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I'm 21, I don't want children. Period.

I'm a career and personally oriented individual. I'm not even sure if there's room for a significant other in my life.

It's just not what I want. My parents have had this discussion with me, and they've no problems with it. My mother actually called me out on it, and suggested a vasectomy. It's certainly something I would consider.
Such things as "carrying on the family name" are of no consequence to me.

 sebster wrote:
I'm 33. Until about 3 years ago I didn't want kids, but figured I would want them at some point later in life. What surprised me was how quickly it changed, over the course of maybe a week I went from not even thinking about the issue to it being what I was going to do with the next five odd years of my life.


That said, people are free to want whatever they want out of life. I've got cousins who got all got married and popped out kids before they were 25, and they couldn't be happier. I've got a mate who's a year younger than me who just got a vasectomy because he just wants to screw around and travel the world the rest of his life, and I reckon he knows himself pretty well.

To each their own, find your own happiness.

Yup. Hell our son wasnt intended, very definition of an "accident" and until then, I seriously did NOT want children. At. All. But once I got over the shock of finding out we were pregnant my opinion on the whole thing flipped completely. It might of been an accident, but its been the best accident that Ive ever experienced. Although 2 is plenty enough for me. 1 son, 1 daughter, nothing else.

 Some_Call_Me_Tim? wrote:
But as this comes from a guy who has purposely made the effort to NOT get involved in a relationship until mid-college/vo-tech/whatever I end up doing for job training or higher ed., YMMV.

Worst advice in the thread possibly?

Relationships aren't something you just magically know how to do. Obviously some people make it work right away, but for many people it's a learning process filled with ugly breakups and success doesn't come until after years of practice. Putting it all off until later just means you won't pick up those skills until later, and who knows how much that will cost you. Or maybe you'll just be giving up happy experiences that you might have had.

Of course that's not to say that you should date someone you don't like just for the sake of practice, but turning down good opportunities just because it's "not time" is just ridiculous.

 Jihadin wrote:
Lack of sex or lack of experience in sex?

Lack of a wide array of life experiences which would encompass sex.

Nothing but a mindset.

I'm kind of surprised at the amount of people over 35 who don't have kids. I can't imagine myself having anything to live for at 35 without kids. Like, what are you doing with your life that's so important that you need to continue doing it indefinitely? Your career? Your social life? Your freedom? Isn't there a point when it's time to grow up, and stop living for yourself?

What is the goal of bettering yourself indefinitely if you have nothing to show for it? Will it be worth it in the end, sitting on your deathbed, with no one beside you, no flesh and blood you can call your own?

I don't mean to poke fingers, but that's my fear, at least. I've seen the happiness that children bring, and I envy it. My grandfather has four daughters to his name. He doesn't hardly talk to two of them, but he's still furiously proud of them, for better or worse.

Some people don't want kids... and that's fine.

I don't understand why anyone would want to stigmatize folks who don't want kids??

 Samus_aran115 wrote:

What is the goal of bettering yourself indefinitely if you have nothing to show for it? Will it be worth it in the end, sitting on your deathbed, with no one beside you, no flesh and blood you can call your own?

It depends. I suspect that the main reason I'm not interested in kids is that I've got papers laying around that, one day, I'll get published. My contributions to the world will be academic, if I can ever be bothered to put forth that effort (the review process can burn in hell).

I also don't think about whether or nor it will have been "worth it" in the end, because I'm much more interested in what happens after the end.

 Some_Call_Me_Tim? wrote:


But as this comes from a guy who has purposely made the effort to NOT get involved in a relationship until mid-college/vo-tech/whatever I end up doing for job training or higher ed., YMMV.

_Tim?

You should try. You never know. That cute 21 year old Art History major working as a cashier at the Arby's across the road from your place of employment could, after 7-8 years of loving support as you two work through college/other stuff to get to your vocation, end up being Mrs. _Tim?

And if not 'tis better to loved and lost than never loved at all.

If I ever get out of the friendzone with a female (unlikely ) I might consider having kids, but not until WAAAAY after college.

I want kids, but not until much later in my life when I can give them a good house and good life

If the problem is having trouble getting women, the male dating business is a billion dollar business nowadays. Tons of programs, tons of books, you just need to sort things out, considering most of it is crap

Some people just don't want kids, that's their choice and it shouldn't be stigmatised. But if you're 21 and say you never want kids to the point you'll have a vasectomy then you're a fool. You've still got a lot of growing up to do, life experiences to have, people to meet. Lots of people think they'll never want kids, never even want to get married, maybe never even want a partner. And then they meet someone, and they could be 25, 30, 40, whatever, and their whole life view will change.

On another aspect of relationships, people who claim to be constantly 'friendzoned', the claim that you're so good with women that you can become great friends with them but you just can't make a romantic move. This gets to the point where they feel you're more like a brother than a partner which dooms a relationship. I call BS on this, genuine friendzoning rarely happens because either the girl is aware and simply doesn't and will never reciprocate, or more likely, you just aren't that close friends with them. I've never seen someone 'friendzoned' properly, fact is the girl isn't keen on them and claim of friend zoning is just a face saving exercise.

 Iur_tae_mont wrote:

 Some_Call_Me_Tim? wrote:


But as this comes from a guy who has purposely made the effort to NOT get involved in a relationship until mid-college/vo-tech/whatever I end up doing for job training or higher ed., YMMV.

_Tim?

You should try. You never know. That cute 21 year old Art History major working as a cashier at the Arby's across the road from your place of employment could, after 7-8 years of loving support as you two work through college/other stuff to get to your vocation, end up being Mrs. _Tim?

And if not 'tis better to loved and lost than never loved at all.

Meh, I view romantic relationships as a waste of time. Most people don't, but I do. Plus, romantic highschool bf/gf-gf/gf-bf/bf relationships are always mind-bogglingly stupid and seem to never end well.

Oh, and I hate the term "friendzoned". I forget who said this first, but the term seems to suggest that women are just human slot machines-you put enough money and time in to them and eventually you'll get laid.

_Tim?

Samus_aran115 wrote:I'm kind of surprised at the amount of people over 35 who don't have kids. I can't imagine myself having anything to live for at 35 without kids. Like, what are you doing with your life that's so important that you need to continue doing it indefinitely? Your career? Your social life? Your freedom? Isn't there a point when it's time to grow up, and stop living for yourself?

As opposed to living for? A child that doesnt' exist yet? A society that's already overpopulated? A planet that's seeing other species go extinct so that more humans can take up the finite space?

Perhaps a better question would be, what's so special about your genes that they need to be propagated? What have you done that's worth continuing your DNA? Are you so egotistical to think that your spawn is more important than the planet? Perhaps you should grow up and stop looking at these things through the microscope of your petty existence.

Harsh huh? I didn't join this thread to bash people with kids. But if you're going to sit here and tell me I need to grow up because I've made a conscious decision not to reproduce because I don't think that more humans is what the world needs, I fear it's you who are immature and self-centered. Your DNA is not special. Your offspring are not special.

The choice to reproduce is the easy choice. It's the expected choice. It's the one society takes for granted, and the one that you're led to not through any great thought on the matter but by your animal instincts. The choice to not reproduce is the harder one. We have to deal with the ignorant, like you. We have to listen to people like you call us selfish, when in fact, we're the ones denying our instincts for the betterment of the planet.

What is the goal of bettering yourself indefinitely if you have nothing to show for it?

So you believe that the only thing possible to show for a life is a child? The stupidest people on the planet can figure out insert tab A into slot B and make a child. This isn't exactly an amazing legacy.

Will it be worth it in the end, sitting on your deathbed, with no one beside you, no flesh and blood you can call your own?

I plan to die screaming, undertaking some foolish venture, not on a bed. Again, I find your logic sorely lacking. The reason to have kids is so that they're there when you die? Isn't that selfish? I've seen plenty of people with kids die alone too, having children is no guarantee that you won't be lonely.

I don't mean to poke fingers, but that's my fear, at least. I've seen the happiness that children bring, and I envy it.

So, when someone denies themselves this happiness, you call them selfish. This is not the adjective most people would use when describing someone who denies themselves happiness. I think you need to think through your stance here some. BTW - when taken scientifically, studies show that people without children are happier than people with children and live more satisfying lives. Perhaps then I am selfish. But, given these studies, I have to ask, if children are such bundles of joy, why are people, in general, happier without them?

See, I think society forces people to say that they enjoy their kids, because it's unacceptable to say that you wish you never had them. In the meantime, you hear parents complaining that they can't go out anymore, never have sex anymore, are kept awake, are broke, and how their kid crashed their car. It doesn't sound quite so happy...

 Redbeard wrote:
See, I think society forces people to say that they enjoy their kids, because it's unacceptable to say that you wish you never had them. In the meantime, you hear parents complaining that they can't go out anymore, never have sex anymore, are kept awake, are broke, and how their kid crashed their car. It doesn't sound quite so happy...

My kids aren't of driving age, but up to that point I don't think this accurately describes my experience at all.

Edit for these damnable quote tags!

My kids aren't of driving age, but up to that point I don't think this accurately describes my experience at all.

Won't still. The driving age though will add more gray hair to you. Not only are they driving but are dating

 Jihadin wrote:

My kids aren't of driving age, but up to that point I don't think this accurately describes my experience at all.

Won't still. The driving age though will add more gray hair to you. Not only are they driving but are dating

That's why I'm so happy in one way that I only have boyz (would've still liked a daughter, but the gender lottery ended up male)....

If I had a daughter dating, I'd be that crazy, over protective old man greeting each boy at the door with a hand-shake and holding a shotgun over my shoulders...

Mine be camo paint, boonie cap on, M4 leaning in the corner, sharpening a combat knife and watchin Apocalypse Now.

 Redbeard wrote:

Samus_aran115 wrote:I'm kind of surprised at the amount of people over 35 who don't have kids. I can't imagine myself having anything to live for at 35 without kids. Like, what are you doing with your life that's so important that you need to continue doing it indefinitely? Your career? Your social life? Your freedom? Isn't there a point when it's time to grow up, and stop living for yourself?

As opposed to living for? A child that doesnt' exist yet? A society that's already overpopulated? A planet that's seeing other species go extinct so that more humans can take up the finite space?

Perhaps a better question would be, what's so special about your genes that they need to be propagated? What have you done that's worth continuing your DNA? Are you so egotistical to think that your spawn is more important than the planet? Perhaps you should grow up and stop looking at these things through the microscope of your petty existence.

Harsh huh? I didn't join this thread to bash people with kids. But if you're going to sit here and tell me I need to grow up because I've made a conscious decision not to reproduce because I don't think that more humans is what the world needs, I fear it's you who are immature and self-centered. Your DNA is not special. Your offspring are not special.

The choice to reproduce is the easy choice. It's the expected choice. It's the one society takes for granted, and the one that you're led to not through any great thought on the matter but by your animal instincts. The choice to not reproduce is the harder one. We have to deal with the ignorant, like you. We have to listen to people like you call us selfish, when in fact, we're the ones denying our instincts for the betterment of the planet.

What is the goal of bettering yourself indefinitely if you have nothing to show for it?

So you believe that the only thing possible to show for a life is a child? The stupidest people on the planet can figure out insert tab A into slot B and make a child. This isn't exactly an amazing legacy.

Will it be worth it in the end, sitting on your deathbed, with no one beside you, no flesh and blood you can call your own?

I plan to die screaming, undertaking some foolish venture, not on a bed. Again, I find your logic sorely lacking. The reason to have kids is so that they're there when you die? Isn't that selfish? I've seen plenty of people with kids die alone too, having children is no guarantee that you won't be lonely.

I don't mean to poke fingers, but that's my fear, at least. I've seen the happiness that children bring, and I envy it.

So, when someone denies themselves this happiness, you call them selfish. This is not the adjective most people would use when describing someone who denies themselves happiness. I think you need to think through your stance here some. BTW - when taken scientifically, studies show that people without children are happier than people with children and live more satisfying lives. Perhaps then I am selfish. But, given these studies, I have to ask, if children are such bundles of joy, why are people, in general, happier without them?

See, I think society forces people to say that they enjoy their kids, because it's unacceptable to say that you wish you never had them. In the meantime, you hear parents complaining that they can't go out anymore, never have sex anymore, are kept awake, are broke, and how their kid crashed their car. It doesn't sound quite so happy...

Wow, someone has broken the sad and bitter scale. I think there are better ways to say you are one of the "No thanks" types for children. And if you need a study to convince yourself that you dont need kids, then Im glad you dont have them. Im sure you could of been a little more of a jerk about your stance on this whole thing, but you certainly would have to work on it

 Redbeard wrote:
snip

In my opinion, you're thinking about this in the bleakest, most pessimistic way possible. All this garbage about propagation and genes is just talk. In reality, the world will not tip over on its head because one more american, middle class child is born to intelligent, successful parents.

Reproduction is a simple choice... Yes, of course it is. That doesn't mean it's the wrong choice, or the easiest choice. Raising children is an accomplishment in itself, regardless of how many billions of people have done it before you.

No, a child is not the only thing that you can show for. Not at all. A good book you wrote, or a scientific paper you wrote, or a piece of art, or any number of things are great ways to show that you actually did something with your life. But in the end, who cares? Who cares how many degrees you have, how much money you made, how popular you were? Your children will care.

The point flew right over your head. It's not about having them their just for the sake of it. It's the emotion, the passion of knowing your time has come, yet there are children by your side, ready to carry on your legacy, or make legacies of their own. You're thinking too short term. They won't be children forever. The bonds you share with your adult children are not the same as the bonds you have with crying little babies.

Why are people generally happier without them? I'd like to see some sauce, please. That's proving a negative. People who don't have kids don't know the happiness that they bring, so therefore have no idea what they're missing. It's true that some parents will lie and say that they're happier since having children, but I'd still be willing to bet that most parents are happier, especially as age goes up.

Agreeing with Kingcracker, for the most part.

 Samus_aran115 wrote:

But in the end, who cares? Who cares how many degrees you have, how much money you made, how popular you were? Your children will care.

Your friends and admirers? You don't need a blood relation to care about another person. There would be far fewer Einstein posters on walls if that were not true.

 Samus_aran115 wrote:

Why are people generally happier without them? I'd like to see some sauce, please.

Here.

Basically, children tend reduce reporting rates of happiness in couples.

If I had to guess I would say that they aren't really less happy in aggregate, but that their happiness varies with greater extremity due to the existence of an additional stressor.

And on the subject of "being at your side when you die," I'd like to refute that claim. As has been mentioned, the lines of personal connection extend beyond familial connection. Furthermore, blood does not guarantee appreciation. I know that my grandfather will receive no comfort from me on his deathbed, and I'm sure that I'm not an isolated case.

Ignore that spiteful statement about being 20 without having had a relationship being weird.

It really, really, isn't and there are a lot of people that age who have never been in one, both male and female.

Also, not wanting kids is a perfectly rational choice at *any* point in your life.

If childcare is not something you'd enjoy, then there is no need. The planet is overpopulated enough already, and we are on a one-way trip to destroying the enviroment if we keep on breeding and breeding until there are 50 billion humans on the planet all packed together in hive cities.

Also, the concept of "passing on your genes" is flawed.

Serial killers have been sons of priests before now, and will be again. Environment and personal choice matters more than genes to a certain extent.

Also, in 32 generations time, your contribution to the human gene pool will be non-existent as the number of your chromosones that are passed on with each generation halves.

So doing it for that reason "to make a mini-me to gain immortality or something" is also a flawed concept.

Make your mark on the world by contributing positively to humanity, with your own legacy.. putting another slab of meat on the planet doesn't make you special or immortal or "leave a contribution", you're just doing the same thing that everyone else has been doing as a result of their biological impulses.

For balance, I'd like to state that I would personally like kids, but to present that opinion as the only possible valid mindset as some people in this thread are doing is absolutely ridiculous.

The idea that there is "something wrong with you" if you don't is just a BS societal concept that serves no valid purpose, learn to identify and ignore all of those social constructs and just do whatever makes you happy.

For what it's worth, overpopulation may be an issue, but it should be noted that our decrease in repopulation will also end up being troublesome with the higher concentration of older people compared to younger people as years go by. We're looking forward to a situation similar to that which Japan is facing right now.
Our healthcare and pensions will be in big trouble without a sizable younger generation to help pay it off.

Just saying.

 scarletsquig wrote:
Ignore that spiteful statement about being 20 without having had a relationship being weird.

It really, really, isn't and there are a lot of people that age who have never been in one, both male and female.

It depends on what you mean by "relationship". I didn't have a serious relationship until I was 21, but I started chasing girls (with varying success) way before that.

To consciously decide that an arbitrary point in the future is when you'll start considering sexuality is a bit odd, and probably not reflective of your actual consideration of sexuality.

KingCracker wrote:
Wow, someone has broken the sad and bitter scale. I think there are better ways to say you are one of the "No thanks" types for children.

I'm sure there are. I said as much in my first post on the thread. And then I was accused of being selfish and immature. I was told to grow up. And in responding in kind, I'm the one who broke the sad and bitter scale?

And if you need a study to convince yourself that you dont need kids, then Im glad you dont have them.

I don't need a study to know what is best for me. The study, however, is a useful response to those who say that I can only be happy if I have kids.

Samus_aran115 wrote:
In my opinion, you're thinking about this in the bleakest, most pessimistic way possible. All this garbage about propagation and genes is just talk. In reality, the world will not tip over on its head because one more american, middle class child is born to intelligent, successful parents.

No, but it will when 20 kids are born to lower class ignorant parents... Ever hear of the Duggars?

Raising children is an accomplishment in itself, regardless of how many billions of people have done it before you.

So is feeding yourself everyday...

The point flew right over your head.

No, apparently the point flew right over yours. My wife and I made a choice, one we're happy with. We don't need you to come along and tell us that we're childish and selfish because of that choice. We don't need you to tell us that, in your opinion, our lives won't be fulfilling because of that choice. You haven't made one single argument that isn't based upon the idea that what you think is right for you must therefore also be right for everyone else.

Why are people generally happier without them? I'd like to see some sauce, please.

There are a ton of articles available about this. Here's one link, written by a PhD, from Psychology Today: http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/complete-without-kids/201103/fact-or-fiction-childfree-couples-are-happier-couples-kids. You can do your own research and your own google searches if you want more than that one.

That's proving a negative.

It is doing no such thing, you clearly have no idea what this entails.

People who don't have kids don't know the happiness that they bring, so therefore have no idea what they're missing.

Right, because we cannot observe things in others that have not happened to us. I've got an idea, why don't you hit yourself in the head with a hammer. It's great fun. You haven't done it, therefore you don't know what you're missing.

See how your logic is horribly flawed.

It's true that some parents will lie and say that they're happier since having children, but I'd still be willing to bet that most parents are happier, especially as age goes up.

I'll take the scientific studies over your bet.

 dogma wrote:
It depends on what you mean by "relationship". I didn't have a serious relationship until I was 21, but I started chasing girls (with varying success) way before that.

To consciously decide that an arbitrary point in the future is when you'll start considering sexuality is a bit odd, and probably not reflective of your actual consideration of sexuality.

Sure, but you can always change your mind if you feel the desire to have a relationship is stronger than your desire to do other things.

Me, I'm really just not interested in a deeply committed relationship at this point. If I find one, who knows? I'd probably roll with it. but I'm not actively looking.

Right, I see an infamous quote pyramid on the horizon, the dark meat of the thread that no one bothers reading, and just scrolls right past, so I won't even bother.

It's none of my fething business how you live your life. That's what you want to hear, right?

 Samus_aran115 wrote:


It's none of my fething business how you live your life. That's what you want to hear, right?

Preferably, yes.

 Cheesecat wrote:

 Samus_aran115 wrote:


It's none of my fething business how you live your life. That's what you want to hear, right?

Preferably, yes.

/thread

It really isn't anyone's fething business.