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My views...

1. Would like to see more older troop choices redesigned, but GW has the right approach in that they have focused on doing plastic kits for old metal/finecast kits.

Their best releases this year (Black Knights and Chaos Raptors) are redesigns of old metal kits IMHO.

2. New stuff is logical from a business perspective, but their concepts/designs for new stuff this year has been very hit and miss. Their misses have largely been the obligatory big kits which are starting to look badly thought out and "rushed". Key culprits are the Coven Throne/Mortis Engine, Hurricanum/Luminark and Helldrake.

3. Fantasy and 40K were originally designed as infantry games. I'm not sure all this big stuff is doing the game mechanics any favours to be honest. As Rick Priestly pointed shortly after he left, a 6" long vehicle in a game revolving around 12" ranges kind of skews game play somewhat.

 AlexHolker wrote:
Definitely agree with the OP. And it's not just a line-by-line problem: I'm still annoyed that GW wasted a double-size sprue on limited edition skull-shaped rocks but still can't be arsed to give the Sisters of Battle one measly plastic HQ/Elites/Troops/Fast Attack/Heavy Support kit.

Good, affordable rank-and-file models are a foundation to build on. Neglecting that in favour of stuff nobody ever asked for sucks.

Now hold on one minute!

Yes I said GW should put more into bread and butter troops but that's hardly the same thing as bad mouthing the universally beloved skull-shaped rocks!

Why they're rocks, shaped like skulls! The question is now why did GW make this, the question is why didn't GW make this SOONER?

Seriously if I lived near a GW store (ie on the same continent as one) I'd go in, hold up the latest dinobot/flying vampire chair thing/skull shaped rock and ask "This was a higher priority than battle sisters?"

I doubt it would help but it would be fun.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

timd wrote:


Quote Originally Posted by natfka
via Faeit 212 (a Must Remain Anonymous Source)

Oh, and cultists are getting a plastic box of 10 that comes with 10 sets of auto pistol / ccw arms, 10 autoguns, 2 shotguns, 1 heavy stubber, 1 flamer, 1 grenade launcher, 1 icon (with several top options), 1 power axe, 1 power maul and a bunch of bits to put here and there (such as frag grenades and trophies). Only thing I didn't see was a power sword.

Don't say such things... I'm trying hard to sit this release out.

Nah seriously if true this will make me pretty happy.

 Flashman wrote:
Their misses have largely been the obligatory big kits which are starting to look badly thought out and "rushed". Key culprits are the Coven Throne/Mortis Engine

The thing with the Coven Throne/Mortis Engine is either one would have been absolutely fantastic as a single kit. But there's not enough to differentiate them once you see it as a dual kit. Personally, I love the Coven Throne, and I wouldn't even consider a Mortis Engine, so to me it is a single kit. There's just a lot of leftover bits (and 3 perfectly good Banshees that just need bases which ironically fit really well in a Lahmian army).

 -Loki- wrote:

 Flashman wrote:
Their misses have largely been the obligatory big kits which are starting to look badly thought out and "rushed". Key culprits are the Coven Throne/Mortis Engine

The thing with the Coven Throne/Mortis Engine is either one would have been absolutely fantastic as a single kit. But there's not enough to differentiate them once you see it as a dual kit. Personally, I love the Coven Throne, and I wouldn't even consider a Mortis Engine, so to me it is a single kit. There's just a lot of leftover bits (and 3 perfectly good Banshees that just need bases which ironically fit really well in a Lahmian army).

To be fair, the top sections of both the Coven Throne and Mortis Engine aren't that bad, it's the "spectral" (or bits from other VC sprues lumped together with green stuff) bottom section which was badly executed.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
The hard-cover is hopelessly overpriced, but I actually need it. It's a weird situation I'm in.

Cant you write it off as a business expense?

 Valkyrie wrote:
If we *had* got new CSM, people would be complaing that they have to update their entire troop selection, and why couldn't they use the older models.

Their complaints would be invalid, then. You don't have to update your entire troop selection, and you can use the old models just fine, unless the new CSM got a huge size increase or got put on bigger bases, which is unlikely.

Are there any people out there crying because now they have to update their old raptors? Well...nevermind, bad example, because no one ever used them before. What about when the entire Dark Eldar line got revamped, because I personally never saw a single person complain about "having" to replace their army. It's possible that there were though, and the complaints just got drowned out by all the people (like me) who rushed out and bought 2,000+ points of them (which was a mistake because now they're unplayable, but regardless). The new plastic DE warriors are some of the best rank-and-file troops GW have ever put out, and combined with the fact that they actually had a pretty damn reasonable price point when released makes them possibly my favorite GW kit of all time. The only downside to them is only having one of each special/heavy weapon but this is true of every kit.

So I personally don't buy that crap that everyone would whine if GW did that...from what I've seen it's the exact opposite, a lot of us are practically begging for GW to redo some of these old, necessary kits and are only whining because they keep ignoring us.

Any one else think that a certain court case is affecting new releases. Like dreadnoughts becoming helbrutes, GW not owning that name, and everything in one wave ?

I have heard something similar from a reliable source to that effect as well my friend

Gw seems only to care about selling models and not the game itself, i feel no desire to waste money on a game i find utterly ununplayable
i loathe 40k and fantasy doesnt fare much better.
its fine if they want to make nice things but neglecting the game and other models ive wanted to see redone since i started this but no dice. After 12 years getting the short stick ive given up on gw, completely

 loki old fart wrote:
Any one else think that a certain court case is affecting new releases. Like dreadnoughts becoming helbrutes, GW not owning that name, and everything in one wave ?

Yup I believe that it has had an effect in this case.

I've not been following the ins and outs of a certain court case, can anyone summarize?

I did hear the reason for new, even stupider, paint names is due to the fact the previous supplier owns the names.

Its as if everything was rushed, ill thought out. Best we could do in the time available, so to speak.
even the names hellbrute, helldrake, hellforged etc. anything not ready don't bother releasing it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
I've not been following the ins and outs of a certain court case, can anyone summarize?

I did hear the reason for new, even stupider, paint names is due to the fact the previous supplier owns the names.

Yup true

You could buy ultramarine blue anywhere.

Its as if everything was rushed, ill thought out. Best we could do in the time available, so to speak.
even the names hellbrute, helldrake, hellforged etc. anything not ready don't bother releasing it.

It's better than "Venom thrope" or "Pyrovore".

 ShumaGorath wrote:

Its as if everything was rushed, ill thought out. Best we could do in the time available, so to speak.
even the names hellbrute, helldrake, hellforged etc. anything not ready don't bother releasing it.

It's better than "Venom thrope" or "Pyrovore".

At least it wasn't Poisonthrope and Firevore. Hell- is just extremely basic and is no doubt fast becoming the new Wolf-.

 Flashman wrote:


3. Fantasy and 40K were originally designed as infantry games. I'm not sure all this big stuff is doing the game mechanics any favours to be honest. As Rick Priestly pointed shortly after he left, a 6" long vehicle in a game revolving around 12" ranges kind of skews game play somewhat.

I'd be interested in reading the interview where he said that! If you could shoot me a PM or even post it here I'd appreciate it.

My major beef with the 'new' model releases, as a TSons player, is the whole TSons "upgrade" pack. Especially at Australian prices. I want another two squads for my army, and I've been waiting a year and a half to see if they'd redo the Thousand Sons models, or at least make them not the horrible metal/plastic combo. Hell, I'd have been happy enough with a finecast/plastic combo box. But no, they had to just release the metal bits as a finecast "upgrade" pack, meaning I still have to buy a full ten-man squad of marines to start with, which I'll only use the legs, backpacks and half the torso of.

Which means, if I want another nine-man Sons squad, at GW Aus prices I'd have to pay almost $100 for it.

Feth that.

 Skits wrote:
My major beef with the 'new' model releases, as a TSons player, is the whole TSons "upgrade" pack. Especially at Australian prices. I want another two squads for my army, and I've been waiting a year and a half to see if they'd redo the Thousand Sons models, or at least make them not the horrible metal/plastic combo. Hell, I'd have been happy enough with a finecast/plastic combo box. But no, they had to just release the metal bits as a finecast "upgrade" pack, meaning I still have to buy a full ten-man squad of marines to start with, which I'll only use the legs, backpacks and half the torso of.

Which means, if I want another nine-man Sons squad, at GW Aus prices I'd have to pay almost $100 for it.

Feth that.

TK sons are a pretty popular third party item, there are a lot of smaller miniatures sellers that will sell you significantly better models in tksons styling.

these avatars of war slayers are awesome, if i have to buy all the troops new, itll be them all the way

I looked at the new Codex today...it seems as bland as the last edition...I am going to borrow a copy and give it a proper read though and make my decision then.

I do hope they come out with a new hellbrute model though that is multi-part and poseable...and not only available in the starter box.

 ShumaGorath wrote:

Its as if everything was rushed, ill thought out. Best we could do in the time available, so to speak.
even the names hellbrute, helldrake, hellforged etc. anything not ready don't bother releasing it.

It's better than "Venom thrope" or "Pyrovore".

Tyrannofex. Tervigon.

I really hope that if Kelly gets to do the next Tyranid book, he simply renames those to Malefactor and Exocrine. There was absolutely no reason to make names up for them, the Tyranids already had some biotanks with similar roles in their fluff. They still have a few more as well.

What's wrong with 'Tervigon' exactly?

The rest (Pyrovore, Venomthrope, Tyrannofex) are all terrible, but is there a problem with Tervigon?

timd wrote:
Oh, and cultists are getting a plastic box of 10 that comes with 10 sets of auto pistol / ccw arms, 10 autoguns, 2 shotguns, 1 heavy stubber, 1 flamer, 1 grenade launcher, 1 icon (with several top options), 1 power axe, 1 power maul and a bunch of bits to put here and there (such as frag grenades and trophies). Only thing I didn't see was a power sword.

Given that Cultists can’t get any sort of power weapon, Grenade Launchers or Icons, I think it’s safe to say that this is probably bunk.

Why remake models that many players already have (and therefore are unlikely to purchase more of, regardless of resculpts), when they can make -new- stuff and sell that instead? Don't get me wrong, I want you all to have plastic thousand sons as soon as possible, but I can understand why, when there's an obvious limit to the number of plastic kits released, they'd prioritise the new stuff. What I don't understand is -why- there's a limit on the number of plastic kits dedicated to a single release.

Why remake models that many players already have (and therefore are unlikely to purchase more of, regardless of resculpts), when they can make -new- stuff and sell that instead?

Because a significant portion of GWs purchase base is new players or veteran players making new armies. People updating their already purchased army when a new codex comes out makes up a small percentage of store sales. People aren't as likely to buy into a new army when the core of it looks bad.

Honestly, I don't think any of the CSM troops look dated anymore. Finecast quality is another issue though.

The Warsmith, Emperor's Children Lord, Night Lords Hero are probably the only "dated" models in appearance I think.

 Dr. Delorean wrote:
Why remake models that many players already have (and therefore are unlikely to purchase more of, regardless of resculpts), when they can make -new- stuff and sell that instead? Don't get me wrong, I want you all to have plastic thousand sons as soon as possible, but I can understand why, when there's an obvious limit to the number of plastic kits released, they'd prioritise the new stuff. What I don't understand is -why- there's a limit on the number of plastic kits dedicated to a single release.

I guess it comes back to how many Rhinos did they sell when they remade it? Or how many Cadians when they came out in plastic?

New basic units can bring in more new players and convince older players to upgrade their existing armies.

I have 7x7 units of plague marines, I'd lay even odds GW could get me to replace them if new plastics came out.

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
I guess it comes back to how many Rhinos did they sell when they remade it? Or how many Cadians when they came out in plastic?

Those are both completely different situations. For the Rhino, vehicles weren't super popular until 5th edition. So while they were re-releasing a model a lot of people had (even by its 3rd edition rerelease), there was still a nice market there for people who didn't have one. With the Cadians, that was changing a whole line of metal models to plastic, because the codex needed a mostly plastic 'average' army range, which the Catachans didn't fill.

Chaos Marines last had a mold cut in 4th edition, and while Berzerkers are older, dating back to 3rd edition, neither is a kit Chaos players will not have bought in the past, simply because they were the 2 plastic troops choices, either for conversions or simply to use as-is.

There really isn't a huge market for re-released Chaos Marines or Berzerkers, simply because, as the only two plastic troops choices available, people have enough of them already.

Current chaos players are not GWs market. Period. They already made their purchases, what more they buy is nearly irrelevant. An already sunk player shelling out 150 dollars for some new vehicles is peanuts compared to a new player purchasing $700+ of new items. One happens more often than the other to the point of GW marketing and sales systems being built towards moving product to new users who may never play a game in their life.

Bad looking line troops (CSMs) or boxes that stores won't stock (finecast plagues or any conversion kits) don't help with that.

 Vladsimpaler wrote:

 Flashman wrote:


3. Fantasy and 40K were originally designed as infantry games. I'm not sure all this big stuff is doing the game mechanics any favours to be honest. As Rick Priestly pointed shortly after he left, a 6" long vehicle in a game revolving around 12" ranges kind of skews game play somewhat.

I'd be interested in reading the interview where he said that! If you could shoot me a PM or even post it here I'd appreciate it.

Hmm, I think it was posted by Reds8n about a year ago. I will have a dig around later this evening.

There's plenty of room in the line up for re-sculpts and changes to core troops. I do like a nice flashy toy now and then but updating the older infantry kits especially would be nice.

Especially Sisters.....

Full range cult upgrade sprues to the tune of the DA upgrade sprue would seem to be a great idea as well.

A couple of people have asserted that this is all just part of the GW marketing strategy to appeal to Lil' Timmy and he love of shiny new things, I can't help but agree and concur that CSM's release is incredibly lackluster, especially when compared to DE and 'Crons recent releases.

 SilverMK2 wrote:
There isn't anything - not a single model that I am excited about in this new release. In fact, the new big kits and even the new infantry models are kind of a turn off for my love of CSM.

How can you say that when the new Raptors look so awesome?

I'm really not a Chaos player - at this point I'm not sure I'm even a 40k player anymore; having not yet even bought the 6th rulebook yet - but those new raptors look totally sweet.

The Dragon is iffy, and the new obliterators are lolwut though.

So far as the main point goes, I still like the regular line troops, generally. The one complaint I do have about the new Raptors is they are a little busy, which I guess is the only common theme through all the releases. I kind of like how the plainer troops look when they're all ranked up.