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MIKE Hayes is a former member of the Campaign for Nuclear Disarmament, a long-term peace activist and an all-round jolly nice fellow.
It is well to remember this as he sits in his Ranmoor dining room plotting the atomic Armageddon of western Europe. And the downfall, to boot, of your correspondent’s Spanish empire.
“It’s a peaceful game, really,” he says, looking at the board. “Ultimately, it’s about the futility of war.”
Then he explodes a nuclear bomb right over Madrid destroying several armies. Or small plastic counters, if you will.
Welcome, reader, to Classic Warlord.
It’s a game Mike, a retired Sheffield University business studies professor, invented himself some 50 years ago and which was something of a hit.
Games Workshop bought the rights. Some 20,000 copies were sold under the cheery name Apocalypse. And - that ultimate sign of success - a motion was passed in Parliament demanding it be banned for inciting nuclear war.
“I would suggest that playing Dr Strangelove on the dining room table was ethically better than whitewashing your windows, the official Civil Defence solution to Armageddon,” says Mike. “Fortunately, the motion failed.”
Now, after GW’s contract ran out, he and wife Mary, 69, are to bring the game back. They have produced 500 to sell online.
“I’m retired,” says Mike. “So it beats twiddling my thumbs.
“GW phoned me in May and asked if they could renew the rights. But I thought, well, if they think it can work, I’ll have a go at doing it myself.”
So he has done.
And it’s easy to see why it was once loved everywhere from the uni’s Bar One to Borstal (several copies were ordered by the young offenders institute).
Players start out with an empire and spend the next couple of hours invading, retreating, negotiating, double crossing and lobbing nuclear warheads about. If you’re not ruthless, you’re probably not going to win.
“Essentially it lets you become Machiavelli for a bit,” says Mike.
Back in the Seventies, he took his proto-version - knocked up in the cellar - down to the student’s union and played with the chess club. Several members liked it so much they asked to buy their own. One got in the hands of GW bosses and the rest was history. Until now.
“I forgot about it after that, really,” says Mike. “We were busy bringing up five children.”
Which paid off too - because this time he’s enlisted their help.
“One of our daughters is a graphic designer so she did the board and another is a web designer so she did the website,” explains Mike, a grandfather-of-eight. “We discussed it as a family and we decided it was disgraceful that I’d been a professor of business studies but never tried to market the game myself.”
There have been a couple of rule changes and the map has altered but largely it’s the same. And Mike is sure it’s still relevant in a post Cold War age.
“The threat never goes away,” he says. “With this game you see nuclear war’s futility. Whoever wins is left with a world devastated by radiation. The board asks the question: ‘Victory - but at what cost?’”
Pre-order Classic Warlord at www.classicwarlord.com
never even heard of it before, at least not to my recollection.
Bit odd/surprising that GW tried to renew the rights in May this year ...?
One does wonder if this was perhaps related to other ongoing legal concerns to do with copyright and the like... but then again I'm not sure that would apply or be relevant here.
.. anyone played the game ?
The poor man really has a stake in the country. The rich man hasn't; he can go away to New Guinea in a yacht. The poor have sometimes objected to being governed badly; the rich have always objected to being governed at all
We love our superheroes because they refuse to give up on us. We can analyze them out of existence, kill them, ban them, mock them, and still they return, patiently reminding us of who we are and what we wish we could be.
"the play's the thing wherein I'll catch the conscience of the king,
This post finally got me to stop my dirty lurking ways. Was introduced to Apocolypse by one of my older brothers friends a very, very long time ago and only got to play a few games.
I really don't think I can put how much I enjoyed it into words, just awesome. Big world map, taking countries. Bit like Risk but, and this is the fun part, you got to construct Nuclear missiles by plugging little ones together. The more that were stuck together, the longer the range.
Have been hunting high and low for a copy of it for years and never knew what happened. Nice to know why it got shelved and understandable that not many, if any, copies have survived the 25 odd years.
I'm going to have to pick up a copy and re-live my dreams of wiping minor empires and countries off the face of the Earth with hot radiation fueled death!!!
Would definitely be interested in purchasing this.
GW Rules Interpretation Syndrom. GWRIS. Causes people to second guess a rule in a book because that's what they would have had to do in a GW system.
SilverMK2 wrote: "Well, I have epilepsy and was holding a knife when I had a seizure... I couldn't help it! I was just trying to chop the vegetables for dinner!"
Thanks for your interest in Classic Warlord. You are on the pre-order list as of today, Thursday Sept. 27. This is our schedule. Final parts arrive tomorrow, 28 Sept, assemble and weigh pre-order sets, establishing postal rates, 29 Sept. Informing and updating our customers on cost of game, post and packaging options and payment options, 30 Sept. Awaiting customer confirmation, money transfers and first deliveries depart, Oct 1st onwards. Well, that is the plan but as all good wargamers know ( from Stalingrad etc), you have to make sure that Sod's Law and Murphy's Law don't intervene.
Yours sincerely,
Mike Hayes
251 point Khador Army
245 points Ret Army
Warmachine League Record: 85 Wins 29 Losses
A proud member of the "I won with Zerkova" club with and without Sylss.
Thanks for your interest in Classic Warlord. You are on the pre-order list as of today, Thursday Sept. 27. This is our schedule. Final parts arrive tomorrow, 28 Sept, assemble and weigh pre-order sets, establishing postal rates, 29 Sept. Informing and updating our customers on cost of game, post and packaging options and payment options, 30 Sept. Awaiting customer confirmation, money transfers and first deliveries depart, Oct 1st onwards. Well, that is the plan but as all good wargamers know ( from Stalingrad etc), you have to make sure that Sod's Law and Murphy's Law don't intervene.
Yours sincerely,
Mike Hayes
How much was the preorder?
GW Rules Interpretation Syndrom. GWRIS. Causes people to second guess a rule in a book because that's what they would have had to do in a GW system.
SilverMK2 wrote: "Well, I have epilepsy and was holding a knife when I had a seizure... I couldn't help it! I was just trying to chop the vegetables for dinner!"
Now the excitement has abated slightly I'm on a bit more of an even keel. Can't really remember gameplay much but it definitely sticks in my memory as a great game to play. It holds up against gws board games of the time very wel, I'm talking about things like blood royale and the fury of dracula , both of which have had reprints so this is long overdue.
I'm a minor-league fan of GW's old boardgames. Lots of cool ones out there, and the art has always grabbed me. I still love my 2nd ed Talisman sets for the old Ian Miller art and such. Just tried Warlock recently as well and enjoyed it (and the Russ Nicholson art).
I've never heard of this one; reminds me of Flying Buffalo's 1965 classic, Nuclear War, only it's a board game with what sound like some fun and attractive components, rather than being card-based.
http://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/713/nuclear-war
notprop wrote: Seems like whatever GW were going to produce as Warhammer 40,000: Apocalypse is now looking for a new brand name.
Yeah, I suspect that GW wanted to renew the copyright purely because of the name similarity to the 40k expansion.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/09/28 00:08:36
Adepticon 2015: Team Tourney Best Imperial Team- Team Ironguts, Adepticon 2014: Team Tourney 6th/120, Best Imperial Team- Cold Steel Mercs 2, 40k Championship Qualifier ~25/226
More2010-2014 GT/Major RTT Record (W/L/D) -- CSM: 78-20-9 // SW: 8-1-2 (Golden Ticket with SW), BA: 29-9-4 6th Ed GT & RTT Record (W/L/D) -- CSM: 36-12-2 // BA: 11-4-1 // SW: 1-1-1
DT:70S++++G(FAQ)M++B++I+Pw40k99#+D+++A+++/sWD105R+++T(T)DM+++++ A better way to score Sportsmanship in tournaments The 40K Rulebook & Codex FAQs. You should have these bookmarked if you play this game.
The Dakka Dakka Forum Rules You agreed to abide by these when you signed up.
The problem is finding enough people and enough time to make a good game. I briefly tried to play online, but it just isn't the same as a good face to face game of diplomacy.
Kirasu: Have we fallen so far that we are excited that GW is giving us the opportunity to spend 58$ for JUST the rules? Surprised it's not "Dataslate: Assault Phase"
AlexHolker: "The power loader is a forklift. The public doesn't complain about a forklift not having frontal armour protecting the crew compartment because the only enemy it is designed to face is the OHSA violation."
AlexHolker: "Allow me to put it this way: Paramount is Skynet, reboots are termination attempts, and your childhood is John Connor."
It is now on his website. 59.00 pounds UK for the game and untracked shipping to the US is another 37.60!
That's $156.00 USD with shipping!
With his fastest 1 day shipping the game is $204.03 USD.
For those in the UK you are still paying 13.80 pounds UK in shipping.
Might be a good game but that shipping will kill it before it gets off the ground.
Here is my email I sent regarding the high shipping costs:
I would love to order your game but your shipping costs are way too high for most people in the US swallow. I think the UK postage is way too high also. There is a lot of excitement on Dakka for your game especially here in the US but you find that we are willing to part with 59.00 pounds UK if the shipping is reasonable but even the untracked shipping is higher than it should be. I think I will wait till some starts selling copies on eBay unless your shipping goes down.
Here is their email I just got in response to my question on why shipping was so high:
Dear Michael
Classic Warlord is now launched and you can purchase it through Paypal. Please note that the cost of sending it to the USA can be quite high. The cost-options are on our website www.classicwarlord.com See the P and P details below the "Order Now" page. Please check with us that you will be sending the correct amount as we don't want you to pay either too much or too little.
I put below a message we have sent to all people who pre-ordered Classic Warlord. We are particularly pleased that the interest in the USA continues after so many years.
CLASSIC WARLORD IS LAUNCHED TODAY
Thank-you to all those fans who pre-ordered Classic Warlord.
We much appreciate your confidence that Mike Hayes’ ultimate version of his famous game will prove to be the Holy Grail of board Wargames.
You sent us some great encouraging emails.
You told us you wanted to buy Classic Warlord and this gave us the motivation to set up in business and to produce this First Edition of 500 games.
Mike will autograph the inside of your box if you would like this. Just let us know.
We hope that you enjoy the challenges presented by Classic Warlord.
Our website www.classicwarlord.com gives full details of how to buy the game.
Kind regards
Mary Hayes
A signature from him is not worth paying double for a board game no matter how good it is. They are going to find that trying to recoop your costs off the first 500 games might work for GW but will fail for a small company such as this. Eat the costs and write them off as a cost of doing business so you can get your foot in the door. This would have done wonders as a kickstarter.
Automatically Appended Next Post: They just sent me a new email saying they ard going to go to the post tomorrow to get new shipping quotes. If they are lower then this will be a must buy again.
Automatically Appended Next Post: I pulled the trigger and spent the money to order the game. I will provide a review of the game when it gets in my hands.
This message was edited 7 times. Last update was at 2012/10/02 22:20:40
251 point Khador Army
245 points Ret Army
Warmachine League Record: 85 Wins 29 Losses
A proud member of the "I won with Zerkova" club with and without Sylss.
Yeah should have probably done this via kickstarter.. Anyone having his e-mail address would care enough to drop him a linkie to dakka? My feeling is that he as a hardcore wargame-junkie might really benefit from some ideas floating on this forum.
Looking to trade away 15mm Forged in Battle Pumas (still in the box).
Mannahnin wrote: I've never heard of this one; reminds me of Flying Buffalo's 1965 classic, Nuclear War, only it's a board game with what sound like some fun and attractive components, rather than being card-based.
http://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/713/nuclear-war
I'll see your game, and raise it with Nukem:
lord_blackfang wrote: Respect to the guy who subscribed just to post a massive ASCII dong in the chat and immediately get banned.
Flinty wrote: The benefit of slate is that its.actually a.rock with rock like properties. The downside is that it's a rock
CainTheHunter wrote: Yeah should have probably done this via kickstarter.. Anyone having his e-mail address would care enough to drop him a linkie to dakka? My feeling is that he as a hardcore wargame-junkie might really benefit from some ideas floating on this forum.
I was emailing him alot right when he first put the game up for sale. I told him about this thread and shot him a link. He has been pretty responsive to C&C. Don't know what his business plan is after this limited run. I hope there is enough intrest that he lowers the price specially on the shipping and starts to produce the game for a wider market.
1864 posts on Dakka. KHAN!!!!!!
251 point Khador Army
245 points Ret Army
Warmachine League Record: 85 Wins 29 Losses
A proud member of the "I won with Zerkova" club with and without Sylss.
Glad that he decided to refuse GW and actually release a copy. I'm sure as others have said GW would just sit on the IP and do nothing with it.
I will have to take a look at the game when I get home.
And to people in the US complaining about the postage, now you know how we feel, even with the discounted international shipping you get with many US kickstarter projects
251 point Khador Army
245 points Ret Army
Black Templars 4000 
Deathwatch 6000
