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Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






Leerstetten, Germany

I will refrain from posting the okay face then...

I was trying to see if the various web sites had their "who won" polls up yet.
   
Made in us
[DCM]
Tilter at Windmills






Manchester, NH

How's this- you can start a separate thread specifically for debate-related humor and memes. Still no image-only posts allowed, though.

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Made in us
Dwarf High King with New Book of Grudges




United States

 Ouze wrote:
There is nothing useful to be gleaned here. Everyone just makes their own reality and decides what they want to believe actually happened, rorschach style.


I disagree. While it is frustrating, there is much to be gained in telling people off for being idiots.

I often say that the problem with America is the population, but I try to practice what I preach by engaging with like-minded individuals; and being unafraid of telling people they're doing something dumb.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/10/17 06:17:39


Life does not cease to be funny when people die any more than it ceases to be serious when people laugh. 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






Leerstetten, Germany

I think the only real meme worthy thing going on right now are the binders, so probably not worth it.

Can I at least post the inevitable "songify the debate" video that is sure to come out tomorrow at some point? I think by now that video is a tradition in every debate thread we have had.

Pretty please?
   
Made in au
The Dread Evil Lord Varlak





I only heard a bit this morning. The bit I heard sounded identical to last time, Obama talking about Romney's tax plan that not even Romney pretends is halfway serious, and Romney throwing out standard Republican catchphrases. Both seemed to be choosing their words very carefully, phrasing everything in most deliberate language.

Ultimately, I just don't think American politics produces great debaters. They're just not raised in a culture of cut and thrust debate. It's speach making culture, people stand up, talk for five or ten minutes and say their piece in a pre-planned speach.

It's why the US has a quite a lot of rather famous speaches, and a lot of very well regarded speachwriters and speachmakers, but not too many great debaters.

Compare that to the Westminster systems in the UK and Australia, where you cut your teeth in question time. We produce a lot of great debaters, but the speaches are almost all snooze fests.



 whembly wrote:
I think I've mentioned this in some older thread (or maybe not).

But the "HOW" at this point will always be in "abstract".

Most of the policies requires the President to engage Congress... you don't know what's going to happen when you get that far.


And as I pointed out in those threads, other politicians had things that were general, abstract tax policies centred on a few issues. Bush had tax cuts, Obama has the reversal of the high end Bush tax cuts while keeping his middle class tax cuts, and so on.

Whereas Romney has nothing like that. He has a series of muddled statements about a 20% tax cuts that he kind of pretends a claw back on deductions will somehow pay for. Except when he's pushed on the issue, at which point he just says a bunch of words that sum up as 'if it doesn't work I won't do it'. And when anyone with a pocket calculator knows that deductions in total can't come anywhere near the 20% figure he wants, it's only sensible to conclude what he has is not 'abstract', but is just gibberish.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/10/17 06:23:33


“We may observe that the government in a civilized country is much more expensive than in a barbarous one; and when we say that one government is more expensive than another, it is the same as if we said that that one country is farther advanced in improvement than another. To say that the government is expensive and the people not oppressed is to say that the people are rich.”

Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something. 
   
Made in us
[DCM]
Tilter at Windmills






Manchester, NH

It's also bizarre how he repeats "government does not create jobs", while repeatedly claiming we should elect him to the highest governmental office, because he knows how to create jobs (via the government).

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Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






Leerstetten, Germany

And blames Obama for not creating enough jobs even though apperantly he can't create jobs anyway?
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka






 Mannahnin wrote:
It's also bizarre how he repeats "government does not create jobs", while repeatedly claiming we should elect him to the highest governmental office, because he knows how to create jobs (via the government).

The Government clearly creates jobs, otherwise who would give me gakky service at every turn from the DMV to the VA? The TSA was just a Republican Peace Corps...and that's going sooooo well.

 Avatar 720 wrote:
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Powder Burns wrote:what they need to make is a fullsize leatherman, like 14" long folded, with a bone saw, notches for bowstring, signaling flare, electrical hand crank generator, bolt cutters..
 
   
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Tilter at Windmills






Manchester, NH

DHS is a piece of crap; no argument there. Bush-era bigger government boondoggle? Check.

NH DMV is fine. Never had any problems there. Our politicians (R & D) seem to insist that the VA is good.

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Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut






I thought Obama won the beginning of the debate, then middle was a tie, and then Romney won the last part. Overall I would say Obama "won".

Although to me he was the one that was coming off desperate like he was fighting for his life.

GG
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






Leerstetten, Germany

I insist that the VA is good as a whole with some areas that can use improvement and the occasional gakky person working there that is too hard to get rid of.

Of course I just work here, so I am biased.
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka






 Mannahnin wrote:
DHS is a piece of crap; no argument there. Bush-era bigger government boondoggle? Check.

NH DMV is fine. Never had any problems there. Our politicians (R & D) seem to insist that the VA is good.

Clearly you have never been on the receiving end of the VAs charm.
DHS is a miserable conglomeration of agencies that for better or worse, should have remained separate. The TSA is an abortion that survives purely to employ x nukmber of workers to keep unemployment down ( For Bush)

 Avatar 720 wrote:
You see, to Auston, everyone is a Death Star; there's only one way you can take it and that's through a small gap at the back.

Come check out my Blood Angels,Crimson Fists, and coming soon Eldar
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/391013.page
I have conceded that the Eldar page I started in P&M is their legitimate home. Free Candy! Updated 10/19.
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/391553.page
Powder Burns wrote:what they need to make is a fullsize leatherman, like 14" long folded, with a bone saw, notches for bowstring, signaling flare, electrical hand crank generator, bolt cutters..
 
   
Made in us
Boosting Space Marine Biker






I don't like how these debates are framed as win/lose situations.

Early in the debate they had an exchange over taxes, and I see a lot of people saying that they are just saying things (rhetoric), and the numbers are muddy or made up or whatever. It kinda gets hard to pay attention at these points as they tend to be mind dulling. The problem is that the numbers aren't there, because it is just theory at this point. Obama said he wants to sign papers on his plan but I don't think the Repubs will sign off on it until after the election and after a series of battles in December. I don't believe Mitt has written his yet, most likely because it is probably being held by the Repubs for after the election as a counter to the one Obama wants to sign right now.

Mitt seems pretty clear about what this plan involves. It involves lowering taxes on top income business owners so they can hire more people. It's charity for the rich. I have been working for small business owners for 16 years now. Most all of them have been Republicans (fiscally conservative), good people. Everytime they bring this arguement up and they always do at election time, whether its for Governor or Prez , I always remind them that If they really can't make it with out a tax cut because they can't afford to keep me around or grow the business, then I need to start looking for a new job anyways with someone who can make it in whatever economy is presented, because thats lazy and I wont waste my time with another failed business when the writing is on the wall.

I usually try to have this conversation with them in the parking lot and after I have my say I look directly at their new car for a few seconds, kinda staring at it like I want to steal it, then I look at mine and kick its tire and say, "see ya tomorrow morning."

When Mitt says he wants to lower taxes on business owners so they can hire more people I just think of lazy American business owners who should probably think of selling or retiring. But I don't think that is what he means. They just want more money at the expense of American infrastructure. They think if they lower taxes they will have more money and everything will be cheap like magic.

Meanwhile everything decays for another 4 year block.

   
Made in au
The Dread Evil Lord Varlak





 Mannahnin wrote:
It's also bizarre how he repeats "government does not create jobs", while repeatedly claiming we should elect him to the highest governmental office, because he knows how to create jobs (via the government).


It's even funnier when you realise his pledge to create 12 million jobs in the next four years... is exactly what the CBO predicts will happen if nothing changes.

"Vote for me, I'll give you what was going to happen anyway!"

“We may observe that the government in a civilized country is much more expensive than in a barbarous one; and when we say that one government is more expensive than another, it is the same as if we said that that one country is farther advanced in improvement than another. To say that the government is expensive and the people not oppressed is to say that the people are rich.”

Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something. 
   
Made in us
Hangin' with Gork & Mork






It was enlightening to find out that single mothers are the cause of gun violence.

Amidst the mists and coldest frosts he thrusts his fists against the posts and still insists he sees the ghosts.
 
   
Made in au
The Dread Evil Lord Varlak





 Radiation wrote:
Mitt seems pretty clear about what this plan involves. It involves lowering taxes on top income business owners so they can hire more people. It's charity for the rich. I have been working for small business owners for 16 years now. Most all of them have been Republicans (fiscally conservative), good people. Everytime they bring this arguement up and they always do at election time, whether its for Governor or Prez , I always remind them that If they really can't make it with out a tax cut because they can't afford to keep me around or grow the business, then I need to start looking for a new job anyways with someone who can make it in whatever economy is presented, because thats lazy and I wont waste my time with another failed business when the writing is on the wall.


Yeah, ultimately it just doesn't make sense if you look at what business is. Businesses owners don't get a bit more money in their pocket and then look to employ someone with that money, like employment is some kind of charity undertaken by the rich. They employ someone when there's something at the business that needs to be done, and having more stuff to be done comes from having more customers, more sales, not from the business owner having being able to keep more of his profits after tax.

And growing consumer demand comes from an employed and well paid middle class.

“We may observe that the government in a civilized country is much more expensive than in a barbarous one; and when we say that one government is more expensive than another, it is the same as if we said that that one country is farther advanced in improvement than another. To say that the government is expensive and the people not oppressed is to say that the people are rich.”

Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something. 
   
Made in ca
Depraved Slaanesh Chaos Lord





Yeah, it fits in nicely with the myth that prices are dictated by the cost to produce, and not by what people are willing to pay; which is why savings never get passed on to the consumer.
   
Made in us
Imperial Admiral




I only got to see bits and pieces. CBS instant polling had Obama with the win overall, 37% to 30% (33% believing it a tie), while Romney performed better on the economy and Obama scored more points on Benghazi.
   
Made in au
The Dread Evil Lord Varlak





 azazel the cat wrote:
Yeah, it fits in nicely with the myth that prices are dictated by the cost to produce, and not by what people are willing to pay; which is why savings never get passed on to the consumer.


Yeah, the price only moves towards the cost of production when you move closer to the perfect market... which of course businesses look to avoid wherever possible.

“We may observe that the government in a civilized country is much more expensive than in a barbarous one; and when we say that one government is more expensive than another, it is the same as if we said that that one country is farther advanced in improvement than another. To say that the government is expensive and the people not oppressed is to say that the people are rich.”

Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something. 
   
Made in us
5th God of Chaos! (Yea'rly!)




The Great State of Texas

 Mannahnin wrote:
Obama's done much better this time. He's been comfortable, engaged, much more articulate, clear and firm,

Romney comes off peevish and sometimes a bit desperate. "Government does not create jobs, government does not create jobs," repeated like a religious mantra.

Both could have stood to be kept more on topic. I wish Candy could kill their mikes when they go over time. But overall she's done a solid job.


I quickly got bored when I realized both were intentionally trying to interrupt each other, and CNN IMINCONTROLDAMMIT CHICK was trying to stop real debate from occurring.
Fortunately the high brow Victorian comedy that is Tosh/Brickleberry, and coconut rum saw me through the night.

-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
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Made in us
Battlefield Tourist




MN (Currently in WY)

 Ouze wrote:
 Monster Rain wrote:
I also move to change the thread title to "Debate Round 2: Electric Boogaloo."


Seconded! We have a motion on the floor.


+ infinity. Best thing I've heard about the debate yet.

I would also settle for a compromise position of Debate 2: Debate Harder, leading to Debate 3: Debate with a Vengeance.

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Made in us
5th God of Chaos! (Yea'rly!)




The Great State of Texas

 whembly wrote:
Wait... I promise, I'm not being snarky... what's Obama's plan from the debate again?


Win reelection. Play a whole lot of golf. Maybe start taking up violin lessons, you never know when that might come in handy.

-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
 
   
Made in us
[DCM]
GW Public Relations Manager (Privateer Press Mole)







 sebster wrote:
 Mannahnin wrote:
It's also bizarre how he repeats "government does not create jobs", while repeatedly claiming we should elect him to the highest governmental office, because he knows how to create jobs (via the government).


It's even funnier when you realise his pledge to create 12 million jobs in the next four years... is exactly what the CBO predicts will happen if nothing changes.

"Vote for me, I'll give you what was going to happen anyway!"



Yeah , that sound bite speaks to low information voters---and that's about it.

That claim also uses a hodge podge stew of numbers and for all intents/purposes is a lie;

http://m.washingtonpost.com/blogs/fact-checker/post/mitt-romneys-new-math-for-jobs-plan-doesnt-add-up/2012/10/15/fd1d1e1c-170f-11e2-a55c-39408fbe6a4b_blog.html

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Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






Leerstetten, Germany

Rush said that Romney won that debate, period.

Case closed.
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka






 d-usa wrote:
Rush said that Romney won that debate, period.

Case closed.
Leave and never return.

 Avatar 720 wrote:
You see, to Auston, everyone is a Death Star; there's only one way you can take it and that's through a small gap at the back.

Come check out my Blood Angels,Crimson Fists, and coming soon Eldar
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/391013.page
I have conceded that the Eldar page I started in P&M is their legitimate home. Free Candy! Updated 10/19.
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/391553.page
Powder Burns wrote:what they need to make is a fullsize leatherman, like 14" long folded, with a bone saw, notches for bowstring, signaling flare, electrical hand crank generator, bolt cutters..
 
   
Made in us
Hallowed Canoness





The Void

 dogma wrote:
 KalashnikovMarine wrote:
The only words of a politician's mouth were lies, damn lies and statistics. I didn't hear anything in this debate to change my opinion on that, or that I desperately don't want either of these fethheads running my country.


I'm glad to know your kind won't vote.



For president? I'm actually strongly considering it this year. Romney should be back in Massachusetts doing whatever a former Governor does and Obama should be back in Chicago teaching. Neither man is going to rate an endorsement from me for the presidency.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 AustonT wrote:
 Mannahnin wrote:
DHS is a piece of crap; no argument there. Bush-era bigger government boondoggle? Check.

NH DMV is fine. Never had any problems there. Our politicians (R & D) seem to insist that the VA is good.

Clearly you have never been on the receiving end of the VAs charm.
DHS is a miserable conglomeration of agencies that for better or worse, should have remained separate. The TSA is an abortion that survives purely to employ x nukmber of workers to keep unemployment down ( For Bush)


I'll check in with agreements on all of this, d-usa I don't know where you work for the VA, but let me know so I can come to this mythical land of fast and efficient service.

 Ahtman wrote:
It was enlightening to find out that single mothers are the cause of gun violence.


Yes that was quite fascinating. I mean I always thought much of the background was Drug Wars which gave criminals and criminal gangs cause to arm themselves to defend themselves against competition and law enforcement and attack the same in a multi-trillion dollar illegal industry. But now I know! It's single mothers! Clearly we need some sort of law in place to deal with them.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/10/17 14:08:40


I beg of you sarge let me lead the charge when the battle lines are drawn
Lemme at least leave a good hoof beat they'll remember loud and long


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Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






Leerstetten, Germany

I work inpatient, I know we have a huge backlog of new guys coming out of OEF/OIF/OND. This country is quick to send our guys to war, and slow to take care of them.

If they would give is half the bodies that they waste to staff the TSA we could do a lot better.

From the hospital point of view, and having worked in many different systems I truly believe that we are one of the best systems. But the clinic side of the Veterans Health Administration is overwhelmed in many facilities, and having pay freezes for years doesn't help retention.

I know many guys that feel like we are the best, but often it is the initial intake and disability rating that is the biggest battle, once in the system most are happy. But we have way to many guys on year long lists to get their benefits approved and care started. Work with your veterans groups and be on your case workers ass, that is the advise I always give people. I know we screw up, but I believe 100% in our mission and I am staying in the system to make it the best I can and repay the people that served.

I have zero experience on non-healthcare VA benefits.
   
Made in us
Hallowed Canoness





The Void

 d-usa wrote:
I work inpatient, I know we have a huge backlog of new guys coming out of OEF/OIF/OND. This country is quick to send our guys to war, and slow to take care of them.

If they would give is half the bodies that they waste to staff the TSA we could do a lot better.

From the hospital point of view, and having worked in many different systems I truly believe that we are one of the best systems. But the clinic side of the Veterans Health Administration is overwhelmed in many facilities, and having pay freezes for years doesn't help retention.

I know many guys that feel like we are the best, but often it is the initial intake and disability rating that is the biggest battle, once in the system most are happy. But we have way to many guys on year long lists to get their benefits approved and care started. Work with your veterans groups and be on your case workers ass, that is the advise I always give people. I know we screw up, but I believe 100% in our mission and I am staying in the system to make it the best I can and repay the people that served.

I have zero experience on non-healthcare VA benefits.


Yeah once the benefits fight ends VA healthcare isn't bad though I've heard some horror stories, especially from the older gents at the Legion, VFW, MCL posts etc. Getting my GI bill bennies running properly when I started school this semester was a nightmare though... three months with no income is a scary situation to be in.

I beg of you sarge let me lead the charge when the battle lines are drawn
Lemme at least leave a good hoof beat they'll remember loud and long


SoB, IG, SM, SW, Nec, Cus, Tau, FoW Germans, Team Yankee Marines, Battletech Clan Wolf, Mercs
DR:90-SG+M+B+I+Pw40k12+ID+++A+++/are/WD-R+++T(S)DM+ 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






Leerstetten, Germany

80s and early 90, the VA was a hellhole and a death trap, I know there are vets that will never come back because of those times.

Do you have guys from the different vet groups helping out? Being on a senators ass helps as well. Keep on fighting for what you earned.
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






Mesopotamia. The Kingdom Where we Secretly Reign.

 Mannahnin wrote:
NH DMV is fine. Never had any problems there. Our politicians (R & D) seem to insist that the VA is good.


NH DMV is a Shangri-La. I used to wonder why people would always complain about the DMV when I lived there.

Then I moved to California, and it's every horrible thing you've heard of.

The VA isn't bad, it's just huge so it takes a while to get stuff done.

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Haters gon' hate. 
   
 
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