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If Eldar are your primary detachment then who would you take for an allied detachment?
Dark Eldar
Tau
Other (explain below)

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The title says it all but I'll add a bit. Realistically if you want to maximize your synergy then you have to pick from a codex that is battle brother with your own. This leaves the Eldar two main choices for allies: Tau or Dark Eldar. Which do you choose and why? What synergies are you hitting up?

Another request. I would love some advice on how to develop my army working towards an epic army with great synergy. I want eldar to be my primary detachment.

I currently fly the banner of Craftworld Alaitoc. This means I have a spread of troops and my army could grow a variety of ways.
-> currently I have: Eldrad, Warpspider Autarch (w fusion gun, mandiblasters, & power sword). 8 Harliquens including all the characters, 6 fire dragons (w exarch w firepike), 5 rangers/pathfinders, 10 dire avengers (exarch w power sword & shimmershield combo), 3 Shining Spears (w exarch & a "star lance", 5 warp spiders (exarch w extra death spinner & power blades), a wraithlord (w 2x flamers, bright lance, & Eldar missle launcher), 3 scatter walkers, and one wave serpent rocking the twin-linked scatter laser.

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Well, I'd consider DE since they have some solid cc units (Beastmaster) and decent fire support (Razorwing, Ravager).

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I personally am wanting to run Dark Eldar Allies, but I've been playing around with in my mind with Allied Tau too. For me it comes down to what I want from my allies, I'd take Dark Eldar for some more CC, or I could take Tau for some really nice anti-tank.
   
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Somewhere in the dark...

If Forgeworld is an option for you, try Corsairs. They are Battle Brothers when they ally with Eldar and can take the awesome Hornets in your fast attack slot (take a squadron of 3). They can also take very mobile troops if given jet packs with options to take fusion guns and missile launchers. Both of these choices are arguably better than the units that you can take in their respective slots from Codex: Eldar. plus, Corsairs look very cool.



 
   
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The ability to take a Razorwing / Voidraven, and Wracks / Warriors / Wyches is a nice boost.

They'll synergise together quite well too.

Tau are good for overwhelming power in the field of fire support - but Eldar have a reasonable amount of firepower anyway.

   
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The Battle Brother bit is only a requirement if you absolutely want to make sure that your Farseers can cast their powers upon them. Allies of Convenience become better if your Farseers are going to generally be dedicated to units within your Eldar detachment: for instance, if your FS is always riding with a specific unit in a transport or just hanging out at the back line guiding shooting units. There are a couple of other options for allies that might bring their own buff options as well.

For instance, while my Eldar army is running DE's for the Bomber, I've actually been considering putting together a small detachment from the Grey Knights codex: Coteaz and a unit of Crusaders. 12 Crusaders isn't a KILL ALL THE THINGS close combat unit, but they are quite survivable with their 3++ save and Coteaz has his own two powers to roll for to support them. This would also allow you to bring a unit full of Psykers for a nice cheap pie plate, and if you wanted to expand it a Stormraven (which might actually fit better in a "shooty" Eldar army than a Voidraven) and a "Warp Spider Wraithlord" (a Dreadknight with the Teleporter) would present a very different set of threats than the Eldar army can usually put out there. In addition, these all provide some excellent modelling opportunities.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/08/28 14:17:12


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Limerick

Magc8Ball wrote:I've actually been considering putting together a small detachment from the Grey Knights codex: Coteaz and a unit of Crusaders. 12 Crusaders isn't a KILL ALL THE THINGS close combat unit, but they are quite survivable with their 3++ save and Coteaz has his own two powers to roll for to support them. This would also allow you to bring a unit full of Psykers for a nice cheap pie plate


You might want to either read the allies rules again, or the Eldar tactica, because either you aren't taking a Farseer for whatever reason, or you aren't aware that Runes of Warding affects any allies that aren't Battle Brothers, so no, Coteaz isn't lending psychic support, and no, those Psykers aren't putting out blasts by rolling 8 on 3 dice (not to mention Perils wipes the squad).

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Yea a farseer would really crush those allied grey knights. It would be bad.

I currently run, and have won with, Eldar and dark eldar. I do lots of shooting. The lack of price efficient bright lances in the eldar codex HURTS. So naturally, Dark eldar fill that role. I take warriors and archon in a raider. Thats one dark lance and 2 blaster (one from archon) in a mobile platform with night shields. I cant even say how often night shields have saved its butt. I also take 5Hay-wyches in a venom. 12 shots forces more saves on infantry and wyches hunt the biggest vehicular threat. Once again, night shields. I take a ravager in te heavy slot for a strong 12" move + 36" range alpha strike 3 lance shots. I wont the last tournament I played in and picked up a razorwing. I may throw that in there two by switching Eldar to be the allied force (sadface). I seem to keep finding that Dark eldar are the better main force with eldar being the allies.

6th edition Eldar/Dark Eldar stats total- W:14 L:3 T:2
V.S. -5/1/1 -1/0/0 -0/1/0 - 0/1/0 -1/0/0 -2/0/1 4/0/0 1/0/0
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Use a Phoenix lord to tank shots for the Harly star instead of the shadow archon and take IG allies IMO. The long range support really compliments at least my eldar plays style.

Also, shining spears are still over priced and terrible. 35 points for a tough 4, 3+ armor model with 1 attack just should not be. Like swooping hawks, their mobility doesn't mean anything if you're paying way too much that your opponent is just going to swat off the table.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/08/28 20:08:23


 
   
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NYC

Tau broadside/FW gunline supplemented by a farseer for rerolls.

Harlequin Deathstar.

Instant tabled opponent.

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Broadsides already are twinlinked so they cant get guided. Fire warriors bring 30" mass S5 shots. Not to shabby. Along with some ranger support that could start to turn int something.

I really want to get myself a Harlequin box or 2 to make a star with, but I feel the second I spend the $, a corrected FAQ will come out.

6th edition Eldar/Dark Eldar stats total- W:14 L:3 T:2
V.S. -5/1/1 -1/0/0 -0/1/0 - 0/1/0 -1/0/0 -2/0/1 4/0/0 1/0/0
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Limerick

Warptide wrote:
Use a Phoenix lord to tank shots for the Harly star instead of the shadow archon and take IG allies IMO.


Why? The Phoenix Lord's save can be negated, the Shadow Field can't, and with re-rollable 2++ it is unlikely to fail and thus go away. And BTW, why use a Shadow Archon when you can take Vect or the Baron instead?

 TheCaptain wrote:
Tau broadside/FW gunline supplemented by a farseer for rerolls.

Harlequin Deathstar.

Instant tabled opponent.




I've beat this; I must be cheating.

Seriously dude, at this rate I'm starting to think you are throwing out the term 'instant tabled' just for gaks and giggles, seeing as this is the third time this week I've seen you say it for different lists. Somewhere along the line you'll have covered everything and surely go insane from all of your 'instant tabled' lists coming to stalemates.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/08/28 20:38:05


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 Razgriz22 wrote:
Broadsides already are twinlinked so they cant get guided. Fire warriors bring 30" mass S5 shots. Not to shabby. Along with some ranger support that could start to turn int something.

I really want to get myself a Harlequin box or 2 to make a star with, but I feel the second I spend the $, a corrected FAQ will come out.


Broadsides are just there because they make for an amazing tool to a gunline. The farseer fortuning firewarriors, dooming their targets, and using runes of warding to make psychic powers hell for your opponents to cast; that's some sexy stuff right thurr.

Harliestar should be good for a while, I wouldn't worry about it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 TheCaptain wrote:
Tau broadside/FW gunline supplemented by a farseer for rerolls.

Harlequin Deathstar.

Instant tabled opponent.




I've beat this; I must be cheating.

Seriously dude, at this rate I'm starting to think you are throwing out the term 'instant tabled' just for gaks and giggles, seeing as this is the third time this week I've seen you say it for different lists. Somewhere along the line you'll have covered everything and surely go insane from all of your 'instant tabled' lists coming to stalemates.


Covered EVERYTHING?! Everything in the world? Even babies, grandparents, trees, posters, and tables? Surely go insane? Like you can guarantee with 100% assuredness I'll develop a legal major mental illnes?

But really, wow. For real? Deep breaths for a second; what we have here is a mechanic in the english language called "hyperbole". It's when a speaker exaggerates something to stress an extreme.

If I say "Chocolate is the perfect candy!" are you gunna' pick it apart, tell me there's calories, it doesn't have sprinkles, etc? Nah. Because I'm just saying it's really REALLY good.

Same thing here. You are fully aware there is no list that can INSTANTLY table an opponent. It is outside the mechanics of the game. What I mean is it is an incredibly good list. Jesus.

I know understanding sarcasm, hyperbole, exaggeration and the like may be difficult, but please at least make an attempt. It's exhausting to give you the same explanation over and over.

PS. Lists don't win games; players using the lists right do. When two optimized lists face off, the better player wins.

This message was edited 6 times. Last update was at 2012/08/28 20:55:59


Dakka member since 2012/01/09 16:44:06

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Putting all the "internet arguing" aside, I think Eldar have a very good thing going for them with tau and dark eldar allies. Both bring more to the table then a straight eldar list. With Tau and Eldar both having very aged codecs, it's nice to be able to breathe some life into them with an ally. A pair Broadsides are wonderful and I would never field Tau and not take a pair. I would be interested to see how Tau start to look (and things could get even better for us Eldar) when they get a new dex.

6th edition Eldar/Dark Eldar stats total- W:14 L:3 T:2
V.S. -5/1/1 -1/0/0 -0/1/0 - 0/1/0 -1/0/0 -2/0/1 4/0/0 1/0/0
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NYC

 Razgriz22 wrote:
Putting all the "internet arguing" aside, I think Eldar have a very good thing going for them with tau and dark eldar allies. Both bring more to the table then a straight eldar list. With Tau and Eldar both having very aged codecs, it's nice to be able to breathe some life into them with an ally. A pair Broadsides are wonderful and I would never field Tau and not take a pair. I would be interested to see how Tau start to look (and things could get even better for us Eldar) when they get a new dex.


Tau allies do a lot of great things for Eldar; Broadsides allow them to better deal with flyers; and also give them long-ranged anti-tank so that you can put firedragons away. Battlesuits give you some nice 2+ armor saves, and FW's are pimpin' shooters.

Dakka member since 2012/01/09 16:44:06

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 Godless-Mimicry wrote:
Magc8Ball wrote:I've actually been considering putting together a small detachment from the Grey Knights codex: Coteaz and a unit of Crusaders. 12 Crusaders isn't a KILL ALL THE THINGS close combat unit, but they are quite survivable with their 3++ save and Coteaz has his own two powers to roll for to support them. This would also allow you to bring a unit full of Psykers for a nice cheap pie plate


You might want to either read the allies rules again, or the Eldar tactica, because either you aren't taking a Farseer for whatever reason, or you aren't aware that Runes of Warding affects any allies that aren't Battle Brothers, so no, Coteaz isn't lending psychic support, and no, those Psykers aren't putting out blasts by rolling 8 on 3 dice (not to mention Perils wipes the squad).


The implication with this would be that I wouldn't actually field the Runes of Witnessing on the Farseer if I was running this configuration. Naturally it wouldn't be a list that I'd run in an environment with an excess of psykers, but the place I've been playing at recently is rather heavy in Necrons and psyker-light armies at the moment and less so the psy-heavy forces. It'd be a measured choice based on the environment one expects to face in any given time and place, and not a full-time army decision.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/08/28 21:02:56


 
   
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Limerick

TheCaptain wrote:what we have here is a mechanic in the english language called "hyperbole". It's when a speaker exaggerates something to stress an extreme.


I'm perfectly aware of what hyperbole is, just as I am aware that it weakens a statement/argument terribly, or in the case of pushing hyperbole to the utmost extreme, such as saying things like 'instant tabling', it invalidates an argument completely. The problem is, you use it way too much, and you've gone on the record saying you do troll to get a reaction for people at times; so when should someone take you seriously then? Think of it like the boy who cried wolf; you troll one too many times then people are going to assuming you are trolling most of the time, especially when you've admitted to doing it. Your last thread which devolved into a debate on your character should have thought you these things, and if you don't care what other people think, that's fine and more power to you, but then don't complain when people call you on it.

I'll make an effort to better understand whether you are serious or not, but you need to make a much bigger effort to try and be taken a bit more seriously. I'm sure no one is so incapable of coming up with a compelling argument that they need to be hyperbolic so much, you included. Thing is I've seen clearly serious posts by you, and you obvious know the game very well, so I don't understand why you go and shred that credibility by saying silly comments to get a rise.

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 Godless-Mimicry wrote:

I'm perfectly aware of what hyperbole is, just as I am aware that it weakens a statement/argument terribly, or in the case of pushing hyperbole to the utmost extreme, such as saying things like 'instant tabling', it invalidates an argument completely.

Hyperbole can be used correctly; like when the speaker deems a full-explanation unnecessary, or deems the point needs to be stressed. Harkening back, saying I like chocolate a lot, and saying chocolate is the best are two very different statements; one uses hyperbole, one does not. The one employing hyperbole gets the point across that I like chocolate much more than a lot, while avoiding saying something like "I like chocolate so so so so so so so so so so so much!!!!" (Ironically, I don't eat chocolate, but it fits for the argument.) Saying Tau+Eldar is a great combination is one thing, and maybe it would have fit; but my feelings on the combination are that it is better than great, and describing it as "instant tabling" was my way of expressing such.

The problem is, you use it way too much

That's a subjective statement. I have no way of mediating how many of my posts users see; you've clearly seen all my uses of hyperbole, but some users may have just seen this one.

I'll make an effort to better understand whether you are serious or not, but you need to make a much bigger effort to try and be taken a bit more seriously.

To the first bit, thank you. To the second bit, I don't necessarily think I do. It's up to the reader whether or not they want to take me seriously; abrasiveness, hyperbole, and arrogance aside, I always provide good advice. If the reader chooses to see the aforementioned Tau+Eldar statement as poor use of words, and thus ignores it, so be it. They are at that liberty, just as they are at liberty to toss the hyperbole aside and glean from it that tau and eldar work handsomely in concert.

Thing is I've seen clearly serious posts by you, and you obvious know the game very well

Oh, I know the game perfectly, but thank you (Totally a joke...maybe. Probably not. Could be.)



Now let's balance this with some on-topic discussion.

To magic8ball, why run a crusader deathstar when harlies are more available, cheaper than bringing a full allied contingent, and can be affected by Eldar psykers, this letting you use RoW? (Which is an amazing piece of wargear).

I get the whole "It's not in my meta" deal, but what is stopping a player from deviating from the meta and slapping everyone around?

My meta doesn't include many flyers, so not many players have anti-flyer strength. So I'll field a vendetta and two valks and put on my "I'm sorry" face.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/08/28 22:33:58


Dakka member since 2012/01/09 16:44:06

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 TheCaptain wrote:
To magic8ball, why run a crusader deathstar when harlies are more available, cheaper than bringing a full allied contingent, and can be affected by Eldar psykers, this letting you use RoW? (Which is an amazing piece of wargear).

(Plus Meta bit)


The idea behind using the Crusaders was to find something that sort of fit in between Storm Guardians and Scorpions/Banshees in the cost-effectiveness spectrum as a reactionary melee unit as opposed to a purely offensive/Deathstar unit. To be honest... I'd largely just forgotten about Harlequins when I was thinking of it. That said, I don't think that a unit of "Crusader Guardians" would necessarily be outperformed by Harlies if their role is clearly defined. For instance, the Crusaders are scoring (in this context), and their 3++ save makes them more durable than the Harlequins in that role (at least, I think, since I can't remember offhand what sort of saves the Harlies carry).

I'm not trying to propose that Crusaders would be an ultrapowerful option, but just that they might be something interesting that could give another twist to an Eldar force in an unexpected way as well as providing a melee unit that wouldn't melt under overwatch fire as Banshees would. I've been trying to find some way to work with my beloved Scorpions since the 6E transport changes, and this was something that I felt might be worth exploring.

What it comes down to, though, is that I just like looking for options that will give me something interesting to convert and paint (Guardians with Stormshields and a Farseer with a hammer? Yes, please). Even if it might be a little sub-optimal, it is useful to make sure that all possible options get explored and discussed.

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Limerick

Put it this way; you must have seen how quickly 10 Marines can go down to masses of standard fire? Well those Crusaders are just 10 Marines except only T3. One standard Tactical Squad double tapping them will kill 3 per turn. It would be very easy for an army to shoot enough to wipe them out in one go and still have shooting to spare; doesn't sound really like what you are looking for.

BTW, cudos on converting your allies to be part of your army.

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Corsairs would actually be VERY fun to ally in :-). But sadly, they would be very expensive to do.

6th edition Eldar/Dark Eldar stats total- W:14 L:3 T:2
V.S. -5/1/1 -1/0/0 -0/1/0 - 0/1/0 -1/0/0 -2/0/1 4/0/0 1/0/0
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 Godless-Mimicry wrote:
Magc8Ball wrote:I've actually been considering putting together a small detachment from the Grey Knights codex: Coteaz and a unit of Crusaders. 12 Crusaders isn't a KILL ALL THE THINGS close combat unit, but they are quite survivable with their 3++ save and Coteaz has his own two powers to roll for to support them. This would also allow you to bring a unit full of Psykers for a nice cheap pie plate


You might want to either read the allies rules again, or the Eldar tactica, because either you aren't taking a Farseer for whatever reason, or you aren't aware that Runes of Warding affects any allies that aren't Battle Brothers, so no, Coteaz isn't lending psychic support, and no, those Psykers aren't putting out blasts by rolling 8 on 3 dice (not to mention Perils wipes the squad).


^this^
that was literally the worst tactic for a allied detachment


 
   
 
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