Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

More and more it's sounding like CoD/DoC could be ANOTHER update instead of a new book. Which is disappointing and kinda strange at first blush. But then considering it's a whole new digital age for GW...maybe more rolling updates and fewer codex/book redos will be the wave of the future.

Plastic bloodthirster makes me a happy panda

Plastic GD's would be something of a God-send as well (pun not intended). I love my Bloodthirster, but it'd be nice if I could use him without feeling like he's going to fall apart of I breathe too heavily on him. My KoS has actually exploded once. I put the pieces inside a Rhino until I worked up the strength to rebuild the entire thing (I'm not kidding about the 'explode' part either, it got caught on something and I pulled and every piece went flying). Only my GUO stays in one piece, but it's a GUO so that's obvious.

Don't have a LOC. Friend does. He's never been able to get the wings on.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Plastic GD's would be something of a God-send as well (pun not intended). I love my Bloodthirster, but it'd be nice if I could use him without feeling like he's going to fall apart of I breathe too heavily on him. My KoS has actually exploded once. I put the pieces inside a Rhino until I worked up the strength to rebuild the entire thing (I'm not kidding about the 'explode' part either, it got caught on something and I pulled and every piece went flying). Only my GUO stays in one piece, but it's a GUO so that's obvious.

Don't have a LOC. Friend does. He's never been able to get the wings on.

Assembling the finecast Lord of Change was a massive pain, espically with the wings and the "hopping" leg which had to have a good amount of green stuff to have it stay still. It doesn't even have a base pin for it's 'hopping' foot.

Heh. His one is metal. That's worse.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Only my GUO stays in one piece, but it's a GUO so that's obvious.

Oh. Mine leaves a slime trail and falls off it every movement phase. Luckily it's all imaginary though. Cause its a GUO.

 Salacious Greed wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Only my GUO stays in one piece, but it's a GUO so that's obvious.

Oh. Mine leaves a slime trail and falls off it every movement phase. Luckily it's all imaginary though. Cause its a GUO.

It doesn't look any better than the others, espically to assemble. Though I find my Bloodthirster is quite resilient to damage, though his wings had to be mostly covered by green stuff just to make sure they don't fall off.

I always saw the GDs as a test in pinning.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Heh. His one is metal. That's worse.

I have two LoCs with wings (one is a converted Kairos w/ BT wings on it), and both models sucked to build. But my wings stay on fairly well. It might be the super glue I use: generic black and yellow bottle from Walmart.

I've never had problems with my Metal BT breaking, the rock I added on his base however has fallen off a few times.

My GUO is a conversion, so no worries on that.

 blood reaper wrote:

Larry Vela wrote:So remember all that talk of Chaos Daemons coming soon on the heels of the Dark Angels? Well here is what the cold voices on the wind portend...
via tsetse fly

Incoming Chaos Daemon Wave:

It is believed to be a Q1 release. There is conflicting chatter as to whether the Codex is coming as well, or whether it is a miniatures-only wave with White Dwarf rules like we say in Q4-12.

Miniatures:

BloodThirster
Great Unclean One,
New Nurgle "jetbikes" - Described as GIANT FLIES with Plaguebearer Riders!!!
Khornate Chariot with dual-build options.
-Option 1: Transport (holds a big squad of daemons, opened top)
-Option 2: Cannon Variant (autocannon equivalent blast template, medium range)

~More as we get it. Nurgle flying cav sounds totally cool! This does sound like its is roughly along wiht lines of the last Chaos Daemons wave. It has a new cav unit, a chariot to use those new 40k chariot rules, and a couple of new Majors thrown in for good measure. This is a good thing. The current GW Major Daemons are ancient and kind of embarrassing by modern production standards.

For the work blocked.

Hastings said late last year though we would getting "books".
Outside of his release months being off by a month or so, when was the last time Hastings confused army book/codex for 'WD rules'?!

Besides, Daemons need;
a) A serious balancing act in Fantasy, since it's still laughably easy to make auto-win builds.

b) A serious balancing act in 40k to bring them into line with proper pts costings, better deployment (ie: f -off with your BS rolling for waves stupidity!), a bit more shooty power outside of 'just play Tzeentch' and SOMETHING to make the army viable against Derp Knights.

If we keep the deep strike rules then we better get something to stop us getting shot up besides hoping that our deep strike keeps us out of los, even if it's something simple like the Warp Talon's rule (blinding everyone in so many inches) to a 4+ cover save, or even being able to assault the turn we deep strike (maybe on an int test or something? Although Nurgle wouldn't be pleased if it was on an int test....
And maybe something better than just fear.. I mean that rule is just weak as, especially since half the armies ignore it...
[/rant]


Can't wait to see the rules for the new toys, and what changes are made...

 Matt.Kingsley wrote:
If we keep the deep strike rules then we better get something to stop us getting shot up besides hoping that our deep strike keeps us out of los, even if it's something simple like the Warp Talon's rule (blinding everyone in so many inches) to a 4+ cover save, or even being able to assault the turn we deep strike (maybe on an int test or something? Although Nurgle wouldn't be pleased if it was on an int test....
And maybe something better than just fear.. I mean that rule is just weak as, especially since half the armies ignore it...
[/rant]


Can't wait to see the rules for the new toys, and what changes are made...

Why not just Deep Strike into cover? Solves alot of problems for my own warp gribblies, and unless my dice are insanely borked, at most I lose maybe 2-3 models out of an entire wave... Hardly something to fear.
We really do need though;
a) Some kind of defense against Warp Quake!!! I'm sick of 5-10min games just because I lose one dice-off.
b) Cheaper Icons. 25pts is so insanely over-costed, it makes you wonder what kind of drugs Alessio was high on at the time to think that even remotely viable.
c) Maybe an upgrade for a Slaaneshii unit or two to assault from Deep Strike similar to Vanguard Vets. Or better yet, just make it a rule for Furies - they'd even be worth taking at their current pts cost if they could do that!

Fear is fine. It works exactly the same in Fantasy, and can win you games even though there's a huge long list of units and whole armies who are immune to it.
It works every single round of combat, meaning against non-Loyalist Marines, it should kick in at least once or twice a game. It's really a perk more than anything, and a good one too when you get it to work, just like the Changeling.


And yes, new toys is cause for much-much excitement!!!

If the rumors are true, then aparently Mr.Vetock has written our new rules for both game - which should cause every single non-daemonic Fantasy player to jump for fething joy!

Cannot WAIT for these. I loathe Nurgle stuff, but those fly-jetbikes sound cool even to me.

Experiment 626 wrote:


If the rumors are true, then aparently Mr.Vetock has written our new rules for both game - which should cause every single non-daemonic Fantasy player to jump for fething joy!

Not quite sure what you mean by that-Vetock wrote Ogres (most powerful 8th book) and Skaven (insanely good). If anything, it'll adjust points but still have them be awesome. He didn't weaken Skaven or Ogres, he made them better. So time will tell on whether non-daemon fantasy players will be ecstatic or not.

 timetowaste85 wrote:

Experiment 626 wrote:


If the rumors are true, then aparently Mr.Vetock has written our new rules for both game - which should cause every single non-daemonic Fantasy player to jump for fething joy!

Not quite sure what you mean by that-Vetock wrote Ogres (most powerful 8th book) and Skaven (insanely good). If anything, it'll adjust points but still have them be awesome. He didn't weaken Skaven or Ogres, he made them better. So time will tell on whether non-daemon fantasy players will be ecstatic or not.

Skaven was his first book, so can be somewhat forgiven for the absolute mess it turned out to be.
He did however knock the SAD style army on the head though - remember the howls of rage from powergamers that Ratling Guns now have to roll to-hit for example? Or that Warplightning got nerfed?!
Sure there's new groaners like Hellpits being a bit too good for their pts, there's far too much Ld10, slaves are borderline broken and the Doomwheel is still a rules disaster. But it was his first army book and his Orcs & Gobbos book is solid. (though the magic items section is beyond awful!)

Ogres was a project he co-wrote with Jervis. So no one can know for sure if the excesses were more Vetock or Jervis. The chariot cannon is beyond silly, and Mournfangs are nasty while they have that one magic item that can be near auto-death for Undead.
Mind you, considering how pants Ogres were all through 7th, it's good to see them getting some love, and the power creep in the Ogres book is absolutely nothing compared to the power creep we've been dealing with in the recent past! (DoC ---> DE's ---> WoC being the unholy trinity of doom!)



Mind you, I probably should have said that Vetock being rumored to be writting the new Daemons book means every non-Daemon player will be jumping for fething joy because it's at least not Mr."Well, they're DAEMONS!1!!!" Ward again!

Excited for this, been looking to start Daemons this year for a while now.

Have to say that due to the ever spiralling prices and slightly suspect art direction that the last couple of updates have featured, I'm going to use as many 3rd party minis as poss to build a truly chaotic army, so the codex will be my only likely purchase unless the fly riders are made of awesome.

Experiment 626 wrote:

 timetowaste85 wrote:

Experiment 626 wrote:


If the rumors are true, then aparently Mr.Vetock has written our new rules for both game - which should cause every single non-daemonic Fantasy player to jump for fething joy!

Not quite sure what you mean by that-Vetock wrote Ogres (most powerful 8th book) and Skaven (insanely good). If anything, it'll adjust points but still have them be awesome. He didn't weaken Skaven or Ogres, he made them better. So time will tell on whether non-daemon fantasy players will be ecstatic or not.

Skaven was his first book, so can be somewhat forgiven for the absolute mess it turned out to be.
He did however knock the SAD style army on the head though - remember the howls of rage from powergamers that Ratling Guns now have to roll to-hit for example? Or that Warplightning got nerfed?!
Sure there's new groaners like Hellpits being a bit too good for their pts, there's far too much Ld10, slaves are borderline broken and the Doomwheel is still a rules disaster. But it was his first army book and his Orcs & Gobbos book is solid. (though the magic items section is beyond awful!)

Ogres was a project he co-wrote with Jervis. So no one can know for sure if the excesses were more Vetock or Jervis. The chariot cannon is beyond silly, and Mournfangs are nasty while they have that one magic item that can be near auto-death for Undead.
Mind you, considering how pants Ogres were all through 7th, it's good to see them getting some love, and the power creep in the Ogres book is absolutely nothing compared to the power creep we've been dealing with in the recent past! (DoC ---> DE's ---> WoC being the unholy trinity of doom!)



Mind you, I probably should have said that Vetock being rumored to be writting the new Daemons book means every non-Daemon player will be jumping for fething joy because it's at least not Mr."Well, they're DAEMONS!1!!!" Ward again!

That's fair. Actually, I probably came of sounding like I didn't like Vetock's work. This is hardly the case: Vetock is probably my favorite writer in the company. I don't think Ogres are OP beyond belief, just the best of the 8th books that have come out so far (which are all fairly well in line with each other, even though some like Empire are lackluster). I know he took focus away from Skaven shooting and made them more melee, but the melee...wow. It's good. Of course, I'm the jerk who took a Grey Seer, Engineer with Doom Rocket, Clanrats, Stormvermin with Storm Banner, Censor Bearers and a Hellpit to a 1000 point tournament. So...melee...yeah, it's solid. Damn good, really. But it's not a forgiving army, and even though it has power, it can blow itself up (fairly easily, as it turns out). O&G are another totally solid, and quite good, army that he did. We'll see how he handled the DA book when it hits shelves, but he's shown that he's got fantasy down fairly well at this point, for being a fairly new writer. Hope he keeps up the good work.

 timetowaste85 wrote:

That's fair. Actually, I probably came of sounding like I didn't like Vetock's work. This is hardly the case: Vetock is probably my favorite writer in the company. I don't think Ogres are OP beyond belief, just the best of the 8th books that have come out so far (which are all fairly well in line with each other, even though some like Empire are lackluster). I know he took focus away from Skaven shooting and made them more melee, but the melee...wow. It's good.

We'll say we both goof'ed and call it evensies!

I think it's more or less that Mr.Vetock is still 'new' by army book/codex standards though which leads alot of people to forgetting he's only got what, 2-and-a-half books under his belt so far?

 timetowaste85 wrote:
Of course, I'm the jerk who took a Grey Seer, Engineer with Doom Rocket, Clanrats, Stormvermin with Storm Banner, Censor Bearers and a Hellpit to a 1000 point tournament. So...melee...yeah, it's solid. Damn good, really. But it's not a forgiving army, and even though it has power, it can blow itself up (fairly easily, as it turns out). O&G are another totally solid, and quite good, army that he did. We'll see how he handled the DA book when it hits shelves, but he's shown that he's got fantasy down fairly well at this point, for being a fairly new writer. Hope he keeps up the good work.

Now I must say, as any self-respecting Skaven player knows, there is no such thing as a disastrous misfire, rather, you simply suffered a catastrophic success!

 timetowaste85 wrote:

Experiment 626 wrote:


If the rumors are true, then aparently Mr.Vetock has written our new rules for both game - which should cause every single non-daemonic Fantasy player to jump for fething joy!

Not quite sure what you mean by that-Vetock wrote Ogres (most powerful 8th book) and Skaven (insanely good). If anything, it'll adjust points but still have them be awesome. He didn't weaken Skaven or Ogres, he made them better. So time will tell on whether non-daemon fantasy players will be ecstatic or not.

I'd be happy if daemons stayed mostly the way they are now. The only thing I really want to see go away is rolling for which wave I get.

Yeah, I'd be okay with that. But they'd never do a full codes with that being the only change. They might make new models and only update a couple rules, but sadly, I'd expect more than only one rule change: otherwise they'd WD it.

choosing the wave would make the army much less random that would be forsure. kind of like picking your drop pods.

It'd be nice if you could start some stuff on the table. I never liked the whole "My army shows up to an empty field for no apparent reason and then DAEMONS EVERYWHERE!" part of Codexaemons.

If the idea is to represent a daemonic incursion or infestation, then maybe let's have it underway by the time the battle begins.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
It'd be nice if you could start some stuff on the table. I never liked the whole "My army shows up to an empty field for no apparent reason and then DAEMONS EVERYWHERE!" part of Codexaemons.

If the idea is to represent a daemonic incursion or infestation, then maybe let's have it underway by the time the battle begins.

Or rather, it's more like, your army has seen the skies turn multi-coloured and rain frogs/rats/blood/whatever and they know something's up and are preparing their defensive positions before the Daemons finally erupt from the immaterium.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
It'd be nice if you could start some stuff on the table. I never liked the whole "My army shows up to an empty field for no apparent reason and then DAEMONS EVERYWHERE!" part of Codexaemons.

If the idea is to represent a daemonic incursion or infestation, then maybe let's have it underway by the time the battle begins.

Perhaps the option to start something on the field, but I don't want a requirement to do so. Letting my opponent go first and denying him an entire turn of shooting is nice. Other than rolling for which wave I get, I'm pretty happy with how Daemons deploy.

via 75Hastings69 over on Warseer wrote:
I was under the impression that the khorne chariot was either built for a herald or built with a cannon option, not heard about this troop carrying option.

Autocannon strength blast weapon? Crazy talk! If they were planning on something like that, they may as well have put it in the BRB weapons summary, to futureproof it a little. Maybe call it something cool like a Macro-cannon.

Furies as Vanguard vets makes a lot of sense for making them useful.

Some of the Chariot Alt builds would be good for expanding the Heavy Support section, like this Khorne cannon. More Daemonforge stuff would also be nice.

Psychic power wise, I'd like to see Daemons be brought into line with everyone else, so psychic defenses work against them (psychic defenses work against the warp, which Daemons are a part of afterall) but just have Daemons ignore perils results. Then give them the three god aligned lores from the CSM book, and Divination, Telepathy, and Biomancy which match Tzeentch, Slaanesh, and Nurgle rather well respectively.

Faeit:

"Daemons
Daemons are currently one of those armies that I think really needs an update. While we had one just a few months back, it has lead to a lot of simple armies of nothing but screamers and flamers. Now do not get me wrong, I don't want to get down on people that are doing that, as they are amazing units, but for what they do with two wounds each, the point cost for them is incredible. I would go as far as saying that screamers might be the best overall single unit in the game right now. After all 3 base attacks at S5 AP2 with armourbane on a 2 wound T4 jebike that cannot be insta killed. Just put them in units of 9 (max) and go to town.

While I would really like to see a full codex release, it appears that a White Dwarf update is in the works. This is great, Slaanesh and Tzeentch received updates in the last one, so I am looking forward to seeing what looks like a Khorne and Nurgle update hit. I miss seeing those unruly Bloodletters hitting the battlefield in mass.

Now that we are getting lots of rumors about Daemons, they really are giving us the feel that they are coming next. While its always hard to tell for sure if the rumors are feeding off of each other, it does appear that we are getting a lot of the information from different sources.

So if Daemons are indeed scheduled for February, I am going to take the assumption that it means we will see pre-orders hit at the end of that month, and the release hit the first week of March."

MajorWesJanson wrote:
Autocannon strength blast weapon? Crazy talk! If they were planning on something like that, they may as well have put it in the BRB weapons summary, to futureproof it a little. Maybe call it something cool like a Macro-cannon.

Furies as Vanguard vets makes a lot of sense for making them useful.

Some of the Chariot Alt builds would be good for expanding the Heavy Support section, like this Khorne cannon. More Daemonforge stuff would also be nice.

Psychic power wise, I'd like to see Daemons be brought into line with everyone else, so psychic defenses work against them (psychic defenses work against the warp, which Daemons are a part of afterall) but just have Daemons ignore perils results. Then give them the three god aligned lores from the CSM book, and Divination, Telepathy, and Biomancy which match Tzeentch, Slaanesh, and Nurgle rather well respectively.

Tzeentch without Pryomancy would be like an Eldar Farseer who's suddenly become iliterate and starts reading those runes of witnessing backwards.

Divination makes more sense for ol' Fateweaver, remember how Tzeentch couldn't see the future so he threw Fateweaver in and he emerged all "I can see the past and future but not the present!"