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Chaospling wrote:
Strange how cheap the Soul Grinder is compared to the Defiler. It's probably too much to hope for it remains as 13/13/11 HP4.

Not strange at all when it looks like the basic version comes with just 2 guns and the mandetory need to upgrade it to one of the 4 gods.

Going by the current rumors, it looks pretty barebones at face value and requires at least one forced upgrade, (which likely isn't free), and then requires even more upgrades for different firing modes.
Fully upgraded it looks like the things will cost upwards of 250-270+ pts!

Experiment 626 wrote:

Chaospling wrote:
Strange how cheap the Soul Grinder is compared to the Defiler. It's probably too much to hope for it remains as 13/13/11 HP4.

Not strange at all when it looks like the basic version comes with just 2 guns and the mandetory need to upgrade it to one of the 4 gods.

Going by the current rumors, it looks pretty barebones at face value and requires at least one forced upgrade, (which likely isn't free), and then requires even more upgrades for different firing modes.
Fully upgraded it looks like the things will cost upwards of 250-270+ pts!

It already starts with a Six Shot autocannon, and a three shot auto against flyers. You really don't need much else.

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

Experiment 626 wrote:

Chaospling wrote:
Strange how cheap the Soul Grinder is compared to the Defiler. It's probably too much to hope for it remains as 13/13/11 HP4.

Not strange at all when it looks like the basic version comes with just 2 guns and the mandetory need to upgrade it to one of the 4 gods.

Going by the current rumors, it looks pretty barebones at face value and requires at least one forced upgrade, (which likely isn't free), and then requires even more upgrades for different firing modes.
Fully upgraded it looks like the things will cost upwards of 250-270+ pts!

It already starts with a Six Shot autocannon, and a three shot auto against flyers. You really don't need much else.

But a mark is mandatory, so it's a minimum of 150 points. So it's basically a quad gun, with one less shot, and the ability to defend itself in melee, for 150 points.

 Swara wrote:
Yeah and 9 points a piece I can field all 49 of mine for under 500 points. Throw a couple heralds out there for about 60 a pop and you've got some healthy units.

I'm also pretty happy about T7 GUO - Lv 3 psyker with biomancy.

Well, a fellow on Warseer supposedly got the book today and is answering questions. GUO is supposedly T6...? 6 Wounds? Whoopee.

Evileyes wrote:

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

Experiment 626 wrote:

Chaospling wrote:
Strange how cheap the Soul Grinder is compared to the Defiler. It's probably too much to hope for it remains as 13/13/11 HP4.

Not strange at all when it looks like the basic version comes with just 2 guns and the mandetory need to upgrade it to one of the 4 gods.

Going by the current rumors, it looks pretty barebones at face value and requires at least one forced upgrade, (which likely isn't free), and then requires even more upgrades for different firing modes.
Fully upgraded it looks like the things will cost upwards of 250-270+ pts!

It already starts with a Six Shot autocannon, and a three shot auto against flyers. You really don't need much else.

But a mark is mandatory, so it's a minimum of 150 points. So it's basically a quad gun, with one less shot, and the ability to defend itself in melee, for 150 points.

And with Slaanesh it's a Quad Gun with Rending. (Or is that only in CC)

Experiment 626 wrote:

Chaospling wrote:
Strange how cheap the Soul Grinder is compared to the Defiler. It's probably too much to hope for it remains as 13/13/11 HP4.

Not strange at all when it looks like the basic version comes with just 2 guns and the mandetory need to upgrade it to one of the 4 gods.

Going by the current rumors, it looks pretty barebones at face value and requires at least one forced upgrade, (which likely isn't free), and then requires even more upgrades for different firing modes.
Fully upgraded it looks like the things will cost upwards of 250-270+ pts!

Hold your horses! Upgrades for 115-135 points!? Where do you get this from?

As it is now you only have to pay for the Mark and still 135 points for 13/13/11 and HP4 is very cheap.

 undertow wrote:
One of the Tzeentch powers has 'explosive' listed as an effect. I don't see that anywhere in the rulebook, what does it mean?

Also, I don't know that I'm crazy about only getting 3D6 shots out of a 11 strong Horror unit when they used to get 33 guaranteed, even if the shots have the potential to be of higher strength.

Well, for one you do get more psychic powers, so Horrors can be a lot more versatile. The Primaris power also starts at strength 5, so that's already 1 higher than Warpflame was. Horrors are also 8 points cheaper a piece as well. They will probably need a Herald to really shine though.

 Sasori wrote:

 undertow wrote:
One of the Tzeentch powers has 'explosive' listed as an effect. I don't see that anywhere in the rulebook, what does it mean?

Also, I don't know that I'm crazy about only getting 3D6 shots out of a 11 strong Horror unit when they used to get 33 guaranteed, even if the shots have the potential to be of higher strength.

Well, for one you do get more psychic powers, so Horrors can be a lot more versatile. The Primaris power also starts at strength 5, so that's already 1 higher than Warpflame was. Horrors are also 8 points cheaper a piece as well. They will probably need a Herald to really shine though.

Yeah, a Herald with Prescience would help make up some of the lost ground. Also, that conjuration locus would appear to take the horrors' shooting up to s6, which ain't shabby.

Edit: Pretty sure 'explosive' means 'blast'.

And while the W2 for Flesh Hounds could be a WFB stat, Screamers gained a wound. So it's plausible.

I think the right build for them would be a Lvl 3 Herald with the +1st who takes the tzeentch primaris and then two divination powers. 20 Horrors.

For around 280ish points you get the ability to basically split fire 2d6 St6 twinlinked bs4 shots, 3d6 st6 twinlinked bs3 shots and a St. d6+5 beam for some anti-tank. Seems solid to me.

The only trouble I see is you want to use them last if you're doing other shooting as you don't want to inadvertantly give a unit FnP against future shots in the same round. I hope that Warp Flames isn't cumalitve but from what we've seen it will be.

Personally, I'm looking forward to the horde. The fact that I can get 120 daemons for less than 1200pts is disgustingly fun!

And what is the Tzeentch Primaris?

 gorgon wrote:

 Sasori wrote:

 undertow wrote:
One of the Tzeentch powers has 'explosive' listed as an effect. I don't see that anywhere in the rulebook, what does it mean?

Also, I don't know that I'm crazy about only getting 3D6 shots out of a 11 strong Horror unit when they used to get 33 guaranteed, even if the shots have the potential to be of higher strength.

Well, for one you do get more psychic powers, so Horrors can be a lot more versatile. The Primaris power also starts at strength 5, so that's already 1 higher than Warpflame was. Horrors are also 8 points cheaper a piece as well. They will probably need a Herald to really shine though.

Yeah, a Herald with Prescience would help make up some of the lost ground. Also, that conjuration locus would appear to take the horrors' shooting up to s6, which ain't shabby.

Fair enough. I'm really trying to wait to have the book in my hands before casting judgement.

I don't know that I'll run ANY MCs in my lists, given the current rumors.

So whats up with the 6+ save I keep seeing? Don't demons still keep their 5++ save? So why the 6+ one?

Probably fantasy. Where you can take your armor save and take your ward after if you fail.

Wait, what about the blue scribes? They still in the book?

chaos0xomega wrote:
Wait, what about the blue scribes? They still in the book?

I assume that. They released a new miniature for them half a year ago.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

aliusexalio wrote:
So whats up with the 6+ save I keep seeing? Don't demons still keep their 5++ save? So why the 6+ one?

Daemons in fantasy have always had a 6+ save IIRC. Never played them myself (nor against them )

 thenoobbomb wrote:

Daemons in fantasy have always had a 6+ save IIRC. Never played them myself (nor against them )

You recall incorrectly. Daemons always had a 5+ Ward/Daemonic save. This 6+ thing is new and ONLY a Khorne thing, at least for the Fantasy side(it's a Scaly Skin save there).

 Platuan4th wrote:

 thenoobbomb wrote:

Daemons in fantasy have always had a 6+ save IIRC. Never played them myself (nor against them )

You recall incorrectly. Daemons always had a 5+ Ward/Daemonic save. This 6+ thing is new and ONLY a Khorne thing, at least for the Fantasy side(it's a Scaly Skin save there).

Ah, thanks for that.
Must have been another army then

 thenoobbomb wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:
Wait, what about the blue scribes? They still in the book?

I assume that. They released a new miniature for them half a year ago.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

aliusexalio wrote:
So whats up with the 6+ save I keep seeing? Don't demons still keep their 5++ save? So why the 6+ one?

Daemons in fantasy have always had a 6+ save IIRC. Never played them myself (nor against them )

Blue Scribes reportidly work exactly as their Fantasy version now; pick a BRB psychic lore, roll random power and auto-cast it w/out test. (and likely no swapingfor the primaris power either)


Daemons typically don't wear armour, even in Fantasy.
The main exceptions have been that Khornate units have typically either had light/heavy armour, Juggers acting like sudo armour & characters getting access to the likes of 'Armour of Khorne'. Nurgle has occasionally also had characters gaining access to a 4+ or 5+ save.

However, back in the day, IIRC any undecided daemonic character auto-gained Chaos Armour for a basic 4+ save, while Khorne characters could purchase it.

 Hulksmash wrote:
Personally, I'm looking forward to the horde. The fact that I can get 120 daemons for less than 1200pts is disgustingly fun!

Thing only thing that I'm worried about is the time to play it. Bringing 120+ models makes it hard to finish a game in 2.5 hours.

 labmouse42 wrote:

 Hulksmash wrote:
Personally, I'm looking forward to the horde. The fact that I can get 120 daemons for less than 1200pts is disgustingly fun!

Thing only thing that I'm worried about is the time to play it. Bringing 120+ models makes it hard to finish a game in 2.5 hours.

The good thing about it is, you can either take lot's of troops, and make a horde army, or bring elites, fast attack, heavy support and HQ's in abundance, and use a small amount of very powerfull unit's to protect your minimal troops.

It's either horde, or elite, depending on how you play it

Meh, I currently move, shoot, and sometimes fight in assault two large blobs that always have prescience on them. 120 models which won't be taking place in every phase or rerolling everything will be fine

This is what I'm thinking of trying when the codex comes out.
- 20 Plague Bearers
- 40 Bloodletters (just because I own the models)
- 40 Daemonettes
- 18 Screamers
- 3 Seeker Chariots
- 2 Soulgrinders
- 2 Heralds of Khorne on Juggs in the Bloodletter squads
- Bloodthister/LoC/Fateweaver

I guess with a little practice that would be doable. The trick is to pull models from the back and put in the front when playing them.
(Those are the models I own btw, that's why I am thinking of it)

I feel like I might go for one unit of Screamers and two large units of Steeds of Slaanesh. They are insanely fast and at 12ppm they're a steal. In fact I can see Daemonettes and Horrors being extremely popular with a unit or two 10 Plaguebearers in cover on objectives constantly going to ground for a 3++.

 Hulksmash wrote:
I feel like I might go for one unit of Screamers and two large units of Steeds of Slaanesh. They are insanely fast and at 12ppm they're a steal. In fact I can see Daemonettes and Horrors being extremely popular with a unit or two 10 Plaguebearers in cover on objectives constantly going to ground for a 3++.

Yeah, that's one of the plus sides I've seen from Daemonic instability. We pass all Fear, Morale and Pinning tests, but we're not 'Fearless', which means we can Go to Ground and back off from combat from things we can't hurt.

I'm trying to see the silver lining.

Yeah, I'm liking Seekers too. Plus 3" to running would have been good...+6" is stupidly good. And at 12 pts per with that kind of speed and acute senses, I don't even hate them for outflanking.

Msu horrors clocking in at 45 points for 5 sounds like a good deal to me.

The unit minimum on all troops is rumored to have gone up to 10. So 90pts is the minimum.

Well, I'm going to have to get more daemonettes and seekers!

And convert fiends, and finish my KoS conversion...

May have to invest in the Masque too, now...


Also, the more I look at the rumoured slaanesh rules, -1 I isn't too bad, -1 attack isn't bad either, really.
No grenades is a bit of a blow, but oh well, again not gamebreakingly bad

Agility, sounds look, but useless. I10 slaanesh daemonettes, bit excessive?

MtC ability might be good, though.

Seduction is pretty cool for an assassin herald, give her one of the Aetherblades or the Honoursword (again, assuming rumors are true) and kill them. Not a SC killer for the most part, but really good.

 Matt.Kingsley wrote:
Well, I'm going to have to get more daemonettes and seekers!

And convert fiends, and finish my KoS conversion...

May have to invest in the Masque too, now...


Also, the more I look at the rumoured slaanesh rules, -1 I isn't too bad, -1 attack isn't bad either, really.
No grenades is a bit of a blow, but oh well, again not gamebreakingly bad

Agility, sounds look, but useless. I10 slaanesh daemonettes, bit excessive?

MtC ability might be good, though.

Seduction is pretty cool for an assassin herald, give her one of the Aetherblades or the Honoursword (again, assuming rumors are true) and kill them. Not a SC killer for the most part, but really good.

Seekers won't be slowed down by difficult terrain because they're cavalry, but then will pass all their dangerous terrain tests thanks to MtC. Heh. And that's while they move 20+" each turn.

yeah, I keep forgetting about the no Dangerous terrain tests...

Seeker Herald with MtC would be good...