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I want to get some DE to go with my Eldar, but Idon't have the 'dex, and was just wondering what you guys thought; what kind of thing do I get to go with Eldar? I don't really know since I have never played DE.

I could really do with some guidance

Thanks
-Farseer Tahril

Well It would definetly be a solid choice to take DE as an ally. But what you may come to realize is that it slowly becomes smarter to play DE and take Eldar allies :-(.

My suggestion is to pick up the codex. Its a good one. And just read up on things. Take units that pick up where your eldar army lacks.

I've been finding the Eldar codex has 2 main things that it needs from allies.

1st is the need for good troop choices. With the way 6th changed transports and scoring the DAVU is dead which really hurts Eldar. The wave serpent is also over costed now with the introduction of the hull point system. The best thing for Eldar here is to ally with a SM chapter. 2 units of 3+ armor troops toting various heavy weapons does wonders for an Eldar army. Lately I've been using BA assault squads as they can match the speed of Eldar, are scoring, and add a needed assault element to Eldar now that you can't assault out of transports.

The second option to go for is offence. And DE as well as Tau are helpful here DE add some cheap DL weapons as well as fliers. Tau add in long range anti-tank in the form of broadsides.

So it really depends what kind of Eldar list you're running and adding the faction the patches up your weaknesses.

Maybe I just hate SM's.... But I would never take them with Eldar. Eldar are just too pretentious, cocky, pricks to buddy with humans. They would rather see an entire imperial world burn then watch one eldar soul perish. Thats the fluff side at least.

On the game side, Eldar and DE can join up with their independent characters for some really awesome combinations. That is a huge benefit of battle brothers. Bright lances are stupid expensive to field and are mostly slapped onto BS3 platforms. DE can take Dark lances for quite cheap and on things that are BS4. A ravager alone is an invaluable asset to the Eldar. I jsut feel the synergy that can be obtained from Eldar and DE is so much greater then many other alliances. DE can match speed, range, and can join with IC's for major boosts.

well
5 man wych/haywire squads in a venom are cheap anti infantry and AT(combat). They can score and add in some tarpit into another combat.

Ravagers are great buys

Shadowfielded archons are great in seer councils that are going to be fortuned.

Reaver Jetbikes are awesome these days

Playing DE with Eldar makes for a different army than other ally combinations. It slants the list towards a very kill or be killed strategy. I've played several games with 2 heywych venom squads + a razorwing and mandatory heamy and didn't really like the play style. (Personal preference here)

Where I've been playing the standard procedure for fighting against Eldar has been target the troops since the beginning of 5th. I've been finding that in 6th troops have become even more important for Eldar. Our troops outside of transports are very fragile and prone to being wiped out if the opponent has a mid to do that from turn 1. Also good Eldar lists (at reasonable point levels) don't max out fast attack this means that in The Scouring mission you are at a huge disadvantage.

Maybe its just my meta but allying with SMs have done me way more good than DE. DE really cant help the troop woes and as an ally detachment can't swing the balance of a shooting match against IG/SW/GK on their own.

When DE is the main force and Eldar are the ally things are different and I feel that is a much more competitive set up but using allies from a SM book has helped keep me in the game longer and offset the GW nerf to our troop transports.

And since were interjecting fluff into the tactics forum, for the record I love the Saim hann+BA combo. People can do crazy things when Orks, Nids, or Chaos are in the neighborhood.

Blood angels and Saim Han actually do sound kind of hilariously funny, In a good way.

I guess it does come down to a personal preference, but bringing 2 tac squads and what other SM stuff you take jsut doesnt fit my style I guess. And if you really want solid troops and are going the SM route, there is no reason to not make the ally space wolves. Grey hunters are the best.

But in the end, no matter how cute those little wolves are, I just cant take 3+ save allies.

Back on the DE topic I think if it were me I would run Kabalite Warriors in Raiders, either one or two units, points depending for my troops. Heywire toting wyches in venoms can be good too depending if you want more anti-tank personally I'm a sucker for the poisoned shooting + DL weapon the warriors and their Raider bring.

Second I really like the razorwing or void raven but a ravager would be just as good of a choice and can really pack on the lances to fill the long range anti tank role. Then if you have points still I would run blasterborn in a venom if you want elites. reaver jetbikes or a squad of scourges for Fast Attack if you want to take the maximum number of DE units the allies chart allows. If not just trim as needed for your list.

On a side note I didn't list an HQ as I'm still very up in the air on how to run one with a typical TAC Eldar army. I've seen discussion on Baron, Duke, a Heamy or Blaster Archon all being used but I have yet to really settle on one as the best. That being said what are other people using for a DE HQ in their combined Eldar forces and what units does he join/ what tactics have been successful?

Difference between the Ravager and the Void Raven though is that the Ravager is made out of paper, whereas the Void Raven is made out of wet card that floats on the air very well somehow and is very hard to hit.

I play Eldar. Thinking about it, taking a Transport with a Troop+ HQ and a Ravager with 3 Dark Lances wouldn't be a bad addition to my army, especially if you paint your allies as your primary force and make it like they're the same army - a gathered up warband. that would be kinda fun! Definitely an idea I'll bounce around in the back of my head.

 evildrspock wrote:
...especially if you paint your allies as your primary force and make it like they're the same army - a gathered up warband. that would be kinda fun! Definitely an idea I'll bounce around in the back of my head.

Always a good idea! Gives the army much more overall coherency and even lets you mess around with the fluff of the allied choices, too.

 Magc8Ball wrote:

 evildrspock wrote:
...especially if you paint your allies as your primary force and make it like they're the same army - a gathered up warband. that would be kinda fun! Definitely an idea I'll bounce around in the back of my head.

Always a good idea! Gives the army much more overall coherency and even lets you mess around with the fluff of the allied choices, too.

Hey, your army looks like mine! (Sans the Dark Eldar)

LOVE that razorwing conversion. I am thinking up ways to pull off a SR-71 Blackbird conversion for a voidraven bomber :-)

I have a buddy who's gonna bring a MC party with Avatar, Wraithlord, and Talos (Not sure who's allied or who's primary). I know with A Dual Force Organization chart and Allies, at 2k you could probably squeeze in 2 Avatars, 6 Wraithlords, and 2 Talos, of 6 Talos, 2 Avatars, And 2 Wraithlords, With your minimum 6 troop choices.

Never thought of adding DE MC's to the wraithzilla list. Don't know enough about them I guess. What do they bring to the table that a wraitlord cant?

evildrspock wrote:I have a buddy who's gonna bring a MC party with Avatar, Wraithlord, and Talos (Not sure who's allied or who's primary). I know with A Dual Force Organization chart and Allies, at 2k you could probably squeeze in 2 Avatars, 6 Wraithlords, and 2 Talos, of 6 Talos, 2 Avatars, And 2 Wraithlords, With your minimum 6 troop choices.

Hey, that sounds like my list! You can only run one avatar per army though.

Razgriz22 wrote:Never thought of adding DE MC's to the wraithzilla list. Don't know enough about them I guess. What do they bring to the table that a wraitlord cant?

I have DE in my wraithzilla with the talos. The talos is basically a cheap target. I expect it to die most games before it does anything, so it usually just serves as distraction. The haywire blaster gives it an AT option while it gets into charge range, and chain flails make it a beast in combat. If it does get into combat, you can easily shred most units outright.

It adds another high T body that is less shooty, but more dangerous in CC(and does not need a babysitter for wraithsight). If it survives long enough to get a pain token or two, it can be really nasty.

 Dr. Serling wrote:

evildrspock wrote:I have a buddy who's gonna bring a MC party with Avatar, Wraithlord, and Talos (Not sure who's allied or who's primary). I know with A Dual Force Organization chart and Allies, at 2k you could probably squeeze in 2 Avatars, 6 Wraithlords, and 2 Talos, of 6 Talos, 2 Avatars, And 2 Wraithlords, With your minimum 6 troop choices.

Hey, that sounds like my list! You can only run one avatar per army though.

Razgriz22 wrote:Never thought of adding DE MC's to the wraithzilla list. Don't know enough about them I guess. What do they bring to the table that a wraitlord cant?

I have DE in my wraithzilla with the talos. The talos is basically a cheap target. I expect it to die most games before it does anything, so it usually just serves as distraction. The haywire blaster gives it an AT option while it gets into charge range, and chain flails make it a beast in combat. If it does get into combat, you can easily shred most units outright.

It adds another high T body that is less shooty, but more dangerous in CC(and does not need a babysitter for wraithsight). If it survives long enough to get a pain token or two, it can be really nasty.

Please Stop telling me these things....

Must ...resist ...urge to buy talos.....

I'd just like to remind all of you that Eldar do happen to have a Troop choice with a 3+ armour save. Gaurdian Jet Bike Squads. Also a non-fluffy reason I have not to bring SM is that every point counts for an Eldar army, why would you spend points on units that you can't buff, just kinda seems like a waste to me.

While the bikes have the 3+ and the speed, and a 5+ jink....they cost 22 pts a pop and 15$ a model. So they arent quite as cost efficient as marine allies. Nor do the guns they carry pack enough of a punch to make me go woooooo

But you do make a good point.

There's another 3+ Armorsave troop choice available to Eldar - Wraithguard. (in groups of 10 of course)

I definitely see and understand the cost effective part (they should at least come in boxes of 3 for $30, with a Shuriken Cannon upgrade included). But in my opinion, Eldar Jetbikes got way better in this edition. You always get a 5+ Coversave as long as you move, your Farseer can cast fortune and Flatout an additional 36" in the same turn now, so he can lead and buff a Guardian Jetbike Squad (my favorite is 6 strong, lead by a Warlock and A Farseer if he is available) and they can get rerollable 3+/5++. which is pretty good in my opinion. Plus, Shuriken Cannons and Twin-Linked Shuriken Catapults are nothing to scoff at, along with two Singing Spears (which, when thrown, are still Strength 9+1d6, not Strength 3 + 2d6).

Now, my experience is based simply off of using them; back in the day I had 3 and I hated the SOB's. That was before I was a very good player, though - EJB's are very much worth their points, I think. You just cannot be super aggressive with them, though.

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I took an Eldar Skimmer Ally force with my Imperial Fists Tactical Terminator Force. To make room for the points, I cut my heavy support (Probably should have cut some Dreadnoughts first), but I really was missing the lack of heavy weapons. Now, I was trying to bring 700 points of terminators at the same time, and it seemed perfect in my head ... but it taught me you have to have a carefully planned/balanced list to make the allies useful and worth it.

I still think Eldar could find some terminator allies useful, if I could just find a good way to do it.

I have tried the farseer with guardian jetbikes but just have not be happy with the results. yes they can take fire and be a survivable troop choice. But at the same time they dont put up much of a hurt.

Granted I haven't had much experience with this unit, only tried it a few times. So maybe I was playing them wrong.

I played this unit in every 1500pt list from the beginning of 5th till the release of the Necron codex

Jetseer- Doom, Fortune, Stones, Spear, RoW (178)
6 Jetbikes- 2 Cannons + Warlock, Embolden, Spear (205)

It was a fun unit to play and acted like a poor mans seer council in that it was able to take a beating with the 3+ rerollable armor save and paired with Doom it could do some damage as well as being a good way to get your farseer right where you need him. The two spears could threaten tanks and with Doom it also has a chance to dent T6 units. I would frequently set up a Bladestorm DA unit in conjunction with the Jetbike squad to annihilate any "hard" infantry targets the enemy had.

More and more it came down to points as other armies got firepower for cheaper I switched to a foot seer in a wave serpent and used the Jetbikes for last minute objective grabbing in small units. It really came down to Guide as if the unit if floating around mid field it really cant make use of guide on warwalkers which I found too good to pass up.

I think the poor man's council is fun to play but really isn't competitive.

 Razgriz22 wrote:
Well It would definetly be a solid choice to take DE as an ally. But what you may come to realize is that it slowly becomes smarter to play DE and take Eldar allies :-(.

My suggestion is to pick up the codex. Its a good one. And just read up on things. Take units that pick up where your eldar army lacks.

Dont be too disheartened! New Eldar Dex for 6th ed is hitting early 2013, after Tau.

 ZakFaire wrote:

 Razgriz22 wrote:
Well It would definetly be a solid choice to take DE as an ally. But what you may come to realize is that it slowly becomes smarter to play DE and take Eldar allies :-(.

My suggestion is to pick up the codex. Its a good one. And just read up on things. Take units that pick up where your eldar army lacks.

Dont be too disheartened! New Eldar Dex for 6th ed is hitting early 2013, after Tau.

Rumors are Rumors. Choas marines and dark angels still need to come out. Then more then likely Tau. This will be spread apart by other GW products as well. I wouldnt expect Eldar for another year. Or until some kind of solid proof shows its head.

Huge great big News ....

GW have finally released a multipack for wraithguard.
What's not to like?
They're cheaper than they were metal, now at £7.50/model.

They've brought out 3 of the Pheonix lords, Yriel, Farseer with singing spear, Autarch with Fusion Gun, Shining Spear Upgrade Pack, Storm Guardian Upgrade pack and Shreiker Jetbike upgrade pack.
There's also some BA models and Grimaldus and Co. for you space marine players.

-Farseer Tahril

I Picked up some thunderwolf cavalry for my Space Wolf Allies. I like the idea of a fast flexible CC unit that wont crumble right away. And access to my personal favorite troop choice in any SM army. Grey Hunters. Thoughts? Has anyone else tried this?

I say if your into playing footdar, take some Tau allies.

Shas'El plasmarifle/missilepod thrusters BSF

3x Crisis Suits missilepods/plasma rifles targetlocks(on 2, BSf on leader)Team Leader with drone controller 2x shield drones

12x firewarriors shas'ui markerlight targetlock

2xbroadsides stablizers (team leader with BSF, targetlock, MT plasmarifle)

You can join a Jetseer to the criss suit squad for a shooty deathstar. Reroll hits, ignore covers saves and move 2d6 in the assault phase.