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GoliothOnline wrote:

 Boneblade wrote:

GoliothOnline wrote:
Just as a heads up on this, I believe people are taking things out of context and not reading properly, that these hatred rulings simply affect DAEMONS they are joining... Non Daemons are simply unaffected.

Not sure what in the 'eff you are talking about, man. The rules on Pg 30 of the new Chaos dex are fairly clear, otherwise I'd still be in this thread arguing tooth and nail.

Relevant line:

"An Independent Character with a Mark of Chaos may not join a unit with a different Mark of Chaos."

Nowhere in this section, on this page or in this codex is there a specific restriction (or permission) regarding Daemons one way or another. However, in the Daemons codex & FAQ there are plenty of rules stating why ICs from other Codices / dedicated to other Gods cannot join their units.

1) Abaddon could never join a unit of Chaos Daemons as he is not from Codex: Chaos Daemons
2) Abaddon cannot join any Marked unit from Codex: Chaos Space Marines (6th ed) as he will always have at least 3 different Marks than what they have (as illustrated in posts above)
3) No one who plays with me cares and besides which it'll be FAQ'd to death and hopefully soon.

Last I checked from the older codex rules Mark of Chaos Ascendant, wasn't itself listed as all four marks or for that matter having the name of all four marks... It simply incurred the benefits of all 4 marks =/ As for the Daemon rules several units in the CSM codex have the Daemon rules actually lol for instance, Warp Talons!

It would help if you would bring yourself up to date on the Codexes that are relevant to the debate. Last you checked, was by your own words "the older codex" and as such no longer the official rules for Chaos Space Marines.

I don't have my codex with me, but doesn't it say that an IC may only join a marked unit if it has the same mark, I don't believe there is any rule prohibiting you from joining if you have a different mark, only that you must have the same mark as the squad. Since Abbadon's rule says he has all 4 marks he therefore should be able to join any marked squad.

IC goes to join unit
unit has mark of "____"
does IC have same mark as unit

yes
IC may join

no
IC may not join

that is my impression of the rules.

 CrashCanuck wrote:
I don't have my codex with me, but doesn't it say that an IC may only join a marked unit if it has the same mark, I don't believe there is any rule prohibiting you from joining if you have a different mark, only that you must have the same mark as the squad. Since Abbadon's rule says he has all 4 marks he therefore should be able to join any marked squad.

IC goes to join unit
unit has mark of "____"
does IC have same mark as unit

yes
IC may join

no
IC may not join

that is my impression of the rules.

No, the rule explicitly prohibits if you have a different mark... So since your post is based off of a flawed assumption...

 CrashCanuck wrote:
I don't have my codex with me, but doesn't it say that an IC may only join a marked unit if it has the same mark, I don't believe there is any rule prohibiting you from joining if you have a different mark, only that you must have the same mark as the squad. Since Abbadon's rule says he has all 4 marks he therefore should be able to join any marked squad.

IC goes to join unit
unit has mark of "____"
does IC have same mark as unit

yes
IC may join

no
IC may not join

that is my impression of the rules.

Just read the thread bro.

Find 40k-noobs post. It's like he has a whole flowchart.

I agree that the rule can be interpreted either way, but I do feel that Abaddon will be allowed, through FAQ, to join any squad he wants. He's freakin' Abaddon after all.

My bad, I read it wrong, and as I opened with, didn't have my codex with me, now that I check it is clear that Abby cannot join a unit that has any mark.

Anyone who would try to say Abaddon can not join any marked unit would indeed be a 40k noob.

Kevlar wrote:
Anyone who would try to say Abaddon can not join any marked unit would indeed be a 40k noob.

Or they'd be reading the rules.
Perhaps you'd care to argue with rules instead of insults?

Another variant to the Chaos Ascendant rule: does he let cult troops become troop units?

 SoloFalcon1138 wrote:
Another variant to the Chaos Ascendant rule: does he let cult troops become troop units?

No, he isn't a Lord with a Mark. His rules are explicit as to who he makes Troops.

Kevlar wrote:
Anyone who would try to say Abaddon can not join any marked unit would indeed be a 40k noob.

Abby cannot join a marked unit because it currently breaks the rules set forth in the codex, if that makes me a 40k noob than by default it must make you an old maid.

All fluff nostalgic crap aside Abby cannot lead marked squads atm, this may be FAQ'd it may not. It wouldn't be the first time a writer has made a major goof and noone caught onto it.

I only read the first page, but here is a technicality that might work for Abby:

"An Independent Character with a Mark of Chaos may not join a unit with a different Mark of Chaos."

He doesn't have "a" (singular) different mark, he has more than one different marks than the unit he joins. Normally, the rules for the other units limit how many marks they can have. In abaddon's case, he doesn't meet the criteria to be denied the joining of a marked unit, because he doesn't have "a" mark, he has several. By the most literal definition of the rules, he should be allowed to join marked units. At least until an FAQ tells us otherwise.

Not really - he has all 4 Marks. Three of those 4 are different from the target unit.

Right, but he doesn't have just one. By the most literal definition of the rule, he needs to have a single different mark. More than 1 different mark means that he can join units.

Does 1 = 4? No.

Does Abbadon have "a" (one) mark? No. Therefore, he can join units with marks, because only Independent characters with 1 mark suffer this limitation.

 FoxPhoenix135 wrote:
Right, but he doesn't have just one. By the most literal definition of the rule, he needs to have a single different mark. More than 1 different mark means that he can join units.

Does 1 = 4? No.

Does Abbadon have "a" (one) mark? No. Therefore, he can join units with marks, because only Independent characters with 1 mark suffer this limitation.

Good catch, it seems they built in an exception just for Abaddon!

Glad we can put this one to rest!

Abaddon does not have "a" different mark of chaos, he has three. So by RAW there is nothing keeping him from joining marked units. For all you RAW sticklers!

Kevlar wrote:

 FoxPhoenix135 wrote:
Right, but he doesn't have just one. By the most literal definition of the rule, he needs to have a single different mark. More than 1 different mark means that he can join units.

Does 1 = 4? No.

Does Abbadon have "a" (one) mark? No. Therefore, he can join units with marks, because only Independent characters with 1 mark suffer this limitation.

Good catch, it seems they built in an exception just for Abaddon!

Glad we can put this one to rest!

Abaddon does not have "a" different mark of chaos, he has three. So by RAW there is nothing keeping him from joining marked units. For all you RAW sticklers!

Actually he does have a different mark. In fact he can have a Different mark three times. It's all about how you would like to word a sentence.

Abbadon cannot join a squad of Berserkers because he has a mark of Tzeentch,a Mark of Nurgle,and a Mark of Slanesh.

Note that each of those is a different mark ...

jdjamesdean@mail.com wrote:

Kevlar wrote:

 FoxPhoenix135 wrote:
Right, but he doesn't have just one. By the most literal definition of the rule, he needs to have a single different mark. More than 1 different mark means that he can join units.

Does 1 = 4? No.

Does Abbadon have "a" (one) mark? No. Therefore, he can join units with marks, because only Independent characters with 1 mark suffer this limitation.

Good catch, it seems they built in an exception just for Abaddon!

Glad we can put this one to rest!

Abaddon does not have "a" different mark of chaos, he has three. So by RAW there is nothing keeping him from joining marked units. For all you RAW sticklers!

Actually he does have a different mark. In fact he can have a Different mark three times. It's all about how you would like to word a sentence.

Abbadon cannot join a squad of Berserkers because he has a mark of Tzeentch,a Mark of Nurgle,and a Mark of Slanesh.

Note that each of those is a different mark ...

You are right, it is about how they worded the sentence. He has 3 marks that are different, which is not equal to one mark that is different. RAW in the strictest, most literal meaning; he can join any marked unit he pleases. It is a technicality, but I believe Abaddon being restricted from joining any unit with a mark is not how it was intended. Until an FAQ tells us otherwise, this is a solid case for anybody who supports Abaddon joining marked units. If they wanted to prevent this, they should have given him additional clarification in the rules, but I suspect that they never even considered somebody telling another that Abaddon could not join marked units. If Abaddon is supposed to be subject to this restriction, the rule should read: "An Independent Character with ONE OR MORE Mark(s) of Chaos may not join a unit with a different Mark of Chaos," or, "A unit with a Mark of Chaos can only be joined by Independent Character that has ONLY the same Mark of Chaos in addition to the Independent Character's Wargear and other Options" (or something to that effect)

If he has a mark that is different, the requirements for the rule are met. The fact that he has 3 different marks is irrelevant.

The rule doesn't read the way you're trying to make it read.

It doesnt matter if abbadon has multiple different marks it only matters that the unit he tries joins has a different mark, side stepping this issue nicely as a marked unit that Abbadon could try to join can only have one mark that is different.

That being said the idea that multiple different marks makes any difference is equivalent to telling a 5 year old that they can't have a cookie and them reponding with "You didn't say I couldn't have TWO cookies." Having two cookies doesn't mean you didn't have a cookie. In the same way having multiple different marks doesn't mean you don't have a mark that is different. One different mark is all it takes, more than one is just icing on the cake.

I think the wording is way too condensed to make either option RAW.

"All marks must match" does not explicitly follow from the rules blurb any more than "check squad for mark that abaddon does not have" does.

 Tarrasq wrote:
It doesnt matter if abbadon has multiple different marks it only matters that the unit he tries joins has a different mark, side stepping this issue nicely as a marked unit that Abbadon could try to join can only have one mark that is different.

That being said the idea that multiple different marks makes any difference is equivalent to telling a 5 year old that they can't have a cookie and them reponding with "You didn't say I couldn't have TWO cookies." Having two cookies doesn't mean you didn't have a cookie. In the same way having multiple different marks doesn't mean you don't have a mark that is different. One different mark is all it takes, more than one is just icing on the cake.

I guess you haven't been on YMDC very long. Pedantic nuances like this are what some of the people in this forum thrive on, and the arguments usually boil down to one or two posters exchanging "Is not!" and "Is too!" until a mod locks the thread. It doesn't take long to figure out who those posters are, and to ignore their opinions.

Playing "goldfish" with Abaddon and Noise Marines:

Abaddon: Got any Khorne?
Noise Marines: Go fish.
Abaddon: Damn...

Noise Marines: Got any Slaanesh?
Abaddon: Bitch please, you know I do.
Noise Marines: Hell yeah, come join the party.

Eh? EHH??

Aipoch wrote:
Playing "goldfish" with Abaddon and Noise Marines:

Abaddon: Got any Khorne?
Noise Marines: Go fish.
Abaddon: Damn...

Noise Marines: Got any Slaanesh?
Abaddon: Bitch please, you know I do.
Noise Marines: Hell yeah, come join the party.

Eh? EHH??

LoL

Yeah thats pretty much it. This version of his Mark of chaos asendant actually states he has all the marks so he has all four. Which means he can join any CSM unit regardless of mark because he has em all. I dig the fact that if he goes all DP he ends up hating himself and hates all daemons that are marked, basically becomes emo daemon don.lol.

But the restriction on joining units doesn't ask if the IC has the same mark; it asks if they have a DIFFERENT mark, and says if so, they can't join.

This leaves Abby as technically unable to join any marked unit, as he has three different marks they DON'T have.

 Mannahnin wrote:
But the restriction on joining units doesn't ask if the IC has the same mark; it asks if they have a DIFFERENT mark, and says if so, they can't join.

This leaves Abby as technically unable to join any marked unit, as he has three different marks they DON'T have.

Oh, I thought it was the IC cannot join a unit unless it has the same mark. Not if it has any other mark. Well it makes more sense thinking about it, unmarked ICs should be able to join any unit. That's funny as, poor Don doesn't get to play with the cool kids. lol

Mark of Chaos Ascendant: "....He also has all four Marks of Chaos..."

They should change to: "...He has the benefits of all four Marks of Chaos..."

No, they should just add a line to his rules saying he's allowed to join any Marked unit if that's what they intend.

rigeld2 wrote:
No, they should just add a line to his rules saying he's allowed to join any Marked unit if that's what they intend.

Agreed, however if they didn't want him to lead marked units than it's written proper lol

"If that's what they intend" :-)

Actually from a fluff standpoint it makes sense that he cannot join any marked units. He's worked hard to gain power from all Four, he shouldn't be showing favoritism by joining a squad of a specific God.