Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I know we all complained when Codexes went from having an Armoury page to including all the options in each character's listing but I've just got my new Chaos codex and...

OH MY GOD THIS IS ANNOYING!

The new Chaos book has a proper Wargear page that you need to constantly flick back to when looking to equip your Lords/Champions/Sorcerers. Why did we ever think this was a good idea? It's so ridiculously time-consuming. And since Chaos is the first 6ed Codex, I guess it's here to stay. Suddenly, I much prefer having all the options in front of my face in the listing, even if means reprinting them many times.

Anyone else?

 ArbitorIan wrote:
I know we all complained when Codexes went from having an Armoury page to including all the options in each character's listing but I've just got my new Chaos codex and...

OH MY GOD THIS IS ANNOYING!

The new Chaos book has a proper Wargear page that you need to constantly flick back to when looking to equip your Lords/Champions/Sorcerers. Why did we ever think this was a good idea? It's so ridiculously time-consuming. And since Chaos is the first 6ed Codex, I guess it's here to stay. Suddenly, I much prefer having all the options in front of my face in the listing, even if means reprinting them many times.

Anyone else?

I agree in every way.

It's far easier the older way, I can't stand having to flick through the pages, and the weapon costs become unbalanced after a while.

Be careful what you ask for...

I know we all complained when Codexes went from having an Armoury page to including all the options in each character's listing

I'm amazed anyone could ever have thought that Armoury pages were preferable to listing options.

But it's perhaps a good example of being careful what you wish for . . .

And of course for GW, it saves maybe a page worth of printing in the codex by not duplicating. A fairly trivial saving, perhaps, but it all adds up.

I haven't been around long enough to remember wargear pages but I felt annoyed when paging through my friend's new CSM codex and having to refer to the wargear page over and over again while playing around with list building.

I think the actual thing was that people wanted the variety of items that the Armory represented without the actual armory.

In many cases it was because they pined for specific things that got taken away as books had tons of individual options in the various unit entries but it looked like less since they weren't concentrated in one place.

They have done the same thing in the FW Horus Heresy book. I spent ages trying to find the stats for the AdMech weaponry and options. Annoying!

 pretre wrote:
I think the actual thing was that people wanted the variety of items that the Armory represented without the actual armory.

In many cases it was because they pined for specific things that got taken away as books had tons of individual options in the various unit entries but it looked like less since they weren't concentrated in one place.

To be fair, in many instances things HAD been taken away, because the number of items which certain units had printed in their entries were less than the number of items they had access to in the armoury of the previous codex. That was partially remedied for some armies by their 5th Edition outings, but even C:SM isn't as flexible today as it was in the days of the armoury for some characters and unit leaders.

 endtransmission wrote:
They have done the same thing in the FW Horus Heresy book. I spent ages trying to find the stats for the AdMech weaponry and options. Annoying!

I don't mean to sound off but, really? The Wargear section is by category and in alphabetical order, so when I didn't see "Irrad-cleanser" in there I just paged through to the end of the section and there they were, in the logical place.

+1 disappointed the Armoury has returned

I can hear Tau players everywhere rolling their eyes.

But seriously, ask anyone that still uses that codex how fun the armoury is and there you go.

I like it, then again when I make lists I have a print out of the armory

 Zygrot24 wrote:
I can hear Tau players everywhere rolling their eyes.

But seriously, ask anyone that still uses that codex how fun the armoury is and there you go.

I play Tau too, but I never look at the armoury because I build everything in Battlescribe! Roll on the new CSM battlescribe catalogues!!

 ArbitorIan wrote:

 Zygrot24 wrote:
I can hear Tau players everywhere rolling their eyes.

But seriously, ask anyone that still uses that codex how fun the armoury is and there you go.

I play Tau too, but I never look at the armoury because I build everything in Battlescribe! Roll on the new CSM battlescribe catalogues!!

Hence you have to ask people that actually still use the codex.

My tau friends come over to use Army Builder. I assume the same will be true for the new chaos dex, but that might just be because my friends are really lazy.

I'm a big fan. I live off of options and customization in my codices. Heck, I love the way the Crisis Suit loadouts for Tau work and couldn't imagine it any other way. So it's complicated and requires memorization. Oh well. It's worth it to get that functionality and better gameplay experience.

The more central armouries, the better.

I'm glad to see 'em return.

I tell ya, GW's damned of they do, damned if they don't huh?

All GW codexes are extremely badly composed. I don't really see any difference in either chaos codex, they all are very uncomfortable.

Normally there's 3 or 4 places to look for a description of a game effect (e.g. "mindshackle scarabs" in Necron codex), and many times you have to check all of them if you are not sure what exactly the effect is - unit rule, wargear, or something like that.

Also there's an obscene amount of stupid fluff, mixed in with game effect descriptions. Which is fine if you like fluff, but annoying when you need to find the information in-game.

I even took some time a while ago to highlight the information I don't need in Necron codex. In a sense that I might read it once, but it gets in a way while playing. Here it is:



It would take no effort to just place game rules in one part of the book, and all the yada yadas in another. But the editors does not seem to consider the codex as a playing aid, it's composed solely for "army exploration" time. It's more of a magazine about how cool the army is than a reference about how to play it.

I enjoy the Tau layout. All the game information is on a few continuous pages with fluff and model pictures placed around it. I pick my unit, mark how much it costs, then flip over a page and look at all the options, what they do and their costs in one single place. I felt it was a great way to emphasize the modularity of the Tau battlesuits and Skimmers.

It annoys me to constantly flip through a section of full color art to figure out what my options do for my Space Wolves.

Gnawer wrote:

It would take no effort to just place game rules in one part of the book, and all the yada yadas in another. But the editors does not seem to consider the codex as a playing aid, it's composed solely for "army exploration" time. It's more of a magazine about how cool the army is than a reference about how to play it.

Yes, that's the point. 40k isn't just about playing the game, after all.



As a side-note, I much prefer the Armoury approach than the 5th edition style, but I play Templars so I'm used to the armoury. You learn the stuff by heart after a little while anyway.

I've gotten aroudn this by making a Chaos Points excel sheet with all the unit costs in one worksheet, and all the wargear options on another. One click and i'm there.

Means i can make lists at work without having have my codex open on my desk...which is frowned upon for some reason.

or just get page markers and mark the pages in the ocdex you need - makes flicking around much easier. I haev abotu 20 of the things sticking out of my rulebooK!

I swear it must be.... a CONSPIRACY! Yes, they are trying ro make sure you wear out your codex so you have to buy another one! Hahahhahhahahhahahahahhahahah....

/sarcasm

Seriously? It's a pretty well laid out codex. Unlike all the other ones, the reference section in the back is actually useful. And the rules with special names has been a mainstay of Warhammer forever.

Jeez...

I think the key difference isn't so much the presentation, but the fact that the old armoury system gave you more options. I was dreading the new Tau codex having something like "each Crisis suit comes with a burst cannon and a missile pod, one of which can be swapped for x and the other for y..."

I'm really psyched that they appear to be going back to the old "choose a model and then throw stuff on it" approach, it seems more flexible to me.

BT players have been using the Armory for years and prefer it. Glad its made a comeback.

Jefffar wrote:
I enjoy the Tau layout.

Tau, Black Templar, 4th Edition Marines and 4th Edition Tyranids were the best Codices IMO as far as layout is concerned. Then the Eldar Codex showed up and we've been flipping back and forth to find out rules to one unit ever since.

I actually really liked the Armory. It was one of the coolest things about the old Daemonhunters codex. I was sorry to see it go, even if 50% of the stuff on it was useless. I'm glad to see it return though.

Are they going back to uniform armory prices? Or are those still per unit? Some gear is worth different amounts in different hands...

 Nevelon wrote:
Are they going back to uniform armory prices? Or are those still per unit? Some gear is worth different amounts in different hands...

Different in the same unit even... IIRC the Khorne Berserker Champion pays 8 points for a ChainAxe while his normal brethren pay 3 for the same thing.
edit: although that's not Armory so might not be addressing your point. It's still early and I haven't had any caffeine yet.

 Nevelon wrote:
Are they going back to uniform armory prices? Or are those still per unit? Some gear is worth different amounts in different hands...

kind of.

There is, for example, a melee weaposn list whcih can be accessed by Lords, Sorcerers, Champions (of any unit) - but only if they are in power armour. There is a separate armoury for terminators where the rpices are slightly different but also open opportunies to take specialised weaposn (chain fists for example) or even to pair them up....Dual chain fists for your terminator champion anyone?

The prices for Marks and Icons are listed separaelty in each unit entry as they do vary a lot.

I miss the old DE Armoury. It kinda sucks that Succubi and Haemonculi can't access the big boy toys anymore. Oh and having no bike HQ when I have 5 bike HQ models is irritating as all feth.