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 cuda1179 wrote:
And yet, it it wren't for the FAQ, a line/are of effect weapon is NOT banned from hitting a flier as long as it has the skyfire rule.

What part of skyfire allows you to fire a non-ballistic skill weapon at a flyer?

 matphat wrote:
I love that people are so damn excited to see Nob Bikers, which were not really that big of a deal anyway, get nerfed in to the "Not worth the points" category AGAIN, while standard army builds from competitive armies still can do more killing and survive longer at less points and no one seems to give a damn.

I understand that the LOS rules were stupid and a huge PITA as they were pre FAQ 1.1, but I am totally lost as to why it's such a big reason to celebrate when a mediocre army gets one of it's few hard hitters nerfed into the ground.

QFT. Orks just went from having 1 very competitive build to...none?

 Nox wrote:

 Lt.Soundwave wrote:
I was hoping the my skyray might actually see some use : /

The really sad thing is, according to the fluff, the Skyray is the Tau's anti-air tank.

Really? Ouch. Its not as though giving it skyfire would have tipped the balance either.
I mean, supposedly CSM and DA will get skyfire soon, why not tau?
Hell, why not everyone?

Lots of good stuff here.
LOVING that Chaos marine demon prince are flying MC. LOVE. Luv.

Whip Coils / Lash Whips got nerfed, and the effect only applies at the start of the fight sub phase instead of whenever someone touches base contact.

Yay.

And at the same time they made them much less complicated/confusing.

 pretre wrote:

 cuda1179 wrote:
And yet, it it wren't for the FAQ, a line/are of effect weapon is NOT banned from hitting a flier as long as it has the skyfire rule.

What part of skyfire allows you to fire a non-ballistic skill weapon at a flyer?

To hit a flier you must use a Snapshot, unless the model has Skyfire

Models that don't roll to hit can not snapshot. Okay, so that leaves skyfire.

Page 81 states: Shots resolved at a Zooming flier can only be resolved as Snap Shots (unless the model has the Skyfire Special rule)

Termpates, Blasts, and Large Blasts can not hit fliers (a line weapon like a Death ray is none of these)

So, a Dathray meets all the criteria for hitting a flier if it uses skyfire, excpet the FAQ changed it.

Overall, these FAQs are of very good quality. Mephiston got fixed to Mastery 3, things got clarified, Look Out, Sir! Got less silly.

Unfortunate for Orks, now they can't even look out, sir! the squad leaders.

Crazyterran wrote:
Overall, these FAQs are of very good quality. Mephiston got fixed to Mastery 3, things got clarified, Look Out, Sir! Got less silly.

Unfortunate for Orks, now they can't even look out, sir! the squad leaders.

Squad leaders still can - it's only the unit of Nobs that can't LOS!.
Read the Designer's Note.

 cuda1179 wrote:
Termpates, Blasts, and Large Blasts can not hit fliers (a line weapon like a Death ray is none of these)

Except that it is effectively a template weapon, just a long thin template. It is clear from the faq answers that they have intended all of the things that I (not necessarily the rules) consider to be 'weird templates' to not hit flying targets.

I'm not going to go back and forth on pre-faq, since neither of us is going to budge. At least they faq'd it clearly now.

 cuda1179 wrote:

 pretre wrote:

 cuda1179 wrote:
And yet, it it wren't for the FAQ, a line/are of effect weapon is NOT banned from hitting a flier as long as it has the skyfire rule.

What part of skyfire allows you to fire a non-ballistic skill weapon at a flyer?

To hit a flier you must use a Snapshot, unless the model has Skyfire

Models that don't roll to hit can not snapshot. Okay, so that leaves skyfire.

Page 81 states: Shots resolved at a Zooming flier can only be resolved as Snap Shots (unless the model has the Skyfire Special rule)

Termpates, Blasts, and Large Blasts can not hit fliers (a line weapon like a Death ray is none of these)

So, a Dathray meets all the criteria for hitting a flier if it uses skyfire, excpet the FAQ changed it.

GW uses FAQs as erratas to changes rules as they see fit and have done so for years. It's nothing new, an d people just need accept it and move on.

rigeld2 wrote:

Crazyterran wrote:
Overall, these FAQs are of very good quality. Mephiston got fixed to Mastery 3, things got clarified, Look Out, Sir! Got less silly.

Unfortunate for Orks, now they can't even look out, sir! the squad leaders.

Squad leaders still can - it's only the unit of Nobs that can't LOS!.
Read the Designer's Note.

Woops, good catch.

Just skimmed it, my bad.

Haven't "draw a line" weapons always been considered template weapons? And haven't templates been unable to hit fliers, since, like forever?

I dont' doubt that they used to be able to hit fliers, it's just not as inconsistent as people seem to think.

Basically, you need to roll to hit any flier. OTOH, anything that rolls to hit a flier has consequences (see marker lights and FMCs)

It's rare sign of restraint in the sixth edition, which seems to value rules for rules sake.

 Polonius wrote:
Haven't "draw a line" weapons always been considered template weapons?

Not rules-wise.

 DMajiko wrote:
Am I the only one that noticed that Bikes got Very Bulky (Count as 3 units) and therefore can now mount up into transports?

Bulky and Very Bulky don't grant the ability to ride in transports.

Transports by default can only carry Infantry. You need a special rule to allow any other type of unit to embark. All that Bulky and Very Bulky do is define how many spots the unit takes up if it is allowed in a transport.

Okay, we're done with the "Death Ray could [not] hit flyers pre-FAQ" question. It's moot, and distracting. Take it to YMDC if you really want to continue arguing about it.

I'm still not seeing a change for Njals storm and its damage effects on flyers. Anyone?

GW Employee1: "Let's give necrons Flyers"

GW Exployee2: "GREAT! So they can defend themselves from other flyers?"

Gw Exployee1: "Hmmmm...you're right give them weapons that only penetrate on 6 and a death ray for anything that's in the floor"

GW Employee 2: "Brilliant"

Only Snap Shots can hit Zooming Flyers and Gliding Flying Monstrous Creatures

This is certainly a typo. As written, Flying Monstrous Creatures can only be hit by snap shots when both Swooping and Gliding.

 Polonius wrote:
Haven't "draw a line" weapons always been considered template weapons? And haven't templates been unable to hit fliers, since, like forever?

I dont' doubt that they used to be able to hit fliers, it's just not as inconsistent as people seem to think.

Basically, you need to roll to hit any flier. OTOH, anything that rolls to hit a flier has consequences (see marker lights and FMCs)

It's rare sign of restraint in the sixth edition, which seems to value rules for rules sake.

Draw a line weapons have been considered "template" weapons in previous editions. Not sure how long its been for 40k. Fantasy didn't define them as such for an edition or two, but went back to the definition for 8th. This FAQ puts it back in for 40k. Again it was a common sense thing. Skyfire only allows you to hit with normal ballistic skill, it does not allow you to hit with weapons that don't use ballistic skill.

Has anyone mentioned all the AP2 added to CSM with daemon weapons? That strike at initiative?

Range S AP Type
- +1 2 Melee, Daemon
Weapon,Two-handed

Q: When a model makes a Vector Strike or Hammer of Wrath , do
these attacks benefit from any special rules (such as Furious Charge,
Poisoned or Rending), or any weapons or other wargear it is
equipped with? (p37/43)
A: No.

Q: Do Dark Eldar allies count as Eldar for the Farseer psychic
powers Fortune and Guide? (p28)
A: No.

Q: Can you use a Warlock's Destructor power when resolving
Overwatch? (p28)
A: No.

Q: Can a unit with both the and special rules deploy
as Infiltrators and then make a Scout redeployment before the game
begins? (p38)
A: Yes.

Q: The rulebook states "A unit that makes a Scout redeployment
cannot charge in the first turn." Does this mean that if your
opponent has the first turn and you go second, your Scouting unit
can charge? (p41)
A: Yes.

Q: Do models classified as unique count as ? (p63)
A: Yes, but not in the case of vehicles (with the exception of
Bjorn the Fell-handed).

SO Chronus and Pask are not Characters.


Just some tidbits I found interesting.

Well these were certainly an improvement over the first ones. There will still be some bitching but I think this was a good showing overall that fixed a lot of outright WTF things. And even if you think it makes the units useless, I think that from an outright playability standpoint the removal of large all-character units whole cloth was a good one. It slowed the game down and circumvented the wound allocation system too much and was obviously (now that they have FAQ'd it and delivered designer's notes on it) not the intended way the rule worked. Now it is just IC's and squad leaders and I think this will stop a lot of the bitching about the otherwise good wound allocation system. Too bad barrage sniping is still possible, but at least it isn't as slowing as all-character units were.

And I'm personally glad they shored up the overflow wounds loophole for challenges. It just felt wrong to me.

Also glad to see the Necron flyer nerf.

Now just to wait for the first 6E codex to see if things continue to show promise.

SeptimusPryme wrote:
Has anyone mentioned all the AP2 added to CSM with daemon weapons? That strike at initiative?

Range S AP Type
- +1 2 Melee, Daemon
Weapon,Two-handed

Those are pretty sweet, but probably overshadowed with princes getting FMC and skyfire. Even less reason to take a lord even with a better daemon weapon. The princes are AP2 as well and can shoot the crap out of fliers now with their psychic powers.

They didn't. An archon joining a Codex: Eldar Harlequin unit with Eldrad is still a Codex: Eldar unit and can be fortuned.

My bad, I was to optimistic after reading things like nobz not being characters etc to think common sense would remove the ridicule of immortal 2++/++ archon bombs.

Still bummed about Paladins no longer being characters, though I love the boost sanguinary guard got.

 Therion wrote:
It's just incredible that it took GW a couple months to make a few minor adjustments to the FAQs and they still managed to get some of them completely wrong while also failing to answer many crucial questions that needed clarification. They really seem to have a bunch of nutless monkeys running games design. They do only a little work and even that they do poorly.

Nope.

You're just quoting the FAQ which is a source of new rules with new strange exceptions. The person you were responding to was asking his question based on the rules of Warhammer 40K as they exist in the rulebook.

What? They've done two updates in like two months? GW are on the ball these days.

 pretre wrote:

 cuda1179 wrote:
Termpates, Blasts, and Large Blasts can not hit fliers (a line weapon like a Death ray is none of these)

Except that it is effectively a template weapon, just a long thin template. It is clear from the faq answers that they have intended all of the things that I (not necessarily the rules) consider to be 'weird templates' to not hit flying targets.

I'm not going to go back and forth on pre-faq, since neither of us is going to budge. At least they faq'd it clearly now.

If you consider it a Template weapon, does that mean you would allow it to ignore cover?

 Happygrunt wrote:

 pretre wrote:
Q: Can you deploy the Aegis Defence Line sections in two or more
groups of two or more sections apiece (this way, they will still be in
base contact with at least one other section)? (p114)
A: No – the Aegis defence line sections must be deployed in
an unbroken chain, though they can be connected end-toend
such as in the example shown on page 114.

Wow, didn't see that coming...

It is called "Aegis defense line" not Aegis defense lines".




Automatically Appended Next Post:

Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:
Still bummed about Paladins no longer being characters

Boo hoo...

Kevlar wrote:

 Polonius wrote:
Haven't "draw a line" weapons always been considered template weapons? And haven't templates been unable to hit fliers, since, like forever?

I dont' doubt that they used to be able to hit fliers, it's just not as inconsistent as people seem to think.

Basically, you need to roll to hit any flier. OTOH, anything that rolls to hit a flier has consequences (see marker lights and FMCs)

It's rare sign of restraint in the sixth edition, which seems to value rules for rules sake.

Draw a line weapons have been considered "template" weapons in previous editions. Not sure how long its been for 40k. Fantasy didn't define them as such for an edition or two, but went back to the definition for 8th. This FAQ puts it back in for 40k. Again it was a common sense thing. Skyfire only allows you to hit with normal ballistic skill, it does not allow you to hit with weapons that don't use ballistic skill.

As I have all ready quoted in the rules, Skyfire will help with any non template, non blast, non large-blast weapon. Check Page 81. If there were a weapon (hypothetically) that always hit on a 2+, they skyfire would allow it to hit a flier on a 2+ with no regard for balistic skill.