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Made in dk
Dakka Veteran




Bloodhorror wrote:
2 str 10 hits from a flyrant when it smashes...

230 points. Don't whine.


I whine as much as I want to!

No I actually wasn't whining at all, I'm not even sure if it's true until I see it, though I did like your humour.

It's just that a Tyrant is known to have another role, like giving bonuses and the sort where a Bloodthirster are known to be one of the ultimate close combat monsters of the game. It's not that much better than a Terminator with a Power Fist when it comes to destroying vehicles.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/02/27 13:37:41


Andy Chambers wrote:
To me the Chaos Space Marines needed to be characterised as a threat reaching back to the Imperium's past, a threat which had refused to lie down and become part of history. This is in part why the gods of Chaos are less pivotal in Codex Chaos; we felt that the motivations of Chaos Space Marines should remain their own, no matter how debased and vile. Though the corrupted Space Marines of the Traitor Legions make excellent champions for the gods of Chaos, they are not pawns and have their own agendas of vengeance, empire-building vindication or arcane study which gives them purpose. 
   
Made in us
Ruthless Interrogator





Ann Arbor, MI

airmang wrote:How does S6 really hurt a bloodthirster?
Base STR matters a lot when you're a FMC. Vector Strikes are probably Khorne Daemons' best hope for anti-air, and S6 won't cut it.
   
Made in us
Dark Angels Librarian with Book of Secrets






Connecticut

aliusexalio wrote:
I was okay with it not being the best army. I was also aware that Tzeentch was more competitive. However right now I fail to see how Khorne is getting any kind of boost? Reroll charge distance? Great, with demonic assault I could deepstrike all over the board, now I've got to actually WALK my units of bloodletters across the table with their 3 TOUGHNESS and then charge into a space marine tactical squad which previously I had a chance of killing because of my AP3 hellblades (which was fair because I'd lose about half the squad in 1 shooting phase and the subsequent overwatch).... but now?
* You can still deepstrike them
* They are cheaper
* Hellblades are still AP3
* Overwatch can be mitigated. Look at CSM allies for 'dirge casters'. Look at the leaked slaanesh spells that deny overwatch.

aliusexalio wrote:
And then 45 points for a T4 3 wounds bulletmagnet, aka Bloodcrusher? Which again only has an AP4 weapon? Why on earth even consider putting it in your army?
Bloodthirster, strenght 6????? I mean seriously, my army is now utter gak. I don't mind not being the best, I don't mind being the least best, but I sure mind being worthless.
* Have you seen the 40k book? Are you looking at Fantasy stats?
* If the CSM codex is any indication, bloodcrushers will be calvary . Moving 12" per turn is huge. T4 or T5, your going to be in assault on turn 2 - espeically with the reroll
* STR 6 is fine for a DP. Your still wounding most stuff on a 2+ and you can smash the rest. Your only at a STR 7 right now.

Personally I'm really excited about breaking out my bloodcrushers. I have two squads of them, and throwing 18 bloodcrushers down someones throat on turn 2 is very hard to deal with. Combined with chariots, beasts, etc, its a huge amount of fast-moving threats that have you have one turn to deal with. Noone is going to be shooting at your bloodletters because your bloodcrushers/chariots will be assaulting them on turn 2. That's a much bigger threat.
That kind of a rush army actually has a good chance to hard-counter necron nightsycthe spam. If you go first, you can be in assault at the top of turn 2, before the flyers come in. Unlike CSM, 20 bloodcrushers + chariots has enough dakka/choppa to kill wraiths, tabling the necron on top of 2. It will also be a hard counter to guard, or most other gunline units.

aliusexalio wrote:
Oh to end my rant "none khorne DPs can buy Psyker levels up to level 3 at 25pts/lvl``



Automatically Appended Next Post:
Chaospling wrote:
Because the Bloodthirster model doesn't look like a S6 creature. It looks at least as tough as the Wraithlord for example and for those of us who want to see connections between rules and models this is just too weird. Yes I know that with Smash it gets to do S10 attacks but 3 S10 attacks from a Bloodthirster model which costs 250 points is still not right in my opinion.
Size of model should not be an indicator of stats. Look at the daemon prince model. Its the same height (without wings).
The bloodthirster is rearing back, while the DP is hunched over. Put them both in proper posture and they are the same height (or very close)


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 ZebioLizard2 wrote:
Well the way you stated it was that it was like you required X daemon to have X effect work on the field at all, so if you didn't have X, it didn't proc at all.
Read further down in my posts good sir You will see that was corrected. I'm not going to go back and edit previous posts accordingly.

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:
But anyways, I'll count the Base IC's by race (I'll count some MC's too)
That's a good amount of work you did, gotta give you credit, but your not being thorough. You should reflect this as a percentage, not just a list. 20 people die each year in the US from dog attacks. If I show you all 20 names it can be quite intimidating. Then you see that its 20 people out of 300,000,000+ and its much less so.

Here is your list given as an -out of- value.
CSM - 4 our of 14 (you can't plan on getting the gift of mutation, its not valid)
DE - 1 out of 12 (though you can give shadow fields)
Eldar - 6 our of 11
GK - 11 out of 15
IG - 0 out of 6
Necrons - 5 out of 10 (including overlords/destoyer lords)
Orks - 2 out of 9
Sisters - 1 out of 6
C:SM - 7 out of 19
BT - 6 out of 7
BA - 6 out of 12
DA - 6 out of 16
SW - 10 out of 13
Tau - 1 out of 5
Nids - 1 out of 6

So, out of 151 ICs, 72 (47.6%) have the capacity to wear 2+ armor. It looks like both of our statements were misleading.
"Most HQ's Have 2+ saves as well." is incorrect. 47.6% is not most.
"Few HQs have a 2+ save" is incorrect. 47.6% is not least.

Now, what you see in your local meta may vary.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 whigwam wrote:
airmang wrote:How does S6 really hurt a bloodthirster?
Base STR matters a lot when you're a FMC. Vector Strikes are probably Khorne Daemons' best hope for anti-air, and S6 won't cut it.
Soul Grinders

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2013/02/27 14:05:53


 
   
Made in be
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Belgium

 zachwho wrote:
Anyone have more specific info for the skull cannon or whatever it is for 40k?? Armor values, hull points, cost, squadrons?


there is only the Blood throne profil for now.

Bloodthrone
bs 0 12/12/10 3 hullpoints.
if the bloodthrone causes at least one hammer of wrath wound he regains a hullpoint on a 4+

a herald on a bloodthrone brings his presence to every khorne unit within 6" instead of only the unit he is in.

open topped transport but can only carry the herald

   
Made in us
Beautiful and Deadly Keeper of Secrets







So, out of 151 ICs, 72 (47.6%) have the capacity to wear 2+ armor. It looks like both of our statements were misleading.


Yes, but one needs to figure out what HQ's are mostly used. You're not for example, going to see Drahzar in most games, but you'll see a higher percentage of Belial and Azrael players.

Course that is Way to much work with hard to find data counter-points.
   
Made in nl
Confessor Of Sins






It's just wrong when Mephiston has the same strength as a Bloodthirster, though.

Or a generic space marine with an axe.

EDIT:
I meant a power maul yes (or relic blade).

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/02/27 16:24:28


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Made in us
Beautiful and Deadly Keeper of Secrets






Or a generic space marine with an axe.


The bloodthirster hasn't been knocked down to S5. Unless there's some really strong captains I'm missing.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/02/27 14:19:58


 
   
Made in us
Dark Angels Librarian with Book of Secrets






Connecticut

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:


So, out of 151 ICs, 72 (47.6%) have the capacity to wear 2+ armor. It looks like both of our statements were misleading.


Yes, but one needs to figure out what HQ's are mostly used. You're not for example, going to see Drahzar in most games, but you'll see a higher percentage of Belial and Azrael players.

Course that is Way to much work with hard to find data counter-points.
Your best bet there is to look at your local tourney army lists.
There is a strong reason to have a 2+ save and use AP2 weapons. I recently wrote an article on the subject. Sadly, even with a 2+ save, Azrael is a punk because he is T4 without EW and wields an AP3 weapon. Belial is almost as bad unless he brings a thunder hammer/SS -- a combo I rarely see on him.

One would think that everyone would be bringing 2+ save ICs, but this is not the case. These are the ICs I faced in the past few games
- Sammael
- Ghaz (2+ save)
- Blood Angel Librarian
- Draigo (2+ save)
- Vect (shadow field, sorta a 2+ save)
- Daemon Prince
So in my meta I've been seeing about a 50% 2+ save rate for warlords. Everyone's meta may differ.
Not to get to much off topic, but I was running Abbadon against the majority of those ICs. Abbadon took their lunch money. Any time a warlord got near him, Abbadon went 'fruit ninja' on him.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Shandara wrote:
It's just wrong when Mephiston has the same strength as a Bloodthirster, though.

Or a generic space marine with an axe.
Maybe he was thinking of a power maul.

As previously stated,you cannot use the size of a model to judge stats. What about Epidemius? Look at him tower over those other models. His sword is as big as a space marine! He should be STR 5 or 6 right?


Model size != Model stats.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/02/27 14:36:19


 
   
Made in us
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Regardless, Skull Taker was mostly meant to take on upper level champions.

I wouldn't have minded he kept rending on 4-6, but ID on only 6, but as it is it means he'll be far less effective then a standard Herald (Especially if the SC's can't take the various Locii powers)


As previously stated,you cannot use the size of a model to judge stats. What about Epidemius? Look at him tower over those other models. His sword is as big as a space marine! He should be STR 5 or 6 right?


He does have more attacks, he's also sitting on a palanquin which is giving him more wounds .

This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2013/02/27 14:42:25


 
   
Made in us
Pragmatic Primus Commanding Cult Forces






Southeastern PA, USA

 xole wrote:
The amount of rage here is incredible. It's like everyone consciously forgets what happened the last dozen codices or so.


Overall, I thought there was a fairly positive vibe to this thread compared to how it's been around here lately.


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Made in us
Dark Angels Librarian with Book of Secrets






Connecticut

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:
Regardless, Skull Taker was mostly meant to take on upper level champions.

I wouldn't have minded he kept rending on 4-6, but ID on only 6, but as it is it means he'll be far less effective then a standard Herald (Especially if the SC's can't take the various Locii powers)
Is he? What makes you say that?

I play CSM and daemons as my main army. Any decent CSM player quickly learns how to play 'the challenge game'. Their not that hard to manipulate.
Throw your bloodthirster against the HQ, and use skulltaker to rack up squads or other weaker characters.

I am sad to see that skulltaker will no longer be my go-to for killing ICs. He was great when running fatecrusher because anyone without EW was usually gibbed by him. I guess the rumored drop in 40 points is supposed to take the sting off a bit, eh?

   
Made in us
Ambitious Acothyst With Agonizer





Murfreesboro, TN

One thing to think about for Daemon AA. If its really bad in your area you can go with a quad gun, 3 soul grinders, greater daemon and a daemon prince in one FOC. Prescience is also good for turning any decent strength shooting unit into a poor man's AA unit.

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Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






New Orleans, LA

I'm liking the Spicy Chicken's rules. Daemons of Tzeentch may be a go!

Still want to read the codex first.

And, for the 5th and final time (I promise), those Nurgle flies look stupid as hell.

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Nigel Stillman





Austin, TX

I really like the sound of the new Daemons stuff, I look forward to playing them!

Now this is more Realms-of-Chaos-y which is what I wanted for CSM but didn't get. More movement towards mono-god armylists and some actual animosity stuff. Guess we know what part of Chaos that Fail Kelly spent more time working on!
   
Made in us
Ruthless Interrogator





Ann Arbor, MI

labmouse42 wrote:
whigwam wrote:
airmang wrote:How does S6 really hurt a bloodthirster?
Base STR matters a lot when you're a FMC. Vector Strikes are probably Khorne Daemons' best hope for anti-air, and S6 won't cut it.
Soul Grinders
If Grinders hold on to their S10 AP1 Tongue, they would probably be the next best thing. But if their rumored cost is correct and they still have to choose between Tongue/Phlegm, then I would bet Grinders are quickly headed for overcosted/over-specialized territory. If that's not the case, and Grinders wind up being a cost-effective AA option, great, but that still feels pretty flavorless to me. Call me crazy, but my idea of 'cinematic' gameplay is a Bloodthirster chopping a Vendetta out of the sky. I will accept nothing less.
   
Made in us
Dark Angels Librarian with Book of Secrets






Connecticut

This is one rumor website I saw, that prices soulgrinders at 135 + god upgrade

Not sure on the validity of the site. One never knows. But if its true, that would make for some cheap AA.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/02/27 15:20:06


 
   
Made in us
Judgemental Grey Knight Justicar




USA

 labmouse42 wrote:
 whigwam wrote:
airmang wrote:How does S6 really hurt a bloodthirster?
Base STR matters a lot when you're a FMC. Vector Strikes are probably Khorne Daemons' best hope for anti-air, and S6 won't cut it.
Soul Grinders

Base STR 7 with an option for STR 8 with Unholy Might was great when you expected to fight a lot of multiple wound models with T4 that didn't have EW. Granted I can Smash, but I really don't see myself running that many MCs, which is what attracted me to the army in the first place.

The army has changed so much that it's almost like GW is removing Daemons from the game and replacing them with something else that uses the same models.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/02/27 15:28:06


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Made in us
Ruthless Interrogator





Ann Arbor, MI

labmouse42 wrote:This is one rumor website I saw, that prices soulgrinders at 135 + god upgrade

Not sure on the validity of the site. One never knows. But if its true, that would make for some cheap AA.
I believe that's their cost now, but you pay a lot on top of the 135 for Tongue or Phlegm. Not sure on the costs exactly since I never field Grinders.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/02/27 15:31:31


 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut







Chaospling wrote:
@Evileyes:

Do you have the Codex? Because other sources states that Hellblades are AP3.


Sorry, I should have been more specific. It's rumoured, that hellblades are dropping to ap4. And this would coincide well with the new vastly reduced points cost. I mean, 10 point's is cheaper than most armies pay just to -give- something a power weapon, let alone a body attached to it. 20 power weapon's at strength 6, with rage, so 3 attacks on the charge? For 10 points a pop? I can't see it personally, but if they were AP4, I could. So it fit's in my mind.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And I beleive the bloodthirster is only strength 6 (Lol, "Only"), because you can now take thing's from an armoury, the same as CSM can do with their own armoury. There is likely some "Super smashy axe of khorne" which gives you strength 10 and +d6 attacks in close combat, or something silly good like that.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/02/27 15:39:18


 
   
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Australia

 Slayer le boucher wrote:
 zachwho wrote:
Anyone have more specific info for the skull cannon or whatever it is for 40k?? Armor values, hull points, cost, squadrons?


there is only the Blood throne profil for now.

Bloodthrone
bs 0 12/12/10 3 hullpoints.
if the bloodthrone causes at least one hammer of wrath wound he regains a hullpoint on a 4+

a herald on a bloodthrone brings his presence to every khorne unit within 6" instead of only the unit he is in.

open topped transport but can only carry the herald



Anyone else read those rules and think they came up with them because of something along these lines?

"Hey we have this fantasy chariot that can carry a hero.. how to we use this in 40k?"
"Make it transport a hero"
"But.. it can't possibly fit his squad"
"Make it transport just the hero"
"But.. we have already built the dex so that heroes give cool buffs, people wont want a hero if they cant get the buff"
"Slap an extra rule on it to give the buff and move on already, the next dex has to be ready monday"

 Fafnir wrote:
Oh, I certainly vote with my dollar, but the problem is that that is not enough. The problem with the 'vote with your dollar' response is that it doesn't take into account why we're not buying the product. I want to enjoy 40k enough to buy back in. It was my introduction to traditional games, and there was a time when I enjoyed it very much. I want to buy 40k, but Gamesworkshop is doing their very best to push me away, and simply not buying their product won't tell them that.
 
   
Made in us
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Somewhere in GA

One thing is for sure for me. My Deathguard will be able to run with hordes of cheap Plaguebearers. Even if they are only T4 with a Herald needed to give FNP, I will have fun.

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 paulson games wrote:

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Mohoc wrote:
One thing is for sure for me. My Deathguard will be able to run with hordes of cheap Plaguebearers. Even if they are only T4 with a Herald needed to give FNP, I will have fun.


Yeah and 9 points a piece I can field all 49 of mine for under 500 points. Throw a couple heralds out there for about 60 a pop and you've got some healthy units.
I'm also pretty happy about T7 GUO - Lv 3 psyker with biomancy.

9k  
   
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Camas, WA

 Swara wrote:
I'm also pretty happy about T7 GUO - Lv 3 psyker with biomancy.

Iron Arm ftw.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/02/27 16:05:45


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Made in us
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Camas, WA

From 4chan vis MVB:

Spoiler:
All deamons still got a 5+ invul, this counts also for every vehicle.



Lesser Gifts:
1: burning blood. each time you take a unsaved wound the enemy that caused the wound suffers d3 s 4 hits with ds 5. no cover saves allowed. those wounds count towards the combat result
2: cleaving strike: each hit on a 6 causes the daemon to strike with double strength (max 10)
3: corrosive breath : flame : s 5 ap 5 assault 1 armorbane
4: spellbreaker: the daemon got the rule adamantium will
5: warpbreath: 18" s 8 ap 4 assault 1 soulblaze
6: warpstalker : the daemon and his unit get +1 on reserve rolls..

you may also decide to change your roll for the
0: magical weapon. the daemon gains a aetherblade (s user ap 2, mastercrafted specialist weapon).
daemons of khorne may take a bloodaxe ( s user ap 2 instand death on 6's specialist weapon),
daemons of tzeentch a stave of change (s+2 ap 4, concussive, specialist weapon. warpcurse: a model slain by the user of this weapon explodes and hits every unit within 6" inculding the user of the stave for d6 s 5 ap - hits) ,
daemons of nurgle a mace of pestilence (s+1 ap - specialist weapon, disease: for each unsaved wound the model has to make a toughness check or suffer another wound without armor/coversaves)

daemons of slaanesh a ghostreaver sword. ( s user ap 5 rending, specialist weapon, ghostreaver: same as the nurgle one but initiative test)

Greater Gifts:
1: corpulence : the daemon got +1 toughness and the special rule it will not die
2. daemonic toughness the daemon got the special rule feel no pain (4+)
3. dark blessing: the daemon may reroll failed invul saves
4 hellfiregaze : 18" s 8 ap 1 assault 1 lance
5 touch of decay the close combat attacks of the daemon got armorbane and lifebane
6 unbreakable skin, the daemon gets a 3+ armor save.

and the 0 if you decide for it:

mighty magical weapon:
you gain a mighty aetherblade (s +1 ap 2 mastercrafted, specialist weapon

daemons of khorne may take a bloodblade: (s user ap 2, specialist weapon, unwieldly, bloodthirst: the wielder gains the special rule rampage
daemons of tzeentch may take the mutating warpblade (s user ap 3, specialist weapon, warpmutation: a character slain with with weapon becomes a chaos spawn on a 2+
daemons of nurgle may take pestielnce sword (s user ap - poison 4+ instand death. specialist weapon, rustbreath: every armor pen throw of 6 is automatically a glancing hit if it wouldnt be a penetrate allready)
daemons of slaanesh may take whip of despair ( 12" s user ap - assault 2w6)

Exalted Gifts:
1: blessed twice: roll twice again on this chart. reroll another 1. xou apply both results without further costs
2: riftbringer: at the end of close combat phase in wich the daemon caused at least 1 unsaved wound you roll 2w6 and add 1 for each 3 unasved wounds the daemon caused. is the sum is 9 or higher a new unit of daemons will be created like the warpstorm table result number 12
3: souleater: at the end of the close combat phase, if the daemon caused at least one unsaved wound you roll a d6. on a 2+ the daemon gains another lifepoint (and may go up to 10 lifepoints)
4: unholy rage : the daemon gains the special rules rampage and rage
5: warpflame. the first time this daemon is slain dont remove him from the game but take him from the table instead. the daemon may come back from reserve with 1 wound remaining.
6: winds of chaos : 24" s 2w6 ap 4 assault 1 3" explosiv. fluktuation : roll the strenght after caling the target, if its 11 or 12 its counting as s10 but is a 5" blast instead of 3"

and the 0 again:
the daemon may take a hellforged artifact of his choise from the armory.. note that these are uniqe and only once taken:

eternal blade: s +1 ap - specialist weapon, honorseeker: at the beginning of the assault phase in wich the wielder is bound to roll a d3. the result will be granted to the wielders WS, initiative and attacks.

grimoire of true names: you may use it at any time in your movement phase. the target hast to be within 24" and at least one model with the special rule daemon has to be within the unit.
is the unit a enemy it has -1 on reserve rolls. is the unit a friendly unit roll a d6. on a 1-2 the all models in the unit (except the user) with the special rule daemon suffer -1 on the reserve rolls. if you roll a 3+ all models with the rule daemon have +2 on their invulnerable saves until your next turn.

portalglyph: may be used once per game. you may place it in the movement phase (does not matter when) place a 3" blast within 12" around the user. and let it scatter 4d6. if the marker goes off the board or cannot be placed it will move the distance so it can be placed (droppod) after that its a vehicle with the following profile : bs 0 12/12/12 hp 1

after placing the portalglyph you roll a d6 at the end of your movement phase. on a 4+ a new unit of d6 daemons (of your choisem horrors, daemonettes, plaguebearers or bloodletters) the unit got no upgrades but counts as a normal unit of its type.

the stone of the damned: at the beginning of the assault phase. every enemy character models that are not daemons have to make a ld test. if it passes, nothing happens. if it loses. the model has -d6 on his ld value. if a model goes below 0 this way. it gets removed instantly without saves allowed.

Psychic Powers
Tzeentch: primaris: 24" s 5 ap 4 assault 2d6, warpflames, soulfire. 1 warpcharge.
for each additional warpcharge you gain a additional d6
1-2: 24" S d6 +1 assault 1 3" explosive, warpflames
3-4: 24" beam s d6+4 ap 2 assault 1 warpflames
5-6: witchfire: 18" s d6+4 ap 1 assault 1 explosive 3" warpflames.

Nurgle:
primaris: witchfire : flame s - ap 3 assault 1 poison 4+
1-2 : witchfire, 12" s 1 ap 2 assault 1 5" blast 4+ poison.
3-4 : blessing, the psyker gains at the beginning of each assault phase a d3. all enemys in base contact have the score reduced on their WS and initiative
5-6 : nova: every enemy within 12" has to do a toughness test or suffer a wound without armor or coversaves allowed. if the unit loses a model it has to do another toughness check and so on and so on.

Slaanesh
primaris : beam ; 24" s 6 ap - rending assault 1
1-2 : malediction, a enemy within 18" has -5 initiative and can not use the special rule counter attack nor can it overwatch
3-4 : 24" focused witchfire. enemy has to do a leaderchip tests or takes a wound without armor or coversaves allowed. if the model dies you nominate another random model in the unit. and so on and so on....
5-6 : nova : 12" every enemy has to roll 2w6 on and take the ld of the result. for every point remaining on this roll the unit suffers a wound without armor or cover saves allowed. after that the units have to do a pinning test-

Banners
horrors can for additional 20 points get the banner of curse... wich once per game causes a additional 2d6 s 4 ds - hits to any unit hit.

nurgle banner is nce per game all models in the unit have poisoned weapons 2+

slanesh: every enemy in base contact with the banner has -3 ws

Skarbrand
ws 10 bs 10 s 6 t 6 w 5 i 10 a 6 ld 9 sv 3+
every unit (friend and foe) within 12" have rage and hatred (everything!)
got a s 5 ap - flamer...
his weapons
murder : s user ap 2 lifebane
deathstrike s user ap 2 armorbane
225 points. his warlord trait is the all attacks cause instant death.

Bloodthirster
250pts
ws 10 bs 10 s 6 t 6 w 5 i 9 a 6 ld 9 Sv 3+
axe of khorne (instantdeath on 6s)
whip of khorne ( 12" s 6 ds 2 assault 1)
may take up to 50 points in daemonic gifts.

Skulltaker
100pts
ws 9 bs 9 s 5 t 4 w 2 i 9 a 4 ld 8 sv3+
always has to accsept and issue challenges.
got eternal warrior and his sword is
s user ap 3 soulblaze and kills on 6's
comes with the adamant will presence.
may take a jugger for 45 points

Karanak
120pts
ws 7 bs 0 s 5 t 5 w 3 i 6 a 4 ld 6 sv 6+
before placing the armys on the board nominate his prey(character). as long as this model is alive karanak rerolls all to hit and to wound rolls against the prey and its unit
got the rage presence from the start.

Flesh Hounds
16pts
ws 5 bs 0 s 4 t 4 w 2 i 4 a 2 ld 7 sv 6+/5++
scouts
collar of khorne: +2 on deny the witch rolls.

Khorne Herald
55pts
ws 7 bs 7 s 5 t 4 w 2 i 6 a 3 ld 6 sv 6+
30 points into gifts
lesser presence of stubborness (may misstranlate here): 10 points the model and his unit have adamantium will
presence of rage : 20 points the model and his unit gain rage
presence of wrath: 25 points the model and his unit got hatred (everything!)
may take a juggernaught 45 points or a
Juggernaut ; +1 t +1 w + 1 a and becomes cavalry.
bloodthrone for 75 points

Bloodthrone
bs 0 12/12/10 3 hullpoints.
if the bloodthrone causes at least one hammer of wrath wound he regains a hullpoint on a 4+

a herald on a bloodthrone brings his presence to every khorne unit within 6" instead of only the unit he is in.

open topped transport but can only carry the herald

Bloodcrushers
ws 5 bs 5 s 5 t 4 w 3 i 4 a 4 ld 7 sv 6+
hellblades. and they cost 5 points more then currently.
cavalry

one may become a bloodhunter for 5 points gaining 1 attack and can take up to 20 points in gifts.
may take instrument, icon and banner.


Bloodletter
10pts
hellblades - ap 3.
WS 5 bs 5 s 4 t 3 w 1 i 4 a 1 ld 7 sv 6+
one may be a hellfighter with the possibility to get up to 20 points in rewards.

one may take instrument of chaos 10 points, (if you deepstrike this unit you may nominate another unit of the same god to deepstrike right after them without reserve roll. in addition the warpstrom table roll of the same god wich wipes on the opposing god you may reroll the d6 if the unit is hit.

one may take ikon of chaos 10 points and may (still a homer but only works for units fo the same god) upgrade that for banner of blood for 10 points. ( the unit may once per game assault 6"+d6 instead of 2d6.

Ku'gath
260pts
ws 6 bs 3 s 6 t7 w 7 i 4 a 6 ld 9

still got his 4+ pieplate but its ap 3 now.
psyker level 1
and can heal 1 w per turn on a single unit of nurglings...

Great Unclean One
190 points
ws 6 bs 3 s 6 t 7 w 6 i 4 a 5 ld 9
psyker level 1
poison (4+)
cann roll for pestilence and biomancy. may be upgraded up to psyker level 3 for 25 pts per level.
may take 50 points of lesser, mighty and exhalted gifts.

Nurgle Herald
ws 5 bs 5 t 5 w 2 i 4 a 3 ld 8
45 points. may take up to 30 points in gifts.
may be psyker up to level 2 for 25 points each.
may take presence of virulence: 10 points the model and its unit got poison 2+
presence of fertility 20 points the model and its unit gain feel no pain.
presence of affliction. 25 points. the model and his unit gains for every 6 on the enemy's to hit rolls instantly attack with s4 ap - and poison 4+ (next to the normal attacks)
palanquin 45 points: gains +2 w +1 a and is bulky.

Plague Drones
42pts (9 max)
can get the 3+ poison for 5 pts per model
can also get instant death attacks for 5+ per model

Plaguebearer
9pts
ws 3 bs 3 s 4 t 4 w 1 i 2 a 1 ld 7
daemon of nurgle so really they are shrouded... but no fnp nor t 5

Nurglings
15 pts
ws 3 bs 3 s 3 t3 w 4 i3 a 4 ld 7
infiltrators

Fateweaver
300pts
ws 1 bs 6 s 5 t 5 w 5 i 2 a 1 ld 9 4+ invul.
can reroll a single dice per turn.
psyker level 4. one head knows all of tzeentch +1 roll on pyromancy and prophecy, the other one knows all tzeentch and 1 roll on telepathy and biomancy you have to decide wich head is used at the start of every turn.

no longer make a ld or dissapear after getting wounded.
no reroll bubble


Lord of Change
230pts
ws 6 bs 6 s 6 t 6 w 5 i 6 a 5 ld 9 and 5+ invul (like every other daemon)
starts as psyker level 2. can get a additional level for the same price as others.
can roll on tzeentch lore and divination.
can take up to 50 points in gifts.

Herald of Tzeentch
45 points
ws 3 bs 4 s 3 t 3 lp 2 i 3 a 2 ld 8
psyker level 1. prophecy and change as powers.
may take up to 30 points in daemonic gifts.
psyker levels up to 3 for 25 points each.
take up to three presences.
presence of tranmorification 10 points ( for each dead horror you place d3 blue horror markers instead of 1)
presence of change 20 points you roll a d6 at the start of each turn. your model and his unit gain the strength of the d6 roll.
presence of conjuration: 25 points +1 strength on the power of psychic powers by the model and his unit.
may take a disk of tzeentch 25 points
Disk of tzeentch: +1 a and jetbike
chariot of tzeentch 50 pts

Chariot of Tzeentch
100 pts flat.
10/10/10 all around 3 hp
flamer on the inside got 3 lp otherwise same profile as the rest.
my take the blue horror upgrade 10 pts (-1 ld for every enemy within 6".
can take up to 20 pts in gifts
open topped, fast, skimmer, chariot.

Flamers
same, but loose awesome flamer attack, replaced with
s4 ap4 and causes warpflame wich basically causes the enemy to force a toughness check after wounds have been caused. if he fails he suffers d3 additional wounds without armor or cover allowed. if he makes the test he gains 6+ feel no pain or if the unit already got feel no pain it becomes better by 1.. they cost the same as of the update.

Screamers
same (and re-roll 1)

Pink Horrors
9pts
ws 3 bs 3 s 3 t 3 w 1 i 3 a 1 ld 7
for psychic tests they add +3 to the ld
Brootherhood of sorcerers
Blue horrors: if a pink horror is slain place a blue horror marker.. at initiative 1 the blue horror attacks causing the enemy unit to suffer one s2 hit with ap -

horrors can only cast change dicipline, not divination.
horrors get 1 warppoint, 2 at unit strength 11-15 and 3 at 16-20. they generate psychic powers at the start of the game like normal psykers but can only roll on tzeentch lore.

2d6 shots base +d6 for each additional warp point. in additon they have access to the other spells of lore of tzeentch, you roll for them like you do with psykers. making them psyker level 3 gives great benefit.

Slaanesh
sadly no named greater daemon.

Keeper of Secrets
170pts
ws 9 bs 6 s 6 t 6 w 5 i 10 a 6 ld 9
psyker level 1
prefered enemy eldar/dark eldar.
can get psyker level up to 3 for same costs as everyone else
can take up to 50 pts in gifts.

Masque
75 pts
ws 7 bs 6 s 4 t 3 w 2 i 7 a ld 8
may take up to hit and run. unnatural reflexes (may reroll failed invul saves)
eternal dance: at the beginning of the shooting phase you decide for wich dance she makes against a single non vehicle unit within 12"

dance of binding: the enemy has -5 WS (minimum 1) can only move d3" only d3" run and only d3" assault. also the unit can only fall back d3"

dance of death: the unit suffers as many strength 1 hits as models are in the unit. these hits have AP 2 and igore cover.

dance of dreaming: the target has -5 bs and cannot overwatch. until the next turn of the mask.

Herald of Slaanesh
45 pts
ws 7 bs 6 s 4 t 3 w 2 i 7 a 4 LD 8
same psyker upgrades as nurgle as well as gifts..
presence same costs.. here are the tiers:

presence of grace : model and unit gains move through cover
presence of agility (30pts) the model and its unit have +5 on its initiative (yes you read that right)
presence of seduction. the model and its unit may reroll to hit rolls in close combat. the user always has to accept challenges or issue them. but the user of the presence decides wich character the enemy takes for the challenge.

slanesh horse. 15
chariot 30
exhalted chariot 80
Steed of slaanesh: +1 a and outflanking and acute senses. also becomes cavalry

Fiends
ws 4 bs 0 s 4 t 4 lp 3 i 6 a 3 ld 7
models that getsin contact by one or more feinds gets -5 to their initiative
they got a 12" aura that decreases enemy psykers LD by 1
35 pts a piece

Seekers
ws 5 bs 4 s 3 t 3 lp 1 i 5 a 3 LD 7
outflank, acute senses
12 points a piece

Daemonettes
9pts
ws 5 bs 4 s 3 t 3 w 1 i 5 a 2 ld 7
rending + 3" run

Daemon Princes
warpsmithed armor with a 3+ armorsave for 20 points.
they can be made heavy support with the corresponding greater deamon (and charakter GD) fromt he same god.

Chaos Furies
ws 3 bs 0 s 4 t 3 w 1 i 4 a 1 ld?
infantry with jumpmodule (like crisis)
Can be to khorne/nurlge/slaanesh/tzeentch

Soulgrinder
135 pts + upgrade to god needed
Comes with close combat weapon and the harvester
Harvester is now a weapon with 2 profiles...
autocannon with 6 shots
autocannon with 3 shots and skyfire
Can can get the flamer (wich is now torrent) for 20
phlegm for 30
tounge for 25 points

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Made in ca
Evasive Pleasureseeker



Lost in a blizzard, somewhere near Toronto

Thanks for those Pretre!
However, I still get the impression that there's some mixing up of 40k/Fantasy stats in there... (ie: Flesh Hounds have 2 wounds in Fantasy)

I am however getting more and more excited for the new books! Being a Tzeentch player, change is a good thing!

 
   
Made in us
Warp-Screaming Noise Marine






Experiment 626 wrote:
Thanks for those Pretre!
However, I still get the impression that there's some mixing up of 40k/Fantasy stats in there... (ie: Flesh Hounds have 2 wounds in Fantasy)

I am however getting more and more excited for the new books! Being a Tzeentch player, change is a good thing!


Yes I'm still trying to hold all my excitement until I actually have the book in hand. It's hard to do though..

9k  
   
Made in gb
Ian Pickstock




Nottingham

I still don't entirely get how the horror rules work. So a unit of 11 horrors would get 4d6 shots?

Naaa na na na-na-na-naaa.

Na-na-na-naaaaa.

Hey Jude. 
   
Made in us
Nihilistic Necron Lord




The best State-Texas

 BryllCream wrote:
I still don't entirely get how the horror rules work. So a unit of 11 horrors would get 4d6 shots?


3D6.

Initial Charge (2d6)+ 1 Charge= 3D6.

4000+
6000+ Order. Unity. Obedience.
Thousand Sons 4000+
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Made in dk
Dakka Veteran




Strange how cheap the Soul Grinder is compared to the Defiler. It's probably too much to hope for it remains as 13/13/11 HP4.

Andy Chambers wrote:
To me the Chaos Space Marines needed to be characterised as a threat reaching back to the Imperium's past, a threat which had refused to lie down and become part of history. This is in part why the gods of Chaos are less pivotal in Codex Chaos; we felt that the motivations of Chaos Space Marines should remain their own, no matter how debased and vile. Though the corrupted Space Marines of the Traitor Legions make excellent champions for the gods of Chaos, they are not pawns and have their own agendas of vengeance, empire-building vindication or arcane study which gives them purpose. 
   
Made in us
Judgemental Grey Knight Justicar




USA

One of the Tzeentch powers has 'explosive' listed as an effect. I don't see that anywhere in the rulebook, what does it mean?

Also, I don't know that I'm crazy about only getting 3D6 shots out of a 11 strong Horror unit when they used to get 33 guaranteed, even if the shots have the potential to be of higher strength.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/02/27 17:34:43


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