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And with that, let's go back to 6e shooting rules, please.

So, I agree that 6th ed shooting is nice. They fixed a couple of things that always used to bug me. It never made any sense that if one guy in a unit quick went behind a tree to take a wee that the heavy weapon guy couldn't fire his weapon, for example.

That said, I don't like it in the very abstract. They did some nice and even necessary things to help shooting, but in the process they crucified close combat. Shooting has never bee the most interesting part of 40k to me, and if they're going to improve shooting, they needed to have done some things to boost close combat, or at least to still leave it viable.

I'd rather have shooting with questionable rules in a game where you could either shoot or assault than a game where shooting has good rules, but you can't play an assault army outside of draigowing...

Now they just need to do for assault what they did for shooting - clearing up a bunch of strange rules and generally making it better.

Assault certainly isnt the most reliable way to win your battles now, it was more popular during 5th, in my area at least.

Perhaps that explains the change? "Everyones favouring assult armies we should make them buy more shooty models"?

People talking about assault armies being dead need to remember they're generally talking about older codexes.
Wait until the news Chaos Codex comes out and see how effective the melee units in that are. The rumour mill is saying that Beserkers are looking terrifying.

Hell, give me a unit that can stand up to assaulting Death Company for that matter.

I had an unwounded Daemon Prince die from overwatch. It was a sad, sad day.

There are ways to avoid OW, of course, but it can be very painful. Even losing just one or two charging models can severely reduce your charge range.

How can you lose an unwounded demon prince to overwatch? Did you charge some flamers of tzeentch or something?

Let's see, each plasma gun has a 0.07 chance of causing a wound, so you'd need to assault 54 plasma guns, or 27 double-tapping. That's assuming a 5++ save.
Amusingly, that would cause 9 wounds on the firers as well, for 3 dead MEQ or 6 dead guardsmen.

Also assuming a 5++ save, since I don't know what type of DP we're talking about so I'll use the most conservative, an individual bolter will cause 0.037 wounds on average, that's 27 bolters per wound, with 4 wounds that's 108, or 54 double tapping.

So what the hell were you assaulting?

Purifiers with 4 psycannons and some very hot dice (though Preferred Enemy did help).

He managed to get 6 wounds, and I failed 4 of them (3+ save). Go figure.

That's verrry unlucky, though I can't help but wonder why you'd assault purifiers with a demon prince anyway.

Things were getting very desperate; the entire game had been like that If he had gotten into combat, though, Blessing of the Blood God would have really tied up the unit.

As much as the new shooting makes sense, and I feel like it's the way it should be, my squads of boyz are very sad about it. Of course, the people I play with seem to have lucky dice on OW and snap shots (I lost a dakkajet to 5 bolters on it's first turn!)

Oh, another thing I forgot to mention. There is, actually, one thing that I actually dislike about shooting. It basically got rid of hidden upgrades. Hidden powerfists and the like have long been a staple of 40k, and there have been a lot of changes that have made hidden things not hidden anymore.

Obviously not all armies are affected equally by this, but older codices and hordes were seriously hurt by this.

Can't you just put them in the back until they are needed for an assault? Then they are screened by the rest of the squad.

Precision shots can still get to them.

Doomhunter wrote:Precision shots can still get to them.

Can you "Look out SIr" that precision shot?.

AegisGrimm wrote:Can't you just put them in the back until they are needed for an assault? Then they are screened by the rest of the squad.

Yes you can, since the character needs to be in range of the model that he's trying to place the Precise Shot on, see pg. 63, 2nd sentence of the first paragraph under Precision Shots.

Lord Harrab wrote:

Doomhunter wrote:Precision shots can still get to them.

Can you "Look out SIr" that precision shot?.

Indeed you can, see pg. 63, last sentence of the first paragraph under Precision Shots.

nosferatu1001 wrote:mwnciboo - 6s on to wound are rending, so AP2. You still follow the rules for allocation, you dont get to pick

You cannot Precision Shot on Overwatch

Can you reference the rule for not Precision Shooting (pg pls) as I don't have my rule book to hand, so I can correct it with our gaming group on our THursday night gaming session as last week one of the guys did this with a Scout Squad and killed the Sergeant of the squad. Thanks Nosferatu1001.

You should have seen it when tyranids assaulted my 15 burna boyz and i rolled 3 on the d3 (45 s4 ap5 hits againist 20 'nids)

Tod wrote:You should have seen it when tyranids assaulted my 15 burna boyz and i rolled 3 on the d3 (45 s4 ap5 hits againist 20 'nids)

You rolled a 3 for each of the burna boyz?

So far I'm liking it. The game always felt to assault based to me prevously, and the hidden power fists etc I always found 'wrong'.

Our games so far have still had a fair bit of close combat in, but feel more futuristic IMO with the extra emphasis on the shooting. LOS feels a better way of keeping an important guy alive a bit longer, rather than everyone else just being an auto extra wound for him.

I also like the extra mobility that you get with either snap shot or the new rapid fire rules now, rather than the old boring static lines that the older rules resulted in if you wanted a shooty infantry army.

Tod wrote:You should have seen it when tyranids assaulted my 15 burna boyz and i rolled 3 on the d3 (45 s4 ap5 hits againist 20 'nids)

You roll a D3 for EACH weapon, you dont roll one D3 and multiply by the number of weapons

nosferatu1001 wrote:

Tod wrote:You should have seen it when tyranids assaulted my 15 burna boyz and i rolled 3 on the d3 (45 s4 ap5 hits againist 20 'nids)

You roll a D3 for EACH weapon, you dont roll one D3 and multiply by the number of weapons

Oh, we didn't know . A least it wasn't for a tourny or anything, but now i know

I like overwatch. The idea that men are going to just sit there and watch a squad walk up to them in assault is stupid. I play IG, so I really hate the assault phase. Think about it, one Purifier could assault an IG squad and wipe it out in CC and sweeping advance easily. Now with 19 flashlight shots, there's a chance the Purifier won't make it to the squad at all. If you had a plasma vet squad, there's a good chance one will score a hit and wound, then it's definitely game over.

Cursed Dice wrote:I like overwatch. The idea that men are going to just sit there and watch a squad walk up to them in assault is stupid. I play IG, so I really hate the assault phase. Think about it, one Purifier could assault an IG squad and wipe it out in CC and sweeping advance easily. Now with 19 flashlight shots, there's a chance the Purifier won't make it to the squad at all. If you had a plasma vet squad, there's a good chance one will score a hit and wound, then it's definitely game over.

19 flashlight shots is not going to do much to a purifier squad, and in the previous edition you could make IG platoons that can actually beat purifiers in melee. Now IG is all MSU all the time since you can't hide anything.

mwnciboo wrote:

Testify wrote:
War IS mainly about numbers. 40k doubly so.

No it isn't, that's Soviet Doctorine. War is not about numbers at all, many is the instance of a small force defeating a larger force, otherwise it would be a simple case of having a bigger force. As a Graduate of the British Advanced Command and Staff College Shrivenham, I am telling you war is not simple numbers, it's not even close.

Can I sig quote you on that?

 Tod wrote:

nosferatu1001 wrote:

Tod wrote:You should have seen it when tyranids assaulted my 15 burna boyz and i rolled 3 on the d3 (45 s4 ap5 hits againist 20 'nids)

You roll a D3 for EACH weapon, you dont roll one D3 and multiply by the number of weapons

Oh, we didn't know . A least it wasn't for a tourny or anything, but now i know

wait, does this also apply to lootaz? i had 15, rolled a single d3 to determine if it was 15, 30, or 45 shots. this is incorrect? i roll a d3 for each loota in the squad?

You roll a d3 per loota.

 Iur_tae_mont wrote:
You roll a d3 per loota.

I'm pretty sure the d3 applies to the whole squad of lootas. From the codex: "Roll once each shooting phase to determine the unit's rate of fire" and then in the example given, "A unit of ten lootas chooses to fire at a squad of space marines, and makes the roll to see how many shots they fire. They roll a 6, which equals 3 on a D3. This means they will fire 30 shots this turn."

 Jonny_Awesome wrote:

 Tod wrote:

nosferatu1001 wrote:

Tod wrote:You should have seen it when tyranids assaulted my 15 burna boyz and i rolled 3 on the d3 (45 s4 ap5 hits againist 20 'nids)

You roll a D3 for EACH weapon, you dont roll one D3 and multiply by the number of weapons

Oh, we didn't know . A least it wasn't for a tourny or anything, but now i know

wait, does this also apply to lootaz? i had 15, rolled a single d3 to determine if it was 15, 30, or 45 shots. this is incorrect? i roll a d3 for each loota in the squad?

Lootas have a specific rule saying you roll a single D3 to determine the shots for the whole unit.