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I think a slaaneshi lord with a steed escorted by bikers would make a good companion to disrupt lines alongside mutilators. Especially if you can dominate the midfield and pen as much of them in their deployment. Works with SW!

Wow a unit might require synergy to be effective. What an amazing new concept.

I think it might actually be interesting to drop typhus with a unit of mutilators with mark of nurgle in my enemies back field.

They're infantry, so you could always Infiltrate them with Huron or Ahriman to get them up close and draw attention away from your advancing troops.

Mindshred wrote:
They're infantry, so you could always Infiltrate them with Huron or Ahriman to get them up close and draw attention away from your advancing troops.

Not a bad idea, but in that case you usually should want to infiltrate the troops themselves and just deepstrike the mutilators.

I'm totally sold on the fluff and aesthetics. I'm thinking I'll only likely take one as something to spend a spare 50-odd pts on when I'm not going heavy on the Termies and Chosen, and use it for the distraction purpose already stated. They'll be a useful source of Marks, too (my pantheist Word Bearers will only have Marks on Daemon units).

 Clang wrote:
Good point, maybe Mutilators are a lot more useful when used in conjunction with another unit. But that introduces additional problems in getting both units to the same place at the same time. Raptors or bikers do seem good candidates...

Or maybe they actually worsen good units, making them have to wait around for SnP assaulters, or rely on your Deep Strike arriving when and where you want it. When you could just have taken bikers or raptorsor even Spawn for less and with more utility to do the same support job.

Ugly models... would kit bash my own.

They feel like the saddest Lone Wolves. DS one in on me and if my Lone Wolf can get there, (if), he'll lay waste to it.

I'd use them as a distraction, for certain.

TheKbob wrote:
Ugly models... would kit bash my own.

They feel like the saddest Lone Wolves. DS one in on me and if my Lone Wolf can get there, (if), he'll lay waste to it.

I'd use them as a distraction, for certain.

sad that they are so much worse. if each was an IC that could join other units they would be ok.
or if they have grenades and a better save
or if they could morph more useful weapons

Ah yes an assault squad that needs another unit to tie something up in assault before they get there. What a wonderful tactic. That makes them so much more useful than an assault squad who is capable of doing things like popping a transport or assaulting something all on its own.

Well it can be perfect disruption unit. The enemy has to take care of them since they can cause havoc. Target saturation is key when they deep strike into the enemy backfield.

 wuestenfux wrote:
Well it can be perfect disruption unit. The enemy has to take care of them since they can cause havoc. Target saturation is key when they deep strike into the enemy backfield.

That is true for anything that you can drop in the backfield, and many things can arrive doing a lot more harm. You can have terminators with heavy flamers and combi-weapons, raptors with double melta or double flamer, even sorcerers in termi armor. All of them do more than trio of Mutilators, often at a comparable prize.

As for causing havoc...if the enemy can move 6+ inches away from their innacurate deepstrike, it'll be 2 more turns before they do anything.

@Sephyr

Your comparisons don't work out to well. Only one of those options doesn't take up a valuable spot and that's the terminators which are a single unit in comparison to three individuals you can use to bracket the enemy. They are going to be cheaper than a terminator unit with anything more than a heavy flamer and single combi-weapon. You can be more aggressive with the deepstriking since you might be losing a 55pt model vs. a 150+pt squad.

Again, stop looking at units in vaccuum. Good chaos lists shouldn't have open heavy, hq, or fast attack spots. Which only leaves elites and not to many points available there. For what they do Mutilators are pretty nice.

 Hulksmash wrote:
@Sephyr

Your comparisons don't work out to well. Only one of those options doesn't take up a valuable spot and that's the terminators which are a single unit in comparison to three individuals you can use to bracket the enemy. They are going to be cheaper than a terminator unit with anything more than a heavy flamer and single combi-weapon. You can be more aggressive with the deepstriking since you might be losing a 55pt model vs. a 150+pt squad.

Again, stop looking at units in vaccuum. Good chaos lists shouldn't have open heavy, hq, or fast attack spots. Which only leaves elites and not to many points available there. For what they do Mutilators are pretty nice.

Yes, nothing valuable in the elite slots. No one needs cult marines, chosen special weapon squads, or heaven forbid terminators.

Kevlar wrote:

Yes, nothing valuable in the elite slots. No one needs cult marines, chosen special weapon squads, or heaven forbid terminators.

It should be pretty obvious by the context of Hulks quote is that he is not saying their is nothing of value from the elite slot, but rather once you get to the elite slot you may not have many points to spend. Most of the slots take at minimum a 150 point investment. In contrast, for 61 points you can get a MoN Mutli that can have a very respectable impact in the game.

ShadarLogoth wrote:

Kevlar wrote:

Yes, nothing valuable in the elite slots. No one needs cult marines, chosen special weapon squads, or heaven forbid terminators.

It should be pretty obvious by the context of Hulks quote is that he is not saying their is nothing of value from the elite slot, but rather once you get to the elite slot you may not have many points to spend. Most of the slots take at minimum a 150 point investment. In contrast, for 61 points you can get a MoN Mutli that can have a very respectable impact in the game.

By respectable you mean getting a respectable laugh out of your opponent as he turns it into a grease stain?

Kevlar wrote:

By respectable you mean getting a respectable laugh out of your opponent as he turns it into a grease stain?

Well, considering it takes, on average, 55 bolter shots to take one down then if they are devoting 3 or 4 units of firepower to one model then he's already having a "respectable" impact on the game. Or, if they are devoting Anti-Vehicle firepower at him instead of, you know, your vehicles, then he is also having a respectable impact on the game.

Every unit in the game can get shot at and die. Some do it better then others. 61 point 2 wound T5 terms do it better then most. "It might get shot at and die" is only a convincing argument for people who don't actually know how this game is fought and won.

Well, I can't say I have experience with the mutilators yet. However, I can say that with Oblits there were many situations where I preferred to have them in combat. After deepstriking, of course. I have to admit it is kind of nice to have an option now to do that which is slightly cheaper and meant to do that one thing.

Yes, raptors. Yes, spawn. Raptors don't have the 2+ and after you got the whole squad, given meltas, fearless and the other stuff, it gets expensive. It's not something you can use lightly or for disruption purposes... a lot of points for a suicide or something you can be careless about deepstriking. Same goes for oblits... 150 points a pop for a squad of two and you want to be careful with them. And I've tried the spawn; they are great but they often get tied up in combat. That's because they might roll for an armor save and only get one attack each one combat phase, or something like that.

And I'll bring back the point about the dimensional key. Think about things such as, drop pod lists. Assault lists. Daemons. 24-inch ranged fire lists. There are a great many things that have to move up turn one or even get up close and personal turn one. Now, suddenly they have to think hmm, do I want that juggerlord opening up a dimensional vortex and using pinpoint deepstrikes to twin-link melta me and place dedicated assault amidst my soft underbelly back field? If no, then they're forced to do something their list was not designed to do.

Well, Obliterators might be the better Multilators. Let them do what the Multilators might be good for (deep striking in the enemy backfield).
Multilators can do nothing but run after they deep strike. After deep striking in the enemy zone, Obliterators should have decent targets with their flamers, tl meltas, tl plasma guns, or assault cannons.
The Multilators may have a hard time to get into range of charging a unit, while the Obliterators can move away so that they eventually get out of charging range and can shoot at the same time.

 wuestenfux wrote:
Well, Obliterators might be the better Multilators. Let them do what the Multilators might be good for (deep striking in the enemy backfield).
Multilators can do nothing but run after they deep strike. After deep striking in the enemy zone, Obliterators should have decent targets with their flamers, tl meltas, tl plasma guns, or assault cannons.
The Multilators may have a hard time to get into range of charging a unit, while the Obliterators can move away so that they eventually get out of charging range and can shoot at the same time.

Mutilators can't even run. SNP.

Kevlar wrote:

 wuestenfux wrote:
Well, Obliterators might be the better Multilators. Let them do what the Multilators might be good for (deep striking in the enemy backfield).
Multilators can do nothing but run after they deep strike. After deep striking in the enemy zone, Obliterators should have decent targets with their flamers, tl meltas, tl plasma guns, or assault cannons.
The Multilators may have a hard time to get into range of charging a unit, while the Obliterators can move away so that they eventually get out of charging range and can shoot at the same time.

Mutilators can't even run. SNP.

Thanks for pointing out. Too bad. This makes them even more vulnerable after deep striking. Hello plasma cannons (if they scatter not too far).

Has anyone used mutilators yet ? is there a bat rep with em in ?

 wuestenfux wrote:
Well, Obliterators might be the better Multilators. Let them do what the Multilators might be good for (deep striking in the enemy backfield).
Multilators can do nothing but run after they deep strike. After deep striking in the enemy zone, Obliterators should have decent targets with their flamers, tl meltas, tl plasma guns, or assault cannons.
The Multilators may have a hard time to get into range of charging a unit, while the Obliterators can move away so that they eventually get out of charging range and can shoot at the same time.

Well, they fill slightly different roles. You need to be deepstriking oblits now with the new rules. But you don't want to be suicidal with them, unless you are rather desperate. It's still a 150p unit if you take two, and you want to be taking 2 because that's your HVY slot. You also might not want them tied up in combat for long since they can't be shooting and they are a very expensive shooting unit.

Mutilators can't run but they can assault up to 12 inches, which is a threat range of 18, reasonably 12, that the enemy has to think about being assaulted.

Obliterators can be handy DS distractions if you've gone for loads of Elites. Mutilators can be handy DS distractions if you've gone for loads of Heavy Support. Can we move on from that?

What about Mutilators AND Obliterators? Take three units of each, crank the disruption way up and create some threat overload situations. Oblits land outside the firing line, Muties cross fingers land land inside it.

You could really push it and throw in three Warp Talon units, a Lord on a Bike with a Key, and an appropriate SC letting him Infiltrate. If not a Lord, a Slaaneshi Sorcerer - force the unbelievers to take even more Blind tests. Anyone who can still see gets Obliterated.

 lindsay40k wrote:
Obliterators can be handy DS distractions if you've gone for loads of Elites. Mutilators can be handy DS distractions if you've gone for loads of Heavy Support. Can we move on from that?

What about Mutilators AND Obliterators? Take three units of each, crank the disruption way up and create some threat overload situations. Oblits land outside the firing line, Muties cross fingers land land inside it.

You could really push it and throw in three Warp Talon units, a Lord on a Bike with a Key, and an appropriate SC letting him Infiltrate. If not a Lord, a Slaaneshi Sorcerer - force the unbelievers to take even more Blind tests. Anyone who can still see gets Obliterated.

Too many points invested into the cults of Obliterators and Multilators. At the 1750 pt level or similar levels, its better to fill HS first and then there will be not very many pts left for Elite.

When I was testing out the new codex for possible lists I was running them with mark of slaanesh with a lord on steed and they were incredible, those four in your opponents backfield with your two metal dragons flying above and a flying dp on the horizon turned out to be brutal, beat a space wolves list by themselves

Tiarna Fuilteach wrote:
When I was testing out the new codex for possible lists I was running them with mark of slaanesh with a lord on steed and they were incredible, those four in your opponents backfield with your two metal dragons flying above and a flying dp on the horizon turned out to be brutal, beat a space wolves list by themselves

How'd you get the Lord to join them? Attached to another unit and ran over to join them when they appeared? Or were they four single model units?

if it was a slaneesh lord on a steed he could have outflanked

 lindsay40k wrote:
Obliterators can be handy DS distractions if you've gone for loads of Elites. Mutilators can be handy DS distractions if you've gone for loads of Heavy Support. Can we move on from that?

What about Mutilators AND Obliterators? Take three units of each, crank the disruption way up and create some threat overload situations. Oblits land outside the firing line, Muties cross fingers land land inside it.

You could really push it and throw in three Warp Talon units, a Lord on a Bike with a Key, and an appropriate SC letting him Infiltrate. If not a Lord, a Slaaneshi Sorcerer - force the unbelievers to take even more Blind tests. Anyone who can still see gets Obliterated.

I don't consider cult troops elite (u usually taking them with the lord or something) and the HVY and fast attack in this codex is just superior, it has better options for shooting and the fast has the dragon spawns and bikes. And both of them can be scoring in one mission, case closed.

I like the idea of obliterators and mutis, so long as you only take one man mutis and don't spend too many points on them. The oblits deepstrike on the edge of your front line or somewhere where they might control the battlefield and have a chance of surviving, meanwhile the mutis deepstrike on the opposite side, to pressure anything that might run away from the oblits.

I like warp talons as well, but with those guys you need a relatively large squad, start them on the board most of the time, and they need a lord to babysit them because they don't have grenades. They are a primary offensive unit.

Well, I also like the idea to start Oblits from the beginning and let them advance to put pressure upon the enemy. In the meanwhile, a squad of Multilators could deep strike in the enemy backfield to sandwich the enemy.

 wuestenfux wrote:
Well, I also like the idea to start Oblits from the beginning and let them advance to put pressure upon the enemy. In the meanwhile, a squad of Multilators could deep strike in the enemy backfield to sandwich the enemy.

It really depends on the enemy I guess, but oblits to me are specialized to be up close and personal, especially now that they need to switch weapons and so many of them are close range. In all my games they've been the most devastating when they deepstrike in and melta/flame/snipe something, then threaten the enemy backfield directly. Also when they're walking up it gives the enemy time to react and often they are shot and can be ignored.

Now you can do a combo of Auto-Havocs and Quad that is like, 215 pts and you hit everywhere on the board if you place the quad right... it kind of beats oblits now for sheer firepower and versatility. I don't think we will be seeing whole armies of oblits any more, just one or two 2 man units that deepstrike in.