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Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut




A random ditch next to a zoo (self imposed exile)

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
 Muhr wrote:
 Deadshot wrote:


Emps nearly got killed by a bigass ork warlord. At least that's what I hear, just saying.


Oh that was just a fluke occurence. He was probably letting the ork do that so he could be all "ooh ooh Horus help me!" because he wanted to test Horus' loyalty. Think about it: there is NOO WAY that any oversized green gobbo would be able to seriously threaten a being that can, with worrying ease, make Magnus, the second most powerful psyker in the entire galaxy, have a seizure in his seat just by merely...looking at him. No way!

And anyway, it was probably Mat Ward who wrote that so it doesn't really count anyway because...it just doesn't.


No, really, that's part of the oldest, most solid pieces of fluff in the game. On the other hand, that was the largest known Waagh! ever enocountered (second largest ever these days). Every Ork in that Waaagh! was convinced that their Boss was the biggest and meanest fether around, so he was. For someone who relies on psychic powers to kill people (like the Emperor), that'd make him a very dangerous foe, whereas Horus could simply smash the guy's face in. The Emperor was only human body-wise after all.


He still managed to kick Leman of the Russ' head in when they met. And on another occasion (this is said in the Space Wolf book. I can't remember what it's called but it was the last one in the Ragnar Blackmane series) that Leman Russ got really lippy with The Big E one day and the Big Guy gave Leman a clip round the ear hole and knocked him out for three days so...I don't think he was merely human in physical terms. He was the single most mighty warrior the human race had ever known. Even the primarchs were inferior to him. It's said that Sanguinius, even at the height of his powers, would not have stood a chance against Horus. But the Big E did it with just one thought. He only got torn apart because Horus capitalized on the fact that The Big E was hesitant to harm His son..

"How many people here have telekenetic powers raise my hand" - The Emperor, The council of Nikae

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The Boss was protected from the psychic powers by the Orks, but you have to remember this: Aragorn could beat a troll in Lord of The Rings, however, a troll got into the right space, at the right time, and being 2-3 times the size of the Emperor, what was he supposed to do? The greatest warrior can get in a bad situation where a lesser, but still mighty warrior can help him out, not that the Emperor couldn't take the boss 1 on 1 with nothing else happening, but probably that warboss jumped to the opportunity to take the Emperor down.

 
   
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Sorry if I didn't mention this clearly at the start but there are NO Tyranids, chaos or tau. It is the 4 mentioned armies in there prime (hypothetical for Orks). So everyone mentioning quotes like united Orks cant lose if 100% united and if the Imperium were only fighting one enemy they would win easy are invalid because those are from the 40k universe (and the IoM is in a 1v1v1v1 not a 1v1) where as these Necrons and Eldar are much stronger in this little scenario. To clarify there are NO Chaos, C'tan, Old ones, Tau, Tyranids or any other past, present or future major race / faction except the four mentioned!

 
   
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Zande4 wrote:
Sorry if I didn't mention this clearly at the start but there are NO Tyranids, chaos or tau. It is the 4 mentioned armies in there prime (hypothetical for Orks). So everyone mentioning quotes like united Orks cant lose if 100% united and if the Imperium were only fighting one enemy they would win easy are invalid because those are from the 40k universe (and the IoM is in a 1v1v1v1 not a 1v1) where as these Necrons and Eldar are much stronger in this little scenario. To clarify there are NO Chaos, C'tan, Old ones, Tau, Tyranids or any other past, present or future major race / faction except the four mentioned!


Still the Imperium. My mates dad says it's so and he's a scientist.

"How many people here have telekenetic powers raise my hand" - The Emperor, The council of Nikae

"Never raise your hand to your children, it leaves your midsection unprotected" - The Emperor

"My father had a profound influence on me, he was a lunatic" - Kharn 
   
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 Muhr wrote:
Zande4 wrote:
Sorry if I didn't mention this clearly at the start but there are NO Tyranids, chaos or tau. It is the 4 mentioned armies in there prime (hypothetical for Orks). So everyone mentioning quotes like united Orks cant lose if 100% united and if the Imperium were only fighting one enemy they would win easy are invalid because those are from the 40k universe (and the IoM is in a 1v1v1v1 not a 1v1) where as these Necrons and Eldar are much stronger in this little scenario. To clarify there are NO Chaos, C'tan, Old ones, Tau, Tyranids or any other past, present or future major race / faction except the four mentioned!


Still the Imperium. My mates dad says it's so and he's a scientist.


In that case it would be the Eldar or the Necrons. According to the new BL books on the subject, the Emprah was around before the fall of the Eldar. Yet he posed no threat...none what so ever...to the Eldar at their height.

" The eldar were a proud and arrogant people, confident in their superiority and justifiably dismissive of alien barbarians. Their technological and cultural achievements excelled those of all other races, and in their hubris none amongst them doubted that this state of affairs would continue indefinitely. In many ways the Eldar had good reason for such conceit, for no other race had posed a serious threat to their wealth and stability for countless millenia. The doom of the Eldar, when it came, took a form far more subtle and dangerous than that of an invasion."

Codex Eldar, Page 4, 2nd paragraph.

That paragraph tells you all you need to know. We know the Emperor was around then. We also know that the Orks were too. We know that the Necrons were also around.

Since the Necrons basically dissappeared, they posed no threat to the Eldar but at full power, they would. But not the Orks or the Humans. The Eldar had no illusions that their power was such that humans and orks posed no serious threat, no matter how powerful they became.

It took the birth of a Chaos God to destroy the Eldar. No other race was or is powerful enough at their height except for MAYBE necrons. And even they had a tough time.

It wasn't until the Eldar were almost completely wiped out (by their own hand I would like to point out) that mankind or orks even became a threat to them.

So yes, Eldar as they are now would die if the Imperium concentrated their full might against them...but no way vs the full powered Eldar empire at it's height.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2012/10/06 06:22:06


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from the Renegades supplement for Epic Space Marine, page 54-55
 
   
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 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
 Muhr wrote:
 Deadshot wrote:


Emps nearly got killed by a bigass ork warlord. At least that's what I hear, just saying.


Oh that was just a fluke occurence. He was probably letting the ork do that so he could be all "ooh ooh Horus help me!" because he wanted to test Horus' loyalty. Think about it: there is NOO WAY that any oversized green gobbo would be able to seriously threaten a being that can, with worrying ease, make Magnus, the second most powerful psyker in the entire galaxy, have a seizure in his seat just by merely...looking at him. No way!

And anyway, it was probably Mat Ward who wrote that so it doesn't really count anyway because...it just doesn't.


No, really, that's part of the oldest, most solid pieces of fluff in the game. On the other hand, that was the largest known Waagh! ever enocountered (second largest ever these days). Every Ork in that Waaagh! was convinced that their Boss was the biggest and meanest fether around, so he was. For someone who relies on psychic powers to kill people (like the Emperor), that'd make him a very dangerous foe, whereas Horus could simply smash the guy's face in. The Emperor was only human body-wise after all.



Hmmmm ya know i remember Blackfang kicking the ass of at least 3 primarchs before the Emperor got involved and finished Warboss Blackfang.... But I wonder if The Beast was even bigger and more killy than him as well... *shudders to think about it*

For those who are wondering about my reference of an Ork warboss kicking 3 primarchs asses ... http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Gharkul_Blackfang#.UG_P5VGD-uI

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/10/06 06:30:45


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The Necrons at their height, would defeat any of the choices here.

Afterall, the Eldar and the Orks were created by the Old ones to fight the Necrons, and the Old ones still lost.

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Krieg! What a hole...

 Big Mek Wurrzog wrote:
[
Hmmmm ya know i remember Blackfang kicking the ass of at least 3 primarchs before the Emperor got involved and finished Warboss Blackfang.... But I wonder if The Beast was even bigger and more killy than him as well... *shudders to think about it*

For those who are wondering about my reference of an Ork warboss kicking 3 primarchs asses ... http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Gharkul_Blackfang#.UG_P5VGD-uI


The Beast waagh was bigger than Blackfang or so I heard and it was wiped out in m36, so no Primarchs or Emperor.

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Snookie gives birth to Heavy Gun drone squad. Someone says they are overpowered. World ends.

 
   
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Roadkill Zombie wrote:
 Muhr wrote:
Zande4 wrote:
Sorry if I didn't mention this clearly at the start but there are NO Tyranids, chaos or tau. It is the 4 mentioned armies in there prime (hypothetical for Orks). So everyone mentioning quotes like united Orks cant lose if 100% united and if the Imperium were only fighting one enemy they would win easy are invalid because those are from the 40k universe (and the IoM is in a 1v1v1v1 not a 1v1) where as these Necrons and Eldar are much stronger in this little scenario. To clarify there are NO Chaos, C'tan, Old ones, Tau, Tyranids or any other past, present or future major race / faction except the four mentioned!


Still the Imperium. My mates dad says it's so and he's a scientist.


In that case it would be the Eldar or the Necrons. According to the new BL books on the subject, the Emprah was around before the fall of the Eldar. Yet he posed no threat...none what so ever...to the Eldar at their height.



The Emperor also didn't abandon the whole "guide humantiy from the shadows as a series of wise men" approach until the Age of Strife, which was after the Fall. It's unlikely that the Eldar knew about him even being there.

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The Necrons would lose against Orks, their logic engines wouldn't be able to fathom the randomness that is the orks.

Eldar would lose to Necrons. The latter have greater technology, resilience, knowledge and tactical prowess. The Eldar at the height of their powers were powerful but not so powerful as to wipe out the Necrons. They beat the C'tan, who beat the Eldar.

IoM would lose to orks on numbers and psychic potential alone. The sheer psychic backwash of 100% united Ork race, which is including all those found outside the galaxy (ie, everywhere in the universe! Codex orks, Pg 18) , who reproduce upon death unless the lanet is Exterminated. So kill one ork, get back two or three within a few years. Plus, the IoM won't have time to replace casualties. Space Marines take 11-16 years to be ready for implants, and another good, half dozen to pass basic training. Then scout training where they get butchered.
Custodes take even longer, Primarches are a one-off, and if the Emperor died then the armies would just lose all hope.

Eldar would probably just die because of the psychic backwash.

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In their Prime?

It'd be close, but I'd have to vote for Necrons.

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 Bobthehero wrote:
 Big Mek Wurrzog wrote:
[
Hmmmm ya know i remember Blackfang kicking the ass of at least 3 primarchs before the Emperor got involved and finished Warboss Blackfang.... But I wonder if The Beast was even bigger and more killy than him as well... *shudders to think about it*

For those who are wondering about my reference of an Ork warboss kicking 3 primarchs asses ... http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Gharkul_Blackfang#.UG_P5VGD-uI


The Beast waagh was bigger than Blackfang or so I heard and it was wiped out in m36, so no Primarchs or Emperor.


He was defeated and his Waaagh scattered, however Blackfang required 3 primarchs, the custodies and the Emperor to halt damages. It's highly suggested the Beast was worse which makes me wonder how much BIGGER and KILLIER was The Beast? He must have been killed by something like Oribtal bombardment or the like because the Astartes didn't yet exist and something this powerful begs for epic proportions. Blackfang to my understanding was twice the size of Ghazzy who is already confirmed 35 feet tall (aka Dreadnought sized, though his model is deceiving).

Anyone else as interested in the Beast as I've become now that it's been mentioned?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/10/08 11:53:37


" I don't lead da Waagh I build it! " - Big-Mek Wurrzog

List of Da Propahly Zogged!!!
 
   
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Roadkill Zombie wrote:
Eldar and Necrons win this one easily. The Eldar had not seen a threat to their power in millions of years until after the fall. The Emperor was around then...no threat.

Same with the Orks...no threat. Pretty much the only race that had even threatened the Eldar at the height of their power was the Necrons. Everyone else was considered a minor player.


I was under the impression that the Fall occured just before the Great Crusade began? Is that just my memory playing up because I remember reading somewhere that they had changed that...

Iranna.

 
   
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]
 Big Mek Wurrzog wrote:
Anyone else as interested in the Beast as I've become now that it's been mentioned?


You're not the only one mate haha.

Anyway.
I'd have to vote Orks as well.

The Imperium is pretty big and bad, and has a whole lot of guns. But like everyone's been saying, you can only shoot so many rounds before you run out and then it's game over once a literal tidal wave of krumpin' hits your gunline and everything from there forth is slaughtered under a billion angry Orks.
Ohh, and last time there was a WAAGH! big enough to literally threaten the galaxy, it too 3 FULL legions of astartes and the Emperor himself to stop them. And that wasn't even ALL the Orks in the known Galaxy.

The Necrons are pretty bad*** too, but considering (currently) Imotehk, who is considered one of the greatest tactician the galaxy has EVER known, can't even quite grasp how to get a step ahead of them Green menaces, I can only see them having trouble after a bit.

The Eldar are pretty fantastic too, which can't be forgotten, at the height of their power they weren't challenged by any race in the galaxy. But at that time all the Orks weren't united in a cause to murder every living thing that stood in their way to consider being worried about.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2012/10/08 17:05:17


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Krieg! What a hole...

 Big Mek Wurrzog wrote:

the Astartes didn't yet exist




What? Yes they did, his Waagh was wiped out 6000 years or so after the Horus Heresy, pretty much byt the weakened Imperium we all know.

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 Iranna wrote:
Roadkill Zombie wrote:
Eldar and Necrons win this one easily. The Eldar had not seen a threat to their power in millions of years until after the fall. The Emperor was around then...no threat.

Same with the Orks...no threat. Pretty much the only race that had even threatened the Eldar at the height of their power was the Necrons. Everyone else was considered a minor player.


I was under the impression that the Fall occured just before the Great Crusade began? Is that just my memory playing up because I remember reading somewhere that they had changed that...

Iranna.


From what I recall it was the fall that blew away the storms and allowed the Crusade to even happen. Without the fall, no crusade could have happened.

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 Hunterindarkness wrote:


From what I recall it was the fall that blew away the storms and allowed the Crusade to even happen. Without the fall, no crusade could have happened.


Yeah, that´s what I meant - so something like the 29th millenium?

Iranna.

 
   
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From what I can find so far, looks like M30 or late M29 for the fall. It seems to be very early in M30, I am guessing that is the "event" itself. The Crusade looks like ti started 800 M30

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 Muhr wrote:
That's around 2 MILLION Astartes!
Yeah, about that...
   
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1068SCP wrote:
 Muhr wrote:
That's around 2 MILLION Astartes!
Yeah, about that...


Most games have this issue, look at the undersized armies in say battletech.

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 Bobthehero wrote:
 Big Mek Wurrzog wrote:

the Astartes didn't yet exist




What? Yes they did, his Waagh was wiped out 6000 years or so after the Horus Heresy, pretty much byt the weakened Imperium we all know.


To my understanding the Astartes existed once the Emperor rose to power the quote that backs this statment up comes from the well documented origins of space marines (i am going to paraphrase since i don't own the codex)

"Besieged by enemies on all sides, and wracked by heretics and mutants from within the IOM has stood strong against these threats for time beyond remembering but it was in the Emperor's Eternal Wisdom that he foresaw need for soldiers unlike any others, his angels of death who would have the best weapons, training and iron clad will for they would bring his will and they would know no fear"

In other words the Emperor is father to the Primarchs and space marines are made from their primarch's geneseed or bastard version there of. The Beast existed well before the rise of the Emperor, thus before space marines... so thus the beast had to be a monsterous Ork capable of leading armies strong enough to threaten the Imperium after the Eldar's Fall... though to my own counter thesis i suppose that crushing the IOM before the emperor made it what it was wouldn't actually have been as impressive as it sounds so maybe not... maybe Black Fang was the baddest of the bad warbosses... it just doesn't make alot of sense since they constantly reference "The Beast" as being the worst thing the Imperium faced besides Horus for terms of their continued existence (keep it mind this isn't saying that nids, cron or whatever race tickles you in such a way you enjoy it isn't dangerous today).

Thoughts... opinions? If I am wrong I am wrong but it was always my understand the Marines didn't exist till the Emperor Declared their need to exist and protect the Imperium properly.

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The great crusade kicked off in M30 with space marine Legions. The Beast hit the IoM in 544.M32 . That was well after space marines were around.

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 Hunterindarkness wrote:
The great crusade kicked off in M30 with space marine Legions. The Beast hit the IoM in 544.M32 . That was well after space marines were around.


strange why black fang was the greatest victory during the Emperor's reign then.... and Blackfang took on 3 primarchs, the emperor and 1000 custodes

But the beast is said to nearly destroy the Imperium of Man, you'd figure this fight would have been noted since it endangered so much even C'tan Dragon wasn't this bad though the Emperor did find himself pushed harder.

Then again, this is GW we are talking about... their fluffl is counter intuitive sometimes

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/10/11 04:36:58


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Krieg! What a hole...

He had 100 000 orks with him.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/10/11 04:51:23


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 Bobthehero wrote:
He had 100 000 orks with him.


That was blackfang's personal body guard of nobz yes, it wasn't his entire waaaagh not buy a long shot that would go down as the smallest waaagh in all of 40k if it was

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Krieg! What a hole...

You made it sound like it took 1000 Custodes, 3 primarchs and the Emperor to bring down one Ork tho, was just clarifying that.

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I'd love to say Orks just to sheer number and how hard a planet struggles to really clear them out. (Spores etc.) and the simple fact that dey is da best at krumpin.

Although my money would be on the Necrons or failing that Eldar. I don't think the IoM would be able to compete even with the Primarch's and the Emperor.

I'd imagine at the end of days when Necrons/Eldar succeeded, that the Emperor and maybe some Primarchs would be alive but in hiding.

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 Rysaer wrote:
I'd love to say Orks just to sheer number and how hard a planet struggles to really clear them out. (Spores etc.) and the simple fact that dey is da best at krumpin.

Although my money would be on the Necrons or failing that Eldar. I don't think the IoM would be able to compete even with the Primarch's and the Emperor.

I'd imagine at the end of days when Necrons/Eldar succeeded, that the Emperor and maybe some Primarchs would be alive but in hiding.


supposedly when the galaxy is doomed the primarch and various companies they took with them to declare crusades will re-emerge for the final battle. Supposedly this setting might take place when all of the emperor's descendants are slain and his soul is able to move into the last child and thus reborn is the emperor and the galaxy trembles as Mankind renews it's technology, perfects warp travel and the warp itself becomes a slaughter ground as the Emperor and all his devoured psykers is only stronger than he was as his power had to grow to delay his envitable death upon the golden throne rather than just maintain (think of it like a candle which is growing longer each day and then that entire candle is recreated after it finally burns out [so hundreds of feet tall] dumb analogy but it works.)

I doubt this moment in 40k will ever come to pass but it is the supposed ace in the hole should the IOM begin to collapse at a rapid rate from something like chaos.


Course this is assuming the High lords of terra aren't keeping the Emperor imprisoned after 10,000 years since all of society teeters on the astronomicon and his awakening would be many branches of the Imperium would be purged.

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