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I suppose so

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
I guess wwe will have to agree to disagree, I do not think a child hiding with a gun is the best course of action. You think differently

I understand how you feel on this man, but think of it this way. What if your child was hurt during the fleeing to the neighbor's house? And you knew that your child knew where the gun was and knew how to handle it properly, how might you feel if your child could have had a shot at defending himself or herself?

In the end, we would always look at it this way, "How do I feel is the best for my child?"

Mine is, my kid better know how to use the gun, if not... Make a break for it.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Im just saying that at the age of 12, even if properly trained, mistakes are more likely to happen.

Are you quite certain? What makes you magically responsible at the age of 16? It's arbitrary.

In that situation, I would have told her to go out back to the neighbors house.

Yup. And the sleezeball rang the doorbell, and then went to the back door to kick it in. Congrats, you ushered your precious little child into the hands of the invader. I hope you get her back when he's done with her.

At least you kept her protected from that scary firearm though. Good jerb.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
It doesnt say he had those intentions or knowledge. And no im not defending him, im just playing devils advocate her, just because guns exist, doesnt mean we have to use them.She could have ran out back to her neighbors.

Texans don't run.

Yeah, Its all the BBQ they eat.

It was my bad Frazz, I misread... the young girl was from Oklahoma... they took the intruder to a Texas hospital...

This is way I think every child should have gun safety and shooting classes. I was using a rifle at 8 and a lot of my friends and knew how to shot a handgun by 10, we have never shot are selfs or anyone else. But I know a rookie cop that shot his own foot, it training in gun handling that matters not age.

Noir wrote:
This is way I think every child should have gun safety and shooting classes. I was using a rifle at 8 and a lot of my friends and knew how to shot a handgun by 10, we have never shot are selfs or anyone else. But I know a rookie cop that shot his own foot, it training in gun handling that matters not age.

What about kids whose parents dont support it being taught to their kids? I know a few.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:

Noir wrote:
This is way I think every child should have gun safety and shooting classes. I was using a rifle at 8 and a lot of my friends and knew how to shot a handgun by 10, we have never shot are selfs or anyone else. But I know a rookie cop that shot his own foot, it training in gun handling that matters not age.

What about kids whose parents dont support it being taught to their kids? I know a few.

They can take sociology.

Why do i feel like this is an insult to Sociology?

 AustonT wrote:

 hotsauceman1 wrote:

Noir wrote:
This is way I think every child should have gun safety and shooting classes. I was using a rifle at 8 and a lot of my friends and knew how to shot a handgun by 10, we have never shot are selfs or anyone else. But I know a rookie cop that shot his own foot, it training in gun handling that matters not age.

What about kids whose parents dont support it being taught to their kids? I know a few.

They can take sociology.

Or read the Prius driver's manual.

BAM!

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Yeah, Its all the BBQ they eat.

THAT is an amazingly accurate statement.

IN reality I'd proffer that might be the best course. However it depends on circumstances. If the intruder is in the house escape is not an option.
Our firearms are locked up fyi.

I think my first reflex if someone's banging on the door, is to have them call 911, and hide in the bathtub. If they are older, they do the same but hide in the bathub with a 9mm. I can give them the code over the phone.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 hotsauceman1 wrote:

Noir wrote:
This is way I think every child should have gun safety and shooting classes. I was using a rifle at 8 and a lot of my friends and knew how to shot a handgun by 10, we have never shot are selfs or anyone else. But I know a rookie cop that shot his own foot, it training in gun handling that matters not age.

What about kids whose parents dont support it being taught to their kids? I know a few.

That they are godless communists that should be beaten as they are driven across the border into Canada? I'm, just putting that out there.

 Frazzled wrote:

I think my first reflex if someone's banging on the door, is to have them call 911, and hide in the bathtub. If they are older, they do the same but hide in the bathub with a 9mm. I can give them the code over the phone.

While I like the idea of you telling the intruder banging on the door to preemptively call 911, why would you have them hide in your bathtub, let alone with one of your guns? Give them a fighting chance?

 daedalus wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:

I think my first reflex if someone's banging on the door, is to have them call 911, and hide in the bathtub. If they are older, they do the same but hide in the bathub with a 9mm. I can give them the code over the phone.

While I like the idea of you telling the intruder banging on the door to preemptively call 911, why would you have them hide in your bathtub, let alone with one of your guns? Give them a fighting chance?

Because the ten million wiener dogs coming up the stairs to eat them alive hate baths and thats the only place an intruder is even remotely safe?

Would you rather be reading a story about a 12 years old girl who shot a criminal, or a story about a 12 year old being raped and murdered in a home invasion?

Apparently the latter, because victimization is the new 'hip' in the US.

This moment of self-actualization might have ACTUALLY forced this child into realizing she's capable of influencing the world around her. God forbid.

 Frazzled wrote:

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
It doesnt say he had those intentions or knowledge. And no im not defending him, im just playing devils advocate her, just because guns exist, doesnt mean we have to use them.She could have ran out back to her neighbors.

Texans don't run.

Just pointing out here, but I doubt many B/E criminals don't take time to open closet doors unless they know someone is home... To me, that is intent....

And if I were her parents' she'd probably be grounded, since she missed center mass, and he got out of the house.


And I'm with Swordbreaker, I am all for the NRA favoring stories in the media about the "defenseless" Americans out there defending themselves properly. I have 2 children of my own, and if they were faced with this situation, I can only hope that I will have trained/taught them well enough that this would be the outcome as well.

 daedalus wrote:
Apparently the latter, because victimization is the new 'hip' in the US.

This moment of self-actualization might have ACTUALLY forced this child into realizing she's capable of influencing the world around her. God forbid.

And at such an important time in her life. I imagine she will turn out to be a remarkable mature young women. This will be a valuable life experience that might temper the usual Teenage stupidity.

 Ensis Ferrae wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
It doesnt say he had those intentions or knowledge. And no im not defending him, im just playing devils advocate her, just because guns exist, doesnt mean we have to use them.She could have ran out back to her neighbors.

Texans don't run.

Just pointing out here, but I doubt many B/E criminals don't take time to open closet doors unless they know someone is home... To me, that is intent....

And if I were her parents' she'd probably be grounded, since she missed center mass, and he got out of the house.


And I'm with Swordbreaker, I am all for the NRA favoring stories in the media about the "defenseless" Americans out there defending themselves properly. I have 2 children of my own, and if they were faced with this situation, I can only hope that I will have trained/taught them well enough that this would be the outcome as well.

Yeah I'm really disappointed she didn't have a follow up shot as well as missing center of mass, at that range you should really be hitting a hammer pair. So were it my child she'd have to go to extra range time with daddy instead of playing with her friends for a couple weekends, but she would definitely be getting an ice cream.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Grey Templar wrote:

 daedalus wrote:
Apparently the latter, because victimization is the new 'hip' in the US.

This moment of self-actualization might have ACTUALLY forced this child into realizing she's capable of influencing the world around her. God forbid.

And at such an important time in her life. I imagine she will turn out to be a remarkable mature young women. This will be a valuable life experience that might temper the usual Teenage stupidity.

Whoa now... let's not be too hasty, that almost sounds like you're casting firearms, personal responsibility and the will and ability to defend yourself in a positive light! *sarcasm*

 KalashnikovMarine wrote:



Yeah I'm really disappointed she didn't have a follow up shot as well as missing center of mass, at that range you should really be hitting a hammer pair. So were it my child she'd have to go to extra range time with daddy instead of playing with her friends for a couple weekends, but she would definitely be getting an ice cream.

Perhaps she didn't get the second half of her controlled pair off because she wasn't wearing her ppe?? Lol, that'd be something to see. A 12 year old, when told to grab the family gun, also has the presence of mind to put in the ear-pro

Come on, when you've got an intruder, the last thing on your mind should be ear protection. Besides, headphones already do an excellent job at destroying your ear drums.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 KalashnikovMarine wrote:


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Grey Templar wrote:

 daedalus wrote:
Apparently the latter, because victimization is the new 'hip' in the US.

This moment of self-actualization might have ACTUALLY forced this child into realizing she's capable of influencing the world around her. God forbid.

And at such an important time in her life. I imagine she will turn out to be a remarkable mature young women. This will be a valuable life experience that might temper the usual Teenage stupidity.

Whoa now... let's not be too hasty, that almost sounds like you're casting firearms, personal responsibility and the will and ability to defend yourself in a positive light! *sarcasm*

Sorry, I don't know what came over me

I can't seem to shake that a "harden" criminal got taking out by a twelve year old girl....he never live it down in general population...

Ok, lets discuss that.


We have 2 possabilities for the Criminal's intent.

1) He was just a burgler looking for some valuables to steal

2) He was a rapist


In scenerio 1, he was breaking into a house and about to rummage through a closet when suddenly he gets shot at very close range through the door. "HOLY ****!" That would make anyone hightail it out of there.

In scenerio 2. he's looking for the girl hiding in the house. He starts looking and eventually comes to a closet. Just when he starts to open it, he gets shot "HOLY ****, the little dame is armed and I've been shot. I better get out of here before I get shot again and possably die."

Someone breaking into a house is going to be naturally jumpy. Having your worst nightmare happen to you will set off the fight or flight response, and criminals tend to be cowardly so the flight response is what will win most of the time.


He may not have even realized he was hurt till he made it outside.

 Grey Templar wrote:
Ok, lets discuss that.


We have 2 possabilities for the Criminal's intent.

1) He was just a burgler looking for some valuables to steal

2) He was a rapist


In scenerio 1, he was breaking into a house and about to rummage through a closet when suddenly he gets shot at very close range through the door. "HOLY ****!" That would make anyone hightail it out of there.

In scenerio 2. he's looking for the girl hiding in the house. He starts looking and eventually comes to a closet. Just when he starts to open it, he gets shot "HOLY ****, the little dame is armed and I've been shot. I better get out of here before I get shot again and possably die."

Someone breaking into a house is going to be naturally jumpy. Having your worst nightmare happen to you will set off the fight or flight response, and criminals tend to be cowardly so the flight response is what will win most of the time.


He may not have even realized he was hurt till he made it outside.

What made him attempt to rummage through that particular closet? According to the article, he rang the doorbell, then wen through the back. Something tells me he knew someone was home. I think you're making quite a few assumptions with scenario 2. I mean, by that measure, we can have scenario 3, in which the perp is actually a kidnapper looking to pick up said 12 year old for whatever fethed up reason he has, only to find that she's not just a cute little kid with a set of lungs.

Well, your scenerio 3 would fall into the same catagory as Scenerio 2. Really the same outcome and reaction regardless of the intention being rape or rape and kidnapping or just kidnapping.


With a burglery, he's been found out/shot at. better run for your life.

With a rape/kidnapping, his chosen victim has a gun and is willing to use it. better run for your life.

I'm british and don't believe guns should be legal, yet I agree with most of the pro gun stances here. Strange huh?

Hotsauce if she was six I would be worried, anything above 8 in my opinion is fine to handle a firearm on their own land.

Assuming they're semi versed with gun control.

If this was in the UK, the intruder would be able to sue for injuries, psychological damage, as well as compensation for being unable to return to his line of work. The girl's parents would be kept under supervision for leaving a gun in a way it can be used by a child, the child herself possibly being taken away and put into care.

/political rant.

 Valkyrie wrote:
If this was in the UK, the intruder would be able to sue for injuries, psychological damage, as well as compensation for being unable to return to his line of work. The girl's parents would be kept under supervision for leaving a gun in a way it can be used by a child, the child herself possibly being taken away and put into care.

/political rant.

I'd rather have to deal with all that, and still have a LIVING child, rather than another possible outcome. Here in the US, not too many judges will remove a child from parents in a case like this, assuming that the 12 year old is really the only child, or that only children of a more or less, acceptable age, can access the firearms if needed.

Noone has blamed the victim yet?

I mean come on, it was clearly the girl's fault for being home alone. The man was just trying to do a bit of casual burglary, even ringing the doorbell to make sure noone was home, and suddenly gets shot as he opens a cupboard. He had no idea there was an armed child there!