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I'm not sure if anyone mentioned it or if everyone already knows but the x-wings and TIEs that come in the booster packs have different pilots and equipment than those in the starter box so it's worth getting at least one booster of each to supplement any multiple starter purchase you might make.

Good point. From what I read on FFG's forum, it is about 50/50 new stuff and duplicates from the starter set.

 Manchu wrote:
So what kind of expansions would you guys like to see?

Must haves:

- A-wing
- B-wing
- TIE Interceptor
- TIE Bomber

Anything and everything YT-1300 size and smaller. I dont care what movie or book its from, if theres enough info to engineer a mini, fething make it. Obviously start with the better known stuff from both movie trilogies, then move onto the more obscure stuff.

@Mad4Minis: I will be very happy if FFG shows some restraint on that account. The past decade has been about milking the merchandise for every red cent. I think FFG should resist making a miniature for every conceivable ship and focus on tactical depth to cultivate a strong experience and brand identity.

By the by, here's a list of what cards come with what sets:

http://boardgamegeek.com/geeklist/145226/item/2237507#item2237507

 Manchu wrote:
@Mad4Minis: I will be very happy if FFG shows some restraint on that account. The past decade has been about milking the merchandise for every red cent. I think FFG should resist making a miniature for every conceivable ship and focus on tactical depth to cultivate a strong experience and brand identity.

I can appreciate that, but Id hate to see it just be original trilogy only...if the game has only a handful of choices for each side its going to get boring real fast.

It'd be boring for miniatures collectors (or at least some of them) but not necessarily for gamers.

I personally find most color swaps for a ship that I already own more boring than an EU or other era ship that I don't... and I'm a gamer nto a collector. I'm not asking that they spam us with ships every week but I definitely would prefer that they come out with over a dozen before they start rehashing the same ships with a different colored stripe and an even lesser known EU character piloting it.

Repaints =! rehash. The object is to add value to large scale games by allowing (1) more options for the brand-centric options and (2) squad-level visual differentiation.

So much SW merchandising has been run into the ground by having to do one of every conceivable thing out there. More More More! is not a great mantra. And the thought of Rogue Squadron facing off against droid fighters honestly makes me feel a little queasy.

 Manchu wrote:
And the thought of Rogue Squadron facing off against droid fighters honestly makes me feel a little queasy.

And I'd find myself quickly losing interest in the game if the only offerings for waves of releases were the same models I already had but with a green stripe and some 2nd string EU pilots I never heard of. To each his own...

edit: No need for a bump so I just edited my message. Someone on the FFG boards posted a pic of the FFG ships next to the out of print WOTC collectible minis game so I figured I'd link to it here as well in case people are thinking about using those ships.

So ... some slight quality differences there.

Regarding pilots, how many of these guys have you heard of in the first place? Hortan Salm? Mauler Mithel? Garven Dreis? Winged Gundark? Let's face it: aside from Luke, Wedge, and Vader (and Porkins for the lolz) all pilots are pretty much "EU" even if the image of one of these retroactive characters appears in the OT. (For example, Hortan Salm was apparently Gray Leader at Yavin.) So I can't really see how your "EU pilots I have never heard of" argument is relevant. It's not the name of the pilot that's important but what kind of tactical options that pilot card brings to the game.

Having a choice between spending 5 - 10 USD for a pack of cards or 15 USD for new cards + a repainted X-Wing/TIE Fighter, etc., I'd definitely take the latter option. The other route, of expanding into the prequels, comics, video games, etc., means that the game itself is not being supported and instead merchandising is the key driver. I don't get more options for my X-Wings in a game called X-Wing when FFG starts selling Naboo N1 starfighters. So like I said, that may appeal to collectors but I don't think it has much appeal to gamers who want to play a game called X-Wing.

 Manchu wrote:
So what kind of expansions would you guys like to see?

Must haves:

- A-wing
- B-wing
- TIE Interceptor
- TIE Bomber

- B-wing
- B-wing
- TIE Defender
- Z-95 Headhunter
- TIE/D Automated Starfighter
- Did mention the B-wing yet?

Also, maybe a Z-'ceptor. For some reason, I really like how they look.

This is just me speculating but I think the ships so far fall into a couple of different categories:

Standard Fighters: TIE Fighter and X-Wing

Support Fighters: TIE Advanced and Y-Wing

Scouts: A-Wing and TIE Interceptor

(eventually) Heavy Hitters: B-Wing and TIE Bomber

The Z-95 and TIE/D may fit into a fifth class of "Sub-Standard" fighters that basically come in a lower costs but are basically servicable and list fillers.

 Manchu wrote:
So ... some slight quality differences there.
So I can't really see how your "EU pilots I have never heard of" argument is relevant. It's not the name of the pilot that's important but what kind of tactical options that pilot card brings to the game.

Some people are more fans of certain characters than the whole universe and they do specifically want to field Darth Vader not necessarily because they want a guy who can use two actions per turn but because they're fielding Darth freakin' Vader. That motivation disappears for most people when you use a minor character from a secondary EU source. If the starter was instead an X-wing versus a Tie Advanced but didn't include father and son Skywalker, I'd buy a box of each expansion specifically for those cards; I wouldn't do that just to get the 2nd guy from the left during the trench run on each side even if they each had a 3 issue plot arc in the Rogue Squadron comic series in the 90's. It may not be relevant for you personally but it is to others and therefore the discussion.


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 Platuan4th wrote:

- B-wing
- B-wing
- TIE Defender
- Z-95 Headhunter
- TIE/D Automated Starfighter
- Did mention the B-wing yet?

Also, maybe a Z-'ceptor. For some reason, I really like how they look.

I'd say the b-wing is a shoe-in and I do hope they include the headhunter as well. I'd personally throw on the arc-170, jedi starfighter (the spearhead shaped one from ep2), and Tie Predator but those are obviously from different eras so will likely have to wait for a while.

 warboss wrote:
It may not be relevant for you personally but it is to others and therefore the discussion.

That's a cheap move. I didn't say it was irrelevant to the discussion generally. But what has it got to do with expanding into the prequels or EU mechanics-wise? This is a game about X-Wings and TIE Fighters. Supporting the game means supporting X-Wings and TIE Fighters, both with the models that provide the rest of their context (see my categories break down above) and with new rules/cards. I don't get your Darth Vader example at all. Darth Vader can be played but how does that make it any less important that you have mid-range costed pilots, too? As I said, it doesn't really matter what name is printed on the card when it's not Luke, Wedge, Vader, or R2-D2. Instead, it's important what rules are on the card.

 Manchu wrote:

 warboss wrote:
It may not be relevant for you personally but it is to others and therefore the discussion.

That's a cheap move. I didn't say it was irrelevant to the discussion generally. But what has it got to do with expanding into the prequels or EU mechanics-wise? This is a game about X-Wings and TIE Fighters. Supporting the game means supporting X-Wings and TIE Fighters, both with the models that provide the rest of their context (see my categories break down above) and with new rules/cards. I don't get your Darth Vader example at all. Darth Vader can be played but how does that make it any less important that you have mid-range costed pilots, too? As I said, it doesn't really matter what name is printed on the card when it's not Luke, Wedge, Vader, or R2-D2. Instead, it's important what rules are on the card.

No, you simply said that the presence or absence of EU pilots isn't relevant without any other qualifiers. Its not a "cheap move" to disagree with you so please tone down the rhetoric. I don't see as much value in repaints as you do partly because most of the good/known pilots will be included with the first iteration of each ship. For people like me that actually want to field certain named characters specifically on the tabletop (regardless of their ability), getting second string EU pilots with a repaint of an existing fighter doesn't increase the appeal. Since there are limited releases as it appears that each side only gets a single ship every month or two, I feel the "slot" is wasted on a rehash of an existing ship when others haven't had a single release yet. I don't, mind you, have a problem overall with repaint rereleases but I see them personally as less valuable to the game than a completely different unrepresented ship which means I'd prefer to have them appear later (after the same era EU is covered for instance) rather than sooner.

 Manchu wrote:
[As I said, it doesn't really matter what name is printed on the card when it's not Luke, Wedge, Vader, or R2-D2. Instead, it's important what rules are on the card.

Lol, again with the absolutes. It doesn't matter TO YOU what name is on the card and the only thing important TO YOU is what rules are there. That view isn't necessarily true for everyone.

 warboss wrote:
Its not a "cheap move" to disagree with you so please tone down the rhetoric.

It really is cheap to call somebody out on an argument that they didn't make -- and you just did it again: I'm not saying it's cheap to disagree with me and there's really no way what I said even hints at that.

warboss wrote:I don't see as much value in repaints as you do partly because most of the good/known pilots will be included with the first iteration of each ship.

But if you take a look at this game, you will see it is not about Darth Vader shooting at Luke Skywalker. Yeah, that is a fun thing that you can do but it's not the meat and potatoes of the game. Heck, Darth Vader is not even included in the starter set. The game is about OT-era ships dogfighting each other. That's really not "just my opinion" either. The name on the box is "X-Wing Miniatures Game." All the ships and characters are taken from the OT (even where the designers needed to rely on EU sources for the names of OT characters). It sounds like this game isn't for you because what you're describing as the direction that would keep your interest is not really what this game seems to be about, which is Galactic Civil War dogfighting. Think of it as a miniatures version of the X-Wing v. TIE Fighter computer game.

 Manchu wrote:
The game is about OT-era ships dogfighting each other. That's really not "just my opinion" either. The name on the box is "X-Wing Miniatures Game." All the ships and characters are taken from the OT (even where the designers needed to rely on EU sources for the names of OT characters). It sounds like this game isn't for you because what you're describing as the direction that would keep your interest is not really what this game seems to be about, which is Galactic Civil War dogfighting. Think of it as a miniatures version of the X-Wing v. TIE Fighter computer game.

You seem to be of the persuasion that these two motivations to play the game (dogfighting with specific characters versus dogfighting with specific rules in your squadron) are somehow mutually exclusive. Luckily for me, that's not the case and my interests and the game's goals do align. As such, it's probably best to just to agree to disagree. Either way, it'll be a few months (and likely at least two more release wave announcements) before they complete the OT movie fighters and repaints even become a viable possibility (as opposed to switching to EU or another era) so no reason for either of us to stress out about it.

 warboss wrote:
You seem to be of the persuasion that these two motivations to play the game (dogfighting with specific characters versus dogfighting with specific rules in your squadron) are somehow mutually exclusive.

To be honest, I don't understand the distinction you're making there. Only certain characters have certain rules. Aside from the gee whiz factor of some of the best cards being Luke, Wedge, and Vader, every other character's name is just a label for their rules. There may be some individual out there who has been waiting for years to pilot a Y-Wing in a game like this with Hortan Salm (and I say this as a fan of that character in all seriousness) but I don't think that's what you're talking about.

There are A - wings mentions? I'm in then, though it will be christmas time before I get any with dreamforges latest doozey.

Also you reckon they will bring out any larger ships?? Would be interesting to see a blockade runner like the Tantive IV in a game like this, apart from the fact I love the ship

Can't see a release date neither? Any idea's? Sorry if I have missed it

US release seems pegged for September (probably later than earlier) but I don't know whether it will be different for the UK. In any case, A-Wings will not be out in the US until "Winter" -- which could mean Christmas, could mean, Q1 2013, or could mean spring ... let's keep that at Gen Con 2011, FFG said X-Wing would have a January 2012 release ... We've been chatting on the FFG forum about larger ships and there's a consensus that something as large as the CR90 corvette is probably too big to produce at scale -- people have estimated it ending up around 22" long. Given that the upcoming medium-sized ships (the Millennium Falcon and Salve 1) are priced at 30 USD each, a model of the CR90 in the same scale would likely cost a fortune. And model out-of-scale would IMO be a waste of everyone's time.

I've got my preorders down for this game, have seen the vids people have kindly posted has made me more excited for this game.

2 x X-wing game
2 x Y-wings
2 x Tie Fighter
1 x X-wing
1 x Tie Advance

Kinda looking forward to the TIE Defender if they do it.

Expect a very high points cost!

Yeah the TIE defender is lovely piece of Imperial engineering and so is the Missile Boat, Thrawn answer to TIE Defender well in the computer game anyways.

Will they include the Uglys like the X-TIE fighter and Y-TIE ect?

As near as I can tell, the EU material has only appeared insofar as pilot names -- meaning FFG is drawing from Michael Stackpole's X-Wing novels as well as the X-Wing series of computer games. They don't seem to have drawn from the Rogue Squadron video game series, for example. I don't think that means we'll necessarily see either a TIE Defender or especially a Missile Boat (which completely misses the Star Wars design aesthetic). As discussed above, I don't think pilot names are really important outside of the movie stars so I doubt their use really indicates anything about the model range.

All the pilot names will mean something to those who have read the series to others it will mean how good a card will be for their squadron building, I suppose an example would be Tycho Celchu, those who read the books he's a character heavily involved with Rogue squadron and flies the A-Wing in RotJ that go on the death star attack run and splits up to take some of TIEs' away from Wedge and the Falcon but to those who haven't he's just a card with some stats on.

I guess as time move on maybe they will go backwards in the timeline or forwards but I'm quite happy were they currently are there's a fair few ships from novels and games that people haven't seen in the current time line.

I'm a big fan of the Stackpole's series and I also played the ever loving crap out of the games. I sympathize with the interest to, for example, see a model of the Pulsar Skate and Mirax as her pilot. But I just don't see that as jiving with the brand. When I say the pilots' names don't matter, I'm not saying I never read the books or comics or played the games and so don't care about them. I'm saying something about the product.

Also, it is interesting that neither Corran Horn nor Soontir Fel have appeared as pilots.

I love the Stackpole novels aswell I didn't mean you didn't care, just some people won't know much difference to Wedge or a Darklighter pilot card besides point value and flavoured text.

But yeah Corran Horn and Soontir Fel might come out laters or be Conventions only, If I recall Horn's X-wing was painted Corsec Green even tho he was in Rogue squadron, but I hope they do
as you have said in the thread and bring out different colour craft, like Green or Blue.

 Manchu wrote:
US release seems pegged for September (probably later than earlier) but I don't know whether it will be different for the UK. In any case, A-Wings will not be out in the US until "Winter" -- which could mean Christmas, could mean, Q1 2013, or could mean spring ... let's keep that at Gen Con 2011, FFG said X-Wing would have a January 2012 release ... We've been chatting on the FFG forum about larger ships and there's a consensus that something as large as the CR90 corvette is probably too big to produce at scale -- people have estimated it ending up around 22" long. Given that the upcoming medium-sized ships (the Millennium Falcon and Salve 1) are priced at 30 USD each, a model of the CR90 in the same scale would likely cost a fortune. And model out-of-scale would IMO be a waste of everyone's time.

Thanks for the info, that fits with when I would want to get the starter anyway

Haha! That big! I knew it would be very large compared but wow! Definitely not a good idea! Ah well the A-wings are enough for me!

 Ravenblade666 wrote:
I love the Stackpole novels aswell I didn't mean you didn't care, just some people won't know much difference to Wedge or a Darklighter pilot card besides point value and flavoured text.

But yeah Corran Horn and Soontir Fel might come out laters or be Conventions only, If I recall Horn's X-wing was painted Corsec Green even tho he was in Rogue squadron, but I hope they do
as you have said in the thread and bring out different colour craft, like Green or Blue.

Corran was kind of the exception to the rule in terms of squadron colors. The reason being, if you'll recall, that the X-Wing was actually considered "his" property when he joined the Alliance.

With that said:
I think they're focusing on the more well-known stuff early on. It's a smart move, as it gets the most attention for the smallest amount of effort. Add to it that some characters are just well-known anyways, and you've got a good setup.

I would also be very surprised Manchu if the TIE/D does not appear as it has featured in some novels. Most notably "Isard's Revenge".

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Ravenblade666 wrote:
I love the Stackpole novels aswell I didn't mean you didn't care, just some people won't know much difference to Wedge or a Darklighter pilot card besides point value and flavoured text.

But yeah Corran Horn and Soontir Fel might come out laters or be Conventions only, If I recall Horn's X-wing was painted Corsec Green even tho he was in Rogue squadron, but I hope they do
as you have said in the thread and bring out different colour craft, like Green or Blue.

Corran was kind of the exception to the rule in terms of squadron colors. The reason being, if you'll recall, that the X-Wing was actually considered "his" property when he joined the Alliance.

With that said:
I think they're focusing on the more well-known stuff early on. It's a smart move, as it gets the most attention for the smallest amount of effort. Add to it that some characters are just well-known anyways, and you've got a good setup.

I would also be very surprised Manchu if the TIE/D does not appear as it has featured in some novels. Most notably "Isard's Revenge".

And "Starfighters of Adumar", though the Aaron Alston entries aren't as good, IMO.