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I'm curious to see how many people are running the Aegis Defence Line in a competitive list.

I really like the Telion+Scouts+ADL combo but it almost seems not worth it considering the gun can be destroyed pretty easily.

Anyone have some experience and input on how well this works? as well as if it's worth the points in the configuration I mentioned above?

I would say it is quite competitive. I wouldn't take it to RELY heavily on the gun. I would take it for surefire cover. The landing pad is also very useful for this.

I have seen some on the board competitively, as well as used the defense line myself.

A defense line with some good IG artillery behind it is really good. Put camo netting on that basilisk or manticore inside the defense line and that is a 3+ cover.

Depends on the army and units within it. An IG army makes good use of the ADL, Draigowing on the other hand would struggle to do the same.

I'm in love with my ADL. Not only does it give my gunline a decent save against incoming fire, but it has a 50pt gun which gives my (normally bored with a laspisol) company commander something to do in the shooting phase.

A lot of people are taking them, I'm comfortable with saying they're competitive, at least for IG...

It does woners for any squishy army that needs a cover save. The armies with the most to gain are probably IG and orks. Lootas are expensive and squishy, but if they go to ground for a 2+ only half of their accuracy is lost.

Its one of those really undercosted things that can make a difference. For 50 point, you get a 4+ cover and a 2+ gtg to boot. With ruins beings downgrades to 5+, It makes a nice efficient way to protect a gun line.

I have a feeling that GW will be selling hundreds of these.

Ruins are still 4+. Most other cover went to 5+.

 Mannahnin wrote:
Ruins are still 4+. Most other cover went to 5+.

it is only a 4+ save if the shot is going through a wall. Otherwise ruins give you a 5+ save. Probably the source of the confusion.

Wonder what skyshields will do competitively, they are higher (so better LOS), fit more guys (theoretically), confer a ++ save, guide deep strikers if needed and are extremely hard to get up (bye-bye assaults).

Maybe I should try one

NickTheButcher wrote:I'm curious to see how many people are running the Aegis Defence Line in a competitive list.

I really like the Telion+Scouts+ADL combo but it almost seems not worth it considering the gun can be destroyed pretty easily.

There's the catch that most people get stuck on; the gun gets easily destroyed. But the fact is the gun isn't the important part. It is a good gun no doubt, and handy to help along side your other AA, but it can't do AA alone anyway, so in either case it isn't a huge loss. What's important in the combo above is the 2+ cover save for the Scouts sitting on your objective.

quilava1 wrote: and are extremely hard to get up (bye-bye assaults).

No they aren't. You can assault up onto them easily enough as it isn't very good at blocking LOS, and even in general it's a huge piece that can be accessed from any point.

Stupid question here..
Does the gun need to be behind or within the walls?

Yea the defense line can be a god send really. Not to mention a nice F-U to flyers/anything coming in from reserves. Game breaking? No way. Game changer? Can be.

danpieri wrote:
Stupid question here..
Does the gun need to be behind or within the walls?

I believe it can be placed anywhere, but why wouldn't you want the cover save when two las cannons will make it die.

 svendrex wrote:

 Mannahnin wrote:
Ruins are still 4+. Most other cover went to 5+.

it is only a 4+ save if the shot is going through a wall. Otherwise ruins give you a 5+ save. Probably the source of the confusion.

You're still confusing ruins with area terrain, in 5th they considered ruins to be area terrain which is why they got a 4+ cover. Now only the ground is area terrain (if based) and the rest is considered open if you have no part of the ruin blocking LOS.

They're competitive. I take one in my tournament shooty (razorspam) Grey Knights list. They help improve the survivability of vehicles immensely and are good for any firebase / gunline army. Best results I've seen have been with IG mech, GK Mech, Eldar firebases of any sort, and Chaos (for their Oblits to hide in... but it's irrelevant now that the new codex brings a beast of an anti-flyer for them).

So depending on your army and your list, Id say go for it. If you already have strong anti-air (like Blood Angels, IG, or new Chaos) then it's probably not needed unless you're running a mech or firebase list. If you run an assaulty list, forget it.

 Kevin949 wrote:

 svendrex wrote:

 Mannahnin wrote:
Ruins are still 4+. Most other cover went to 5+.

it is only a 4+ save if the shot is going through a wall. Otherwise ruins give you a 5+ save. Probably the source of the confusion.

You're still confusing ruins with area terrain, in 5th they considered ruins to be area terrain which is why they got a 4+ cover. Now only the ground is area terrain (if based) and the rest is considered open if you have no part of the ruin blocking LOS.

Can you direct me to a page that states this? I don't believe line of sight or anything blocking it has anything to do with gettig a 4+ save while in ruins.

Chancetragedy wrote:

 Kevin949 wrote:

 svendrex wrote:

 Mannahnin wrote:
Ruins are still 4+. Most other cover went to 5+.

it is only a 4+ save if the shot is going through a wall. Otherwise ruins give you a 5+ save. Probably the source of the confusion.

You're still confusing ruins with area terrain, in 5th they considered ruins to be area terrain which is why they got a 4+ cover. Now only the ground is area terrain (if based) and the rest is considered open if you have no part of the ruin blocking LOS.

Can you direct me to a page that states this? I don't believe line of sight or anything blocking it has anything to do with gettig a 4+ save while in ruins.

Again, they're not area terrain anymore so just "being" in a ruin doesn't give you a save. Only based ruins give cover on the ground floor and it's a 5+. You may be thinking that because ruins are difficult terrain that they're area terrain, but they're not. Again, if I have clear line of sight to your guys on the 2nd or higher floor of a ruin you don't get a cover save as you have nothing to hide in or behind.

Oh, and it's page 98 for the ruins rules.

 Kevin949 wrote:

Chancetragedy wrote:

 Kevin949 wrote:

 svendrex wrote:

 Mannahnin wrote:
Ruins are still 4+. Most other cover went to 5+.

it is only a 4+ save if the shot is going through a wall. Otherwise ruins give you a 5+ save. Probably the source of the confusion.

You're still confusing ruins with area terrain, in 5th they considered ruins to be area terrain which is why they got a 4+ cover. Now only the ground is area terrain (if based) and the rest is considered open if you have no part of the ruin blocking LOS.

Can you direct me to a page that states this? I don't believe line of sight or anything blocking it has anything to do with gettig a 4+ save while in ruins.

Again, they're not area terrain anymore so just "being" in a ruin doesn't give you a save. Only based ruins give cover on the ground floor and it's a 5+. You may be thinking that because ruins are difficult terrain that they're area terrain, but they're not. Again, if I have clear line of sight to your guys on the 2nd or higher floor of a ruin you don't get a cover save as you have nothing to hide in or behind.

Oh, and it's page 98 for the ruins rules.

I'm seeing on page 98 "All ruins are difficult terrain and provide a 4+ cover save" and if it has a base "treat the base as area terrain"

So just standing on the base gives you a 5+ cover save and counts as difficult terrain. Standing behind a wall or otherwise obscured grants a 4+.

I think the rule that if you can't see someone you cant shoot at them still applies. So only if you can see the unit and they are behind cover in a ruin do they get a 4+. If you cant s them you cant shoot still, even though it's a ruin.

Fearfire wrote:

I'm seeing on page 98 "All ruins are difficult terrain and provide a 4+ cover save" and if it has a base "treat the base as area terrain"

So just standing on the base gives you a 5+ cover save and counts as difficult terrain. Standing behind a wall or otherwise obscured grants a 4+.

I think the rule that if you can't see someone you cant shoot at them still applies. So only if you can see the unit and they are behind cover in a ruin do they get a 4+. If you cant s them you cant shoot still, even though it's a ruin.

Yup, that's what I was saying. I believe chancetragedy was under the impression that if you're "in" the ruin you get a 4+ cover no matter where the shot comes from, unless you're out of LOS of course.

My daemons plan on making maximum use from these!
oh, wait ................ :(

 Kevin949 wrote:

Fearfire wrote:

I'm seeing on page 98 "All ruins are difficult terrain and provide a 4+ cover save" and if it has a base "treat the base as area terrain"

So just standing on the base gives you a 5+ cover save and counts as difficult terrain. Standing behind a wall or otherwise obscured grants a 4+.

I think the rule that if you can't see someone you cant shoot at them still applies. So only if you can see the unit and they are behind cover in a ruin do they get a 4+. If you cant s them you cant shoot still, even though it's a ruin.

Yup, that's what I was saying. I believe chancetragedy was under the impression that if you're "in" the ruin you get a 4+ cover no matter where the shot comes from, unless you're out of LOS of course.

Yes the base is considered area terrain thus a 5+ save. But if I'm standing in the second floor of a Ruins building and you have clear line of sight to my troops I'd still get a 4+ ruins save no? I'm actually wanting to agree because I Play against a lot of ruins castling gunlines. And I'd like nothIng more than to spam it back in their faces. But I don't see in the rules where it says if your in ruins but have clear line site you don't get a save.

If you have full clear view of someone in the ruins, they do not get a cover save. Ruins by themselves are not area terrain.

Chancetragedy wrote:

 Kevin949 wrote:

Fearfire wrote:

I'm seeing on page 98 "All ruins are difficult terrain and provide a 4+ cover save" and if it has a base "treat the base as area terrain"

So just standing on the base gives you a 5+ cover save and counts as difficult terrain. Standing behind a wall or otherwise obscured grants a 4+.

I think the rule that if you can't see someone you cant shoot at them still applies. So only if you can see the unit and they are behind cover in a ruin do they get a 4+. If you cant s them you cant shoot still, even though it's a ruin.

Yup, that's what I was saying. I believe chancetragedy was under the impression that if you're "in" the ruin you get a 4+ cover no matter where the shot comes from, unless you're out of LOS of course.

Yes the base is considered area terrain thus a 5+ save. But if I'm standing in the second floor of a Ruins building and you have clear line of sight to my troops I'd still get a 4+ ruins save no? I'm actually wanting to agree because I Play against a lot of ruins castling gunlines. And I'd like nothIng more than to spam it back in their faces. But I don't see in the rules where it says if your in ruins but have clear line site you don't get a save.

As the poster above me said, the only time you get a save just for being in something is when you're in area terrain, outside of that there *must* be something blocking 25% or more of the model being shot from the firer.

 Shandara wrote:
If you have full clear view of someone in the ruins, they do not get a cover save. Ruins by themselves are not area terrain.

I'm gonna go by this and see how it goes at my lgs. I like this explanation and am gonna have a kick slamming people with it.

 Shandara wrote:
If you have full clear view of someone in the ruins, they do not get a cover save. Ruins by themselves are not area terrain.

This is correct and one of my favorite changes with 6th. Nothing urked me more then a piece of ruin terrain with a squad of dudes standing on the perfectly clear and intact top floor that had a 50% chance to negate incoming fire.

Chancetragedy wrote:

 Shandara wrote:
If you have full clear view of someone in the ruins, they do not get a cover save. Ruins by themselves are not area terrain.

I'm gonna go by this and see how it goes at my lgs. I like this explanation and am gonna have a kick slamming people with it.

Just show them the very distinct differences in wording for ruins rules in 5th compared to 6th. I think you'll be able to convince them then (since the first line in 5th edition is them saying "Ruins are Area terrain". and there is no wording for that in 6th).

 BlueDagger wrote:

 Shandara wrote:
If you have full clear view of someone in the ruins, they do not get a cover save. Ruins by themselves are not area terrain.

This is correct and one of my favorite changes with 6th. Nothing urked me more then a piece of ruin terrain with a squad of dudes standing on the perfectly clear and intact top floor that had a 50% chance to negate incoming fire.

Agreed. Theres a CSM player that would do that all the time, and it would annoy the hell out of me, the few times I have weapons that ignore SM saves, would be trumped by a building top

 Kevin949 wrote:

 svendrex wrote:

 Mannahnin wrote:
Ruins are still 4+. Most other cover went to 5+.

it is only a 4+ save if the shot is going through a wall. Otherwise ruins give you a 5+ save. Probably the source of the confusion.

You're still confusing ruins with area terrain, in 5th they considered ruins to be area terrain which is why they got a 4+ cover. Now only the ground is area terrain (if based) and the rest is considered open if you have no part of the ruin blocking LOS.

Thanks for pointing this out.

I'm planning on standing some fortuned and guided Scatter Laser Warwalkers behind an ADL. With the 36" range of the guns, that's a lot of very effective fire that'll remain relatively safe with the rerollable 4+ that they'll be getting. I'd even be very comfortable with using that as an AA unit in the event the gun gets taken out.