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From what I can see on the White Dwarf pg. 23, Chosen are 90 points for a Squad of Five and some other thing I can't make out. Lots of options though.

Possessed are 130 Points for Five and some more options.

Chaos Terminators are 95 for 3 plus another thing I can't see clearly.

From the Army list on pg. 63, 20 cultists with 2 flamers are 100 points?

Eh.... seems reasonable.

I emailed Tastytaste asking for him to post some stuff about Ahriman. Maybe that one picture on his site is because of my email! Woo.

I tried to extract what info I could from the Elites entries listed in WD, but iIt's really tough to make out, even under magnification, but I was able to see that Possessed have Fleet, and 2 other special rules I could not make out. They also have a Possessed Champion, so it looks like that means he gets a roll on the Boon chart. Possessed, Terminators and Chosen can take marks and Icons. Mutilators can only take Marks. Couldn't make out anything else.

Are mutilators T5?

They are T4 with 2 wounds and the daemon special rules, among other rules.

 Necrosis wrote:
They are T4 with 2 wounds and the daemon special rules, among other rules.

Do they have Rampage?

 Necrosis wrote:

 Sersi wrote:

 Necrosis wrote:
I wonder how expensive noise marines are and how much their weapons are. Cause now that their weapons ignore cover, I see them being used more often.

Basic Noise Marine: 16 pts

Sonic Blaster: +5 pts
Blastmaster: +25 pts
Doom Siren: +15 pts

Its a pretty big points drop. I now have 160 saved points to play now.

If this is true, I'm going to be so happy.

Really? Its 21 pts for a NM with a sonic blaster, which is less worth than in the 5th ed duento the new rapid firing rule.

 wuestenfux wrote:
Really? Its 21 pts for a NM with a sonic blaster, which is less worth than in the 5th ed duento the new rapid firing rule.

You mean the fact that everybody else can move and shoot to maximum range now... or the fact that Noise Marine can't?

 lord_blackfang wrote:

 wuestenfux wrote:
Really? Its 21 pts for a NM with a sonic blaster, which is less worth than in the 5th ed duento the new rapid firing rule.

You mean the fact that everybody else can move and shoot to maximum range now... or the fact that Noise Marine can't?

Yes I guess that's what he means. With that fact 21 are not that good. What we probably going to see is squads of 5 with blastmaster and doom siren and nothing more. Inside rhinos. With the new blastmaster you can take out low armor vehicles and MEQ alike and doom siren is a "don't come close" weapon through the fire point.
My opinion is that we will go for quantity over quality in this dex. Mark my words!

 avedominusnox wrote:

 lord_blackfang wrote:

 wuestenfux wrote:
Really? Its 21 pts for a NM with a sonic blaster, which is less worth than in the 5th ed duento the new rapid firing rule.

You mean the fact that everybody else can move and shoot to maximum range now... or the fact that Noise Marine can't?

Yes I guess that's what he means. With that fact 21 are not that good. What we probably going to see is squads of 5 with blastmaster and doom siren and nothing more. Inside rhinos. With the new blastmaster you can take out low armor vehicles and MEQ alike and doom siren is a "don't come close" weapon through the fire point.
My opinion is that we will go for quantity over quality in this dex. Mark my words!

Makes thows squads of 6, and you just described my current CSM army in a nutshell.
O____o

Not sure how I feel about salvo on sonic blasters. I really liked their versatility in the old dex, they were good at a pinch in cc [wiped out a few marine squads before actually getting into assault a few times in my day ] They also provided highly mobile [if in a rhino] mid-range fire support.

Salvo effectively ends NMs as an assault unit. It also restricts their mobility, and will probably only see use as objective campers or immobile mid-range fire support. They will be really good at both of these roles though, especially with ignore cover, and if you add in a doom siren they will get to put out a lot of overwatch shots.

Not sure where I'm going to get my assault troops from as there's no way I'm taking any Khorne in my Slaanesh army. Pretty much forces me to take Slaaneshy Daemon allies. Maybe that's what they wanted...

Lou_Cypher wrote:
From what I can see on the White Dwarf pg. 23, Chosen are 90 points for a Squad of Five and some other thing I can't make out. Lots of options though.

Possessed are 130 Points for Five and some more options.

Chaos Terminators are 95 for 3 plus another thing I can't see clearly.

From the Army list on pg. 63, 20 cultists with 2 flamers are 100 points?

Eh.... seems reasonable.

So, what would the points total be for the cultists included with the Dark Vengeance set?

 tyrannosaurus wrote:
Not sure where I'm going to get my assault troops from as there's no way I'm taking any Khorne in my Slaanesh army. Pretty much forces me to take Slaaneshy Daemon allies. Maybe that's what they wanted...

That's what they wanted from the start.
This is the way they are moving now.

 wuestenfux wrote:

 Necrosis wrote:

 Sersi wrote:

 Necrosis wrote:
I wonder how expensive noise marines are and how much their weapons are. Cause now that their weapons ignore cover, I see them being used more often.

Basic Noise Marine: 16 pts

Sonic Blaster: +5 pts
Blastmaster: +25 pts
Doom Siren: +15 pts

Its a pretty big points drop. I now have 160 saved points to play now.

If this is true, I'm going to be so happy.

Really? Its 21 pts for a NM with a sonic blaster, which is less worth than in the 5th ed duento the new rapid firing rule.

In 4th ed codex you pay 26pts for a NM with blaster. You could assault with blaster but do you really want to pay 26pts for I5 and maybe a turn or two of shooting? Now you just sit and shoot and if the opponent wants to assault you get overwatch.

I highly look forward for the costs of our fast attack choices.
As for noise marines, I have one unit fully equipped made from citadels noise weapons metal pack and I don't think I ll buy more.
I hate fine cast.

Does anyone know what the fiend with the hades autocannon is like? I.e. weapon stats and such.

Also, is the dragon going to solely be a anti flyer unit or would it be good in a game were the opponent has no flyers? All I know of the flyer is that it has a anti-flyer attack, so any other info on the flyers rules would be much appreciated

Lockark wrote:

 loki old fart wrote:

Lockark wrote:
It might just be me, but it feels like we will probably get a 2nd wave of chaos latter.

I wouldn't be surprised is after the silliness of companies like Chapter House jumping up to fill voids in a Miniature ranges, Games workshop wants to make sure their are models available for all the units from the start. Releases to replaceing existing miniatures, and add alternatives to things only available threw the starter set can be held off until a 2nd wave.

Just speculation anyway.

Maybe companies like chapterhouse, can offer a better representation, or an upgrade kit.

Uh... What? What does that have ANYTHING to do with what I said?

GW got burned from Small Companies releasing their knock offs soon after codex releases, and BEFORE GW could release their own modles.

More or less it's funny that it appears that GW has in fact taken notice of these practices.

If big companies like GW can rush poorly executed kits like these into production, Just to leave no gaps in the model range. Maybe companies like chapterhouse, can produce parts to rectify them.

Questions I would like to see answered...

1) Is there any Force org manipulation, HQ based or otherwise...

2) Slaneeshi marked Havocs(and//or even Dreadnoughts... please please please), can they equip sonic weapons again?

3) Are there any allotments made for the various types of renegade / traitor legions, ie traits, and FoC manip? Or is this just another bland single flavor CSM dex...

 Mr Morden wrote:

 Slinky wrote:

Denilsta wrote:
sorry but your wrong, it was always Khorne v Slaanesh (slaves to darkness) and Nurgle v Tzeentch (lost and the damned)....I owned both

Denilsta is correct - I too had both books and the rivalries were KvS and NvT.

I still have them and its Slaanesh hates Khorne and vice versa - same with Tzeentch and Nurgle - thats why they were devided into the two books

ROC Slaves to Darkness covers Khorne and Slaanesh and

ROC The Lost and the Damned does Tzeentch and Nurgle.

I for one am happier the more the old hatreds are represented.

I had both books as well, looks like I've always had it wrong

Thanks for clearing that up I now need to go away and wipe my memory banks

 unmercifulconker wrote:
Does anyone know what the fiend with the hades autocannon is like? I.e. weapon stats and such.

Also, is the dragon going to solely be a anti flyer unit or would it be good in a game were the opponent has no flyers? All I know of the flyer is that it has a anti-flyer attack, so any other info on the flyers rules would be much appreciated

Apparently, the Hades is 48" range, S8 AP4 Heavy 4, Pinning
the Dragon could come with a hades.

Why are people complaining that Noise Marines can't assault? They are not an assault unit, and 40k is no longer an assault game. They dropped 5pts and gained Ignore Cover and FNP. How is that not good? Just like you do with all shooty Marine units, you get them into their 24" range and start shooting. Even though they don't get to shoot at range on the move, once in range and stationary, the extra shot will resolve each lost round of shooting in 2 turns. So if you have them in range turn 2 then they actually get slightly more shooting than your normal Marine. If you get them in range turn 1, that's a lot more. And then there's the overwatch value of triple shot weapons.

The Forgefiend is WS3 BS3 S6 F12 S12 R12 I3 A2 with two Hades Autocannons for 4 Gnoblars short of a Vendetta.

The Helldrake has a Hades Autocannon and a S7 Vector Strike. Autocannon can be swapped for a S6 AP3 Torrent Template weapon. So in the default configuration it can do it all; jack of all trades master of none, and with the flamer can do anti-infantry spectacularly.

Just to answer some questions.

 Godless-Mimicry wrote:
Why are people complaining that Noise Marines can't assault? They are not an assault unit, and 40k is no longer an assault game. They dropped 5pts and gained Ignore Cover and FNP. How is that not good?

The Forgefiend is WS3 BS3 S6 F12 S12 R12 I3 A2 with two Hades Autocannons for 4 Gnoblars short of a Vendetta.

The Helldrake has a Hades Autocannon and a S7 Vector Strike. Autocannon can be swapped for a S6 AP3 Torrent Template weapon. So in the default configuration it can do it all; jack of all trades master of none, and with the flamer can do anti-infantry spectacularly.

Just to answer some questions.

We don't know yet if cult units are able to get icons. They might just come up with mark.
So no FNP for them! Until we learn something different!
P.S. yes the dragon is jack of trades. Or almost all trades.

 Vladsimpaler wrote:

 BDJV wrote:

 VermGho5t wrote:
Has anyone heard or read the rules for vanilla csm troops?

These are the latest rumors that were posted.

Chaos Space Marine
70 for 5, 14 for each additional marine.
Aspiring Champion is a 10 point upgrade.
Come with bolter/bp/ccw
For every 5 models in the squad you get a special weapon. If the squad is 10 or more, one model can exchange a flamer(5 pts) for a Heavy Bolter, meltagun(10 points) for an Autocannon or Missile Launcher or a plasmagun(15 points) for a Lascannon.
Marks range from 10-50 points, Icons range from 10-40 points.

That's not terrible, but the loss of 1 LD point wasn't worth only losing 1 point for a model. If Chaos Marines end up being 13 points I'd be a lot happier, or if it was 70 for Aspiring Champion+4 other Marines and then add 15 additional for 13 points per.

However, if Cultists are still 40 for the initial Champion+9 cultists, and then add 20 more for 3 points per cultist (as rumored), I seriously doubt that I'm even going to be using very many Chaos Marines at all!

Do you realise that loyalist marines are 16 points per dude and do not have CCW for an extra attack? 14 for a Chaos Marine is insanely cheap.

Anyone else see that they confirmed the fact that marking a Lord in a certain way gives you access to the related Cult unit as Troops? It's pretty late in the issue:

"After finally finishing the
leader of his Death Guard,
Lord Malek Vos, allowing
him to field Plague
Marines as Troops
choices, Andrew is hard at
work painting 21 more of
these festering warriors.
He’s also painting his
Heldrake with a renewed
fervour following its
success in the battle
report."

 avedominusnox wrote:
I highly look forward for the costs of our fast attack choices.
As for noise marines, I have one unit fully equipped made from citadels noise weapons metal pack and I don't think I ll buy more.
I hate fine cast.

As far as I know sonic weapons are not finecast or resin.

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440160a&prodId=prod1710128a

I don't even know if they are metal (although the old ones were). GW only recommends super glue for assembly.

 avedominusnox wrote:

 Godless-Mimicry wrote:
Why are people complaining that Noise Marines can't assault? They are not an assault unit, and 40k is no longer an assault game. They dropped 5pts and gained Ignore Cover and FNP. How is that not good?

The Forgefiend is WS3 BS3 S6 F12 S12 R12 I3 A2 with two Hades Autocannons for 4 Gnoblars short of a Vendetta.

The Helldrake has a Hades Autocannon and a S7 Vector Strike. Autocannon can be swapped for a S6 AP3 Torrent Template weapon. So in the default configuration it can do it all; jack of all trades master of none, and with the flamer can do anti-infantry spectacularly.

Just to answer some questions.

We don't know yet if cult units are able to get icons. They might just come up with mark.
So no FNP for them! Until we learn something different!
P.S. yes the dragon is jack of trades. Or almost all trades.

Current rumours say cult troops get the benefits of both mark and icon in their base form.

Fiend is just AV12? weak.
How many Hull points? it couldn't be 3 as some say, that thing is way beefier than a dreadnought!
And S7 vector strike is not that good in the world of AV12 fliers.

Any idea what Khorne Berserkers do? Any word on the axes?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Ratliker wrote:
Fiend is just AV12? weak.
How many Hull points? it couldn't be 3 as some say, that thing is way beefier than a dreadnought!

Fiends have three hull points. At least Maulerfiend has 'It Will Not Die' special rule. I have no idea what it is, but I hope it does what it says.

 Ratliker wrote:
Fiend is just AV12? weak.
How many Hull points? it couldn't be 3 as some say, that thing is way beefier than a dreadnought!
And S7 vector strike is not that good in the world of AV12 fliers.

AV12 isn't weak by any means; even S8 weapons need to tip the odds to break it on average. It has 3HP. How big it is has no reflection on how many HP it has or what its armour should be. A Dread is covered in armour whereas the Fiends seem to have a lot more fleshy areas. Note they both have a 5+ invul, and It Will Not Die as well.

As for the Vector Strike, along with the Hades it is solid, but not the bane of all flyers it was made out to be 2mths ago. 3 together will wreck some face though.

 Crimson wrote:
Any idea what Khorne Berserkers do? Any word on the axes?

Furious Charge, Rage, Counter Charge, AP4.

 Godless-Mimicry wrote:

Furious Charge, Rage, Counter Charge, AP4.

So the chainaxes give AP4? They don't strike last like power axes, I hope.