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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/10/07 19:35:38
Subject: Typhus and zombie cultists
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Camouflaged Zero
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liturgies of blood wrote:Minx wrote: juraigamer wrote:Why does not one realize that everything for cultists beyond their basic default model is listed under "options" and that if you take typhus, you cannot take any "options"?
Probably because people are dumb. Or haven't read/don't have the book. Maybe both.
Taking Typhus and purchasing options for your cultist units is a valid choice. But thanks for assuming the worst for everyone else...
Is it? It doesn't look to be.
If it says no options and the codex is written anything like the BA codex then you are out of luck with that assertion.
There are no extra rules for Typhus regulating the options for cultists and you don't have to nominate a cultist unit as zombies. So, upgrading your cultists while fielding Typhus is valid.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/10/07 19:42:12
Subject: Re:Typhus and zombie cultists
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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GameFreak975 wrote: Why would there be the clarifying statement of "any guns are used strictly for the purposes of clubbing their victims to death" if you cannot have guns in the unit any way?
You miss the point that the basic cultist comes with a gun.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/10/07 19:53:05
Subject: Re:Typhus and zombie cultists
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Camouflaged Zero
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Fragile wrote:GameFreak975 wrote: Why would there be the clarifying statement of "any guns are used strictly for the purposes of clubbing their victims to death" if you cannot have guns in the unit any way?
You miss the point that the basic cultist comes with a gun.
They are also armed with a ccw. So, how many attacks does a zombie get?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/10/07 19:58:07
Subject: Typhus and zombie cultists
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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The rule says they are armed with a single CCW, so whatever is on their profile + normal bonuses.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/10/07 20:37:37
Subject: Typhus and zombie cultists
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Blood Angel Terminator with Lightning Claws
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Minx wrote: liturgies of blood wrote:Minx wrote: juraigamer wrote:Why does not one realize that everything for cultists beyond their basic default model is listed under "options" and that if you take typhus, you cannot take any "options"?
Probably because people are dumb. Or haven't read/don't have the book. Maybe both.
Taking Typhus and purchasing options for your cultist units is a valid choice. But thanks for assuming the worst for everyone else...
Is it? It doesn't look to be.
If it says no options and the codex is written anything like the BA codex then you are out of luck with that assertion.
There are no extra rules for Typhus regulating the options for cultists and you don't have to nominate a cultist unit as zombies. So, upgrading your cultists while fielding Typhus is valid.
I agree that it is valid, but you went out of your way to fix another poster's post simply because he said Cultists vs. Zombies. It was pretty obvious he meant zombies in his original post and not Cultists.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/10/07 20:43:32
Subject: Re:Typhus and zombie cultists
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Furious Raptor
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Example; Chavs are youths that have the bling, vicky pollard, and asbo special rules, and cannot purchase options. As you can see, this uses plurals to describe the attributes of an indivdual chav. This is my interpretation of what's written and I'm going to stick with it but I understand if you disagree and I have no problem with that. I do however still think that my argument is valid.
-KitKat
Your argument isn't valid because even if true, it doesn't refute the point you're arguing against. Even if you believe that the rule "Plague Zombies ... cannot purchase options" means that individual plague zombies cannot purchase options, that doesn't change the fact that it also prohibits any unit called "Plague Zombies" from purchasing options as a unit. Again, if the language of the rule said "no individual plague zombie may purchase options" or even "no plague zombie may purchase options" then I think you'd have a point. There's no unit called plague zombie. There is a unit called plague zombies. So a rule that specifically states "Plague Zombies ... cannot purchase options" prohibits that unit from purchasing options. And that rule applies regardless of the order of operations. If you put down a unit of more than 10 plague zombies, it doesn't matter what order you made the selections that led to you putting those models on the table, you're still attempting to play with an invalid unit per the rule.
To take this even further, I went to the Friar Lane store in Notts to ask one of the playtesters mentioned on P.2 of the codex his perspective. His opinion was that they could be upgraded to 35, cosidering he playtested the codex I am willing to take his definition.
-KitKat
This appeal to authority argument you're attempting fails because the person whose authority you're appealing to has no authority. He didn't write the rule. His ruling is binding on noone. He has no more expertise in interpreting rules than you or I. I don't care how your playtester buddy interpreted the rules any more than I'd care how David Beckham might interpret them if you called him up. This is just another version of the "I called up GW's rules hotline and they said..." or "I talked to a manager at the GW store and he said..." argument that consistently fails to persuade. If I called up a playtester and he told me that Plague Zombies in the new codex have 3+ armor saves, would that be persuasive evidence that Plague Zombies have 3+ armor saves, despite clear unambiguous language to the contrary in the codex?
P.S. The next time you run into your playtester buddy, smack him in the back of the head for not telling GW how absolutely terribad mutilators are. Thanks!
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Willydstyle wrote:Giantkiller, while those were very concise and logical rebuttals to the tenets upon which he based his argument... he made a post which was essentially a gentlemanly "bow out" from the debate, which should be respected.
GiantKiller: beating dead horses since 2006. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/10/07 21:31:42
Subject: Typhus and zombie cultists
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Camouflaged Zero
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Red Comet wrote:Minx wrote: juraigamer wrote:Why does not one realize that everything for cultists beyond their basic default model is listed under "options" and that if you take typhus, you cannot take any "options"?
Probably because people are dumb. Or haven't read/don't have the book. Maybe both.
Taking Typhus and purchasing options for your cultist units is a valid choice. But thanks for assuming the worst for everyone else...
I agree that it is valid, but you went out of your way to fix another poster's post simply because he said Cultists vs. Zombies. It was pretty obvious he meant zombies in his original post and not Cultists.
It wasn't obvious at all. For all we know he might've assumed that every cultist automatically transforms into a zombie or the special Typhus rules somehow effect all of the cultists. Maybe next time he won't waste time on the general insults and checks his post. Automatically Appended Next Post: GiantKiller wrote:P.S. The next time you run into your playtester buddy, smack him in the back of the head for not telling GW how absolutely terribad mutilators are.
Model-wise i agree, reusing the old obliterator sculpts and then selling two clones in a unit of three, brilliant :(
Rules-wise i don't know yet; so please wait before you smack the play tester
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/10/07 21:40:53
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/10/07 22:20:26
Subject: Typhus and zombie cultists
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Fresh-Faced New User
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On the note on this zombie thing, do this mean that we have in the squad a zombie champion? with and extra attack and ld.
who is also a character, and must by the champion of chaos rule always challenge and have a chance to be transformed into a demon prince?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/10/07 22:23:04
Subject: Typhus and zombie cultists
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Stern Iron Priest with Thrall Bodyguard
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Minx wrote: liturgies of blood wrote:Minx wrote: juraigamer wrote:Why does not one realize that everything for cultists beyond their basic default model is listed under "options" and that if you take typhus, you cannot take any "options"?
Probably because people are dumb. Or haven't read/don't have the book. Maybe both.
Taking Typhus and purchasing options for your cultist units is a valid choice. But thanks for assuming the worst for everyone else...
Is it? It doesn't look to be.
If it says no options and the codex is written anything like the BA codex then you are out of luck with that assertion.
There are no extra rules for Typhus regulating the options for cultists and you don't have to nominate a cultist unit as zombies. So, upgrading your cultists while fielding Typhus is valid.
My bad, I meant to say taking typhus and upgrading in anyway, even taking the option of more men, is not allowed if your cultists are nominated to be zombies.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/10/07 22:25:03
Subject: Typhus and zombie cultists
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Hoary Long Fang with Lascannon
Armageddon, Pry System, Armageddon Sector, Armageddon Sub-sector, Segmentum Solar.
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stefanort wrote:On the note on this zombie thing, do this mean that we have in the squad a zombie champion? with and extra attack and ld.
who is also a character, and must by the champion of chaos rule always challenge and have a chance to be transformed into a demon prince?
Oh that's interesting seeing as hes not allowed a mark. Generic DP, or does it get the zombie rules and become a zombie DP? lol
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/10/07 22:26:46
Subject: Re:Typhus and zombie cultists
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The Conquerer
Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios
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Zombie Prince
it certaintly seems possable, if Cultist Champions have the Champion of Chaos rule.
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Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines
Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
MURICA!!! IN SPESS!!! |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/10/07 22:29:12
Subject: Re:Typhus and zombie cultists
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Fresh-Faced New User
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Grey Templar wrote:Zombie Prince
it certaintly seems possable, if Cultist Champions have the Champion of Chaos rule.
The cultist champion do indeed have the champion of chaos rule
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/10/07 22:34:06
Subject: Re:Typhus and zombie cultists
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The Conquerer
Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios
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Thats it, the final push I needed. I'm starting a Nurgle army.
Now to make up a Zombie Prince for lolz.
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Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines
Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
MURICA!!! IN SPESS!!! |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/10/07 22:58:24
Subject: Re:Typhus and zombie cultists
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Quick-fingered Warlord Moderatus
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jegsar wrote:There are good arguments both ways. Can a Pain Boy take a schoota/rokkit kombie? Another argument could be based on wording where is states exactly what a pain boy is, and is armed with. Pg 38.
Order of operations would be like this.
buy nobs,
buy boss pull for nob A
upgrade nob A to painboy
painboy has the following wargear..
Doks Tools, Urty Syringe.. (but no boss pull)
This is a very important find because this means that you cannot have marks for plague zombies. T4 FNP is so much better then T3 FNP.
This isn't how the Nob entry is though, the Pain Boy isn't given his own entirely separate wargear entry, he shares a wargear entry with the rest of the Nobs and the only exceptional wargear given to him is "Painboy replaces slugga and choppa with dok's tools and 'urty syringe" nothing about that suggests he would lose a bosspole he had previously purchased, the reason he can't have the bosspole is because you can't buy wargear and then make it illegal by future changes to your army list, end of story.
There is no order of operations, you can't have an illegal combination of wargear/options when your models go to table, order doesn't mean a thing.
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Interceptor Drones can disembark at any point during the Sun Shark's move (even though models cannot normally disembark from Zooming Flyers).
-Jeremy Vetock, only man at Games Workshop who understands Zooming Flyers |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/10/07 23:10:01
Subject: Re:Typhus and zombie cultists
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Camouflaged Zero
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Is the Cultist Champion a Chaos Cultist for the purposes of the Plague Zombie rule? And what happens to his special rule Champion of Chaos, since it's not mentioned in the list of special rules for plague zombies?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/10/08 00:48:25
Subject: Typhus and zombie cultists
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Esteemed Veteran Space Marine
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The entire Plague Zombie rule is oddly written. RAW seem contadictory to me since they state that any Cultists units in the army can be nominated...well wouldn't you have to have already purchased and equipped the unit in order for it to be considered part of the army prior to nominating it for the Plague Zombie upgrade?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/10/08 02:07:40
Subject: Re:Typhus and zombie cultists
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The Conquerer
Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios
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Minx wrote:
Is the Cultist Champion a Chaos Cultist for the purposes of the Plague Zombie rule? And what happens to his special rule Champion of Chaos, since it's not mentioned in the list of special rules for plague zombies?
It doesn't say the Champion loses his Champion of Chaos rule, so he can't lose it from becoming a Zombie.
The Zombie rule just says what they gain, and that they can't take Options. Champion of Chaos is not explicitly mentioned that its lost.
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Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines
Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
MURICA!!! IN SPESS!!! |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/10/08 03:38:36
Subject: Re:Typhus and zombie cultists
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Twisting Tzeentch Horror
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Drunkspleen wrote:jegsar wrote:There are good arguments both ways. Can a Pain Boy take a schoota/rokkit kombie? Another argument could be based on wording where is states exactly what a pain boy is, and is armed with. Pg 38.
Order of operations would be like this.
buy nobs,
buy boss pull for nob A
upgrade nob A to painboy
painboy has the following wargear..
Doks Tools, Urty Syringe.. (but no boss pull)
This is a very important find because this means that you cannot have marks for plague zombies. T4 FNP is so much better then T3 FNP.
This isn't how the Nob entry is though, the Pain Boy isn't given his own entirely separate wargear entry, he shares a wargear entry with the rest of the Nobs and the only exceptional wargear given to him is "Painboy replaces slugga and choppa with dok's tools and 'urty syringe" nothing about that suggests he would lose a bosspole he had previously purchased, the reason he can't have the bosspole is because you can't buy wargear and then make it illegal by future changes to your army list, end of story.
There is no order of operations, you can't have an illegal combination of wargear/options when your models go to table, order doesn't mean a thing.
Read the Ork FAQ, Clearly an order of operations is applied.
The reason he doesn't have boss pull is because he BECOMES a Painboy. Check out what they have on Page 38.Just like when becoming a spawn you lose everything, when you become something else you lose everything and gain what that new thing has.
I agree cultists lose every piece of war gear they have when they become zombies and get a freshly dead CCW. However they can still be 35 strong.
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Mess with the best, Die like the rest. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/10/08 03:50:20
Subject: Re:Typhus and zombie cultists
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Quick-fingered Warlord Moderatus
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jegsar wrote:Read the Ork FAQ, Clearly an order of operations is applied.
Yes an order of operations is applied, however, in spite of that you can never create an illegal wargear combination and field it, because your earlier choices can be invalidated and made illegal by later ones The reason he doesn't have boss pull is because he BECOMES a Painboy. Check out what they have on Page 38.
Page 38 doesn't provide a comprehensive list of the things a Painboy is armed with, just like Page 40 doesn't list all the wargear a regular boyz mob is armed with, this argument is a fallacy A painboy in a Nob squad is armed with all the things he is listed as armed with in the Nob Squad wargear entry on Page 98. He swaps 2 specific items for his Doc Tools and Urty Syringe, nothing more, nothing less. Just like when becoming a spawn you lose everything, when you become something else you lose everything and gain what that new thing has. This is only true when you are told you lose everything, which is why becoming a spawn tells you you lose everything. I agree cultists lose every piece of war gear they have when they become zombies and get a freshly dead CCW. However they can still be 35 strong. Except if they are 35 strong you have taken options for the unit, no ifs or buts about it.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/10/08 03:51:12
Interceptor Drones can disembark at any point during the Sun Shark's move (even though models cannot normally disembark from Zooming Flyers).
-Jeremy Vetock, only man at Games Workshop who understands Zooming Flyers |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/10/08 04:08:21
Subject: Re:Typhus and zombie cultists
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Rough Rider with Boomstick
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Drunkspleen wrote:Except if they are 35 strong you have taken options for the unit, no ifs or buts about it.
A quick look at a few of my codex bears this out.
I'm assuming the cultists unit has a default starting size of 10.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/10/08 04:09:33
"Ignorance is bliss, and I am a happy man."
"When you claim to be a purple unicorn, and I do not argue with you, it is not because I agree with you."
“If the iron is hot, I desire to believe it is hot, and if it is cool, I desire to believe it is cool.”
"Beware when you find yourself arguing that a policy is defensible rather than optimal; or that it has some benefit compared to the null action, rather than the best benefit of any action." |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/10/08 10:36:28
Subject: Re:Typhus and zombie cultists
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Camouflaged Zero
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Grey Templar wrote:Minx wrote:
Is the Cultist Champion a Chaos Cultist for the purposes of the Plague Zombie rule? And what happens to his special rule Champion of Chaos, since it's not mentioned in the list of special rules for plague zombies?
It doesn't say the Champion loses his Champion of Chaos rule, so he can't lose it from becoming a Zombie.
The Zombie rule just says what they gain, and that they can't take Options. Champion of Chaos is not explicitly mentioned that its lost.
The rules do n't say they get the mentioned special rules in addition to their previous special rules, and therefore no Champion of Chaos. There is no ruling regarding the Cultist Champion either; can he be nominated as a zombie at all?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/10/08 10:58:23
Subject: Re:Typhus and zombie cultists
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Regular Dakkanaut
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Let's imagine for a moment that you could take 35 zombie units. How many S6 shots would it take to kill that unit?
2+ wounds, so it would take about 42 hits. Assuming 3+ hits, it would take 63 S6 attacks. If you use attacks that are less than S6, it would take a lot more.
You can take 6 troops + Typhus for 1130 points. Thats 210 zombies. To kill 210 zombies it would take 378 S6 attacks. A lot more if you use S5 or less.
Do you have 378 S6 attacks in your armylist?
And then there is the rest of the Chaos list to deal with.
Yea, zombies would be kinda overpowered like that.
They are meant to be taken as groups of 10.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/10/08 11:45:50
Subject: Typhus and zombie cultists
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The Hive Mind
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You're assuming that every army should be able to be tabled.
You shouldn't assume that.
And yes, I can get 378 S6 attacks in 5 turns in a 2k list.
I have 324 in 3 turns.
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My beautiful wife wrote:Trucks = Carnifex snack, Tanks = meals. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/10/08 14:15:42
Subject: Typhus and zombie cultists
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Maddening Mutant Boss of Chaos
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Zombies are trash. Units of 10 are worthless. A unit of 35 is only marginally OK. They can't shoot, can't fight in HTH, can't run and can't go to ground. They are poor at holding objectives too,
A unit of "regular cultists can go to ground in area terrain for a 3+ cover save, which is better than the 5+/5+FNP of the zombie. Not to mention that any decent shooting will take away the Zombies's FNP.
I would argue that to limit them to 10 men is a poor idea for game balance as they don't contribute to your army.
Now if they could take the mark of Nurgle, we would have a whole different issue...
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NoTurtlesAllowed.blogspot.com |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/10/08 14:32:35
Subject: Typhus and zombie cultists
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Fresh-Faced New User
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So we have 10 man squads that may or may not contain a champion that may or may not have the "champion of chaos" rule...
yeah I think a faq on this is in order
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/10/08 16:52:37
Subject: Typhus and zombie cultists
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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As for 10 man size limit I have no opinion at this time.
But for the Cultist Champion, I believe that definitely the unit is allowed to have one.
The rule says to that a Cultist Squad(see page 95 which defines a squad as consisting of 9&1 ) can be nominated to be Plague Zombies and that these Zombies are Cultist with Fearless, FNP and SnP and cannot purchase upgrades.
A Cultist Champion while arguably could be define as an "Upgrade" is most definitely NOT a "Purchased" upgrade and therefor is not limited by the Rule.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/10/08 16:54:59
Subject: Typhus and zombie cultists
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Powerful Phoenix Lord
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40k-noob wrote:As for 10 man size limit I have no opinion at this time.
But for the Cultist Champion, I believe that definitely the unit is allowed to have one.
The rule says to that a Cultist Squad(see page 95 which defines a squad as consisting of 9&1 ) can be nominated to be Plague Zombies and that these Zombies are Cultist with Fearless, FNP and SnP and cannot purchase upgrades.
A Cultist Champion while arguably could be define as an "Upgrade" is most definitely NOT a "Purchased" upgrade and therefor is not limited by the Rule.
Cannot purchase options. If it said upgrades, you'd be able to purchase more cultists.
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Greebo had spent an irritating two minutes in that box. Technically, a cat locked in a box may be alive or it may be dead. You never know until you look. In fact, the mere act of opening the box will determine the state of the cat, although in this case there were three determinate states the cat could be in: these being Alive, Dead, and Bloody Furious.
Orks always ride in single file to hide their strength and numbers.
Gozer the Gozerian, Gozer the Destructor, Volguus Zildrohar, Gozer the Traveler, and Lord of the Sebouillia |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/10/08 16:56:29
Subject: Re:Typhus and zombie cultists
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Furious Raptor
Fort Worth, TX
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Polecat wrote:Let's imagine for a moment that you could take 35 zombie units. How many S6 shots would it take to kill that unit?
2+ wounds, so it would take about 42 hits. Assuming 3+ hits, it would take 63 S6 attacks. If you use attacks that are less than S6, it would take a lot more.
You can take 6 troops + Typhus for 1130 points. Thats 210 zombies. To kill 210 zombies it would take 378 S6 attacks. A lot more if you use S5 or less.
Do you have 378 S6 attacks in your armylist?
And then there is the rest of the Chaos list to deal with.
Yea, zombies would be kinda overpowered like that.
They are meant to be taken as groups of 10.
First, let me say that I completely agree that RAW indicates that you can only have a unit of 10 zombies.
A unit of 35 Zombies are not overpowered. I played a game against BA on Saturday where my opponent ran two Devastator Squads with Missile Launchers. He fired 3 frag missiles from one group of devs at my unit of 35 zombies. He scored two direct and one deviated hit. All in all, he landed a total of 31 hits (13 models will fit under a blast template) and Frag Missiles are AP5, so they remove my armor save. Now, our group doesn't use Frag Missiles often and we were excited to see how this would play out, so we forgot to roll wounds. I made 10 FNP rolls. I wasn't in cover, so I didn't get the cover save.
Even if we had rolled wounds, a 3+ would have done the job. He would have statistically landed 20 wounds, I would have saved 10, and I would have only lost 10 zombies, reducing my group to 25 instead of the 14 I had left after forgetting to roll wounds. As Zombies can't run, they are moving 6" a turn. I did have a unit of Plague Marines from an immobilized Rhino firing Plasma shots into the Devastators and took 1 of them out (hence the 3 frag missiles instead of 4. Even then, I'd have had maybe 2 turns before I got into assault range with the PM, three or more with the zombies. He would have easily killed them by then.
If you take a Tac Squad with NO upgrades and put them 24" from the zombies, perhaps while defending an objective, they are going to have 4 rounds of firing before the zombies can get close them, assuming that they don't move up to destroy them first. That's 60 shots at full BS (10 at 24", 10 at 18", 20 at 12", and 20" at less than 12, unless a miraculous charge roll is made on the third round) and 20 more snap shots for Overwatch. The zombies charge and get however many attacks are left at Strength and Initiative 3. The Marines are going to hit them first, hitting and wounding on 3+. Between the shots, overwatch, and going first in Assault, they are going to decimate the zombies, even with Fearless and FNP.
Telling me that a unit of 35 zombies is overpowered because they have Fearless and FNP tells me that you don't know what overpowered actually is. It tells me that you haven't played with or against a unit of 35 zombies. Yes, S6 shots will double them out, but just about every weapon out there takes away their 6+ armor save, so factoring that in against the majority of armies' shooting is useless. CC is something completely different, unless you're dealing with Chaos Chain Axes or power weapons.
I'll reiterate, yes, we forgot to roll wounds, so that hurt me. Even if we had rolled wounds, it would have delayed the inevitable.
If an FAQ is given and someone can eventually take 6 units of 35 zombies, lacking the shooting that rules 6th edition is going to hurt you significantly. It limited my ability to tae out his units. Once you get into CC, you're going to be ineffective. You will tarpit units and nothing else. When you're wounding on a 5+ with a single attack, you're not going to win a lot of battles.
With all of that in mind, I do find it hard to believe that it will not be FAQ'd to allow a 35 man unit. If it's FAQ'd to show that RAI is a 10 man unit, no one will play zombies in any kind of remotely competitive game. Even in friendly games, I wouldn't play it as I don't want to waste 2 hours of my time.
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I out with in both 40k and WHFB.
Co-host of the HittingOn3s Podcast
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/10/08 16:57:24
Subject: Typhus and zombie cultists
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The Conquerer
Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios
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40k-noob wrote:As for 10 man size limit I have no opinion at this time.
But for the Cultist Champion, I believe that definitely the unit is allowed to have one.
The rule says to that a Cultist Squad(see page 95 which defines a squad as consisting of 9&1 ) can be nominated to be Plague Zombies and that these Zombies are Cultist with Fearless, FNP and SnP and cannot purchase upgrades.
A Cultist Champion while arguably could be define as an "Upgrade" is most definitely NOT a "Purchased" upgrade and therefor is not limited by the Rule.
I think Upgrades by their very definition have to be optional. A champion is certaintly not an optional thing for a Cultist unit. Just like a Sergeant isn't optional for a Space Marine squad.
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Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines
Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
MURICA!!! IN SPESS!!! |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/10/08 17:13:35
Subject: Re:Typhus and zombie cultists
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Haemonculi Flesh Apprentice
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I think this needs a FAQ desperately, but to mirror what others have said in regard to zombies being OP, consider:
100 bolters are shot at plague marines and then plague zombies in open ground. against the PM 100*4/81= 4.94 kills....Against zombies 100*8/27=29.63 kills....
Its laughable when you look at the numbers, PM still shot for shot, blow for blow take more wounds efficiently then any other unit in the codex, can STILL have 2 SW at only 5 models and are now even more efficient in cc.
Now if you start adding cover to the scenario, obviously the plague marines numbers stay the same (which is still better) while the other numbers get slightly better, like intervening models of soft cover saves 10 more zombies but at that point cultists are better as they can go to ground and with the MoN have a higher toughness which means 100 bolters shooting at MoN cultists in in open ground is 100*2/6=33.33 dead cultists which is worse then zombies but after going to ground with simple cover becomes 100*2/12=16.67 compared to the 20 dead zombies. So without having to purchase typhus and retaining their weapons they are actually better then zombies at holding back field objectives and you avoid the current debate on options.
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