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AlmightyWalrus wrote:Rune Weapons are Unusual Force Weapons though, aren't they?

No. Force Weapons are Unusual if they have unique close combat rules. Runic Weapons have special rules... but they don't apply to close combat.

insaniak wrote:

AlmightyWalrus wrote:Rune Weapons are Unusual Force Weapons though, aren't they?

No. Force Weapons are Unusual if they have unique close combat rules. Runic Weapons have special rules... but they don't apply to close combat.

Wound daemons on a 2+? Not cc enough for ya?

Yeah, forgot about that one... I've had exactly two games against Daemons with my Wolves, and the Rune Priest didn't live long enough to hit anybody in either game

insaniak wrote:Yeah, forgot about that one... I've had exactly two games against Daemons with my Wolves, and the Rune Priest didn't live long enough to hit anybody in either game

It's fine, you never ever use a priest in combat unless you have no other choice. Not something that would come up very often.

insaniak wrote:

AlmightyWalrus wrote:Rune Weapons are Unusual Force Weapons though, aren't they?

No. Force Weapons are Unusual if they have unique close combat rules. Runic Weapons have special rules... but they don't apply to close combat.

Actually they do have the 2+ always wound Daemon thing going.
The thing about this debate is Nowhere does it say Runic Weapons are “Unusual Force Weapons” Many assume they are for there special abilities, just like the Grey Knights NFW are technically Unusual Force Weapons, but they remain the same.

Only GW knows what right and I am not going to hold my breath waiting for a FAQ to solve it, because I don’t think they will.

In a vain attempt to now get Back on Topic:
Choosing to use a Power Weapon as any of the four types listed is not Modeling For Advantage is no more wrong than using the kneeling legs for your Apothecary in your Command Squad.

Actually, Rune and NFW are pretty clearcut.

They are AP3/Strength regardless of shape (except Daemon Hammers, since they are specific).

kirsanth wrote:

Testify wrote:There is an advantage, as I have already posted. You can insist they are the same if you want.

Your perception of advantage is fine for you to have. The game, in this case however, actually has a value for this modeling. One of two things with the same points value, which is stated in the rules as relating their relative power (and thus advantage) cannot be (rightfully) called advantageous over the other.

"Knowing the points value your models gives you a way of reckoning your army's effectiveness."

Two armies identical except for for the varieties of power weapons are therefor exactly as effective as each other, neither has advantage according to the rules.

kirsanth has it correct.
with emphasis on "One of two things with the same points value, which is stated in the rules as relating their relative power (and thus advantage) cannot be (rightfully) called advantageous over the other."

They may have different battlefield roles, but neither is advantageous relative to the other.

liturgies of blood wrote:

DeathReaper wrote:

liturgies of blood wrote:Pants mandatory!

Yea, going to need a Page reference for where this is stated...

See the examples of how to play a game in the first pages of the book? Are the guys wearing pants? An explicit example of wearing pants while playing a game. Nothing in the rules says you have a choice in the matter.

Sorry had to bring this back up real quick. I would like to point out that while the people in the first pages of the book are in fact wearing pants, as it has been pointed out that part is not rules. Looking through the rules portion, I see exactly one person (and some hands) and the only thing we can tell for sure, is that the one person we see, has arrows coming out of his eyes. So we still need a page reference for pants being mandatory.

This can be dropped back into obscurity again.

Happyjew wrote:

liturgies of blood wrote:

DeathReaper wrote:

liturgies of blood wrote:Pants mandatory!

Yea, going to need a Page reference for where this is stated...

See the examples of how to play a game in the first pages of the book? Are the guys wearing pants? An explicit example of wearing pants while playing a game. Nothing in the rules says you have a choice in the matter.

Sorry had to bring this back up real quick. I would like to point out that while the people in the first pages of the book are in fact wearing pants, as it has been pointed out that part is not rules. Looking through the rules portion, I see exactly one person (and some hands) and the only thing we can tell for sure, is that the one person we see, has arrows coming out of his eyes. So we still need a page reference for pants being mandatory.

This can be dropped back into obscurity again.

I give in, there is no rule to say you must wear pants. I probably should otherwise I'll be sweeping models off the table as I turn :p

Badum ching.

IMO, generally people who argue that Modelling For Wargear is Modelling For Advantage seem to be huge hypocrites, because they're so selective about what MFW is MFA and because they're diluting MFA term with items that never before were considered MFA.

Prior 6e, no-one in their right minds would have argued that putting Extra Armour on vehicle is MFA, or that replacing Lascannon from Leman Russ with Heavy Bolter is MFA, or that Assault Cannons or heavy Flamers on Razorbacks are MFA.
Note that each of these things is just as MFA as giving Crusader power axe instead of power sword.

Luide wrote:Prior 6e, no-one in their right minds would have argued that putting Extra Armour on vehicle is MFA, or that replacing Lascannon from Leman Russ with Heavy Bolter is MFA, or that Assault Cannons or heavy Flamers on Razorbacks are MFA.
Note that each of these things is just as MFA as giving Crusader power axe instead of power sword.

Well the opposing argument some are making is that those alterations cost a point value, as opposed to then new power weapons being 'free', and so the advantage is 'paid for' as it were.

However, I agree with those who then pointed out that if GW had intended for there to be a different cost, they wouldn't have presented the power weapon rules in the manner provided. Power fists, for example, still cost points because they dramatically increase strength and AP. Power axes are a minor Str advantage, but with all the negative effects that I1 provides, and so aren't 'good' enough to warrant an extra cost.

Maybe it will be FAQ'd, but I doubt it.

DoW

Death Cult Assassins with 1 Power Weapon and 1 Power Maul get a huge upgrade for free. I own 27 of them and I am not doing any MFA until I see an FAQ. I just think it is a bad idea to make something that is very contentious a part of your army.

How is this a topic..... its not even debatable as they are not special or characters.... I already gave mine lances and mauls.

 Shinkaze wrote:
Death Cult Assassins with 1 Power Weapon and 1 Power Maul get a huge upgrade for free. I own 27 of them and I am not doing any MFA until I see an FAQ. I just think it is a bad idea to make something that is very contentious a part of your army.

Do you realize that both current models for DCA are not legal?

one has two swords, neither of which is a power weapon, and the other has one power sword, and no second weapon.

you have to do some modeling to make them legal, as they do not have the correct wargear.

Just put the Axes on your Crusaders and take them to a tourney. If someone raises a stink report them to the tournament organizer and laugh as he (or she) gets thrown out.

Thread is being locked due to thread necromancy.