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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/08/24 11:51:33
Subject: Armstrong facing loss of 7 Tour de France titles
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5th God of Chaos! (Yea'rly!)
The Great State of Texas
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The fanatical bicycling community in Austin must be freaking out.
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/C/CYC_ARMSTRONG_DOPING?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2012-08-23-23-18-23
Armstrong facing loss of 7 Tour de France titles
By JIM VERTUNO
AP Sports Writer
AP Photo/Christophe Ena
Sports Video
AUSTIN, Texas (AP) -- Never one to back away from a fight, Lance Armstrong is finally giving in and the cost of quitting is steep: His seven Tour de France titles could be gone as soon as Friday.
The superstar cyclist, whose stirring victories after his comeback from cancer helped him transcend sports, chose not to pursue arbitration in the drug case brought against him by the U.S. Anti-Doping Agency. That was his last option in his bitter fight with USADA and his decision set the stage for the titles to be stripped and his name to be all but wiped from the record books of the sport he once ruled.
Travis Tygart, USADA's chief executive, left no doubt that was the next step. He said Armstrong would lose the titles as soon as Friday and be hit with a lifetime ban, even though he is retired and turning 41 next month.
Still to be heard from was the sport's governing body, the International Cycling Union, which had backed Armstrong's legal challenge to USADA's authority. Tygart said the UCI was "bound to recognize our decision and impose it" as a signer of the World Anti-Doping Code.
"They have no choice but to strip the titles under the code," he said.
Armstrong clearly knew his legacy would be blemished by his decision. He said he has grown tired of defending himself in a seemingly never-ending fight against charges that he doped while piling up more Tour victories than anyone ever. He has consistently pointed to the hundreds of drug tests that he passed as proof of his innocence during his extraordinary run of Tour titles from 1999 to 2005.
"There comes a point in every man's life when he has to say, `Enough is enough.' For me, that time is now," Armstrong said Thursday night, hours before the deadline to enter arbitration. He called the USADA investigation an "unconstitutional witch hunt."
"I have been dealing with claims that I cheated and had an unfair advantage in winning my seven Tours since 1999," he said. "The toll this has taken on my family and my work for our foundation and on me leads me to where I am today - finished with this nonsense."
USADA treated Armstrong's decision as an admission of guilt, hanging the label of drug cheat on an athlete who was a hero to thousands for overcoming life-threatening testicular cancer and for his foundation's support for cancer research. Armstrong could lose other awards, event titles and cash earnings, and the International Olympic Committee might look at the bronze medal he won in the 2000 Games.
"It is a sad day for all of us who love sport and athletes," Tygart said. "It's a heartbreaking example of win-at-all-costs overtaking the fair and safe option. There's no success in cheating to win."
Johan Bruyneel, Armstrong's longtime coach, said the Texan is a victim of a legal process run amok.
"Lance has never withdrawn from a fair fight in his life so his decision today underlines what an unjust process this has been," Bruyneel wrote on his personal website on Friday.
While Tygart said the agency can strip the Tour titles, Armstrong disputed that, insisting his decision is not an admission of guilt but a refusal to enter an arbitration process he believes is unfair.
"USADA cannot assert control of a professional international sport and attempt to strip my seven Tour de France titles," he said. "I know who won those seven Tours, my teammates know who won those seven Tours, and everyone I competed against knows who won those seven Tours."
Armstrong's comments notwithstanding, USADA has exercised its power to sanction athletes and strip their results regularly. Its website shows that it has issued 21 sanctions in 2012 so far in sports ranging from cycling to track to boxing to judo, with 17 of the athletes losing their results.
At the headquarters of Tour organizer ASO outside of Paris on Friday, spokesman Fabrice Tiano said Tour director Christian Prudhomme was not immediately available for comment because he was in urgent meetings about the case.
Armstrong walked away from the sport for good in 2011 without being charged following a two-year federal criminal investigation into many of the same accusations he faces from USADA.
The federal probe was closed in February, but USADA announced in June it had evidence Armstrong used banned substances and methods - and encouraged their use by teammates. The agency also said it had blood tests from 2009 and 2010 that were "fully consistent" with blood doping.
Included in USADA's evidence were emails written by Armstrong's former U.S. Postal Service teammate Floyd Landis, who was stripped of his 2006 Tour de France title after a positive drug test. Landis' emails to a USA Cycling official detailed allegations of a complex doping program on the team.
USADA also said it had 10 former Armstrong teammates ready to testify against him. Other than suggesting they include Landis and Tyler Hamilton, both of whom have admitted to doping offenses, the agency has refused to say who they are or specifically what they would say.
USADA maintains that Armstrong used banned substances as far back as 1996, including the blood-booster EPO and steroids, as well as blood transfusions.
"There is zero physical evidence to support (the) outlandish and heinous claims," Armstrong said. "The only physical evidence here is the hundreds of (doping) controls I have passed with flying colors."
Armstrong sued USADA in Austin, Texas, where he lives, in an attempt to block the case and was supported by the UCI. A judge threw out the case on Monday, siding with USADA despite questioning the agency's pursuit of Armstrong in his retirement.
"USADA's conduct raises serious questions about whether its real interest in charging Armstrong is to combat doping, or if it is acting according to less noble motives," such as politics or publicity, U.S. District Judge Sam Sparks wrote.
The ultra-competitive Armstrong still had the option to press his innocence in arbitration, which would have included a hearing during which evidence against him would have been presented. But the cyclist has said he believes most people have already made up their minds about whether he's a fraud or a persecuted hero.
And so he did something virtually unthinkable for him: He quit before a fight was over, a stunning move for an athlete who built his reputation on not only beating cancer, but forcing himself through grueling offseason workouts no one else could match, then crushing his rivals in the Alps and the Pyrenees.
"Today I turn the page. I will no longer address this issue, regardless of the circumstances," he said. "I will commit myself to the work I began before ever winning a single Tour de France title: serving people and families affected by cancer, especially those in underserved communities."
Although he had already been crowned a world champion and won individual stages at the Tour de France, Armstrong was still relatively unknown in the U.S. until he won the epic race for the first time in 1999. It was the ultimate comeback tale: When diagnosed with cancer, doctors had given him less than a 50 percent chance of survival before surgery and brutal cycles of chemotherapy saved his life.
Armstrong's riveting victories, his work for cancer awareness and his gossip-page romances with rocker Sheryl Crow, fashion designer Tory Burch and actress Kate Hudson made him a figure who transcended sports.
His dominance of the Tour de France elevated the sport's popularity in the U.S. to unprecedented levels. His story and success helped sell millions of the "Livestrong" plastic yellow wrist bracelets, and enabled him to enlist lawmakers and global policymakers to promote cancer awareness and research. His Lance Armstrong Foundation has raised nearly $500 million since its founding in 1997.
Jeffery C. Gervey, chairman of the foundation, issued a statement of support.
"Faced with a biased process whose outcome seems predetermined, Lance chose to put his family and his foundation first," Gervey said. "The leadership of the Lance Armstrong Foundation remain incredibly proud of our founder's achievements, both on and off the bike."
Questions surfaced even as Armstrong was on his way to his first Tour victory. He was leading the 1999 race when a trace amount of a banned anti-inflammatory corticosteroid was found in his urine; cycling officials said he was authorized to use a small amount of a cream to treat saddle sores.
After Armstrong's second victory in 2000, French judicial officials investigated his Postal Service team for drug use. That investigation ended with no charges, but the allegations kept coming.
Others close to Armstrong were caught up in the investigations, too: Bruyneel, the coach of Armstrong's teams, and three members of the medical staff and a consultant were also charged. Bruyneel is taking his case to arbitration, while two medical team staffers and consulting doctor Michele Ferrari didn't formally contest the charges and were issued lifetime bans by USADA. Ferrari later said he was innocent.
Armstrong was criticized for his relationship with Ferrari, who was banned by Italian authorities over doping charges in 2002. Former personal and team assistants accused Armstrong of having steroids in an apartment in Spain and disposing of syringes that were used for injections.
In 2004, a Dallas-based promotions company initially refused to pay him a $5 million bonus for winning his sixth Tour de France because it wanted to investigate allegations raised by media in Europe. Testimony in that case included former teammate Frankie Andreu and his wife, Betsy, saying Armstrong told doctors during his 1996 cancer treatments that he had taken a cornucopia of steroids and performance-enhancing drugs.
Two books published in Europe, "L.A. Confidential" and "L.A. Official," also raised doping allegations and, in 2005, French magazine L'Equipe reported that retested urine samples from the 1999 Tour showed EPO use.
Armstrong fought every accusation with denials and, in some cases, lawsuits against media outlets that reported them.
He retired in 2005 and almost immediately considered a comeback before deciding to stay on the sidelines - in part because he didn't want to keep answering doping questions. Three years later, Armstrong was 36 and itching to ride again. He came back to finish third in the 2009 Tour de France.
Armstrong raced again in 2010 under the cloud of the federal investigation. Early last year, he quit for good, making a brief return as a triathlete until the USADA investigation shut him down.
"He had a right to contest the charges," WADA President John Fahey said after Armstrong's announcement. "He chose not to. The simple fact is that his refusal to examine the evidence means the charges had substance in them."
---
AP National Writer Eddie Pells and AP Sports Writer Dennis Passa contributed to this report.
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-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/08/24 11:53:26
Subject: Armstrong facing loss of 7 Tour de France titles
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Hangin' with Gork & Mork
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By not playing their game, he only proves his guilt! What a sweet way for evidence to work.
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Amidst the mists and coldest frosts he thrusts his fists against the posts and still insists he sees the ghosts.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/08/24 12:06:38
Subject: Re:Armstrong facing loss of 7 Tour de France titles
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Insect-Infested Nurgle Chaos Lord
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Saw this on the BBC earlier on. Seems like the USADA are being vindictive as he has complied with various tests and passed them.
The simple fact is that his refusal to examine the evidence means the charges had substance in them.
maximumtrolling.jpg
These allegations started to surface in France, and we all know what classy fethers they have been recently when it comes to cycling. Not that I'm saying that they made them up... but they probably did.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/08/24 12:13:27
Subject: Armstrong facing loss of 7 Tour de France titles
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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We see the improbable and the highly unlikely now as some form of cheating in sports.
The American sports psyche was irreparably harmed when baseball found out its most cherished stars took steroids to bulk up, shorten their lifespans, and reach meteoric heights in statistical categories.
It is no surprise the USA governing body on cycling is persecuting Lance Armstrong; they do not want to be seen in the light of MLB's blunders with doping.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/08/24 12:34:47
Subject: Armstrong facing loss of 7 Tour de France titles
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5th God of Chaos! (Yea'rly!)
The Great State of Texas
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I still don't understand why anyone cares. If you want to turn yourself into a SpazzMariniez HURR! then fine by me.
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-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/08/24 12:40:16
Subject: Armstrong facing loss of 7 Tour de France titles
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Hangin' with Gork & Mork
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Frazzled wrote:I still don't understand why anyone cares. If you want to turn yourself into a SpazzMariniez HURR! then fine by me.
Are you saying you don't care if they cheat or that you don't think it should be considered cheating?
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Amidst the mists and coldest frosts he thrusts his fists against the posts and still insists he sees the ghosts.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/08/24 12:44:25
Subject: Armstrong facing loss of 7 Tour de France titles
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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The thing is, Lance has never failed a drug test (not without secondary sample validation, suggesting possible sample tampering?) In, well, ever...
Most of the 'evidence' that the USADA apparently has, is former teammates who may or may not be jealous...and according to espn, most of the 'people evidence' gathered are guys wno have tested positive, go figure.
I think lance himself said it best, that this is an unconstitutional witch hunt.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/08/24 12:45:02
Subject: Armstrong facing loss of 7 Tour de France titles
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Battlefield Tourist
MN (Currently in WY)
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Everything you have been told is a lie!
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Support Blood and Spectacles Publishing:
https://www.patreon.com/Bloodandspectaclespublishing |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/08/24 12:48:32
Subject: Armstrong facing loss of 7 Tour de France titles
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Hangin' with Gork & Mork
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But I was told that this was a lie!
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Amidst the mists and coldest frosts he thrusts his fists against the posts and still insists he sees the ghosts.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/08/24 12:51:19
Subject: Re:Armstrong facing loss of 7 Tour de France titles
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Hulking Hunter-class Warmech
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I know nothing about this guy, but it sounds like the USADA is out to get him for some reason...
I almost facepalmed at the "He's not contesting the charges so the evidence must be right" comment.
Big respect to him for this cancer charity and focussing on that rather than the charges.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/08/24 12:51:28
Subject: Armstrong facing loss of 7 Tour de France titles
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Dwarf High King with New Book of Grudges
United States
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Ensis Ferrae wrote:The thing is, Lance has never failed a drug test (not without secondary sample validation, suggesting possible sample tampering?) In, well, ever...
Blood doping doesn't involve drugs.
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Life does not cease to be funny when people die any more than it ceases to be serious when people laugh. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/08/24 12:52:03
Subject: Armstrong facing loss of 7 Tour de France titles
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5th God of Chaos! (Yea'rly!)
The Great State of Texas
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Ahtman wrote: Frazzled wrote:I still don't understand why anyone cares. If you want to turn yourself into a SpazzMariniez HURR! then fine by me.
Are you saying you don't care if they cheat or that you don't think it should be considered cheating?
Option B. I care about cheating, but not the act itself. I don't think professional sports should care. Juice up baby. The first who literally turns himself into the Hulk wins $50mm!
No matter what though, its still wrong to be French.
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-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/08/24 12:59:09
Subject: Armstrong facing loss of 7 Tour de France titles
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Martial Arts Fiday
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Terrible, just terrible.
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"Holy Sh*&, you've opened my eyes and changed my mind about this topic, thanks Dakka OT!"
-Nobody Ever
Proverbs 18:2
"CHEESE!" is the battlecry of the ill-prepared.
warboss wrote:
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EmilCrane wrote:Finecast is the new Matt Ward.
Don't mess with the Blade and Bolter! |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/08/24 13:22:04
Subject: Armstrong facing loss of 7 Tour de France titles
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Lord Commander in a Plush Chair
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Seems like a lot of rumour mongering and finger pointing than actual evidence. The fact that it has been going on for a number of years just means he's just had enough more than an admission of guilt, but they're clearly keen to spin it that way.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/08/24 13:23:33
Subject: Armstrong facing loss of 7 Tour de France titles
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Powerful Pegasus Knight
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Armstrong competed in an era of cycling when everyone was on drugs, he beat them all, go figure.
dogma wrote: Ensis Ferrae wrote:The thing is, Lance has never failed a drug test (not without secondary sample validation, suggesting possible sample tampering?) In, well, ever...
Blood doping doesn't involve drugs.
Right. Most of the methods of blood doping which were rife in cycling have been undetectable until recent developments in testing. The USADA charged Armstrong with doping in 2009 based on blood samples he gave BESIDES the allegations.
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2012/08/24 13:41:10
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/08/24 13:37:12
Subject: Armstrong facing loss of 7 Tour de France titles
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Sword-Bearing Inquisitorial Crusader
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Glorioski wrote:Armstrong competed in an era of cycling when everyone was on drugs, he beat them all, go figure.
^^ this.
given that most of the people who came close to beating him have either been caught or admitted doping, i would be very surprised if he hadn't.
grrr
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/08/24 13:44:08
Subject: Armstrong facing loss of 7 Tour de France titles
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Powerful Pegasus Knight
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I don't think anyone who takes half an interest in cycling would be surprised that the guy who won everything during cycling's dirtiest era ever was not involved somehow.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/08/24 13:48:31
Subject: Armstrong facing loss of 7 Tour de France titles
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Anointed Dark Priest of Chaos
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Frazzled wrote:I still don't understand why anyone cares. If you want to turn yourself into a SpazzMariniez HURR! then fine by me.
1. It's cheating as the rules currently stand.
As a parent, teacher, and someone active in youth sports I don't find cheating or drug use two things I want to teach kids, nor see in their role models.
Not to mention the slippery slope: if it is allowed in the pros then how long befor it is ok in college? IF it is ok in college then how long before some coach/parent thinks it is a great way to help his high school team make it to states, Little league next?, etc.
Your thoughts on drug use and what is healthy for kids and young adults must be a bit different in Texas I guess...
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/08/24 13:49:37
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/08/24 13:51:11
Subject: Armstrong facing loss of 7 Tour de France titles
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Powerful Pegasus Knight
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Also if you wanted to give free reign for athletes to take whatever they wanted then the only people winning things would be the people willing to take the drugs. Meanwhile the perfectly capable female swimmers, for example, who don't want to end up looking like men are cast out of the sport because they can't keep up.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/08/24 13:51:55
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/08/24 13:52:28
Subject: Armstrong facing loss of 7 Tour de France titles
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Fixture of Dakka
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WarOne wrote:
It is no surprise the USA governing body on cycling is persecuting Lance Armstrong; they do not want to be seen in the light of MLB's blunders with doping.
War:
As far as I know no US cycling body is involved. There IS an anti doping agency that apparently has an axe to grind. The international cycling body , the one the USADA expects to strip his titles, supports LA against them.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/08/24 13:53:13
Subject: Armstrong facing loss of 7 Tour de France titles
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5th God of Chaos! (Yea'rly!)
The Great State of Texas
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CT GAMER wrote: Frazzled wrote:I still don't understand why anyone cares. If you want to turn yourself into a SpazzMariniez HURR! then fine by me.
1. It's cheating as the rules currently stand.
As a parent, teacher, and someone active in youth sports I don't find cheating or drug use two things I want to teach kids, nor see in their role models.
Not to mention the slippery slope: if it is allowed in the pros then how long befor it is ok in college? IF it is ok in college then how long before some coach/parent thinks it is a great way to help his high school team make it to states, Little league next?, etc.
Your thoughts on drug use and what is healthy for kids and young adults must be a bit different in Texas I guess...
As noted I said no to cheating. My point is why should it be against the rules?
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-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/08/24 13:54:08
Subject: Armstrong facing loss of 7 Tour de France titles
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Secret Force Behind the Rise of the Tau
USA
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While I'd never rule out that Lance may have cheated, I do think that the way he's been treated since 1999 is ridiculous. Right off the bat he was accused of cheating and it just got worse and worse every year. At this point, accusing Lance Armstrong of cheating has become some people's careers.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/08/24 13:57:45
Subject: Armstrong facing loss of 7 Tour de France titles
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Anointed Dark Priest of Chaos
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Frazzled wrote:
As noted I said no to cheating. My point is [u][i][b]why should it be against the rules?
Because it is dangerous, unneeded, sets a bad precident and is repugnant on some level? Because athletes already teach our children enough bad things, we dont have to add using dangerous drugs to increase one's game stats?
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/08/24 14:04:02
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/08/24 13:58:55
Subject: Armstrong facing loss of 7 Tour de France titles
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5th God of Chaos! (Yea'rly!)
The Great State of Texas
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CT GAMER wrote:Your thoughts on drug use and what is healthy for kids and young adults must be a bit different in Texas I guess...
Have you SEEN our football teams??? Automatically Appended Next Post: Glorioski wrote:Also if you wanted to give free reign for athletes to take whatever they wanted then the only people winning things would be the people willing to take the drugs. Meanwhile the perfectly capable female swimmers, for example, who don't want to end up looking like men are cast out of the sport because they can't keep up.
So in other words, just like it is now?
http://www.cnn.com/2012/07/31/world/asia/china-shiwen-olympic-swimmer/index.html
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/08/24 14:00:10
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/08/24 14:01:54
Subject: Armstrong facing loss of 7 Tour de France titles
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Powerful Pegasus Knight
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Frazzled wrote:Glorioski 471996 4690436 wrote:Also if you wanted to give free reign for athletes to take whatever they wanted then the only people winning things would be the people willing to take the drugs. Meanwhile the perfectly capable female swimmers, for example, who don't want to end up looking like men are cast out of the sport because they can't keep up.
So in other words, just like it is now?
http://www.cnn.com/2012/07/31/world/asia/china-shiwen-olympic-swimmer/index.html
Shiwen complied with all the tests at the olympics and was fine. The only allegations were unfounded sour grapes from some US swimming coach.
...also most of the article you just linked to is saying the exact same thing. There's also a part in it where the USA team say that the coach's allegations do not represent their own views.
Also even if she was doing something untoward it makes no difference to my point. Automatically Appended Next Post: Also I'm using the word also far too often.
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This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2012/08/24 14:14:24
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/08/24 14:17:33
Subject: Armstrong facing loss of 7 Tour de France titles
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5th God of Chaos! (Yea'rly!)
The Great State of Texas
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Glorioski wrote: Frazzled wrote:Glorioski 471996 4690436 wrote:Also if you wanted to give free reign for athletes to take whatever they wanted then the only people winning things would be the people willing to take the drugs. Meanwhile the perfectly capable female swimmers, for example, who don't want to end up looking like men are cast out of the sport because they can't keep up.
So in other words, just like it is now?
http://www.cnn.com/2012/07/31/world/asia/china-shiwen-olympic-swimmer/index.html
Shiwen complied with all the tests at the olympics and was fine. The only allegations were unfounded sour grapes from some US swimming coach.
...also most of the article you just linked to is saying the exact same thing. There's also a part in it where the USA team say that the coach's allegations do not represent their own views.
Also even if she was doing something untoward it makes no difference to my point.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Sounds like the allegations against Armstrong actually...
Also I'm using the word also far too often.
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-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
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-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/08/24 14:23:11
Subject: Armstrong facing loss of 7 Tour de France titles
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Fixture of Dakka
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Glorioski wrote:
Armstrong complied with all the tests at the olympics and Tour de France and was fine. The only allegations were unfounded sour grapes from some disgraced US cyclist.
It's good to see you coming to the defense of Lance Armstrong...
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/08/24 14:23:27
Subject: Armstrong facing loss of 7 Tour de France titles
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Powerful Pegasus Knight
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AustonT wrote:Glorioski wrote:
Armstrong complied with all the tests at the olympics and Tour de France and was fine. The only allegations were unfounded sour grapes from some disgraced US cyclist.
It's good to see you coming to the defense of Lance Armstrong...
Frazzled wrote:Glorioski wrote:Shiwen complied with all the tests at the olympics and was fine. The only allegations were unfounded sour grapes from some US swimming coach.
...also most of the article you just linked to is saying the exact same thing. There's also a part in it where the USA team say that the coach's allegations do not represent their own views.
Also even if she was doing something untoward it makes no difference to my point.
Sounds like the allegations against Armstrong actually...
So a US coach saying a swimmers time was dubious based on nothing but the time itself is the same as a subject blood sample in 2009 and ten riders claiming to have heard or seen Armstrong associated with blood doping. What planet are you on?
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/08/24 14:26:14
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/08/24 14:29:38
Subject: Armstrong facing loss of 7 Tour de France titles
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Pragmatic Primus Commanding Cult Forces
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Honestly, I kinda think it's reasonable to ask some questions when you see athletic performances that are far outside the norm or by people who hadn't shown that level of ability before. I think it's reasonable to ask how a nation the size of Jamaica is producing that many athletes with world-class speed, for instance.
And before someone says I'm a butthurt American, what I just said applies to the U.S. women's 4x100 that just wrecked what was a long-standing -- and certainly PED-assisted -- world record just a couple weeks ago. It's not just that they broke a tainted record, they beat it by like a half-second. Which is lot. I loved watching the performance, but if I'm king of the Olympics, I probably order them to get tested another time. And FloJo is probably the case study for excessive athletic improvement later in a career.
Athletes have lost the privilege to say "don't question my performances" because we've seen how many are willing to do whatever it takes to win. As a group, they've made their bed and now they have to lie in it.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/08/24 14:30:20
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/08/24 14:32:33
Subject: Armstrong facing loss of 7 Tour de France titles
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5th God of Chaos! (Yea'rly!)
The Great State of Texas
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Glorioski wrote: AustonT wrote:Glorioski wrote: Armstrong complied with all the tests at the olympics and Tour de France and was fine. The only allegations were unfounded sour grapes from some disgraced US cyclist. It's good to see you coming to the defense of Lance Armstrong... Frazzled wrote:Glorioski wrote:Shiwen complied with all the tests at the olympics and was fine. The only allegations were unfounded sour grapes from some US swimming coach. ...also most of the article you just linked to is saying the exact same thing. There's also a part in it where the USA team say that the coach's allegations do not represent their own views. Also even if she was doing something untoward it makes no difference to my point. Sounds like the allegations against Armstrong actually... So a US coach saying a swimmers time was dubious based on nothing but the time itself is the same as a subject blood sample in 2009 and ten riders claiming to have heard or seen Armstrong associated with blood doping. What planet are you on?
Planet Frazzled. Come on in boys, the water's fine.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/08/24 14:33:45
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
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