take more shootas than i would in 5th, but i would still take some sluggas

 KingCracker wrote:
And I can argue, that Im still right, because I almost NEVER fight against IG and Necrons, so by that reasoning Im not nerfed by the new furious charge rules

No one has took up the latest fad codex. wow.

At the very least in trukks sluggas are going to be the best choice. Trukks now being pretty good choice given the options.
Then I would not worry if you have AoBR guys, then sluggas and big shootas are not going to severely hurt your chances.

I don't understand why everyone says shootahs are so superior. Lets say your squad of 30 shootahs are charged by 10 marines...
Overwatch is 60 shots = 10 hits = 4 wounds = 1.3 dead marines (round down to 1)
Marines attack = 36 attacks = 18 hits = 9 wounds = 7.5 dead orcs.(round up to 8)
Orcs attack = 44 attacks = 22 hits = 7.3 wounds = 2.4 dead marines (round up to 3 since rounded down the overwatch).
so 4 dead marines total on the charge

Now the same squad is slugga boys
Overwatch is halved, so on average it's 0,65 dead marines charging (let's round down for fun and say none die)
marines kill the same 8 orks.
orks attack = 66 attacks = 33 hits = 11 wounds = 3.6 dead marines. (round up to 4 since we rounded down for overwatch)

So it's 4 dead marines for either shoota or slugga boys. However, from this point on the sluggahs will outperform shootahs if they are stuck in combat with them any longer.

This doesn't take into consideration nobs because those would be equivalent on both sides.

if your running shootas go with a mob of 30 to maximize overwatch. if your going with slugga boyz i would say mob of 20 in an open-topped battlewagon for the assault. or put a mob of 30 slugga boyz behind a mob of shoota boyz that are advancing forward

coreyzat wrote:
I don't understand why everyone says shootahs are so superior. Lets say your squad of 30 shootahs are charged by 10 marines...
Overwatch is 60 shots = 10 hits = 4 wounds = 1.3 dead marines (round down to 1)
Marines attack = 36 attacks = 18 hits = 9 wounds = 7.5 dead orcs.(round up to 8)
Orcs attack = 44 attacks = 22 hits = 7.3 wounds = 2.4 dead marines (round up to 3 since rounded down the overwatch).
so 4 dead marines total on the charge

Now the same squad is slugga boys
Overwatch is halved, so on average it's 0,65 dead marines charging (let's round down for fun and say none die)
marines kill the same 8 orks.
orks attack = 66 attacks = 33 hits = 11 wounds = 3.6 dead marines. (round up to 4 since we rounded down for overwatch)

So it's 4 dead marines for either shoota or slugga boys. However, from this point on the sluggahs will outperform shootahs if they are stuck in combat with them any longer.

This doesn't take into consideration nobs because those would be equivalent on both sides.

This isn't about math hammering out the assault turn. It is more about what is your best tactic when.
If you are death rollering, then you will want to shoot afterwards as you can not assault. More shots and better range are useful.
If the enemy has perched themselves at near 23'' to your foot slogging boyz as to fire at you last turn, you move 6'' up. You want run and let them back away, or can a round of shooting in.
Importantly would you rather go into the open without cover or wimp out and have a go shooting.

If anything is mathhammer assaults you'll find shoota and sluggas perform similar enough when charging, after which the nob is doing a fair proportion of the killing.

You're right in that shootah boys sometimes give you better tactical options, but I think people WAY overestimate the power of overwatch with shootah boys. I constantly hear about sitting on objectives and people being afraid to charge the shootahs. If you charge a squad of 30...ONE marine dies.

In my 1k army I'm running two squads of 19 sluggas each with a PK warboss leading them. Both are mounted in open-topped Battlewagons. Even though it's clearly mech-assault geared, I can still shoot quite a bit on the way there, and they'll more than likely need to babysit an objective every now and then, so would taking Shootas be better?

I mean sure the aforementioned Boyz are AoBR grunts, but I could always just slap bolters onto their thighs/backs and switch between the two armaments inbetween games.

Got to say, since trying them against my Tau playing friend the other night, I am a convert to the Shoota Boy way of life!

Watching his face as I rolled 60 shots was priceless!

corey3977 wrote:
Got to say, since trying them against my Tau playing friend the other night, I am a convert to the Shoota Boy way of life!

Watching his face as I rolled 60 shots was priceless!

shoota boyz have been massacring everything in sight! for me. with just the shooting alone i wipe an entire full marine squad and still had time to wait for an overwatch after... ya know if they didn't all die then.

coreyzat wrote:
I don't understand why everyone says shootahs are so superior. Lets say your squad of 30 shootahs are charged by 10 marines...
Overwatch is 60 shots = 10 hits = 4 wounds = 1.3 dead marines (round down to 1)
Marines attack = 36 attacks = 18 hits = 9 wounds = 7.5 dead orcs.(round up to 8)
Orcs attack = 44 attacks = 22 hits = 7.3 wounds = 2.4 dead marines (round up to 3 since rounded down the overwatch).
so 4 dead marines total on the charge

Now the same squad is slugga boys
Overwatch is halved, so on average it's 0,65 dead marines charging (let's round down for fun and say none die)
marines kill the same 8 orks.
orks attack = 66 attacks = 33 hits = 11 wounds = 3.6 dead marines. (round up to 4 since we rounded down for overwatch)

So it's 4 dead marines for either shoota or slugga boys. However, from this point on the sluggahs will outperform shootahs if they are stuck in combat with them any longer.

This doesn't take into consideration nobs because those would be equivalent on both sides.

A charging squad of marines only gets between 21 and 22 attacks on the charge, minus the dead marine and you have 19 or 20. That means 10 hits 5 wounds ~4 dead orcs. Now you have 52 Orc attacks, 26 hit, 13 wound, 4 dead marines. That marine squad is going to be dead in two turns, even if they break off and charge again.

They're more different now.

The 30 Shoota Boy unit on Foot is amazing. 3 Big Shootas, Nob with a Huge Choppa and Pole (+20 instead of +40) Or you can just give the Nob a pole.... or not have a Nob at all (195 points)

That 30 man unit can tarpit a great many things (gotta whittle down to 10 or less to make them not-fearless).

30 shootas with 3 big shootas have 54+9 shots. They're shooting isn't for overwatch, it's for shooting at whatever and holding an objective, contesting one, or tarpitting.

Now, If killing's your aim, Slugga Boyz are still the way to go. The 20 strong unit with a Nob with Klaw and Pole for 160 points is still quite seksy, depending on your target and challenge shenanigans.

Don't put them in a Wagon, as they take S4 hits when the thing pops.

Trukk Boyz are still cool (S3 hits when it pops still, due to the Rickety trukk rules), Trukks are assault, so move 6", Disembark 6", assault 2d6", with fleet if you can co-ordinate more than one trukk. What I've tried with success a few times is turbo-boosting the trukks down the field on turn one, then assaulting with a waaagh on turn two. Only so many HP3 trukks can explode a turn.

Sluggas can still walk across the field, make sure you run them, but they aren't as effective as shoota boyz in this regard as there's not as much they can do while they're walking (although they can run, that's cool too, I guess).

If you've got a Mek Boy with a KFF to grant a cover save, that's cool too.

How about all those slugga-fans sit down and think about what their boyz can do which shootaz can't?

If you think about it, that's not a whole lot. That extra attack is awesome and all, but if the shoota boyz ever have anything within 18" before the turn of their charge, the casualties caused that way will outshine those 20-30 extra attacks you get in close combat once or twice.

Most units that are crushed by sluggas, are crushed by shootaz just as well. The nob will outshine either when it comes to killing MEQ, GEQ will either fold like paper or grind you down due to superior numbers and stubborn/fearless. There really is no reason for sluggas unless you planned on getting stuck more than two rounds of combat. Just go back and think about all the games where that happened.

 Jidmah wrote:
How about all those slugga-fans sit down and think about what their boyz can do which shootaz can't?

If you think about it, that's not a whole lot. That extra attack is awesome and all, but if the shoota boyz ever have anything within 18" before the turn of their charge, the casualties caused that way will outshine those 20-30 extra attacks you get in close combat once or twice.

Most units that are crushed by sluggas, are crushed by shootaz just as well. The nob will outshine either when it comes to killing MEQ, GEQ will either fold like paper or grind you down due to superior numbers and stubborn/fearless. There really is no reason for sluggas unless you planned on getting stuck more than two rounds of combat. Just go back and think about all the games where that happened.

exactly and I have found no one with enough brash enthuasim to chase orks yet... it happens but not by the time I've widdled them down to 3-5 modles from just shooting ontop of shooting ontop of even MORE KILLY SHOOTING. It just is brutal to watch my friends who knew my tactics in 5th see nothing but 65 shots from each 30 boys squad and then just wait for them to try and come close to charge and 1 of a few things happen.

1) they start to flee back to cover or a vehicle. The counter to this tactic is either let them run or pursue them down with more dakka taking mid-field, and thus more or less the game

2) They seek to engage you regardless. The counter to this is just do what orks do best and receive the charge. Overwatch for him declaring a charge and hope they fail. If they don't even unmodified strength should deal with all but the worst monsters out there.

3) Heavy support is called in to deal with your unit. A hard line counter is to hunker down in terrain and counter it with better guns (normally lootaz or a kannon team) and provide covers support through a KFF and terrain as well and abuse firefighting with it if at all possible.

Shootas give you more tactical options. Choppa boys are better in cc. So if you want to move your Trukks/'Wagons up the field, jump out and assault, I still prefer the Choppa boys. They also get better in the subsequent rounds of combat.

Shootas are better for positioning and moving/shooting. Choppas are still better for ...chopping.

The best solution may actually to use a mixture of both.