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I wouldn't be surprised if Belial was taken out altogether with the introduction of Terminators as Troops, which was the only thing unique about him. In the Dark Angels codex he had nothing special about him aside from being the only way to get a 2+ save on a DA Master.

That would be a damn shame. His fluff is pretty cool. All they'd have to do is give him some bonus like Vulcan or Lysander.

Otherwise, I guess I'll just have a rad looking Captain/Master with a banner that says Belial.

 Brother SRM wrote:
I wouldn't be surprised if Belial was taken out altogether with the introduction of Terminators as Troops, which was the only thing unique about him. In the Dark Angels codex he had nothing special about him aside from being the only way to get a 2+ save on a DA Master.

Taking him away would be stupid at this point.

Why?
Because of just how annoyed myself and many other players were at the loss of Naaman. A lot of people were upset about the loss of Asmodai as well.

I would be surprised if they removed Belial. He is the perfect way to introduce an "Elite" Deathwing unit upgrade, ala Draigo and Paladins.

Also, he might still be the only way to unlock a Deathwing banner and apothecary.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Brother SRM wrote:
I wouldn't be surprised if Belial was taken out altogether with the introduction of Terminators as Troops, which was the only thing unique about him. In the Dark Angels codex he had nothing special about him aside from being the only way to get a 2+ save on a DA Master.

Taking him away would be stupid at this point.

Why?
Because of just how annoyed myself and many other players were at the loss of Naaman. A lot of people were upset about the loss of Asmodai as well.

Belial doesn't have a model, though.

 lord_blackfang wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Brother SRM wrote:
I wouldn't be surprised if Belial was taken out altogether with the introduction of Terminators as Troops, which was the only thing unique about him. In the Dark Angels codex he had nothing special about him aside from being the only way to get a 2+ save on a DA Master.

Taking him away would be stupid at this point.

Why?
Because of just how annoyed myself and many other players were at the loss of Naaman. A lot of people were upset about the loss of Asmodai as well.

Belial doesn't have a model, though.

So what?

Master of the Ravenwing in Land Speeder has not had a model, despite being an option since the mini-dex at least.

And let's not pretend that it was hard to make a "counts-as" Belial. Making one is a joke.

For myself, the biggest problem with that simply is that it looked like it was: A Terminator with some extra bits tacked on.

Master of the Ravenwing in Land Speeder has not had a model, despite being an option since the mini-dex at least.

Actually the master has had 3. A metal/plastic speeder, a plastic speeder , and the jetbike

 Volkov wrote:

Master of the Ravenwing in Land Speeder has not had a model, despite being an option since the mini-dex at least.

Actually the master has had 3. A metal/plastic speeder, a plastic speeder , and the jetbike

If you want to correct someone, at least read the post.

Notice what I said. Now notice what you posted.

A "jetbike" is not a "Master of the Ravenwing in Land Speeder".
The metal/plastic one was conversion bits, not a dedicated kit.
The "plastic speeder" you're referring to is again conversion bits. And it's not even included with a Land Speeder. It's on the Ravenwing conversion sprues.

If they mention Belial in the fluff as Captain of the 1st Company or whatever that's fine and dandy. If they give him new rules that make him in any way different than a Company Master in Terminator armor, that's great. His rules as an IC are a non-entity, and if he didn't unlock Terminators as Troops (which is supposedly a stock option in the new dex) there'd be no reason for him to exist.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Volkov wrote:

Master of the Ravenwing in Land Speeder has not had a model, despite being an option since the mini-dex at least.

Actually the master has had 3. A metal/plastic speeder, a plastic speeder , and the jetbike

If you want to correct someone, at least read the post.

Notice what I said. Now notice what you posted.

A "jetbike" is not a "Master of the Ravenwing in Land Speeder".
The metal/plastic one was conversion bits, not a dedicated kit.
The "plastic speeder" you're referring to is again conversion bits. And it's not even included with a Land Speeder. It's on the Ravenwing conversion sprues.

Also this is pretty pedantic, and coming from me that's saying something The metal/plastic one was a kit that you bought called Master of the Ravenwing:

It had a special model for the master himself and everything. What would a dedicated kit have done any differently? A metal Land Speeder? The Ravenwing sprue has options for weapons that are on the master's Land Speeder and nobody else's; they're solely intended for him. While they don't sell a Land Speeder and the Ravenwing sprue together in a box outside of the Battleforce, it's not exactly rocket science to figure out that those bits are there purely to convert him up.

 Brother SRM wrote:
If they mention Belial in the fluff as Captain of the 1st Company or whatever that's fine and dandy. If they give him new rules that make him in any way different than a Company Master in Terminator armor, that's great. His rules as an IC are a non-entity, and if he didn't unlock Terminators as Troops (which is supposedly a stock option in the new dex) there'd be no reason for him to exist.

Again, that's assuming that Terminators are 100% definitively confirmed as new Troops.

And that there's going to be nothing special for him.
Given the piss-poor job they did with the previous Codex: Dark Angels, I will be flabbergasted if they half-ass it again.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Volkov wrote:

Master of the Ravenwing in Land Speeder has not had a model, despite being an option since the mini-dex at least.

Actually the master has had 3. A metal/plastic speeder, a plastic speeder , and the jetbike

If you want to correct someone, at least read the post.

Notice what I said. Now notice what you posted.

A "jetbike" is not a "Master of the Ravenwing in Land Speeder".
The metal/plastic one was conversion bits, not a dedicated kit.
The "plastic speeder" you're referring to is again conversion bits. And it's not even included with a Land Speeder. It's on the Ravenwing conversion sprues.

Also this is pretty pedantic, and coming from me that's saying something The metal/plastic one was a kit that you bought called Master of the Ravenwing:

It had a special model for the master himself and everything. What would a dedicated kit have done any differently? A metal Land Speeder?

A "dedicated kit" would have been done in such a way that it allowed you to field either of the options at the time: Land Speeder OR Bike.

The Ravenwing sprue has options for weapons that are on the master's Land Speeder and nobody else's; they're solely intended for him. While they don't sell a Land Speeder and the Ravenwing sprue together in a box outside of the Battleforce, it's not exactly rocket science to figure out that those bits are there purely to convert him up.

Pah, it doesn't have bits for the actual Master in his Land Speeder, so it's invalid!

...except that the bike option was added when the codex was revised. When the 3e codex was released, MoR was landspeeder only.

-John

Kan, I normally agree with you, but I think you're moving the goalpost here. You said he hasn't had a model, he provided proof of a model. Just because it wasn't a dual kit doesn't make it any less a model.

 pretre wrote:
Kan, I normally agree with you, but I think you're moving the goalpost here. You said he hasn't had a model, he provided proof of a model. Just because it wasn't a dual kit doesn't make it any less a model.

The last little bit of a "moving goalpost" was a joke.

Hence, the "". I can take being wrong!

Jbuckmaster: Was it? My first minidex fell apart, so I only have the revised one to check.

Curse me and my not reading your intent!

 Kanluwen wrote:

Jbuckmaster: Was it? My first minidex fell apart, so I only have the revised one to check.

Jbuck is correct. When the Hybrid kit was released, there were only rules for the MoRW on Speeder. The 4th ed book was the first time that the Jetbike was an option.

Yes, the options were:
3rd: In Landspeeder
3rd revised: landspeeder or SM bike
4th: Landspeeder or Jetbike.

I had my oldschool metal chaplains bike with a customized MoR mostly done when the 4e codex hit. :(

Forgive me, are DAs or Chaos up next for Codex release or is it still up int he air as to which?

 Ratius wrote:
Forgive me, are DAs or Chaos up next for Codex release or is it still up int he air as to which?

Most people say Chaos, but some say Dark Angels are still a possibility. A lot of speculation is that since the starter set comes with Chaos units that don't have rules available in a codex, Chaos will be next. Hastings said that Chaos would be late October/early November probably, and his word has generally been pretty good.I think there's still a fringe possibility of Dark Angels being next, but they're probably going to be November or January or something. There's rumor that GW wants to up their production schedule with codices and army releases, and if that's true we could be seeing them soon.

Cool, thanks SRM, a lot of threads/rumours of late but you summarised quite nicely

Without creating a divide/war (!) which Codex do you guys think "deserves" it more (bearing in mind GWs needs VS player base needs VS game needs etc etc)?

I'd speculate Chaos has a much wider player base than DAs? but might be a harder range to produce/release and DAs being Marines they might be slightly easier to balance than Chaos which are obviosuly still Marines but with a twist.

Or was that just a tipsy spiel of silly consiousness?
I'll go with the latter actually

Chaos definitely has a larger playerbase than Dark Angels. Beyond anecdotal evidence (I've known two people who regularly played Dark Angels, one being me in 4th edition and one being a regular opponent of mine) GW stated on their site back in the day that the second most popular army after Space Marines were Chaos Space Marines.

I think Chaos demands a new codex first, since they're meant to have more options overall and are sold as the big badguys in this edition. The rulebook has a large section on Chaos and calls them the greatest threat, so I think their increased spotlight should be manifested with a new codex first.

And yeah, there are tons of threads and rumors going on right now, but I'm trying to keep mine as tidy as I can!

Agrred SRM, gj anyways!

I'm still inclined to think Chaos because Hastings and Harry seem pretty set on that. But there are a bunch of things that keep on popping up to make Dark Angels seem like a likely contender. Especially after the treatment they've received between the LE starter and having them, and only them, plastered on the front cover of this month's WD as well as on the inside back. If I were ignorant of the rumours going around about Chaos release I would say that Dark Angels were more likely. But since I trawl rumour forums far too often I'm still thinking Chaos is the likely next release. In all honesty I hope both are redone in the next month or three because the starter and codex conflict with each other for both armies (mostly stat line differences like 2A Chosen and WS6 Masters).

I saw this on Faeit:

via Faeit 212 (a Must Remain Anonymous Source)
______ hasn't changed his statement that Pre orders are up on the 15th for release on the 22nd along with the white dwarf about them.

I could imagine the WD and Pre Orders to both be the 22nd but he was very specific and said that they're "breaking the mold" to fit in DAngels.

This was in reference to Chaos. He's saying that GW will be bucking its normal release schedule to get Chaos out early and get Dark Angels in shortly after.
E: Added this to the OP, what the heck.

well if that is true it backs up my statement from way back when, basically I said that GW would not lets its flagship boxset for newbs have 2 out of date books that will get slapped around by almost every other book (this as always depends on experiance, but how many newbs are that good to start with), so if they are releasing DA/Chaos early then its great for both the fanbases, now here is the kicker, if DA turn out to be a better dex than chaos (or vice versa), then we can expect the respective elements of the new boxset to become harder to obtain cheaper on Ebay... just a thought

 lord_blackfang wrote:

 Lucre wrote:
The stuff in the rumors still seems sorta appropriate to me. It makes sense for them to have a wacky old sorta dread, it makes sense for them to have some kind of Special-DA flying machine because they stayed with their old tech vs the new flyer.

But it's not a wacky Dread, it's just the inclusion of Forgeworld weapon options. It's not a special DA Land Speeder, the Tempest is a Forgeworld model mostly used by the White Scars.

Or maybe GW is trying to be more inclusive with FW, as GW owns FW and makes a profit on FW stuff. I mean, FW didn't make IA: Aeronautica because they figured the planes should have their own book.

 Formosa wrote:
well if that is true it backs up my statement from way back when, basically I said that GW would not lets its flagship boxset for newbs have 2 out of date books that will get slapped around by almost every other book (this as always depends on experiance, but how many newbs are that good to start with), so if they are releasing DA/Chaos early then its great for both the fanbases, now here is the kicker, if DA turn out to be a better dex than chaos (or vice versa), then we can expect the respective elements of the new boxset to become harder to obtain cheaper on Ebay... just a thought

If they have any sense the 'Chaos' Codex and the DA Codex won't even be on sale at the moment.

Faeit 212 Anonymous Commenter wrote:Dark Angels will have at least 3 units never seen before, not including special characters. Plus, there is another flyer + FAQ wave coming

Not seen before. Because they are sooo Dark?

Flyer N° 3 it is then? You know what I want GW.
I'll take 3 if you get it right this time, promise.

Faeit 212 Anonymous Commenter wrote:Dark Angels will have at least 3 units never seen before, not including special characters. Plus, there is another flyer + FAQ wave coming

... and they will have at least one new plastic kit and 2 new Finecast characters. And GW will raise prices next June.

I just hope.. I mean really hope that they bring in Robed deathwing terminators