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 Dunwich wrote:
After a week of wonder why flying Necrons are a french bakery, I finally realized they looked like croissants.

Thanks for that, I actually was wondering as well.

 Dunwich wrote:
After a week of wonder why flying Necrons are a french bakery, I finally realized they looked like croissants.

For marines at least the balance use to be how much to tool the list against armour, how much against horde.

Now new equation, against flyers.

Were pull points from? Less anti armour, less anti horde for flyer offence/defence? Becomes paper scissors rock because there will still be heavy armour lists and mass foot lists.

In summary fliers really introduced a lot more complexity into the meta.

 Dunwich wrote:
After a week of wonder why flying Necrons are a french bakery, I finally realized they looked like croissants.

CAN'T BE UNSEEN!

I was thinking of the long baguettes, or word play. -_- no wonder I never got it.

There aren't too many hard counters to fliers this early in 6th edition (apart from a flier list yourself pretty much).

So just go with the a few general strategies: massed volume of fire (preferrably twin-linked), a fortification with a quad gun or icarus lascannon, and/or ignoring them and aiming for the relatively fewer ground elements (especially their scoring units) that the flier lists typically have available to them.

Play to win the objectives, not necessarily killing your opponents units. Fliers have next to no board presence as they have to keep leaving the table in order to do their thing. This means that you'll have an advantage in having more bodies on the field to deny objectives and control the flow of battle.

 Dunwich wrote:
After a week of wonder why flying Necrons are a french bakery, I finally realized they looked like croissants.

Got it.

In fact, Necron flyers are hard to counter these days. Night Scythes are very cheap flyers when compared with flyers of other races. Another advantage of the NS is that when the flyer crashes, the unit inside goes into reserve (and will not take serious damage).

 wuestenfux wrote:

 Dunwich wrote:
After a week of wonder why flying Necrons are a french bakery, I finally realized they looked like croissants.

Got it.

In fact, Necron flyers are hard to counter these days. Night Scythes are very cheap flyers when compared with flyers of other races. Another advantage of the NS is that when the flyer crashes, the unit inside goes into reserve (and will not take serious damage).

And let's not forget about the Nightscythe allowing its passengers to move 24'' and still fire at full BS.

While the Nightscythe is currently too strong and needs to be nerfed, it still pales in comparison to the ridiculous imbaness the Vendetta represents.

 Godless-Mimicry wrote:
Seems 6th edition came with a not-so-liberal side of naive based on many of the posts here.

Kevlar wrote:
As witnessed in the chaos dex flak missiles are on the way. So let the necron player win for now, but laugh knowing soon all those $60 dollar models will be useless.

GW is just ramping up the flyer builds temporarily for sales, balance shall soon return.

Do you really believe that 5 Marines on foot being able to take 4 S7 akyfire missiles is going to make them useless? Necron flyers should be able to easily blast those Havocs away before they get a chance to fire.

And if having a counter to something in the meta game made something useless, then there would be no armies at all, as everything has a counter (several usually in fact). Guess everything is useless then

3 units of ML havocs, 3 dragons, a couple swooping princes, allied thirster or fatey. I think chaos has quite a few ways to counter flyer spam.

*will have

Kevlar wrote:


3 units of ML havocs, 3 dragons, a couple swooping princes, allied thirster or fatey. I think chaos has quite a few ways to counter flyer spam.

Yes, if you know what you're up to. But if you face an enemy without flyers, you now have 3 completely useless units of havocs plus 3 semi-useful dragons. I know who'd I bet my $ on in such a case.

Um flakk havocs can still use the other missiles no?

Also S6 AP3 throwable flamer, semi-useful indeed.

 Sigvatr wrote:

Kevlar wrote:


3 units of ML havocs, 3 dragons, a couple swooping princes, allied thirster or fatey. I think chaos has quite a few ways to counter flyer spam.

Yes, if you know what you're up to. But if you face an enemy without flyers, you now have 3 completely useless units of havocs plus 3 semi-useful dragons. I know who'd I bet my $ on in such a case.

How are they useless?

 Loricatus Aurora wrote:
For marines you can have three talons w twinlinked lascannons and assault cannons at 150 points

Also with an ADL w Icarus lascannon i would assume as soon as you roll a hit the opponent will throw evade so even if flyer survives his shooting is now snapfire that turn

So thats 4 great platforms dor taking them down.

Otherwise its twinlinked magic whether razors, raiders, dreds and so on while you focus on cleaning up whatever they have on the ground.

TL Tesla Destructors are still 70% effective snap firing. Yes, I did the math....

 tallerguy wrote:

 Loricatus Aurora wrote:
For marines you can have three talons w twinlinked lascannons and assault cannons at 150 points

Also with an ADL w Icarus lascannon i would assume as soon as you roll a hit the opponent will throw evade so even if flyer survives his shooting is now snapfire that turn

So thats 4 great platforms dor taking them down.

Otherwise its twinlinked magic whether razors, raiders, dreds and so on while you focus on cleaning up whatever they have on the ground.

TL Tesla Destructors are still 70% effective snap firing. Yes, I did the math....

Deleting initial reponse

 wuestenfux wrote:
In fact, Necron flyers are hard to counter these days. Night Scythes are very cheap flyers when compared with flyers of other races. Another advantage of the NS is that when the flyer crashes, the unit inside goes into reserve (and will not take serious damage).

Is there an FAQ on this because my local meta insists the passengers will still take the STR 10 no save hit? This damage happens before the unit is placed in reserve according to how it is described in the BRB, but I'd love to prove them wrong, or present a case which holds water.

 Gangrel767 wrote:

 wuestenfux wrote:
In fact, Necron flyers are hard to counter these days. Night Scythes are very cheap flyers when compared with flyers of other races. Another advantage of the NS is that when the flyer crashes, the unit inside goes into reserve (and will not take serious damage).

Is there an FAQ on this because my local meta insists the passengers will still take the STR 10 no save hit? This damage happens before the unit is placed in reserve according to how it is described in the BRB, but I'd love to prove them wrong, or present a case which holds water.

There is none, in fact neither side of that argument had a 100% RAW answer for this since GW didn't give one. Many necron players argue fluff and most people seem to agree though.

 Godless-Mimicry wrote:

 Sigvatr wrote:

Kevlar wrote:


3 units of ML havocs, 3 dragons, a couple swooping princes, allied thirster or fatey. I think chaos has quite a few ways to counter flyer spam.

Yes, if you know what you're up to. But if you face an enemy without flyers, you now have 3 completely useless units of havocs plus 3 semi-useful dragons. I know who'd I bet my $ on in such a case.

How are they useless?

Assuming the rumor about the skyfire upgrade is true, if you take skyfire rocket launchers, you cannot choose to fire the regular ammunition thus can only hit ground stuff with snapshots.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 HoverBoy wrote:

There is none, in fact neither side of that argument had a 100% RAW answer for this since GW didn't give one. Many necron players argue fluff and most people seem to agree though.

This. I'd also argue in favor of them not getting any damage. First of all, fluff-wise, the Night Scythe does not contain any passengers. Secondly, its special rule says that "[...]if it[the flyer] is destroyed[...]" which means, to me, that as soon as it is clear that it's wrecked / the Explosion! result is rolled, the special rule kicks in and afterwards, you deal with the consequences.

If in doubt, roll off.

 Sigvatr wrote:

 Godless-Mimicry wrote:

 Sigvatr wrote:

Kevlar wrote:


3 units of ML havocs, 3 dragons, a couple swooping princes, allied thirster or fatey. I think chaos has quite a few ways to counter flyer spam.

Yes, if you know what you're up to. But if you face an enemy without flyers, you now have 3 completely useless units of havocs plus 3 semi-useful dragons. I know who'd I bet my $ on in such a case.

How are they useless?

Assuming the rumor about the skyfire upgrade is true, if you take skyfire rocket launchers, you cannot choose to fire the regular ammunition thus can only hit ground stuff with snapshots.

It's not true, we found that out ages ago.

 Godless-Mimicry wrote:

 Sigvatr wrote:

 Godless-Mimicry wrote:

 Sigvatr wrote:

Kevlar wrote:


3 units of ML havocs, 3 dragons, a couple swooping princes, allied thirster or fatey. I think chaos has quite a few ways to counter flyer spam.

Yes, if you know what you're up to. But if you face an enemy without flyers, you now have 3 completely useless units of havocs plus 3 semi-useful dragons. I know who'd I bet my $ on in such a case.

How are they useless?

Assuming the rumor about the skyfire upgrade is true, if you take skyfire rocket launchers, you cannot choose to fire the regular ammunition thus can only hit ground stuff with snapshots.

It's not true, we found that out ages ago.

Read that just a few days ago :/

So, what's the current state of knowledge regarding the AA issue?

 Godless-Mimicry wrote:

 Sigvatr wrote:

 Godless-Mimicry wrote:

 Sigvatr wrote:

Kevlar wrote:


3 units of ML havocs, 3 dragons, a couple swooping princes, allied thirster or fatey. I think chaos has quite a few ways to counter flyer spam.

Yes, if you know what you're up to. But if you face an enemy without flyers, you now have 3 completely useless units of havocs plus 3 semi-useful dragons. I know who'd I bet my $ on in such a case.

How are they useless?

Assuming the rumor about the skyfire upgrade is true, if you take skyfire rocket launchers, you cannot choose to fire the regular ammunition thus can only hit ground stuff with snapshots.

It's not true, we found that out ages ago.

Skyfire for ancient Warriors lost in the warp.

I like all the advice in this thread. When my buddy plays his flying C I just force jinks to get snap shots so I don't eat death rays for breakfest.

Sigvatr wrote:So, what's the current state of knowledge regarding the AA issue?

They can upgrade to buy Flakk Missiles in addition to Frags and Kraks, making them good against everything except Terminators.

 Godless-Mimicry wrote:

Sigvatr wrote:So, what's the current state of knowledge regarding the AA issue?

They can upgrade to buy Flakk Missiles in addition to Frags and Kraks, making them good against everything except Terminators.

Will this upgrade be expensive or viable?
The other issue is who wants to field Havocs when there are other options in the HS section like Helldrake, Oblits, and Fiends?

 wuestenfux wrote:
Will this upgrade be expensive or viable? The other issue is who wants to field Havocs when there are other options in the HS section like Helldrake, Oblits, and Fiends?

I think I read 10 points for flakk. and to answer you second question... someone who wants AA gunfire! That ability is what makes people want them.

Chaos will be the first army to have AA missiles...thus I'd just ally 1 squad of them in.

 Sigvatr wrote:
Chaos will be the first army to have AA missiles...thus I'd just ally 1 squad of them in.

Well, it will depend on what kind of army you're playing.

 wuestenfux wrote:

 Sigvatr wrote:
Chaos will be the first army to have AA missiles...thus I'd just ally 1 squad of them in.

Well, it will depend on what kind of army you're playing.

I disagree. It will depend on what army you play against...as always, it depends on the meta. I play vs flyers but only a few - so those AA launchers will surely pay off.

Yes its forgeworld but hyperos air defence launchers are very good at anti flyers, and anti armour and anti space marines, so much so a tourny I was at, at the weekend has caused quite a few people to moan about them including a 'cron player with 6 flyers and demon player with 3 lots of 9 flamers....

Our local meta does not allow FW. The biggest problem is the balance...a lot of new rules are terrible, the latest example being the ridiculously overpowered Necron mosquitos.

Get your squishy troops onto the enemy's board side so the flyers zoom over them in most cases (I play BA so I realize this doesn't work for everybody)

But I have flyer spam. Luckily, if I wanted to I can spam some stormravens of my own and likely knock them out of the skies without them posing *too* much of a challenge against my flying metal bawkses