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Just a quick one guys.

Since 6th ed, prince or grinder?

Well, what do you want to do with them?

always Princes.

Well every time I include a prince it always seems like a point sink. But since grinders can be glanced to death it seems silly taking them over a prince.!

It would a versatile unit I suppose. Light armoured tanks and infantry??

BOLS (bell of lost souls) did a great piece on this. Here is the link:
http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2012/08/40k-x-vs-y-soul-grinder-vs-daemon-prince.html

I have always seen DPs as the better option, even before I saw this link. Long story short 'Grinders are the only vehicle option in a Daemon Army, so all anti-tank that the enemy has will likely be focused on that (and any good army will have a good amount of anti-tank).

DPs are a lot more flexible and can be basically any unit you want them to be. Even if they do cost more points in the long run.

Personally, I would likely go 1 Soul Grinder then 1-2 Daemon Princes in my HS slots.

But that's mostly cos I like the Grinder model, screw tactics

I would also take princes over grinders. I really like soul grinders but as someone else said, every anti-tank weapon in your opponents army is going to be aimed at them as soon as they come down, whereas with daemon princes the most damage those strength 8-10 weapons can do is take one wound off at a time. With wings they can also be pretty survivable, though they are very expensive when tooled up.

I agree with the posters above me. In 5th it could be debated that Grinders were better than Princes in certain lists and circumstances. In 6th, with the FMC rules and missions like Big Guns Never Tire, the Princes are always better IMO. Their maneuverability and flexibility put them way ahead of Grinders.

If Grinders got the 5++ from the Daemon rule it might make this discussion interesting again, but as it stands, it's Princes. Always.

Princes for me, what they lack in ranged weaponry they make up for in the lack of damage they take and how much it takes to kill them.

Andy140491 wrote:
Well every time I include a prince it always seems like a point sink. But since grinders can be glanced to death it seems silly taking them over a prince.!

It would a versatile unit I suppose. Light armoured tanks and infantry??

Grinders can't be glanced to death by a squad full of rapid fire bolters though. Both have their plus and minus.

I used grinders couple times, and... 1 grinder sucks hard, 3 grinders are super cool. One is not enough because whole antitank of enemy goes to take him down... if you have 3 of them, life is easier. They stomp pretty well.
Princes... they are more universal i think, easier to hide.. And now, since we can fly high with them, shooting princes can do the job well. shoot nice, hard to kill. For close combat daemons have other things.

Why not both? And it depends really on your army of choice.

I'd say DP over Grinders, sure Grinders have that armour value that protects them from small arms fire, and yes they are the only vehicle in the CD army list but put simply a single Krak Missile can take them down so the enemy wouldn't even need that much AT to take em out... Sure enough DPs go down like a sack of spuds to enough small arms fire, but with 3 of them in an army its not a big loss if one dies and if all 3 are being rapid fired to death your probably doing something wrong...

thisisnotpancho wrote:
BOLS (bell of lost souls) did a great piece on this. Here is the link:
http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2012/08/40k-x-vs-y-soul-grinder-vs-daemon-prince.html

I have always seen DPs as the better option, even before I saw this link. Long story short 'Grinders are the only vehicle option in a Daemon Army, so all anti-tank that the enemy has will likely be focused on that (and any good army will have a good amount of anti-tank).

DPs are a lot more flexible and can be basically any unit you want them to be. Even if they do cost more points in the long run.

Ummm...if you have no vehicles and only a daemon prince then your daemon prince will eat all of that anti-tank just as much as the soul grinder would. Yeah the daemon prince doesn't have hull points, but it has wounds so it is about the same. It all depends on what you want to do with it. I prefer at least one in my army. The grinder gets the tongue ability so that he can take out enemy hard targets. The daemon prince gets wings so that he can get up close and personal pretty quick to give my opponent something more to worry about than shooting at my grinder from a far.

Skriker

Soul Grinders are amazing, they are a bargain for their points which cannot be said for deamon princes.

I'll also echo what others have said - the enemy will be using their anti-tank on your MCs anyway. The Soul Grinder is great for hanging back in your deployment zone, blasting the enemy with it's battle cannon thing, then if any enemy's get close to your objectives you can flame/assault them to devestating effect.

Only real problem is the damn size of the thing. Deep-striking without an icon can be cumbersome, so always put it in your second wave.

 Testify wrote:
Soul Grinders are amazing, they are a bargain for their points which cannot be said for deamon princes.

I'll also echo what others have said - the enemy will be using their anti-tank on your MCs anyway. The Soul Grinder is great for hanging back in your deployment zone, blasting the enemy with it's battle cannon thing, then if any enemy's get close to your objectives you can flame/assault them to devestating effect.

Only real problem is the damn size of the thing. Deep-striking without an icon can be cumbersome, so always put it in your second wave.

I prefer that my DPs get shot with a few anti-tank weapons over massed small arms fire. I use MoT on my Princes, so a re-rollable 4++ (yay Fateweaver) and Hard to Hit from swooping makes them so much more resilient than a Grinder could hope to be. In addition their speed lets me project force across the whole board, they're decent in CC and can kill buildings and vehicles with ease.

Everyone here will have differing ideas so there is no 1 sure fire way to decide, it really is a case of try and see what you find works best.

IMO:

1 grinder and 2 princes - Sucks big time, the grinder will spend 1-2 turns alive at the most and princes get saturated with fire.

2 grinders and 1 prince - Again, has issues as all anti-infantry weapons get pumped into the prince and bring him down quickly.
Also, 2 armoured targets still dont last.

3 grinders - Love this.
Ill run 3 grinders with phlegm and 1 with tongue aswell for extra kicks.
You do have to be careful though as they do break fairly easily still, but it does'nt hurt as badly when one of them takes a 1st round lascannon to the face.

3 princes - Again, like triple grinders it works well for me, but i do find i tend to put quite a few points into them.
I find that either MoN or MoT is needed to keep them going and wings are a must.
This pushes points up very quickly and thats without any other toys.



To me, its a case of running 3 grinders or princes, mixing them does'nt do a great deal for me so i rather stick with 1 type and 1 type only.

 undertow wrote:

 Testify wrote:
Soul Grinders are amazing, they are a bargain for their points which cannot be said for deamon princes.

I'll also echo what others have said - the enemy will be using their anti-tank on your MCs anyway. The Soul Grinder is great for hanging back in your deployment zone, blasting the enemy with it's battle cannon thing, then if any enemy's get close to your objectives you can flame/assault them to devestating effect.

Only real problem is the damn size of the thing. Deep-striking without an icon can be cumbersome, so always put it in your second wave.

I prefer that my DPs get shot with a few anti-tank weapons over massed small arms fire. I use MoT on my Princes, so a re-rollable 4++ (yay Fateweaver) and Hard to Hit from swooping makes them so much more resilient than a Grinder could hope to be. In addition their speed lets me project force across the whole board, they're decent in CC and can kill buildings and vehicles with ease.

I use MOT DPs as well, with Fateweaver. I know how difficult it is to kill a re-rollable 4++ 4 wounds hart to hit MC. But a Soul Grinder's survivability comes from it being at the back of the board.
Honestly it depends on point levels and FOC restrictions. The problem is that Flying Circus and Flamer spam are so powerful that nothing else really gets a look in. I find this boring, Soul Grinders spice it up a lot and IIRC they're 150 points with the battle cannon upgrade, which is pretty decent for what you get.

Soul Grinders.