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Worst bit (apart from being Australian) is probably that sad blog they call "What's New Today". Something that has lots of potential but more than half the time is wasted on showing 'pretty pictures'. Sure I can understand using it to show off new releases etc. but I really don't think it's sole purpose should be a tool to look at some nicely painted miniatures. Why not any actual modelling or painting articles? Why not even give Jervis control of the Blog once a month or something? Just something besides 'pretty pictures'!!!!

The worst thing about the GW hobby right now?

The whiny fanbase that need their hobby spoonfed to them.

 Easy E wrote:
The whiny fanbase that need their hobby spoonfed to them.

Not really sure what you mean.

 Sidstyler wrote:

 Easy E wrote:
The whiny fanbase that need their hobby spoonfed to them.

Not really sure what you mean.

Who knows. I just find the comment a little ironic considering most people in this thread are lamenting GW doing just that with the ROBB.

 jonolikespie wrote:
I don't know about the upstairs guys but the one time I tried to play my IG with pig iron heads I was told by the guys in there I couldn't because it is a GW store, they let you play games in there to show of their models, that way when someone walking past sticks their head in and goes "oooh, I like that where can I buy one?" they are directed to a shelf, not someone else's website[...]

Agreed, this attitude is horrible (though kind of understandable). Recently a lot of people started complaining about this very policy until our store manager budged and allowed head conversions for starters. Considering a lot of our shop goers love to do conversions, staying hard on the "no 3rd party content" rule would have meant a lot of money loss in the long term.

As for the topic at hand, it's not certain official policies, not the cost (heck, the stuff should technically cost more for all the work behind it), not even a certain M. Ward. No, for me it's neck-beards and tournament idiots who always need the most hardcore list even to a relaxed day game because they simply don't get it into their heads the game is supposed to be fun and not about stomping everyone in range into the ground. Even the kids learn that. Incidentially, our kids have better painted armies than most tournament dudes, whose armies are nearly always super grey.

I am a fairly new hobbiest. I joined in 2007 and have been an avid gamer and hobbiest until a few months ago. Last November long time manager of my local GW moved to Cali. He was a good guy and always included me despite my young age. He helped me with my hobby and didn't try to shove the newest realease down y throat. With him gone the new manager came, he was a former employee at my local GW. But boy did he change, I understood he had a bussiness to run but he tried to shove the hobby down my throat. I know GW has undergone massive changes in the recent years, but the old manager always kept it at bay and held the hobby co,,umity strong. Now I just kind of dropped out of the hobby, its not that fun to do alone or with people who try to make you buy more gak

One of many many GW bought and loved terrain sets.





Like? Cool!
Dislike? well thats your perogotive too.
I have 0.00% complaints with thier terrain kits.

Ah NN

Worst thing about GW. Being ignorant. Lemme explain...
Two weeks ago I was in the GW Memphis Battle Bunker playing in a 1999+1 tournament. While myself and my cousin are waiting for the third round of fast-paced narrative-driven action to wrap up we are perusing this very website on his laptop. We are sitting on a couch against a wall around a corner. We are the only two people in the whole store who can even see what we are looking at, and it's the box set thread with the leaked pics. Which had already been around for ~24hrs. We are simply talking amongst ourselves when the manager of said location walks up and says

Manager: What are you guys looking at?
Me: Pics of Chaos cultists.
Manager: Seriously guys? Not in the store.
Me: And why exactly is that?
Manager: Come on guys. Not in the store. You can go outside and look. Or in the car, or even down the street, or even in your own homes. Just not in the store.

Before I was able to tirade he shuffled off, and looked upset more than pissed. I realize he can neither confirm or deny the images we were looking at, but his whole approach was way off.
I've been playing CSM for about three years now, and have been hanging on to the hope of a new codex since about the time I realized we got hosed in the land raider department. I've ran my princes and oblits and plague marines waiting for our day in the sun.
Now I'm excited about spending money on models for my army which I can only buy from them and he's telling me not to look at them? Telling. Not asking. I'm 30. Treat me like an adult and I promise I'll act like one.
What he should have said was something along the lines of 'interesting' or 'don't believe everything you read'. We all know better. Just move on.
On our way out the door my cousin asked me if I was going to buy anything. I said no because I wanted to see what happens with the new codex. The manager hears me say this and says "What new codex?"
Seriously, guy. you.

And one more thing, off topic. Earlier tonight I was painting that same cousin's thunderwolf cav and google searched "wolf fur markings" and about 50% or more of the images were furry art. Internet vexes me sometimes.

 Ratius wrote:
I have 2X sets of the RoBG set and a load of GW scenery packs, no regrets whatsoever.
Im just gonna be a petty gakker at this stage and say:
"Hey whatever works for you". L:eave the rest of us to it, thanks.

 Ratius wrote:

I feel like you are trying to send a message of some sort..

Don't get my wrong, your board looks great! But at the same time don't begrudge those who want to try and DIY their own stuff, or that new kids coming into the game are encouraged to use their creativity rather than "just buy this kit!" - which I think is what the eagle-hunting people on this thread are arguing (if that's what you are trying to imply? )

@Sharkvictim,

So you would ask him to deny its existence in one way and when he does it in another way he's fethed up? Have I misunderstood something?

Seems like he asked you nicely to leave the Internet based stuff at home because a) he would get an arse kicking if his boss saw it instore, b) GW like to do their big reveal/surprise! Look what we made thing c) there are plenty of people that will not have seen those pictures and would probably like to be in on the group "wow we're surprised" moment if that is a bunker.

No one like having their chips pissed on, I'm sure he was just trying to ensure the above.

Over here it's common knowledge not to use a laptop in the store because some of the kids do NOT know that, it's to prevent bad examples. But he really could have asked nicely instead. We're all hobbyists, being polite should be a requirement.

notprop wrote:
So you would ask him to deny its existence in one way and when he does it in another way he's fethed up? Have I misunderstood something?

Yes apparently. It's not that he denied the existence of, or any rumor pertaining to, a new CSM codex. It's that I wasn't talking to him. I wasn't even looking in his general direction. He went out of his way to chime in with "What new codex?" with a serious inquisitive tone. In both the laptop and codex scenarios he should have simply shuffled on and left me alone. If it looks like the rumor mill is working in your favor you don't stop it dead in it's tracks, just let it roll.

notprop wrote:
Seems like he asked you nicely to leave the Internet based stuff at home because a) he would get an arse kicking if his boss saw it instore, b) GW like to do their big reveal/surprise! Look what we made thing c) there are plenty of people that will not have seen those pictures and would probably like to be in on the group "wow we're surprised" moment if that is a bunker.

No. He did not ask at all. That is the problem. Had he asked me "Could you not do that in the store please?" I would have responded "Sure, no problem."
Yes. If I were having an open forum showing everyone the pictures, going table to table putting everyone's noses in it, that would be completely my bad. But I wouldn't do that, nor did I. You would almost have to be sitting in my lap literally to have seen what I was looking at.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

SorataZ wrote:But he really could have asked nicely instead. We're all hobbyists, being polite should be a requirement.

Exactly. Now obviously (to some) it's a two-way street, and I try to be friendly and polite every time I go in there. I went to the same store with my cousin last Sunday to play on their new cities of death table* and while we were shooting the breeze with the guys that were up there (painting and modeling, there were only two guys in the building actually playing at the moment) two more guys come in and asked for a 6th ed refresher demo. Me and my cuz offered to split and play teams with these guys to get them up to speed, freeing the GW employee to continue doing what he was doing. Still got to play, still used the CoD table, and helped some dudes get sorted out with the rules a little bit.
*The CoD table at the Memphis bunker is pretty awesome. I make alot of my own terrain, but most of the GW pieces are really good. I thought the skyshield landing pad was stupid until I played with one on the table. Now that it has rules I like it even more. QFT, haters gonna hate.

GW must be the only hobby store I can think of where you can't talk about future releases. I suppose that's what comes of having corporate stores with orders from above to control information, no other model/wargames company exists that has their own dedicated line of store after all.

Most model and wargames stores are run by people enthusiastic about the hobby and engage the customer with banter, sharing rumours and speculating on releases, casual conversation. GW do completely the opposite, shutting down the conversation on topics that are likely of great interest to their customer. It's like they don't understand or appreciate their market, how gamers and modellers work. Maybe this is what GW want in their stores, but it's not how gamers work. Trying to force people's behaviour to fit their mould is just a perverse approach to engaging your own customer base and makes conversations obviously artificial if you know the person working in the store has topics that they will declare out of bounds or flat out untruthfully deny to your face.

 Howard A Treesong wrote:
GW must be the only hobby store I can think of where you can't talk about future releases. I suppose that's what comes of having corporate stores with orders from above to control information, no other model/wargames company exists that has their own dedicated line of store after all.

Most model and wargames stores are run by people enthusiastic about the hobby and engage the customer with banter, sharing rumours and speculating on releases, casual conversation. GW do completely the opposite, shutting down the conversation on topics that are likely of great interest to their customer. It's like they don't understand or appreciate their market, how gamers and modellers work. Maybe this is what GW want in their stores, but it's not how gamers work. Trying to force people's behaviour to fit their mould is just a perverse approach to engaging your own customer base and makes conversations obviously artificial if you know the person working in the store has topics that they will declare out of bounds or flat out untruthfully deny to your face.

Out of interest do Apple disallow the same kind of conversations in their stores? I get the impression that GW seem to be very enamoured with Apple and try to emulate them in any way they can (definitely with several of the managers I've spoken to, they have the impression the only company GW can be compared to WRT how they operate is Apple).

It just strikes me as an odd approach as whilst GW is trying to be "cool and secretive" like Apple they both have completely different markets and customer bases. Whilst they'll cross over at times there's not that many IMO.

I have never been told to not talk about rumours etc in store, normally it has been ok and even staff have joined in.

 Azza007 wrote:
I have never been told to not talk about rumours etc in store, normally it has been ok and even staff have joined in.

To show the other end of the scale, I and several others have been threatened with being banned from my local for talking about then unreleased stuff (Finecast IIRC). The same manager threatened to sack one of their staff if they looked at what I was looking at on my phone.

I depends entirely on the person. The manager that preceded the above one had a good chinwag with me about the GK codex leak, with us both looking at it on my phone instore. Others just like their little power trip. It amused me recently when I went into my local GW a couple of weeks ago and the manager mention about something big happening on sat. Everyone, including several "little timmys" who supposedly do not frequent these kind of sites knew what said announcement was and what the box contained. He was desperately trying to get everyone to hush up about it.

I'm seeing more and more managers fall into the "corporate stooge" bracket. All of the good ones have moved on, along with their old school ways and letting things slide. We once had a manager that loved to hear these things as he was aware (even as far back as 5 years ago) GW told him practically nothing about upcoming releases and welcomed the customers bringing him up to speed with what was supposedly on the horizon.

 Grimtuff wrote:
Out of interest do Apple disallow the same kind of conversations in their stores? I get the impression that GW seem to be very enamoured with Apple and try to emulate them in any way they can (definitely with several of the managers I've spoken to, they have the impression the only company GW can be compared to WRT how they operate is Apple).

It just strikes me as an odd approach as whilst GW is trying to be "cool and secretive" like Apple they both have completely different markets and customer bases. Whilst they'll cross over at times there's not that many IMO.

I would imagine that if someone was in the Apple Store, about to purchase a new laptop that will be "replaced" in a month or two, the employee selling it would be encouraged to move that stock, rather than suggest, "hey, if you wait just one month, you can get the newest greatest PoS laptop that we offer, OR you can buy this one at a slightly lower, yet still greatly inflated price!"

I mean, if a customer already "knows" whats coming down, he/she may be down there just to get that sort of deal anyways... so in some respects I would think that nearly all companies that have their own branded stores would do similar to GW.

That's not how marketing works. If the customer starts feeling betrayed by the company for not getting information, s/he will just move on and buy elsewhere (unless the company has a monopol of sorts).
A customer who gets sufficient information and talk about what s/he wants to know and how to maximise gain for the money will be happy and thus buy again... and again... and again.
Money isn't gained from sales, as oxymoronic as that may sound. First the customer needs a reason to buy. Without a proper reason, the customer is unlikely to buy anything since there is no want here. If the shop manager now sufficiently talks with and convinces the customer and tells them what they need and what they do NOT need (thus saving money) the want turns into a need, and after some more information it turns into a must have. That's when the money flows because now the customer either buys the product... or buys it later.
If the customer now is presented a given product and asks if something better is down the line, gets denied and then finds out that YES THERE WAS a product down the line, said feeling of betrayal sets in. That's a real killer in marketing.

Over here we are glad our shop keeper is the kind of person who engages in rumouring and sometimes in debatte of what might come. He's pretty awesome when it comes to that because he really tells everyone what they need and do not need to maximise gain from money. He's doing it right.

 SorataZ wrote:
That's not how marketing works. If the customer starts feeling betrayed by the company for not getting information, s/he will just move on and buy elsewhere (unless the company has a monopol of sorts).
A customer who gets sufficient information and talk about what s/he wants to know and how to maximise gain for the money will be happy and thus buy again... and again... and again.
Money isn't gained from sales, as oxymoronic as that may sound. First the customer needs a reason to buy. Without a proper reason, the customer is unlikely to buy anything since there is no want here. If the shop manager now sufficiently talks with and convinces the customer and tells them what they need and what they do NOT need (thus saving money) the want turns into a need, and after some more information it turns into a must have. That's when the money flows because now the customer either buys the product... or buys it later.
If the customer now is presented a given product and asks if something better is down the line, gets denied and then finds out that YES THERE WAS a product down the line, said feeling of betrayal sets in. That's a real killer in marketing.

Over here we are glad our shop keeper is the kind of person who engages in rumouring and sometimes in debatte of what might come. He's pretty awesome when it comes to that because he really tells everyone what they need and do not need to maximise gain from money. He's doing it right.

Not exactly the same situation but I get what you're saying, if my local GW redshirt had shown me the 6th starter stuff a month ago and shown me the price I would have set some money aside for it and picked one up, as it is I can't throw together the $180 (au) together with a weeks notice so I am not gonna bother getting it at all at this point and will grab the chaos half (probably off ebay) if I see a new chaos dex is coming out.

 jonolikespie wrote:

 SorataZ wrote:
That's not how marketing works. If the customer starts feeling betrayed by the company for not getting information, s/he will just move on and buy elsewhere (unless the company has a monopol of sorts).
A customer who gets sufficient information and talk about what s/he wants to know and how to maximise gain for the money will be happy and thus buy again... and again... and again.
Money isn't gained from sales, as oxymoronic as that may sound. First the customer needs a reason to buy. Without a proper reason, the customer is unlikely to buy anything since there is no want here. If the shop manager now sufficiently talks with and convinces the customer and tells them what they need and what they do NOT need (thus saving money) the want turns into a need, and after some more information it turns into a must have. That's when the money flows because now the customer either buys the product... or buys it later.
If the customer now is presented a given product and asks if something better is down the line, gets denied and then finds out that YES THERE WAS a product down the line, said feeling of betrayal sets in. That's a real killer in marketing.

Over here we are glad our shop keeper is the kind of person who engages in rumouring and sometimes in debatte of what might come. He's pretty awesome when it comes to that because he really tells everyone what they need and do not need to maximise gain from money. He's doing it right.

Not exactly the same situation but I get what you're saying, if my local GW redshirt had shown me the 6th starter stuff a month ago and shown me the price I would have set some money aside for it and picked one up, as it is I can't throw together the $180 (au) together with a weeks notice so I am not gonna bother getting it at all at this point and will grab the chaos half (probably off ebay) if I see a new chaos dex is coming out.

Might want to start saving then, because we've got a new chaos codex on the way (in case you didn't figure that out by over half the chaos units in the box not being in the current codex ) Rumor has it it should be out by the end of the month.

Which is why most people hate GW's marketing scheme. If they had just said "hey guys, chaos codex will be out in a month, get ready" a lot more customers would feel some good will towards them. Instead, GW tries to keep it secret till the last minute and act all cute like they did something clever. It burns far more bridges than it raises as far as I'm concerned.

And if you're in Aus, eBay for just the half of the starter you want is probably way, way cheaper.

Or just buy it from an internationally friendly retailer. Got mine for $105 (incl. shipping).

Yeah. Being up here in Canada, Miniature Market in the US would be my go to place not to get screwed by GW's screw Canada pricing. It's not as bad as screw Australia pricing, but it's not great.

Either way, GW purchases have gotten high enough ticket that they're just not going to get me on impulse buys anymore. So their secrecy policy pretty much guarantees I'm going to stick with historicals, Mantic, Dreamforge, Kromlech, etc.,.

Oh and

 Sharkvictim wrote:
Worst thing about GW. Being ignorant. Lemme explain...
Two weeks ago I was in the GW Memphis Battle Bunker playing in a 1999+1 tournament. While myself and my cousin are waiting for the third round of fast-paced narrative-driven action to wrap up we are perusing this very website on his laptop. We are sitting on a couch against a wall around a corner. We are the only two people in the whole store who can even see what we are looking at, and it's the box set thread with the leaked pics. Which had already been around for ~24hrs. We are simply talking amongst ourselves when the manager of said location walks up and says

Manager: What are you guys looking at?
Me: Pics of Chaos cultists.
Manager: Seriously guys? Not in the store.
Me: And why exactly is that?
Manager: Come on guys. Not in the store. You can go outside and look. Or in the car, or even down the street, or even in your own homes. Just not in the store.

Before I was able to tirade he shuffled off, and looked upset more than pissed. I realize he can neither confirm or deny the images we were looking at, but his whole approach was way off.
I've been playing CSM for about three years now, and have been hanging on to the hope of a new codex since about the time I realized we got hosed in the land raider department. I've ran my princes and oblits and plague marines waiting for our day in the sun.
Now I'm excited about spending money on models for my army which I can only buy from them and he's telling me not to look at them? Telling. Not asking. I'm 30. Treat me like an adult and I promise I'll act like one.
What he should have said was something along the lines of 'interesting' or 'don't believe everything you read'. We all know better. Just move on.
On our way out the door my cousin asked me if I was going to buy anything. I said no because I wanted to see what happens with the new codex. The manager hears me say this and says "What new codex?"
Seriously, guy. you.

And one more thing, off topic. Earlier tonight I was painting that same cousin's thunderwolf cav and google searched "wolf fur markings" and about 50% or more of the images were furry art. Internet vexes me sometimes.

In internet years 30 makes you a dinosaur...

My oppinion here is simple: lack of support and communication.

We dont see a Game made by Gamers to Gamers, we see a game made by money suckers to money havers...

Everything else is perfect (ok, we could see better prices), but that is the central point of the business... and it is made poorly :/

I don't understand why so many people hate children, or specifically hate children being bought stuff by their parents. Was everyone in this thread raised in a barn or something?

I mean, imagine a child wanting something from Games Workshop for his birthday. The *shame*.

 Testify wrote:
I don't understand why so many people hate children, or specifically hate children being bought stuff by their parents. Was everyone in this thread raised in a barn or something?

I mean, imagine a child wanting something from Games Workshop for his birthday. The *shame*.

While I cannot speak for all, I know that my hatred of children is not the ones who want to get into the hobby...


It's the annoying fethers who are in the store unsupervised, are never supervised even when they have a parent there, and don't understand the concept of "I took my time to build and paint that, so don't touch it!" It's the ones who cannot seem to grasp the game, and pout if they lose, or they call you a cheat just because of their inability to read a simple rule, etc. etc.

That's fair enough, I hate kids as much as the next single man I meant more the "omg little timmy" posters.

 Testify wrote:
I don't understand why so many people hate children, or specifically hate children being bought stuff by their parents. Was everyone in this thread raised in a barn or something?

I mean, imagine a child wanting something from Games Workshop for his birthday. The *shame*.

Miniature wargaming has historically been an adult's hobby. GW is the one who figured out that children and teenagers can be a good target market. There's nothing wrong with it.

The problem is that from 1998 and on, they switched their target market to primarily being non-adults. So a lot of people who started with GW as they grew from a UK based company to an international one during the 1990s have largely been abandoned in terms of products designed for them. Forge World helps with this, but when you have things like Jervis saying he wants the codecies to be written for his 12 year old son, and the added randomness and simplification with each new edition release, people are getting sick of not being GW's target audience. They also shelved all of their tactically deep games like Warmaster, Epic, BFG, etc.,. Did you know in the first half of the 90s Epic stuff was their number 2 seller ahead of WFB? It was only when they scuttled it with the simplified Epic 40,000 version that it died. People found it overly simplistic and bland compared to the 1st and 2nd edition games like Adeptus Titanicus, Space Marine and Titan Legions. Epic: Armageddon returned to the original legacy with a tactically deep game and despite selling 600% (according to Jervis while Fanatic was still around) of projected sales, they still shelved it as it was the new corporate plan to only market Warhammer 40k, WFB and LotR.

GW could really stand to think a bit more about how to keep their child customer base and rebuild/retain their adult customer base.

Toy soldiers were only played with by adults until Gw plc messed things up in the late 90s?

Not sure about the Specialist stuff you quote but the 1987 first edition Bloodbowl states it's for 12 to adult on the box and RT states 16 to adult.

Games have always been for children and adults of course, who take it all way too seriously!