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Hey everyone,
I was wondering who would win out of Marneus and abbadon with the new 6th edition rule book and current codex's. I reckon abbadon would win, mainly coz he has psyker powers and powers of daemons, but also coz he looks so bada$$. So, who do you reckon nd why?

Abbadon isn't a psyker... At all...

And considering he is same strength, but goes first with way more attacks, him.

Von Chogg

Abbaddon only AP3, so Calgar gets a 2+ save against all his attacks.

Abbaddon is a sad panda until the new chaos codex hits.

Kevlar wrote:Abbaddon only AP3, so Calgar gets a 2+ save against all his attacks.

Abbaddon is a sad panda until the new chaos codex hits.

This. And there's a good chance he'll wound himself instead of attacking also.

BTW OP, since when does looking badass mean he will win a fight?

Abbadon has no arms, Calgar wins by default.

Creeeeeed!

Fluffwise, Abaddon would win.

Rulewise, I dunno.

Abaddon has a daemon weapon and goes first...

Nuff said.

LoneLictor wrote:Fluffwise, Abaddon would win.

You couldn't be more wrong!

Clearly, such a battle of epic proportions would send a quake through the warp! Worlds would crumble with each deafening blow!

Stars would be born from the sparcks of their clashing weapons! Orks on far-flung worlds would instantly know of the struggle and would flock in the billions to join!

The Eldar would all drop dead from the shock of the chaos gods themselves entering reality to witness this titanic battle!

BOOM!!!!! Draigo bursts from Khornes chest and smashes everything and everyone! He would then pin Abaddon to the ground and, with a knowing smile, hand Calgar a pen.

LoneLictor wrote:Fluffwise, Abaddon would win.

Rulewise, I dunno.

Gulliman was the only Primarch that Horus got worried about.

Are you saying the heir to Gulliman and the best Chapter Master that the Ultramarines have had would lose to a guy who's failed to conquer the same world 13 times in a row? Don't hear about Abaddon killing an Avatar by himself, holding off Waaghs of Orks at a breach in a city, or ripping Demons apart with his hands.

And in game wise, Abaddon is AP3 and can hurt himself with his own weapon.

Calgar has a pair of Master Crafted fists that can reroll all wounds, and has better shooting than Abaddon (S4 AP2 w/ Rerolls)!

In game, Calgar wins. Fluff, im(humble)opinion, Calgar wins there as well.

Are you saying the heir to Gulliman and the best Chapter Master that the Ultramarines have had would lose to a guy who's failed to conquer the same world 13 times in a row? Don't hear about Abaddon killing an Avatar by himself, holding off Waaghs of Orks at a breach in a city, or ripping Demons apart with his hands

Why does everyone say this? The crusades weren't all about conquering, and when he finally decided to he did gain a foothold on the planet itself.

ZebioLizard2 wrote:

Are you saying the heir to Gulliman and the best Chapter Master that the Ultramarines have had would lose to a guy who's failed to conquer the same world 13 times in a row? Don't hear about Abaddon killing an Avatar by himself, holding off Waaghs of Orks at a breach in a city, or ripping Demons apart with his hands

Why does everyone say this? The crusades weren't all about conquering, and when he finally decided to he did gain a foothold on the planet itself.

I do agree with you.

But isn't the only reference to "The (Black) Crusades weren't all about conquering" from GW's comments on the Eye of Terror campaign and one sentence in Soul Hunter from a lacky of Abaddons?

Are we talking about "I-am-waging-war-for-10-thousand-years" Abbadon?
He would win without his arms, without legs, and maybe without legs and arms.

Rule-wise, until he is AP2 again (I'd so love this rumor to be true), he'd have his a** kicked.

Abbadon is ap 2 in the next upcoming chaos codex. If abbadon gets enough hits on , calgar is gone.

ZebioLizard2 wrote:

Are you saying the heir to Gulliman and the best Chapter Master that the Ultramarines have had would lose to a guy who's failed to conquer the same world 13 times in a row? Don't hear about Abaddon killing an Avatar by himself, holding off Waaghs of Orks at a breach in a city, or ripping Demons apart with his hands

Why does everyone say this? The crusades weren't all about conquering, and when he finally decided to he did gain a foothold on the planet itself.

The combined forces of chaos only just managed to get a foothold on a single planet. Meanwhile, the imperium of man apparently don't know how to carpet bomb.
Honestly that whole thing is a fluff abomination.

DeffDred wrote:

LoneLictor wrote:Fluffwise, Abaddon would win.

You couldn't be more wrong!

Clearly, such a battle of epic proportions would send a quake through the warp! Worlds would crumble with each deafening blow!

Stars would be born from the sparcks of their clashing weapons! Orks on far-flung worlds would instantly know of the struggle and would flock in the billions to join!

The Eldar would all drop dead from the shock of the chaos gods themselves entering reality to witness this titanic battle!

BOOM!!!!! Draigo bursts from Khornes chest and smashes everything and everyone! He would then pin Abaddon to the ground and, with a knowing smile, hand Calgar a pen.

wonderfull, had me laughing for ages

Have an exalt, deffdread. In 5th ed, Abaddon would have destroyed Calgar, but with 6th, Calgar stomps him into the ground. (Math done assuming Abaddon charges and gets max attacks on the d6-feel free to correct me, it's early) IIRC Abaddon gets up to 10 attacks on the charge, with a 1/6 chance to hurt himself and not swing. Assuming he gets 10 attacks, he hits with 7 rounding up (unless he gets rerolls to hit, not sure if he does), wounds with 7 of them, and Calgar saves 6. Calgar then has 5 back IIRC (4 base+pair of fists), assuming fists are master-crafted according to previous post, he hits with 3 assuming the 2.5 with a reroll gets 3 hits. All wound because of titanic might. Abaddon saves 2 rounding up. Abaddon gets 9 attacks, hits with 6, wounds with 6, calgar saves 5. Repeats until Abaddon kills Calgar because he strikes 1st.

However, Abaddon probably won't have awesome dice on the daemon weapon, so calgar punches his face in with the power of AP 2

Godless-Mimicry wrote:

Kevlar wrote:Abbaddon only AP3, so Calgar gets a 2+ save against all his attacks.

Abbaddon is a sad panda until the new chaos codex hits.

This. And there's a good chance he'll wound himself instead of attacking also.

BTW OP, since when does looking badass mean he will win a fight?

Probably since about the same time people replaced 'ss's with '$$'s to circumvent auto-changer.
Smart money says OP is twelve.

On topic:
Probably Calgar for reasons listed above, also orbital strike. Just sayin.

Crazyterran wrote:
Gulliman was the only Primarch that Horus got worried about.

1. That has nothing to do with Marneus Calgar or Abaddon.
2. It's also not true. Horus was worried about quite a lot of them actually. Although it was the specific prospect of facing both Lion and Russ combined that drove him to his desperation gambit since he knew it was game over if that happened.

BTNeophyte wrote:
Have an exalt, deffdread. In 5th ed, Abaddon would have destroyed Calgar, but with 6th, Calgar stomps him into the ground. (Math done assuming Abaddon charges and gets max attacks on the d6-feel free to correct me, it's early) IIRC Abaddon gets up to 10 attacks on the charge, with a 1/6 chance to hurt himself and not swing. Assuming he gets 10 attacks, he hits with 7 rounding up (unless he gets rerolls to hit, not sure if he does), wounds with 7 of them, and Calgar saves 6. Calgar then has 5 back IIRC (4 base+pair of fists), assuming fists are master-crafted according to previous post, he hits with 3 assuming the 2.5 with a reroll gets 3 hits. All wound because of titanic might. Abaddon saves 2 rounding up. Abaddon gets 9 attacks, hits with 6, wounds with 6, calgar saves 5. Repeats until Abaddon kills Calgar because he strikes 1st.

However, Abaddon probably won't have awesome dice on the daemon weapon, so calgar punches his face in with the power of AP 2

R U Serious??
I mean, you all who support The victory upon abaddon, did your really red the chaos codex and the rules book?? It looks like "we are player of space marines and grey knights, yahooo imperium!"
Abaddon is the most powerful characters in the story, only challenged by the dark gods and the emperor, who could with his legendary powers destroy abaddon because he's a psyker. The daemon Primarchs could also challenge Abaddon, but they do not have the same support of the 4 gods of chaos, and less from the armies of chaos as Abaddon do. He will defeat easily Marneus Calgar and with chance, almost all calgar's suit.
In history means, it is described (black library) that abaddon cannot be killed by material weapons, he's too strong. Only a truely pure psyker of undoubted strength would be able to do it- let me say only the emperor in a happy ending.
Then in the game, He can stomp almost everyone easily(Marneus calgar being in there). Only a few like the Ctan, Ghazghkull, Draigo and others Eldars and Chaos special characters could challenge him. He has almost everytime the Initiative, the strength and attacks are unmatchable ( S:8, A:6-11) and the special rules makes him unstoppable.
I really think that Ghazghkull vs Abaddon would be a far better debate, because of their immense skills for themselves and what they do provide to their armies.
MAIM KILL BURN!

I'm sorry if I missed something, I must admit I havent bothered to read the whole thread, but there really is no debate to be had here. Abbadon would walk all over marneus calgar- he is one of the least likely chapter masters in with a shot of even scratching abbadons armour (I am talking purely fluff-wise having not yet fully digested new chaos codex though i'd be shocked if the math hammer was on calgars side).

 DarknessEternal wrote:

Crazyterran wrote:
Gulliman was the only Primarch that Horus got worried about.

1. That has nothing to do with Marneus Calgar or Abaddon.
2. It's also not true. Horus was worried about quite a lot of them actually. Although it was the specific prospect of facing both Lion and Russ combined that drove him to his desperation gambit since he knew it was game over if that happened.

Who knows what the fluff is anymore, lol The Black Library is rewriting it left and right.

Though, to be fair, I think he refers to the old fluff that had Horus sending the Ultramarines to the farthest edge of the galaxy so the Ultramarines would be unable to interfere with his conquest of Terra. In that manner, I think he's right that ultimately, Horus felt that he could win the battle of Terra so long as the Ultramarines were absent. So it's a bit of an exaggeration to say that Guilliman was the only Primarch he worried about, but more that the Ultramarines were the only Legion that he "worried" about.

ITT: Abbadon fanboys that can't accept that he isn't very good against King Smurf.

Calgar has Termie Armor, dual powerfists, an AP2 storm bolter, Orbital Bombardment, and can reroll to wound.

Abbadon can't puncture his armor, and has much worse shooting. And gets random attacks and random daemon weapon effects.

Fluff: Sure, Abbadon would take it.

InGame: Calgar is better in a standoff 1v1.

(Consider X vs. Y to be in-game how two would fight: deployed in a deployment zone 24"-36" away with difficult terrain and stuff. Shooting is a big deal in this, and ultimately would win Calgar the day.)

 TheCaptain wrote:
ITT: Abbadon fanboys that can't accept that he isn't very good against King Smurf.

Calgar has Termie Armor, dual powerfists, an AP2 storm bolter, Orbital Bombardment, and can reroll to wound.

Abbadon can't puncture his armor, and has much worse shooting. And gets random attacks and random daemon weapon effects.

Fluff: Sure, Abbadon would take it.

InGame: Calgar is better in a standoff 1v1.

(Consider X vs. Y to be in-game how two would fight: deployed in a deployment zone 24"-36" away with difficult terrain and stuff. Shooting is a big deal in this, and ultimately would win Calgar the day.)

I like to think a duel between them would be a more honourable affair with both parties drawing cc weapons alone but thats just me plus I dont care cos the rules always stray from the fluff you just have to sigh and accept it......

Rulewise: it depends on the dices so it could be anyone of those two.

Fluffwise: Really now? A guy who can't conquer or break one planet in 13'th times? And he even failed 13'th time by losing his fleet while Imperium is just about ready to deploy billions of Guardsmen to overrun his men who have no way to reinforce against a Chapter Master who has most plot armor in setting and who bitch-slapped freaking Avatar of Khaine.
The logic is simple...


Automatically Appended Next Post:

DaemonPit27 wrote:

In history means, it is described (black library) that abaddon cannot be killed by material weapons, he's too strong. Only a truely pure psyker of undoubted strength would be able to do it- let me say only the emperor in a happy ending.

Lord Kaldor Draigo at your service

 Brother Captain Alexander wrote:
Rulewise: it depends on the dices so it could be anyone of those two.

Fluffwise: Really now? A guy who can't conquer or break one planet in 13'th times? And he even failed 13'th time by losing his fleet while Imperium is just about ready to deploy billions of Guardsmen to overrun his men who have no way to reinforce against a Chapter Master who has most plot armor in setting and who bitch-slapped freaking Avatar of Khaine.
The logic is simple...


Automatically Appended Next Post:

DaemonPit27 wrote:

In history means, it is described (black library) that abaddon cannot be killed by material weapons, he's too strong. Only a truely pure psyker of undoubted strength would be able to do it- let me say only the emperor in a happy ending.

Lord Kaldor Draigo at your service

You dont have to be a great tactician to win in a duel and besides that i reckon abaddon could bitch-slap an avatar if he wanted.

I didn't said great tactician - I said plot armor. Nothing survives plot armor, not even chosen ones of Chaos.

I just noticed that the man who posted this thread has "Death to the Ultramarines" in his signature...
Oh the irony...

 Brother Captain Alexander wrote:
I didn't said great tactician - I said plot armor. Nothing survives plot armor, not even chosen ones of Chaos.







I know you didnt, i was refering to your comment about abaddon failing his black crusades having no bearing on his ability to win a duel. What plot armour are you refering to?

 TheCaptain wrote:
ITT: Abbadon fanboys that can't accept that he isn't very good against King Smurf.

Calgar has Termie Armor, dual powerfists, an AP2 storm bolter, Orbital Bombardment, and can reroll to wound.

Abbadon can't puncture his armor, and has much worse shooting. And gets random attacks and random daemon weapon effects.

Fluff: Sure, Abbadon would take it.

InGame: Calgar is better in a standoff 1v1.

(Consider X vs. Y to be in-game how two would fight: deployed in a deployment zone 24"-36" away with difficult terrain and stuff. Shooting is a big deal in this, and ultimately would win Calgar the day.)

ITT: You can't read. Abbaddon has an AP2 weapon. You mad?

Abaddon strikes first, hits on a 3+, rerolls failed to-hits in the first combat phase, then in the combat phase he wounds on a 3+, rerolling 1's to wound (Preferred Enemy: Marines), and then strikes through Calgar's Terminator Armor.

You irate?

 Vladsimpaler wrote:

You can't read.

Rude.

You mad?

Equally so.

Not to mention you only disproved a minuscule part of my argument.

One player uses Calgar, other uses Abbadon.

Abbadon will have taken several wounds, if not died, before CC even happens.