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Played against a 'Nidzilla army today and just got throttled, those carnifexes could just eat everything I threw at them. The player was smart enough to know not to melee my lords, so the scarabs and scythes did not help at all. I was wondering if you all had any advice on how to fix this

Here's the list I ran-
HQ

Nemesor Zahndrekh- (185)
Vargard Obyron-(160)
Court-
Lord- warscythe, scarabs (60)
Cryptek, destruction, gaze of flame, solar pulse (65)
Cryptek, Storm, Ether Crystal (40)

Overlord - warscythe, scarabs, weave, Res. Orb (160)
Court-
Lord - warscythe, scarabs (60)
Cryptek, destruction, gaze of flame, solar pulse (65)
Cryptek, Storm, Ether Crystal (40)
(835)

Troops

Warriors x 20, (260) (Joined by Stormx2)
Immortals x 10, (gauss)(170) (Joined by Zahndrekh, Vargard, Lord, and Destruction)
Immortals x 10, (tesla)(170) (Joined by Overlord, Lord, and Destruction)
(600)

Heavy Support

Annihilation Barge x2 (180)
Doomsday Ark (175)
(355)
(1790)
As a second note- of the models represented here, the only other ones I own are 5 scarab bases and a generic overlord. I would love to hear if there is a way to make this work against MC's with the models I got, but if there is no way, don't hold back.

i would just spam as much tesla as possible. utilize the night scythes if you have them, fexes cant really do much against them, and with enough shots you will take them down eventually. other then that, an overlord with MSS warscythe and phase shifter can put the hurt on one, especially if you wack it on a few drive bys via a CCB first. - thats how i deal with nid beasties... should work ok for you as well.

Yeah, issue there is I modeled both my barges as Annihilation, and I don't own any flyers

 Dragonfodder wrote:
Yeah, issue there is I modeled both my barges as Annihilation, and I don't own any flyers

Did you glue the destructors on? Those didnt have to be glued on you know...

Yeah, i did :( This is my first army, I didn't think not to.

Well thats no good!

Maybe you could try proxying some deathmarks then? Sniper weapons are pretty good against MCs. Mark the most dangerous one so you wound on a 2+ instead of a 4+. Multiple deathmark squads equal multiple marks.

The suggestion that you up the tesla is a good one too. The more wounds you force...the more likely they are to go through.

Heavy Destroyers work just fine. S9 AP 2 shots are nothing to mess around with and you may now even re-roll 1s, thus each shot has a 83% chance to hit. You lack the models, though, and the are pretty damn expensive :/

Destro-Court works just as well (4 Destroteks, 1 Chronotek), despite them only being S8 hits.

Your army is too HQ heavy with 835 pts. You need more dakka in the army (telsa, gauss).

Wraiths are actually very good at dealing with Tyranid Monstrous Creatures. Even a Trygon or Carnifex will be lucky to kill one per turn. They wound all of our creatures on a 4+ (strength 6) and the rends will knock off a few wounds per turn.

You can also be very aggressive with your Lords. A MSS Lord should feel comfortable charging a Carnifex (who has ~84% chance to fail the test). Even if one of our MC makes it to you, just challenge it. We can't refuse and you stand a good chance of winning, or at least not losing much of your squad.

Oddly enough, your own monstrous creatures, specifically Canoptek Spyders can fight most of our monstrous creatures point-for-point. 3 Spyders for a mere 150 points will easily fight our more expensive Carnifex or Trygon.

Lastly, massed and focused fire kills everything. Nearly every unit in your army (the warriors, the immortals, the annihilation barges, etc) should knock at least a wound off a MC when it shoots. You have 24" range guns and we have to assault...back up while shooting and you should be able to put down 1-2 monstrous creatures before we even reach you.

Siphen wrote:
Wraiths are actually very good at dealing with Tyranid Monstrous Creatures. Even a Trygon or Carnifex will be lucky to kill one per turn. They wound all of our creatures on a 4+ (strength 6) and the rends will knock off a few wounds per turn.

You can also be very aggressive with your Lords. A MSS Lord should feel comfortable charging a Carnifex (who has ~84% chance to fail the test). Even if one of our MC makes it to you, just challenge it. We can't refuse and you stand a good chance of winning, or at least not losing much of your squad.

Oddly enough, your own monstrous creatures, specifically Canoptek Spyders can fight most of our monstrous creatures point-for-point. 3 Spyders for a mere 150 points will easily fight our more expensive Carnifex or Trygon.

Lastly, massed and focused fire kills everything. Nearly every unit in your army (the warriors, the immortals, the annihilation barges, etc) should knock at least a wound off a MC when it shoots. You have 24" range guns and we have to assault...back up while shooting and you should be able to put down 1-2 monstrous creatures before we even reach you.

That was the odd problem I was having. He was doing shooty MC's and those were absorbing whole rounds of my entire army firing at em. I couldn't convince him to charge me, and I couldn't get close enough to charge. When I tried to deepstrike obyron into a good "damned if you do, damned if you don't" position where I could charge, I rolled a 12" scatter and mishapped, rolled a 1, then deathstar goes boom. But that was just bad luck ontop of a bigger problem- 3 rounds of shooting with my entire army by that point had managed a wound on a tervigon which got healed, 2 dead fexxes out of the 4 he was running, and a couple stray gaunts. There was still a tyrant, a flying tyrant, 2 fexxes, and a swarm of gaunts who beat me to the relic and had the upper had. That being said, I don't like the fact that it appears my lords are the only good anti-MC I have right now.

Thanks for the help everyone... looks like I got to scrap up some money to spend on new models now



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Shake Zoola wrote:
Well thats no good!

Maybe you could try proxying some deathmarks then? Sniper weapons are pretty good against MCs. Mark the most dangerous one so you wound on a 2+ instead of a 4+. Multiple deathmark squads equal multiple marks.

The suggestion that you up the tesla is a good one too. The more wounds you force...the more likely they are to go through.

Also, if I add deathmarks, should I go full-blown death & despair or just use the deathmarks?

 wuestenfux wrote:
Your army too HQ heavy with 835 pts. You need more dakka in the army (telsa, gauss).

This,

Not even my GK army spends close to half that amount in HQs.


Cut it down to one HQ with royal court. Take those points and put them into another couple units of Tesla immortals and a Triarch Stalker.

Siphen wrote:
You can also be very aggressive with your Lords. A MSS Lord should feel comfortable charging a Carnifex (who has ~84% chance to fail the test). Even if one of our MC makes it to you, just challenge it. We can't refuse and you stand a good chance of winning, or at least not losing much of your squad..

Carnifex are not characters and do not take challenges, nor Trygons, so avoid those. But a Lord will have no fear of a single Fex, and not even worry to much with a Trygon. However, a good Nid player should never allow a single MC to be caught out by a MSS model alone.

I would also like to put in a nod towards the 'too much royal court/HQs, not enuff dakka' votes.

Also the ether crystals aren't really reliable enough to warrent inclusion in that list i'd hazard.

Drop the first of your courts, (Nemesor +Vargard Obryon). Instead add in a full squad of whip-coil equipped wraiths.

Nightscythes if you can get them work just fine as troop transports and annihiliation barges are also pretty good vs nids.

Scarabs are also decent; as there are an unusual number of multi-wound models (ie: stuff that you'd actually benefit from using entropic strike on) in most 'nid lists, and no invulnerable saves to be found anywhere typically. To go along with that, canoptek spiders are monsterous creatures too (fire with fire?), and can be geared up to go after stuff like zoanthropes.

 Neorealist wrote:
Scarabs are also decent; as there are an unusual number of multi-wound models (ie: stuff that you'd actually benefit from using entropic strike on) in most 'nid lists, and no invulnerable saves to be found anywhere typically. To go along with that, canoptek spiders are monsterous creatures too (fire with fire?), and can be geared up to go after stuff like zoanthropes.

I would second this, however keep in mind that shooty Fexes will ID your scarabs, so you need to protect them as best as possible and rely on cover and their speed to get close.

I'm hesitant to cut anything but the 2 stormteks from my HQ (stormteks were really there to guard against deep strikers near the doomsday, this is sort of a TAC list) as with several other games I've played, the 2/scythe lord/destrotek per immortal combo worked wonders, and obyron's mobility on a 10 man gauss squad with zahndrekh attached (so he doesn't go and abandon his squad mid-turn) worked great for me before.

 Dragonfodder wrote:

 Shake Zoola wrote:
Well thats no good!

Maybe you could try proxying some deathmarks then? Sniper weapons are pretty good against MCs. Mark the most dangerous one so you wound on a 2+ instead of a 4+. Multiple deathmark squads equal multiple marks.

The suggestion that you up the tesla is a good one too. The more wounds you force...the more likely they are to go through.

Also, if I add deathmarks, should I go full-blown death & despair or just use the deathmarks?

The death and dispair would involve getting REAL close...so close that you WILL be assaulted next turn and killed. Seeing as the MCS are single model units I would say no dont go death and despair. D and D is better for groups so that flame template can hit more guys and get more wounds.

 Shake Zoola wrote:

 Dragonfodder wrote:

 Shake Zoola wrote:
Well thats no good!

Maybe you could try proxying some deathmarks then? Sniper weapons are pretty good against MCs. Mark the most dangerous one so you wound on a 2+ instead of a 4+. Multiple deathmark squads equal multiple marks.

The suggestion that you up the tesla is a good one too. The more wounds you force...the more likely they are to go through.

Also, if I add deathmarks, should I go full-blown death & despair or just use the deathmarks?

The death and dispair would involve getting REAL close...so close that you WILL be assaulted next turn and killed. Seeing as the MCS are single model units I would say no dont go death and despair. D and D is better for groups so that flame template can hit more guys and get more wounds.

Not even for the shroud mobility?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Either way, here's an anti- MC list using the models that I have.

HQ

Nemesor Zahndrekh- (185)
Vargard Obyron-(160)
Court-
Cryptek, destruction, gaze of flame (45)
Cryptek, Despair, Shroud (60)

Overlord - warscythe, scarabs, weave, Res. Orb (160)
Court-
Cryptek, destruction, gaze of flame (45)
Cryptek, Despair, Shroud (60)
(715)
Elites
Deathmark x10 (Joined by Despair, Destruction) (190) (proxy my warriors until I can actually get some)
Deathmark x10 (Joined by Despair, Destruction) (190)
(380)

Troops

Immortals x 10, (gauss)(170) (Joined by Zahndrekh, Vargard)
Immortals x 10, (tesla)(170) (Joined by Overlord)
(340)

Heavy Support

Annihilation Barge x2 (180)
Doomsday Ark (175) (this dude is just a points consideration, if he dies, so be it, hopefully he wounds something before that)
(1790)

My thoughts here are just to teleport dudes all around the board, maybe get some threat-overload goin on, and try to use the deathmarks to take out a couple of the tougher things (like the tervigon or the swarmlord so that he stops using psychic powers)

if you want to go with a royal court DS, then take as many warscythes and mindshckles as you can. in fact do that anyway. i would leave the SC at home.mainly because:

warscythes punch past anything the nids can throw at you. str 7 wounds at worst on 3+ vrs the big baddies, and simply mulches anything less. plus its AP 1 so no armor saves and nids lack invuns. take as many of these as you can get, even go as far as to attach a court lord and overlord to a unit of lychgaurd.

mindshackles also kick serious butt vrs nids. take the heavy hitters out of the fight with them, via challanges or just smart placment on your charge/pile in moves, and youll have no issues. a unit ive used before with much sucsess:
overlord, mss, WS, PS, = 160 5x lords w/ warscythe mss (60 ea) = 460 for the unit. dont really need any other HQ, except maybe a CCB overlord, but with no models, wouldnt bother. a duplicate overlord on foot joining this unit MAYBE if you have the pts. either way, you 6 warscythes, and 6 MSS. so you get 6 shots at just eliminating a model from the fight. the phase shifter on your lord is there for absoarbing heavy hits. maybe also consider a res orb on one of the lords or your overlord for 4+ RP.

with that said you need more dakka. i find 5 immortals with tesla to be simply awsome. take 4-5 of these guys on foot or in nightscythes in you have the models. (you dont so foot works fine) and a unit of 15 warriors. combhine that with the OL kit above and you should have easy time. your troops focus fire on the little ones, maybe snipe some tervigons if they are around, but focus on and bring down his swarm (to prevent them swarming your lords and negating MSS) then use that lord unit to smash down his MC a list with your models and some light proxy conversions would be:

- overlord, mss, ws, phase shifter, orb = 200
- court: 2 lord, ws, mss =120, 1 with resorb (40) = 160


5 immortals w/ tesla =85
5 immortals w/ tesla =85
5 immortals w/ tesla =85
5 immortals w/ tesla =85
15 warriors = 195

5 lychgaurd, ws, = 200
5 wraiths, whipcoils = 225

annihlation barge = 90
annihlation barge = 90


= 1500 on the nose.

the overlord and a court lord join the lychgaurd. the other court lord with resorb joins the warriors, wich become your "centerfield anchor" - they find cover or an objective mid table area, or mid deployment zone and just camp. if you can get the model and go past 1500 pts, a ghost arc is the next unit. this unit just WILL. NOT. DIE.
the immortals are your rovers. split them up into 4 squads, to give more mobility and firing options. try to keep them together, and focus fire on units till they die. target his gaunts or warriors, etc. annihlation barges support them, and go after tervigons as primary (spitting out more gaunts is annoying) or hive gaurd. but since you dont really have vehicles out, hivegaurd are less of a worry. the wraiths are your distraction unit. run them up and bait a MC to go after them, or his genestealers whatever. the wraiths will hold them for a few turns or even win the fight. and can do it vrs almost anything. the lychgaurd squad goes MC hunting. move, run, and close the gap before charging. (or get charged - it dosent matter) lead with the lords or have the lords in front facing the MC, so when it charges it has to btb them, then let MSS do its thing. if it dosent kill itself, finish him off with a ton of WS attacks.

looking at your model list, you would need to get ahold of some wraiths and lychgaurd, but they are very worthwhile boxes and will absloulty bring you much better results vrs not only nids, but anything.

Was he using any of the flying monstrous creatures? I am still a beginner but a few people where I have been playing have been using the Nids with FMCs and using Biomancy on the monstrous creatures. If they get iron arm flying monstrous creatures with toughness 9 just sucks to deal with. Even toughness 9 monstrous creatures are tough to deal with.

I found Harbingers of Destruction and Heavy Destroyers are really the only things I have that could damage them. I had some luck with Deathmarks but they get one round of shots off before being swarmed. My barge lord has been target number one every game I played and has only made it into close combat once out of 4 games.

I have had some luck since getting the DoomScythe but one player was able to shoot it down the first turn it was out with a shot that denies cover saves so I wasn't able to take the jink save against it.

I have a unit of wraiths I am working on right now so I haven't used them yet.

This might sound like a dumb question, but are you sure you're playing the same points as him? Both of the lists you posted are 1790. That's a very unusual points level. Plus, if he's taking 2 Shooty Tyrants, a Tervigon, and 4 Shooty Carnifexes, that should come to ~1400 points by itself. It's quite possible that he might be taking a 2000 or 1850 point list (those are much more common than 1790). If not, he probably only has 2 or 3 troops choices. Kill those few scoring units and stay away from his army. All of those strength 6 guns only have an 18" range.

Also keep in mind that our guns can't even scratch your vehicles, plus the Gaunts can't hurt them in combat. If you get a Ghost Ark, stick a Lord or two in there. Drive up to the enemy while shooting, then hop out and charge (open-topped).

Siphen wrote:
Wraiths are actually very good at dealing with Tyranid Monstrous Creatures. Even a Trygon or Carnifex will be lucky to kill one per turn. They wound all of our creatures on a 4+ (strength 6) and the rends will knock off a few wounds per turn.

You can also be very aggressive with your Lords. A MSS Lord should feel comfortable charging a Carnifex (who has ~84% chance to fail the test). Even if one of our MC makes it to you, just challenge it. We can't refuse and you stand a good chance of winning, or at least not losing much of your squad.

Oddly enough, your own monstrous creatures, specifically Canoptek Spyders can fight most of our monstrous creatures point-for-point. 3 Spyders for a mere 150 points will easily fight our more expensive Carnifex or Trygon.

Lastly, massed and focused fire kills everything. Nearly every unit in your army (the warriors, the immortals, the annihilation barges, etc) should knock at least a wound off a MC when it shoots. You have 24" range guns and we have to assault...back up while shooting and you should be able to put down 1-2 monstrous creatures before we even reach you.

Wraiths +1

A few things.

I know you said you like the Combo of Zahndrekh and Obyron, but they really are an expensive pair, and not that points efficient. You should really consider at least dropping one of them. In my opinion, Zahndrekh doesn't bring enough to the table to justify his points cost, and while Obyron got better with some of the 6th edition rules, I've tended to continue to prefer the Vanilla HQ choices.

A Kitted out Destroyer lord, with some Wraiths should be able to handle Any TMC (except the Swarmlord) before it gets a chance to strike, thanks to whip coils, and the preferred enemy being added to the squad. MSS is a great bonus to that as well. Even if it survives, it has a pretty good chance to be shackled, and likely won't be able to do much damage to the squad.

Annihilation Barges are great, they put about one unsaved wound per volley into TMCs, which isn't too shabby.

Destroyers are also an option, a squad with 2 Heavys should put about 3 wounds a turn on TMCs.

Lords with a WS and MSS can usually make pretty quick work of TMCS, but chances are they would get swarmed by bubblewrap, before they got a chance to do anything.

If he's playing shooty, use that to your advantage. Necrons excel at shooting that outranges most Tyranid Weapons.

Wraiths are good at killing just about anything these days.

Lords are an awesome way to take out MCs since our toughness normally puts us above instant death. And if you managed to shave it down you a labyrinth or something to finish it off.

Shooty Nids is the new popular way to play them ... they get powerful guns that are all assault. And if you do assault them they are still mostly Monsterous creatures.

Their termagons or w/e with the poisoned weapons are deadly when they fire 60+ poisoned shots at you...

And then throw in a unit like the yarmoth gene stealers to counter anything left.

may not be a popular, all comers choice for Necrons due to their cost, but a C'tan should beat the crap out of TMC's if you can get it into them. Problems are that its expensive, and also slow.

Wraiths murder almost anything in the game

D-Lords with MSS + wraiths do murder anything in the game.

Lords are an awesome way to take out MCs since our toughness normally puts us above instant death. And if you managed to shave it down you a labyrinth or something to finish it off.

Tlabs are a little expensive for a one shot item, but can be effective. I personally think we have better ways to put the points to use.

Their termagons or w/e with the poisoned weapons are deadly when they fire 60+ poisoned shots at you...

Termagaunts don't have a ranged poisoned shot. The Toxin Sac upgrade only effects close combat attacks. In addition, Fleshborers are only a 12' range with one shot, and devourers, are a very expensive upgrade on Termagaunts.

And then throw in a unit like the yarmoth gene stealers to counter anything left.

Proper positioning, and Overwatch can help somewhat Mitigate the threat of Ymgarl Stealers. However, they will likely kill the unit the manage to get into CC with. After that, they should be easily dealt with.

This may be a crazy idea, but have you considered using c'tan with enthropic strike? They should be able to solo most MCs, and if they do die, then the MC will be left defenseless due to ES, meaning that you should be able to down it (relatively) easily with small arms.

I think Necrons need another buff, maybe auto wound MC on a 6...

Kevlar wrote:
I think Necrons need another buff, maybe auto wound MC on a 6...

Heh heh heh...just like the old days!

ruinarion wrote:Was he using any of the flying monstrous creatures? I am still a beginner but a few people where I have been playing have been using the Nids with FMCs and using Biomancy on the monstrous creatures. If they get iron arm flying monstrous creatures with toughness 9 just sucks to deal with. Even toughness 9 monstrous creatures are tough to deal with.

I found Harbingers of Destruction and Heavy Destroyers are really the only things I have that could damage them. I had some luck with Deathmarks but they get one round of shots off before being swarmed. My barge lord has been target number one every game I played and has only made it into close combat once out of 4 games.

I have had some luck since getting the DoomScythe but one player was able to shoot it down the first turn it was out with a shot that denies cover saves so I wasn't able to take the jink save against it.

I have a unit of wraiths I am working on right now so I haven't used them yet.

Yeah, there was a flying hive tyrant. While it didn't have iron arm, it had endurance, and that sucked too. After the 2 fexxes got killed, I focused on that tyrant. It did not give a damn, and took no wounds.

Siphen wrote:This might sound like a dumb question, but are you sure you're playing the same points as him? Both of the lists you posted are 1790. That's a very unusual points level. Plus, if he's taking 2 Shooty Tyrants, a Tervigon, and 4 Shooty Carnifexes, that should come to ~1400 points by itself. It's quite possible that he might be taking a 2000 or 1850 point list (those are much more common than 1790). If not, he probably only has 2 or 3 troops choices. Kill those few scoring units and stay away from his army. All of those strength 6 guns only have an 18" range.

Also keep in mind that our guns can't even scratch your vehicles, plus the Gaunts can't hurt them in combat. If you get a Ghost Ark, stick a Lord or two in there. Drive up to the enemy while shooting, then hop out and charge (open-topped).

Yeah, same point value. Aside from what's listed, he had one squad of gaunts. I did 1790 cause I didn't really have anywhere to spend 10 points. That tervigon got lucky and got 3 rounds of spawning before rolling doubles.

DarthSpader wrote:if you want to go with a royal court DS, then take as many warscythes and mindshckles as you can. in fact do that anyway. i would leave the SC at home.mainly because:

warscythes punch past anything the nids can throw at you. str 7 wounds at worst on 3+ vrs the big baddies, and simply mulches anything less. plus its AP 1 so no armor saves and nids lack invuns. take as many of these as you can get, even go as far as to attach a court lord and overlord to a unit of lychgaurd.

mindshackles also kick serious butt vrs nids. take the heavy hitters out of the fight with them, via challanges or just smart placment on your charge/pile in moves, and youll have no issues. a unit ive used before with much sucsess:
overlord, mss, WS, PS, = 160 5x lords w/ warscythe mss (60 ea) = 460 for the unit. dont really need any other HQ, except maybe a CCB overlord, but with no models, wouldnt bother. a duplicate overlord on foot joining this unit MAYBE if you have the pts. either way, you 6 warscythes, and 6 MSS. so you get 6 shots at just eliminating a model from the fight. the phase shifter on your lord is there for absoarbing heavy hits. maybe also consider a res orb on one of the lords or your overlord for 4+ RP.

with that said you need more dakka. i find 5 immortals with tesla to be simply awsome. take 4-5 of these guys on foot or in nightscythes in you have the models. (you dont so foot works fine) and a unit of 15 warriors. combhine that with the OL kit above and you should have easy time. your troops focus fire on the little ones, maybe snipe some tervigons if they are around, but focus on and bring down his swarm (to prevent them swarming your lords and negating MSS) then use that lord unit to smash down his MC a list with your models and some light proxy conversions would be:

- overlord, mss, ws, phase shifter, orb = 200
- court: 2 lord, ws, mss =120, 1 with resorb (40) = 160


5 immortals w/ tesla =85
5 immortals w/ tesla =85
5 immortals w/ tesla =85
5 immortals w/ tesla =85
15 warriors = 195

5 lychgaurd, ws, = 200
5 wraiths, whipcoils = 225

annihlation barge = 90
annihlation barge = 90


= 1500 on the nose.

the overlord and a court lord join the lychgaurd. the other court lord with resorb joins the warriors, wich become your "centerfield anchor" - they find cover or an objective mid table area, or mid deployment zone and just camp. if you can get the model and go past 1500 pts, a ghost arc is the next unit. this unit just WILL. NOT. DIE.
the immortals are your rovers. split them up into 4 squads, to give more mobility and firing options. try to keep them together, and focus fire on units till they die. target his gaunts or warriors, etc. annihlation barges support them, and go after tervigons as primary (spitting out more gaunts is annoying) or hive gaurd. but since you dont really have vehicles out, hivegaurd are less of a worry. the wraiths are your distraction unit. run them up and bait a MC to go after them, or his genestealers whatever. the wraiths will hold them for a few turns or even win the fight. and can do it vrs almost anything. the lychgaurd squad goes MC hunting. move, run, and close the gap before charging. (or get charged - it dosent matter) lead with the lords or have the lords in front facing the MC, so when it charges it has to btb them, then let MSS do its thing. if it dosent kill itself, finish him off with a ton of WS attacks.

looking at your model list, you would need to get ahold of some wraiths and lychgaurd, but they are very worthwhile boxes and will absloulty bring you much better results vrs not only nids, but anything.

Any advice on getting those lychguard into CC without having a bunch of holes punched in em? I like your idea, mostly because I have most of the models to run it

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Best way is to night scythe them in. Other then that advance up, use cover and support with wraiths and immortals.

One other thing.... If no hive guard, field as many Vehicles with quantum shielding as possible. They laugh at nid shooting.