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What pointers do you guys have on IG, BA, and SM taking on 4-8 Necron flyers in a sub 2K game?

I see this one as a very steep climb (especially for SM, who can only take 3 weak flyers). IG can do Valk?Hydras vs Doom/Night and BA can throw some SR around, but what can SM do without going allies or Forgeworld?

nothing . even if they tailor it is still inferior to pure flyer builds.
only way for a necron scyth wing to lose against marine is either rolls or the necron player being incompetent. not knowing what to focus fire , not runing bastion storm lord to make him unkillable, forgetting the game objectives etc.

A fortification with a quad-gun and lots of TLAC dreadnoughts and/or assault cannon?

How many TLAC razorbacks can you fit in 2k points?

What sort of weapons can they take? Not familiar w necron codex.

Could infantry hide in say raiders or fortress?

Necron Flyers are all AV 11. It's not that hard to glance/pen that.

The SM fliers are definitely not bad at killing them, as long as they enter second. Hell, three will definitely kill two per turn. Unfortunately, that does leave 2-6 more to kill...

Beyond that, if there's something I've noticed, it's that Twin-Linked weapons have a much better time hitting fliers. In terms of math, they hit 6/36 times without TL, and 11/36 of the time with TL.

Someone mentioned dual TLAC Dreadnoughts? Each of its four shots has a 15% chance to cause damage. Not great at face value, but even if the TLAC had skyfire, it would cause damage only 44% of the time per shot. If you spam that, you'll certainly have something dangerous. Combined with Talons, and you'll have a veritable anti-bakery list.

well like I was saying in the general discussion thread for IG I'd go:

CCS with AC/ML and Officer of the fleet (by far most useful use of this guy)
Platoons with HWT's (to get orders for BID and some plasma guns when you can fit them in, (str 7 still works!)
Exterminator LR with HB sponsons and heavy stubber gun boat
Vendettas (at least 2 squads)
Hydra squadron at least 2 tanks in the squad
Aegis with quad (so you can go to ground and get 2+ cover) Try to get cammo netting/cloaks for as many of the units/tanks as possible as the only thing the necron air lists don't really do that well is ignoring cover or bypassing cover somehow.

SW allies with 2 rune priests for buffs and long fangs with missles and some GH could help or you could just get another CCS for more orders and get more vendettas

As to SM, really nothing super comes to mind as a good counter. storm talons are about the best choice you can do. Maybe hunker down in ruins with techmarines to boost the ruins? Vulcan lists look good on paper as they can twin link stuff but metlas are highly ineffective vs the flier lists as I've found out from trial and error. A jink move can negate small number of shots, You'll likely be out of range quite often, and most melta gun units can't be spammed in enough numbers.

Going by my IG strat, I'm guessing tanks hiding in ruins with bolster by techmarines, scouts with missles / camo cloaks hiding all over the place may do ok but pretty poor mobility if you are going for a win. Other wierd ideas could be lysander in some sort of heavy bolter devestator squad? (probably ineffective honestly, str is too low) A bike army may do ok as you can limit the flier's fire lanes by moving flat out turn one and two and be essentially limit the fliers to 3 ish rounds of shooting total though I don't have much experience with them either playing as or against bike lists so probably hope someone else here can give you more detailed help probably. biomancy librarian maybe to FnP stuff?
Calgar vs MSS is always a good hoot though I've yet to see Calgar get fielded and he's otherwise not gonna do much vs the fliers :/

I've actually started moving away from flyer builds as the main stay of my army list (after I purchased 5 of the suckers). Wraiths + DLord are the new black for me. They're really just flying razorbacks...enough dakka will take them down easily and while 4 TL S7 shots isn't fun to try and survive you always get your armor save and they only shoot at you for 2-3 turns. The quad gun will spell the death of one flyer which will then act as a magnet for the rest of them so try not to have any other units within their perceived arc of fire if you can just so he'll end up wasting a bunch of shots after he blows away the gun.

I forget what kind of ally IG is for SM but you could invest in two or three hydras. They're only 75 pts each and would take out one scythe each per turn.

If you take drop marines and drop your pods on T1 6-8" from their table edge then spread out your marines they will have to fly past you as they can't stop within 2" of your base.

Flyer turning circles are poor so if you force them past you you have ~2-3 turns of shooting before they can do a thing. Then the game ends. You get linebreaker, likely first blood and all the objectives on their table half. Fun times.

These lists also have the best chance of killing whatever they have on the board T1 melta a bastion and see if the contents can survive.

Very tough for SMs... My buddy runs a list like this: 4 night scythes (with 5 warriors in each), 1 doom scythe, 2 squads of wraiths with a DLord in each, 3 spyders, 4 scarabs (at the beginning), annihilation barge. It's the most competitive list I've ever played.
I have no good advice besides "bring as many lascannons as you can" and kill the wraiths before they assault your guns; if you can do that then you have a small chance at popping off the flyers (or their content) as they come in...

I run a list with some scouts, tacticals in pod with captain, 2 ironclads in pods, 3 stormtalons, 3 thunderfire cannons and some eldar allied rangers plus farseer, and in the tourneys when I fight the only tool that uses this 5+ flyer spam, I can do well.

Can is the key word. If the turns are off, or my dice hate me, I can't do a damn thing against him. I've barely won and completely been tabled by this asshat.

The best thing to do is to simply have lots of shots, and luck.

For guard, vendettas will eviscerate them. If you don't want your own fliers, one word: hydras.

If you don't want either of those, you can still have some success with BiD on ogryn (watch out for those death rays, though), and I've taken down a necron flier with a primaris psyker's lightning arc (2D6 S6 twin-linked shots are likely going to do some damage).

I've also taken fliers down with meltaguns. Yeah, you need to have a lot of them, but with S8 and Ap1, when you do hit, you're likely just blowing the vehicle out of the sky in a single shot.

Drop pod build and hug your opponent's table edge. Preferably with scout homers. You've got your whole army to deal with barges and wraith, and due to flier rules scythes can't shoot you.

That's what I try to do with eldar- by turbo boosting turn one. I see no reason marines can't do it.

For me:

Park three units of Tankbustas or Lootas on a Skyshield and smile as burning croissants fall from the sky?

Ork BS isn't harmed much by being snap shots


For the OP:

Wait until flakk missiles come available, then use those.

The SM fliers aren't bad. They aren't OMFG Valks or Necrons fliers, to be sure, but they pack a lot of punch, and accurate punch at that..

DE struggle a bit more. Scythes will shrug off razorwings, and Voidravens are both spendy and low on firepower vs fliers. I have a really hard time with me DE vs Cron skyfleets

IG: 3x Vendettas and maybe a Hydra squadron. Will easily take them out.

BA: 3x Storm Ravens. Should be able to take down 3-5 a turn.

SM: 3x Storm Talons and Telion on a Quad Gun. Not as good as the above, but that's the best they can do without allies.

As witnessed in the chaos dex flak missiles are on the way. So let the necron player win for now, but laugh knowing soon all those $60 dollar models will be useless.

GW is just ramping up the flyer builds temporarily for sales, balance shall soon return.

Did you just say that balance would return??

When did 40K ever have it in the first place ?

Since a lot of us will be trogging along without an update for another decade, just like last time.. (Orks haven't had an update since 2008, and waited a loooong damn time for that one. DE waited even longer, and won't be getting a redo for years now )

**minirant ends**

My DE will always struggle against spammed vehicles. It's their lot. They ARE hell on wheels for killing those outside the tincans though

My Orks do just fine against flyers without Flakk missiles, which they won't get anyway come the new codex

 Loricatus Aurora wrote:
What sort of weapons can they take? Not familiar w necron codex.

Could infantry hide in say raiders or fortress?

Just an FYI, necron flyers don't have weapon options. You either get the one with the death ray or you don't. Both have TL Tesla Destructors.

Kevlar wrote:
As witnessed in the chaos dex flak missiles are on the way. So let the necron player win for now, but laugh knowing soon all those $60 dollar models will be useless.

GW is just ramping up the flyer builds temporarily for sales, balance shall soon return.

This!

This is the reason I have not bought any flyers...

Several of you have described a drop pod-based deployment maneuver - dropping near or specifically 6-8" from their table edge and spreading out in order to block their movement or ...

I'm afraid I'm not picturing this properly and I'm wanting to understand what you're suggesting.

These lists also have the best chance of killing whatever they have on the board T1 melta a bastion and see if the contents can survive.

Remember that part where you can't target an unoccupied building, and the HQ deploys behind the bastion, not inside it?

ElSmacko wrote:
Several of you have described a drop pod-based deployment maneuver - dropping near or specifically 6-8" from their table edge and spreading out in order to block their movement or ...

I'm afraid I'm not picturing this properly and I'm wanting to understand what you're suggesting.

Necron fliers are stuck in Zoom mode, meaning they have to move a minimum of 18" per turn. They also can't rotate after moving, and have to arrive through reserves.
So you stand on their table edge, they fly in on turn 2 and are forced to zoom right past you. That saves you a turn of getting shot at by those nasty tesla destructors.

That's the idea anyway. I would think they could still fly on diagonally from the corner and get a decent line of sight over most of their table edge though.

Arson Fire wrote:

ElSmacko wrote:
Several of you have described a drop pod-based deployment maneuver - dropping near or specifically 6-8" from their table edge and spreading out in order to block their movement or ...

I'm afraid I'm not picturing this properly and I'm wanting to understand what you're suggesting.

Necron fliers are stuck in Zoom mode, meaning they have to move a minimum of 18" per turn. They also can't rotate after moving, and have to arrive through reserves.
So you stand on their table edge, they fly in on turn 2 and are forced to zoom right past you. That saves you a turn of getting shot at by those nasty tesla destructors.

That's the idea anyway. I would think they could still fly on diagonally from the corner and get a decent line of sight over most of their table edge though.

You know they CAN deep strike, right?

And yes, they can come in at any angle they desire, so long as their movement fulfills the zooming prerequisite and the model is fully on the table and more than 1" from enemies.

1. Go 2nd.
2. Wipe off all ground forces
3. Pull out FAQ and laugh evilly.

Seems 6th edition came with a not-so-liberal side of naive based on many of the posts here.

Kevlar wrote:
As witnessed in the chaos dex flak missiles are on the way. So let the necron player win for now, but laugh knowing soon all those $60 dollar models will be useless.

GW is just ramping up the flyer builds temporarily for sales, balance shall soon return.

Do you really believe that 5 Marines on foot being able to take 4 S7 akyfire missiles is going to make them useless? Necron flyers should be able to easily blast those Havocs away before they get a chance to fire.

And if having a counter to something in the meta game made something useless, then there would be no armies at all, as everything has a counter (several usually in fact). Guess everything is useless then

For marines you can have three talons w twinlinked lascannons and assault cannons at 150 points

Also with an ADL w Icarus lascannon i would assume as soon as you roll a hit the opponent will throw evade so even if flyer survives his shooting is now snapfire that turn

So thats 4 great platforms dor taking them down.

Otherwise its twinlinked magic whether razors, raiders, dreds and so on while you focus on cleaning up whatever they have on the ground.

Is it just me, or is most of what is suggested pretty easy for the necron flyers to kill?

I think some people are being too optimistic about the counters, and a lot of it depends on who shoots first.

-Matt

Play "counts as" chaos space marines and take 15 flakk havoc missile launchers!

Haha I'm just going to love it seeing people play "counts as" chaos after half a decade of chaos players having to play "counts as" loyalists.

Agree

Also 3 stormtalons cost virtually same as 10 terminators w 2 CML

Might be a case of taking some air defence, such as adl, and just accepting damage for now while you try and gang up on their diminished troops choices

Kevlar wrote:
Play "counts as" chaos space marines and take 15 flakk havoc missile launchers!

- Illegal. Can't have more than 12.

- Repeating basically the same thing you said in your last post doesn't put the point across any more than it might have been already.

After a week of wonder why flying Necrons are a french bakery, I finally realized they looked like croissants.