CSM Roundup

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**VermGho5t**

Has anyone heard or read the rules for vanilla csm troops?

**Sidstyler**

Harriticus wrote:
I plan on doing the following with my Heldrake:

lol, I like it.

**Vaktathi**

CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Vaktathi wrote:
His Master's Voice wrote:
Slave wrote:
Are you certain of this? I mean, have you read this with your own eyes? It would be incredibly stupid if a lowly lord unlocks troops, but a beastly exalted prince can not.

There has to be a reason to take Lords over DPs.
There's always cost. If a typical DP is 200+pts, and a Lord is 140-160, that's usually enough right there.

Is it confirmed if you can take DPs as part of the FOC?
I would think that you can't, since any character can now potentially become one.

I thought so but I could be wrong. There's only a very small chance for other characters to become DP's so otherwise they wouldn't have much use for kits.

**aka_mythos**

Slave wrote:
bubber wrote:
Re Hellbrute replacing dreads - I hope & expect that my opponents accept me using my chaos FW dreads rather than having to throw them away.

Re the big deamon engines - I found a spare Jug head today - wonder if it's big enough??

This won't even be a question. A dreadnaught is just a hellbrute, and the old kit is just a different style. Just like when Eldar switched from lasgun to shuriken catapult on guardians.

They where just weird looking catapults.

A better example is when they stopped calling the Eldar Wraithlord the Eldar Dreadnought. Given the amount of "count as" that goes around these days anyone giving you trouble is intentionally being dumbass by difficult and messing with you. The Hellbrute is synonymous with Chaos Dreadnought.

**Quintinus**

aka_mythos wrote:
Slave wrote:
bubber wrote:
Re Hellbrute replacing dreads - I hope & expect that my opponents accept me using my chaos FW dreads rather than having to throw them away.

Re the big deamon engines - I found a spare Jug head today - wonder if it's big enough??

This won't even be a question. A dreadnaught is just a hellbrute, and the old kit is just a different style. Just like when Eldar switched from lasgun to shuriken catapult on guardians.

They where just weird looking catapults.
A better example is when they stopped calling the Eldar Wraithlord the Eldar Dreadnought. Given the amount of "count as" that goes around these days anyone giving you trouble is intentionally being dumbass by difficult and messing with you. The Hellbrute is synonymous with Chaos Dreadnought.

In the Helbrute's fluff it notes that some versions are more crazed/mutated than others. So you can have the Helbrute from Dark Vengeance or the old 2nd edition one, it doesn't matter. They're all the same in the end.

**Starfarer**

Slave wrote:

Starfarer wrote:
They are HQ, but don't count towards making cult units troops if marked, like Lords do. Other than that they will be similar in cost to the Codex Daemons.

Are you certain of this? I mean, have you read this with your own eyes? It would be incredibly stupid if a lowly lord unlocks troops, but a beastly exalted prince can not.

I'm not certain, no, as I haven't read it with my own eyes, but it comes from the same rumor sources that predicted everything we've seen (pre)released this week.

Jayden63 wrote:

Yeah, that greatly depletes an cult armies ability to be diverse. If you have to take a lord to get troop cult marines and then use the last HQ option to take a DP. Doesn't leave any room for sorcerers, warpsmiths, or anything else for that matter.

Well, there has to be a drawback somewhere. If any other army could take Elites as troops with no drawback, it would be pretty unbalanced. Phil Kelly has a tendency to allow themed build is his codexes, but there is a drawback in doing so.

**Sersi**

Wait...only the Lord that unlocks marked units? I thought the rumor was that you had to take a marked HQ, and that it couldn't be a Daemon Prince. If that true that makes it even more restrictive. If you want to take a allied Detachment of CSM led by a DP your stuck with Cultists or stock Chaos Marines. Sure they can still be marked, but they're still not cult units.

**Slave**

CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Vaktathi wrote:
His Master's Voice wrote:
Slave wrote:
Are you certain of this? I mean, have you read this with your own eyes? It would be incredibly stupid if a lowly lord unlocks troops, but a beastly exalted prince can not.

There has to be a reason to take Lords over DPs.
There's always cost. If a typical DP is 200+pts, and a Lord is 140-160, that's usually enough right there.

Is it confirmed if you can take DPs as part of the FOC?
I would think that you can't, since any character can now potentially become one.

There is no way they will take the ability to take a prince. There are several kits for it, many of us have one, no way we can't use it.

**Slayer le boucher**

is it true that Dp lost their power armor save?...

The can still buy it has an option right?,right?...

Well apart of that i'm curious to see Kharne's and Abby's profils....

**Necrosis**

I wonder how expensive noise marines are and how much their weapons are. Cause now that their weapons ignore cover, I see them being used more often.

**Slave**

after hearing that my Demon Prince won't unlock my massive noise marine force and marines losing the close combat weapon, the wind just got let out of my sails...

Looks like My army goes back on the shelf.

**hivetyrant765**

anyone know the rules and options for warpsmiths? i know about the repair/curse rule, but thats about all. what sort of upgrades can they take? do they get access to daemon weapons by any chance? would be awesome to take one as the HQ choice for an iron warriors army with the rumored daemon weapon maul/hammer.

**Starfarer**

Sersi wrote:
Wait...only the Lord that unlocks marked units? I thought the rumor was that you had to take a marked HQ, and that it couldn't be a Daemon Prince. If that true that makes it even more restrictive. If you want to take a allied Detachment of CSM led by a DP your stuck with Cultists or stock Chaos Marines. Sure they can still be marked, but they're still not cult units.

That's just what the rumors say. After looking over the rumors again, there is another line that says HQ with a mark unlocks cult units as troops, so I guess we'll have to wait and see.

Slave wrote:
after hearing that my Demon Prince won't unlock my massive noise marine force and marines losing the close combat weapon, the wind just got let out of my sails...

Looks like My army goes back on the shelf.

I would wait until we actually know the rules for sure before writing off your army., but would it really be the end of the world to take a Lord and DP to field your cult force?

Also, CSMs DID NOT lose their CCWs. Nowhere has that been stated as far as I've seen, and for further confirmation, they are listed as having CCWs in the battle report in White Dwarf, so that misinformation can be confirmed as false.

**BDJV**

VermGho5t wrote:
Has anyone heard or read the rules for vanilla csm troops?

These are the latest rumors that were posted.

Chaos Space Marine
70 for 5, 14 for each additional marine.
Aspiring Champion is a 10 point upgrade.
Come with bolter/bp/ccw
For every 5 models in the squad you get a special weapon. If the squad is 10 or more, one model can exchange a flamer(5 pts) for a Heavy Bolter, meltagun(10 points) for an Autocannon or Missile Launcher or a plasmagun(15 points) for a Lascannon.
Marks range from 10-50 points, Icons range from 10-40 points.

**mauzer**

Read the white dwarf at lgs, looks like the dragon gets some flame weapon and is 170 pts

**Harriticus**

The limited edition Codex already sold out. 1,000 pre-orders in 24 hours.

**Sasori**

CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Vaktathi wrote:
His Master's Voice wrote:
Slave wrote:
Are you certain of this? I mean, have you read this with your own eyes? It would be incredibly stupid if a lowly lord unlocks troops, but a beastly exalted prince can not.

There has to be a reason to take Lords over DPs.
There's always cost. If a typical DP is 200+pts, and a Lord is 140-160, that's usually enough right there.

Is it confirmed if you can take DPs as part of the FOC?
I would think that you can't, since any character can now potentially become one.

It's still available under HQ on the GW website.

**Slave**

A poster scanned a picture from the Spanish white dwarf. Could have been a bad translation, but no close combat weapon.

**schadenfreude**

Rumor has it deamon princes will continue to be in the CSM dex, they will be more powerful, and upgrades especially flight will be more in line with the deamon dex making them expensive.

It's probably going to be lords and named characters that unlock cult units as troops. After ascending to being a deamon prince they can end up spending a lot of time in the warp and less time managing their former legion on a day to day basis. My bet is Kharne, Typhis, Arihman, Lucius, and regular lords will be the only units that unlock cult units as troops. I think Abby will also be excluded if they allow him to unlock chosen as troops.

**Sersi**

Necrosis wrote:
I wonder how expensive noise marines are and how much their weapons are. Cause now that their weapons ignore cover, I see them being used more often.

Basic Noise Marine: 16 pts

Sonic Blaster: +5 pts
Blastmaster: +25 pts
Doom Siren: +15 pts

Its a pretty big points drop. I now have 160 saved points to play now.

**gigasnail**

@ sersi where are you getting the NM costs from? i miss an update? nothing on the first page.

**Necrosis**

Sersi wrote:
Necrosis wrote:
I wonder how expensive noise marines are and how much their weapons are. Cause now that their weapons ignore cover, I see them being used more often.

Basic Noise Marine: 16 pts

Sonic Blaster: +5 pts
Blastmaster: +25 pts
Doom Siren: +15 pts

Its a pretty big points drop. I now have 160 saved points to play now.

If this is true, I'm going to be so happy.

**Lou_Cypher**

Matt.Kingsley wrote:
Yes, it is.

One of they guys at my GW store yesterday said that if he did make a csm army (he is seriously considering it, but moneez) he'd go alpha legion, manage to find 2 more heldrake heads and make a hydradrake

Makes me think of Mecha-Ghidorah.

Ah, that's it. My plans are to ally in a three-headed Helldrake with a Fateweaver FmC list. It may not be getting re-rolls, but Chaosy things with more than one head would be nice.

**Sersi**

gigasnail wrote:
@ sersi where are you getting the NM costs from? i miss an update? nothing on the first page.

Those were from Blood of Kittens rumors. But I see no reason to doubt them they've been pretty solid on everything else.

**Rainbow Dash**

hey, do the emperors children get combat drugs back?

**Sersi**

Necrosis wrote:
Sersi wrote:
Necrosis wrote:
I wonder how expensive noise marines are and how much their weapons are. Cause now that their weapons ignore cover, I see them being used more often.

Basic Noise Marine: 16 pts

Sonic Blaster: +5 pts
Blastmaster: +25 pts
Doom Siren: +15 pts

Its a pretty big points drop. I now have 160 saved points to play now.

If this is true, I'm going to be so happy.

I know. I already was planning to use a Sorcerer anyway. But the Slaanesh psy-powers are really nice. Even the Primaris power is useful. Here's hoping that a marked Sorcerer can un-lock noise marines, so I can take one along with a Daemon Prince. Say, when you unlock cults as troops, can they still be taken as elites too?

**Necrosis**

That would be to confusing. You would have to keep track which one is a troop choice and which one is an elite choice. I'm just going to take a chaos lord with a daemon weapon, maybe with a squad of terminator depends on marks and icons.

**Quintinus**

BDJV wrote:
VermGho5t wrote:
Has anyone heard or read the rules for vanilla csm troops?

These are the latest rumors that were posted.

Chaos Space Marine
70 for 5, 14 for each additional marine.
Aspiring Champion is a 10 point upgrade.
Come with bolter/bp/ccw
For every 5 models in the squad you get a special weapon. If the squad is 10 or more, one model can exchange a flamer(5 pts) for a Heavy Bolter, meltagun(10 points) for an Autocannon or Missile Launcher or a plasmagun(15 points) for a Lascannon.
Marks range from 10-50 points, Icons range from 10-40 points.

That's not terrible, but the loss of 1 LD point wasn't worth only losing 1 point for a model. If Chaos Marines end up being 13 points I'd be a lot happier, or if it was 70 for Aspiring Champion+4 other Marines and then add 15 additional for 13 points per.

However, if Cultists are still 40 for the initial Champion+9 cultists, and then add 20 more for 3 points per cultist (as rumored), I seriously doubt that I'm even going to be using very many Chaos Marines at all!

**Sersi**

Rainbow Dash wrote:
hey, do the emperors children get combat drugs back?

I wouldn't think so. The Hesterical Frenzy psy-power is pretty much the same thing, but better. Noe the whole unit gets the bonuses rather than just champions; and you don't run the risk of getting killed.

Combat Drugs:

re-roll when charging through difficult terrain.
+1 Weapon Skill
+1 Strength
ignore the first unsaved wound.
+1 Attacks

Heretical Frenzy:

+1 Initiative
+1 Strength
+1 Attack

Sure you don't get to choose the ability anymore but their all useful. Although I rather have +1 WS rather that +1 Initiative. Ignoring the first saved wound is replace by the Icon's FNP. It should be really good on cultists.

**Sharkvictim**

Rainbow Dash wrote:
schadenfreude wrote:
Sharkvictim wrote:
I've come to grips with the supposed point value of the Plague Marines, but I really need to see the army list entry before I jump ship. I need to know if they still have FnP, what their weapon options are, and specifically what it will take to make them troops. As it stands now ALL of my troops are PMs. It looks like oblits are still viable as a heavy choice.
What happened to Khorne and Tzeentch being opposed to each other?

It as always Slaneesh that Khorne opposed. Sure sorcerers are despised by Khorne, but he hates all sorceres be they Nurgle, Slaneesh, Tzeentch, non chaos exc. What it really comes down to is Slaneesh followers tend to care more about their hedonism than mastering their martial abilities, and Khorne can't stand that.

Don't worry about a PM army. GW trends from previous codexes that GW seems to be reverting to indicate a Nurgle HQ would turn PM into troops. It's also really doubtful they would mess with the FNP of PM. The slaneesh FNP is for an icon going on already marked troops. Nurgle didn't get the FNP icon because PM already have FNP, so why would PM need it? Sure havoks and nurgle bikers could use it, but maybe GW didn't want T6 FNP bikers.

khorne's just jealous of their boobs

and wieners... and hoohahs...