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Uuh, you do realize that the delay issues far predate that crowdfunding campaign, right? Their not-chaos-warriors were horrible, folks waiting over six months for orders already paid for etc, etc.

 Bolognesus wrote:
Uuh, you do realize that the delay issues far predate that crowdfunding campaign, right? Their not-chaos-warriors were horrible, folks waiting over six months for orders already paid for etc, etc.

Yes I do but was that not down to the casting material they were using (spin cast resin) I thought they changed the material or am I wrong on that have they not fulfilled those orders now ?

 Bolognesus wrote:
Uuh, you do realize that the delay issues far predate that crowdfunding campaign, right? Their not-chaos-warriors were horrible, folks waiting over six months for orders already paid for etc, etc.

It's been just as long for the dwarfs, I don't see how a company can stay a business when they are backed up over a year in orders.

I have three boxes of the slayers, they may be naff in the rules but they are great little figures for converting .

 maxxev wrote:
I have three boxes of the slayers, they may be naff in the rules but they are great little figures for converting .

I totally agree mate I even bought some goblin heads after seeing your conversions

 lone dirty dog wrote:

 Bolognesus wrote:
Uuh, you do realize that the delay issues far predate that crowdfunding campaign, right? Their not-chaos-warriors were horrible, folks waiting over six months for orders already paid for etc, etc.

Yes I do but was that not down to the casting material they were using (spin cast resin) I thought they changed the material or am I wrong on that have they not fulfilled those orders now ?

Way I see it, the way they handled that and how long it took them to effect any substantial change, along with their total lack of actual communication, speaks volumes as to the general business practices in effect over at AoW.

I have all the faith in the world in the dude as a sculptor, but he really, really should not be in business for himself.
From what I can tell I agree with the assessment that AoW is severely leveraging new concepts to meet old obligations, and is falling further and further behind.
The idea that they're locked in the sort of death spiral mentioned seems more than likely to me (and I've seen a few small businesses go belly-up from up close by now).

Furthermore, the delays in AoW's IGG fulfillment are much, much worse than issues with most KS'es and while part of the lack of communication may be due to Felix's boneheaded stubbornness in dealing with customers, at least a substantial part cannot be taken as anything but a consequence of there simply not being terribly much to show for what should have been six months of sculpting and tooling.

All in all, I cannot help but feel your assessment cannot reasonably be considered to be supported by the facts in this matter. I understand the desire to see a 'small' party you feel sympathetic towards succeed, but even the most charitable reading of the matter should, by now, include some severe doubts concerning (the lack of) progress in this project.
Add to this that he changed materials (models would have been 'warcast', will now be PVC) after the funding period which will incur lower marginal production costs, but substantially higher tooling costs which, given the likely financial state of the business, will require him to stretch fulfillment out over a longer period of time simply to make the required up-front payments and I would say that not only is it reasonable to be sceptical, but by now there is little basis in the facts not to.

From my perspective, such matters are best viewed purely 'by the numbers' where possible, and I can't find any way to spin those numbers in an even remotely positive light anymore.

As long as they keep releasing kits I'll be buying them. Haven't had to wait for anything, personally.

Sure thing Might wanna buy from a retailer IMO, but a lot of the stuff is lovely. Have the new lizard thingy lying around here, it is quite the lovely model. Made sure to buy from an FLGS, though.

 Bolognesus wrote:
Sure thing Might wanna buy from a retailer IMO, but a lot of the stuff is lovely. Have the new lizard thingy lying around here, it is quite the lovely model. Made sure to buy from an FLGS, though.

Seeing it from your point of view I totally understand where you are coming from, I guess I have been lucky to date so with that in mind I will step back and wish you the best with future events.

Yeah, I order thru MiniatureMarket. The recent dwarf kits have been great and the newest character models have been their best ever imho.

That's good to hear, judgedoug... hopefully he'll get that standard bearer done and have a lot more goodwill to work with!

 lone dirty dog wrote:

I am learning that if you back these projects you have to expect changes and delays, I know its not what most people want to hear but you have to expect it I am afraid.

Uh, yeah. We've been saying that for about the past year now. Despite this, project creators are still full of the "Oh NO, Ours will be different." And then of course, they're not...

Also I know the first thing is to highlight the fact that you are not happy and you are waiting on releases and how bad it all is, but remember the more bad press will put buyers of creating less sales which could force a company under then you end up out of pocket and nothing to show for it.

Then it's tough gak really. If these guys can't manage to manage their businesses, well, maybe they're better off freelancing for others. We're supposed to cheerlead or pretend that super-massively-extended delays and gakky communication are alright?

Dont get me wrong people should be honest and by the sounds of it AOW have dropped the ball on this project but not entirely through their own doing, they do create some great miniatures and lets hope they turn things around soon.
I have to 2 boxes of the slayers and think they are pretty nice models my self especially compared to other manufactures box sets, so I think more the issues is due to playability of slayers and lets be honest thats due to other companies rules.

Again, GW-compatible figures mean a lot more sales, but then if you decide to hitch your figure to the "not-GW-Unit" bandwagon then you're at the mercy of GW's rules of the moment. Many of AoW's issues are due to Felix' pig-headedness in regard to many aspects of the campaign. It's a shame, but there's often no saving people from themselves.

 lone dirty dog wrote:
I am learning that if you back these projects you have to expect changes and delays, I know its not what most people want to hear but you have to expect it I am afraid.

While I totally share your point that one has to accept delays (but really, why should we? It can't be that hard to get a more realistic deadline - but I guess that less people would pledge if the ETA was 2016 rather than 2014), but it is a difference between delays and delays. In the IGG the timeframe was to sculpt the figures between august 2012 and january 2013 (so that's 6 months to do the sculpting). Now, almost a year after the deadline, the production has come to a complete stop where less than half of the units have been touched, where roughly around 50 unique figures need to be sculpted (if you count around 4 unique figures for every multi-part unit). And then, add to this that there are absolutely no communications whatsoever by the team and that they are releasing other units instead.

So, I am sorry to say, but AoW dropped the ball on this project by their own totally doing, and I will have to say that the backers (yes, I was one of them, I had several hundred dollars pledged to it) have shown them a lot of patience and a lot of support that they actually don't deserve anymore (in my very humble opinion).

Like I said I did not back this project (thankfully by the sounds of it ) so I guess I see my dealings differently to you that have, so to be fair I see your point of view and do understand your resentment to Felix and AOW.

I have to say I am happy on the whole with my dealings so I guess I have been lucky, I just hope there is some resolution to this matter soon as they do create some great miniatures.

I have to say feedback or lack of it in Kickstarters or group funding projects is a big pet hate of mine so totally with you on that, I think they need to keep people informed whether it is good or bad news don't stick your head in the sand so to speak.

If you take these projects on and don't deliver then be prepared to deal with your backers ,by the sounds of it they have over stretched themselves without realistically understanding what was involved in the first place.

I really think AOW need to reach out to you guys be upfront and try to offer some kind of compromise with realistic goals, at least this way you may get some miniatures you want sooner rather than later.

Well good luck and hope some resolution is achieved soon.

 lone dirty dog wrote:
Like I said I did not back this project (thankfully by the sounds of it ) so I guess I see my dealings differently to you that have, so to be fair I see your point of view and do understand your resentment to Felix and AOW.

I might have sounded a bit too negative, but I don't have any resentment towards Felix or AoW. They produce really great miniatures and it would be a great shame of he wound be burnt by this experience and stop sculpting. I will most likely buy more of the products coming out of AoW, but I will, as many others, not deal with them directly but go through partners with confirmed in-house stock.

 RiTides wrote:
That's good to hear, judgedoug... hopefully he'll get that standard bearer done and have a lot more goodwill to work with!

Once he releases the BSB people will do a 180 on how they think of AoW

How so? I'm sure it'll be a brilliant model, but it won't stop it from being over a year late, nor make people suddenly decide that Felix is an awesome businessman, or listens to his customers, or...

It will get that particular monkey off his back, though, and deliver on a promise, albeit late. It'd make me at least consider ordering their product again, while when it hasn't been done I wouldn't have.

I've bought AoW product from retailers in the meantime, and also bought the Thunder Warriors box direct from AoW (with free metal character model). I'm not exactly boycotting his stuff out of protest or anything...

 Azazelx wrote:
How so? I'm sure it'll be a brilliant model, but it won't stop it from being over a year late, nor make people suddenly decide that Felix is an awesome businessman, or listens to his customers, or...

It will mean he listens to his customers a little bit, when they try to persuade him to be a less awful businessman. He's still stuck in a self-inflicted time warp where he's only doing things a year after he should (making plastic Witch Elves, realising restic sucks for rank and file, making one miniature that will instantly satiate half his creditors) but it's progress.

Finally sculpting a BSB (over) a year late is still not going to create a 180 on people's opinion of Felix or AoW.

One of my friends is looking at starting a Dwarf army when the new book hits (he's convinced it's February, despite having no proof anywhere of this except a friend who assured him, despite also having no proof). I pointed him to the AoW website, and he's in love with the models and is fine with the price. I DID tell him to get them through a store who is willing to stock them or a site like Miniature Market, as I don't want him screwed for time by ordering from the AoW site. The models are gorgeous-I haven't disliked any of Felix's models at all, but ordering sounds rough.

I think actual ordering of in production stuff is ok

It's pre-ordering where it gets 'tricky'

(although if it's 'warcast' you may need to wait a bit longer to make sure the sculpts suits mass production)

You might also run into snags if something is out of stock. Not sure if they have stock tracking on the site...

Here's another preview of the Witch Elves.

After seeing this latest picture I'm more interested again, because it looks like there's a seam between the head and the hair and headpiece, implying they are separate pieces. If they are, I'd be able build them bald, instead of having copious quantities of hair.

 AlexHolker wrote:
Here's another preview of the Witch Elves.

After seeing this latest picture I'm more interested again, because it looks like there's a seam between the head and the hair and headpiece, implying they are separate pieces. If they are, I'd be able build them bald, instead of having copious quantities of hair.

Question will be if it is connecting to a round "back of head" piece or is angled. Concerned how they will rank up. That new one looks to be hanging over the base quite a bit.

Did they ever actually fulfill any of their kickstarters yet?

Never mind.

Gaelion wrote:The hair is not separated from the head.

 Breotan wrote:
Did they ever actually fulfill any of their kickstarters yet?

~30-40% has been released.

RoninXiC wrote:

 Breotan wrote:
Did they ever actually fulfill any of their kickstarters yet?

~30-40% has been released.

Yep. That's what I thought. I never pledged for any of their kickstarters because of what their customers had posted in those threads. Even CMoN/McVey ultimately delivered, even if it didn't meet expectations.