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2013/04/05 13:40:39
Subject: Relic Knights Kickstarter from Soda Pop - The Ongoing Update Thread!
I get ticked when news like this comes out when it does. Even as the project was closing on kickstarter they should have had some indication based on the success and the promised sculpts that a delay would occur. At that point a 'Due to our success we are going to assume an X month delay' and then updated us as the status/timeline became more clear. Dropping news of a 6 month delay within two months of when they were supposed to deliver is pathetic.
Every time a terrorist dies a Paratrooper gets his wings.
2013/04/06 06:40:33
Subject: Re:Relic Knights Kickstarter from Soda Pop - The Ongoing Update Thread!
The saddest part really is the short to medium term effect it will have on the game: momentum is a very real thing, and they may have just killed it.
With this revised estimate for shipping, it's entirely likely that a number of anticipated products will be beating SP to store shelves/backers: Kingdom Death first and foremost among them. This delay will also hang over their heads like a cloud, with anything they do come out with over the course of the majority of the rest of the year prompting the question "oh, so was this what you were doing instead of...?"
You act as if KD and Relic Knights have the same audience. KD sounded interesting sure, but it didn't interest me enough to buy in. Relic Knights in plastic is something I always wanted and I threw down $600 on that.
Truth be told the delay doesn't bother me that much. It'll only bother me, as others have said, if they start to sell the stuff at conventions before the KS people get their models (ala Zombicide).
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/04/06 08:53:05
BlueDagger wrote: Yeah they dicked over tentacle bento that way and made a lot of folks angry. I'm not shocked at all since at this point I expect all Kickstarters to be several months past estimation date. One thing that crowdsource funding allows for is a relaxed attitude to deadlines. I'm sure they are working their butt off, but it's be 10x as much if there was a interest rate financial ruin attached to everything.
Maybe, but there would also be a much greater risk of getting a shoddy, rushed-to-meet-deadline product.
It's disappointing, but I'm not too bent out of shape; I certainly have no lack of painting to get caught up on and rules systems to learn in the meantime. Sample miniatures also look nice, apart from the eyes. On the one hand, I cannot paint "realistic" eyes on minis at all, but these look seriously uncanny when unpainted.
"The 75mm gun is firing. The 37mm gun is firing, but is traversed round the wrong way. The Browning is jammed. I am saying "Driver, advance." and the driver, who can't hear me, is reversing. And as I look over the top of the turret and see twelve enemy tanks fifty yards away, someone hands me a cheese sandwich."
2013/04/07 00:59:46
Subject: Re:Relic Knights Kickstarter from Soda Pop - The Ongoing Update Thread!
The Reddit is over, with... some questions of note answered (I guess?).
Spoiler:
Hello everyone! We'll be doing this Reddit AMA from 3:00 to 4:00. We wanted to start out with answers to several questions we have pulled from Kickstarter.
Q: What is the relationship between Soda Pop and CMON A: Soda Pop Miniatures is a design studio. Cool Mini or Not is our publisher. SPM creates the game and miniatures. CMON handles the manufacturing and distribution of our games.
Q: How many miniatures and which miniatures are already mastered (most miniatures I've seen so far have been just computer renderings)? How many molds and tools are already finished?
A: 107 models. All the masters are finished. These masters are currently in the hands of our manufacturer undergoing the tooling process. They estimate 3.5 months to have the molds ready.
Q: When will your supplier start/ finish production?
A: Production will begin as soon as the molds are ready. Tentatively estimated to begin in July.
The production process takes 3-4 weeks.
Q: When will the miniatures be shipped to you?
A: Once the products have been manufactured, product is shipped to the CMON warehouse in Georgia. Typically, a separate shipment is sent to a warehouse in Europe. Shipping takes 6-9 weeks, depending on customs and weather.
Q: When will the miniatures arrive at your warehouse?
A: Assuming that the shipment leaves China in August, then we expect to receive it in the CMON warehouse sometime in October.
Q: When will you start shipping to us?
A: Once in the warehouse, product will be mailed to Kickstarter pledges immediately.
Q: What is the status on the rulebook? What is the staus on the cards?
A: The rulebook and cards are all laid out and in the final pass for editing. As soon as the final edits are made, it will be available as a .pdf download for all KS pledgers. All print product will produced concurrently with the miniatures.
Q: What is the status on the tokens?
A: Tokens are designed and will be manufactured at the same time as the miniatures.
Q: What is the status on the playmats?
A: Playmats are designed and will be produced at the same time as the rest of the print product.
Q: How do you plan to inform the backers about further project progress?
A: Will continue to post updates on the Kickstarter, Facebook, and (once the new site is done) our website. We will be posting models you have not seen, plus newly painted models.
Q: Why the delay in communication of the delay? You must have known for a while?
A: After we delivered the miniatures (and posted the update to that effect) we were told that it would take longer than the initial estimate. It took several weeks before we knew the extent of the delay. We posted the update to Kickstarter the week we knew the full delay.
Q: How do you make sure that there are no additional delays? A: The game is complete. The models are mastered. With no additional changes, we can rely on our manufacturers to deliver on their quotes.
Q: Why the delay in communication of the delay? You must have known for a while?
A: After we delivered the miniatures (and posted the update to that effect) we were told that it would take longer than the initial estimate. It took several weeks before we knew the extent of the delay. We posted the update to Kickstarter the week we knew the full delay.
OK.
Q: How do you make sure that there are no additional delays? A: The game is complete. The models are mastered. With no additional changes, we can rely on our manufacturers to deliver on their quotes.
Right.
Well, they didn't exactly cover themselves in glory there...
2013/04/07 02:55:07
Subject: Re:Relic Knights Kickstarter from Soda Pop - The Ongoing Update Thread!
In the Reddit (in reply to a question about the nature of the plastics);
John as waylaid on his way here. He is the man with the specifics on plastics.
Questions about the nature of the plastics are one of the most common things in the comments, and there is one guy that can answer those questions? Incidentally, "John" is listed as one of the participants in the Reddit, but... was in the bathroom, perhaps?
This comment from the AMA was reposted on the KS comments
SPM_DekeSodapop Staff 2 points 4 minutes ago
Kickstarter orders will be the FIRST orders shipped, once the boat from China arrives and we have product in the warehouse. The decision to air ship product to have available at shows is dependent on CMON’s marketing plan and whether having new releases at a show will help ensure a successful launch of the product. We have a limited window to ensure a new game reaches critical mass and conventions are a vital component of growing the community. In the end, creating a larger community of players for a game is good for everyone.
So read into that what you will but I read it as yes CMoN will specially fly in product for cons and it's nothing to do with SPM honest!
2013/04/07 12:28:35
Subject: Relic Knights Kickstarter from Soda Pop - The Ongoing Update Thread!
Well CMON will not have the PR fallout in its hands SPM will, so why would they care much? if they airlift product for conventions they will increase the awareness and as a distributor it is high in their interests, SPM will have to deal with any reactions in their forums from the core that is displeased.
2013/04/07 13:19:41
Subject: Re:Relic Knights Kickstarter from Soda Pop - The Ongoing Update Thread!
Q: Why the delay in communication of the delay? You must have known for a while?
A: After we delivered the miniatures (and posted the update to that effect) we were told that it would take longer than the initial estimate. It took several weeks before we knew the extent of the delay. We posted the update to Kickstarter the week we knew the full delay.
A simple "Folks, we now realize there is going to be a delay, and once we know the extent of this delay we will pass that information on to you" delivered 'several weeks' ago would have been better than the "Hey, you know that game we were supposed to ship to you next month? Well, we are not gonna do it for several more months" we just got.
2013/04/16 19:23:05
Subject: Relic Knights Kickstarter from Soda Pop - The Ongoing Update Thread!
Will it be possible for people who have been very disppointed by the extra 7+ month delay to get a refund?
[–]spm_chrisSodapop Staff 2 points 1 day ago
A delay of this nature, while undesirable, is fairly common for kickstarter projects. We just want to point out that there is zero chance that Relic Knight fans won’t see their products. Relic Knights WILL ship, and the current estimated delivery date is a conservative estimate. That said, we understand that folks are unhappy. We are currently discussing options with CMON. You can direct any inquiries about your pledge to kickstarter@coolminiornot.com
Based on this, is anyone tempted to ask for a refund?
I have to admit... I am slightly tempted...
2013/04/24 18:43:05
Subject: Relic Knights Kickstarter from Soda Pop - The Ongoing Update Thread!
I was pretty much expecting a longer delay than what they had set, didn't expect 7 months.. but can't say I'm ready to ask for a refund or anything.
They did tell us that they would be releasing a PDF artbook and a finished rulebook to hold us over, but I totally understand why people would be upset.
9k
2013/04/24 19:43:39
Subject: Relic Knights Kickstarter from Soda Pop - The Ongoing Update Thread!
I have largely forgotten when they were supposed to be here, or that I spent money on the models. I am going to get a big box of stuff some afternoon, and be surprised and pleased at the contents.
The best part about having a bad memory is that every day can be like Christmas.
Will it be possible for people who have been very disppointed by the extra 7+ month delay to get a refund?
[–]spm_chrisSodapop Staff 2 points 1 day ago
A delay of this nature, while undesirable, is fairly common for kickstarter projects. We just want to point out that there is zero chance that Relic Knight fans won’t see their products. Relic Knights WILL ship, and the current estimated delivery date is a conservative estimate. That said, we understand that folks are unhappy. We are currently discussing options with CMON. You can direct any inquiries about your pledge to kickstarter@coolminiornot.com
Based on this, is anyone tempted to ask for a refund?
I have to admit... I am slightly tempted...
I'm tempted. As time goes on I'm a lot less enthusiastic about the game.
Every time a terrorist dies a Paratrooper gets his wings.
2013/04/24 23:15:20
Subject: Relic Knights Kickstarter from Soda Pop - The Ongoing Update Thread!
I'm not really. I think making more money than expected is both a blessing and a curse. With this particular KS, it's pretty obvious which goals they really thought they'd hit and which were more unexpected. You just look at how "finished" the art of the mini was, and it's obvious which ones weren't completely prepped for production. When they funded them, it adds to the tooling and production time. I think they'd have benefitted from a two phase approach, but then they'd get killed on shipping.
I was a little disappointed, but I'm not going to ask for a refund. It's unfortunate that they're behind, but It wasnt that unexpected when they had to get nearly 100 new moulds tooled.
2013/04/25 06:48:26
Subject: Relic Knights Kickstarter from Soda Pop - The Ongoing Update Thread!
I worry because of that, and because I suspect they have plenty of sculpts done we have not seen. Updates would be a good thing, especially with the monster delay.
When they don't show the sculpts it makes me wonder....
Every time a terrorist dies a Paratrooper gets his wings.
2013/04/25 13:50:28
Subject: Relic Knights Kickstarter from Soda Pop - The Ongoing Update Thread!
As I understand project management in general, a lot of them go wrong in one way or another, typically by going over schedule especially if the managers are trying to avoid going over budget or under quality.
I don't think it is like a retail contract when you back a Kickstarter. You pay, and you hope you get what you wanted, but the offer was not a specific product on a specific date.
Someone on Dakka somewhere pointed out that this is not necessarily the case - and that people can and have successfully sued 'Kickstarter" projects that have failed to deliver or were late in delivering.
To the point that CMON will simply give a refund to anyone that asks... I think!
2013/04/25 16:06:09
Subject: Relic Knights Kickstarter from Soda Pop - The Ongoing Update Thread!
In this case it bankrupted the project creator and no one got anything, the creator had bitten off more than he could chew made a lot of rookie mistakes and couldn't deliver the product. He hadn't signed contracts with manufacturers prior to commencing the KS and once they saw what he raised they bumped up their prices accordingly it's an interesting read.
I may not be happy about the 6 month delay but I still like the miniatures and game so I can wait but December/January is getting very crowded foKS deliveries!
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/04/25 16:07:28
2013/04/25 20:37:11
Subject: Re:Relic Knights Kickstarter from Soda Pop - The Ongoing Update Thread!
Will it be possible for people who have been very disppointed by the extra 7+ month delay to get a refund?
[–]spm_chrisSodapop Staff 2 points 1 day ago
A delay of this nature, while undesirable, is fairly common for kickstarter projects. We just want to point out that there is zero chance that Relic Knight fans won’t see their products. Relic Knights WILL ship, and the current estimated delivery date is a conservative estimate. That said, we understand that folks are unhappy. We are currently discussing options with CMON. You can direct any inquiries about your pledge to kickstarter@coolminiornot.com
Based on this, is anyone tempted to ask for a refund?
I have to admit... I am slightly tempted...
At this point Im not. Sure the delay sucks, but I want the minis, and the amount Im getting for what I paid is great. Id hate to get a refund now, start seeing the stuff when it gets released, and realize that I do want it, and now Ive got to pay a lot more at retail to get what I had already pledged for with the KS.
Whats my game?
Warmachine (Cygnar)
10/15mm mecha
Song of Blades & Heroes
Blackwater Gulch
X wing
Open to other games too
2013/04/25 20:58:36
Subject: Relic Knights Kickstarter from Soda Pop - The Ongoing Update Thread!
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