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 daedalus wrote:
I guess what I'm trying to say here is that I wouldn't dress like that, were I an attractive con-going female.

Wait but hold on, let's listen to what the woman herself has to say. This is NOT how she is usually treated at cons.

I like seeing half naked chicks in "artistic" costumes at GenCon.

If some mouth-breathing feth-tards ruin that by chasing away the pretty ladies by harassing and/or groping them, I'm going to have to start forming a posse.

 Manchu wrote:

 daedalus wrote:
Step 1: Dress up to attract attention around unattractive people who characteristically have problems with social interaction, ESPECIALLY with women.

Step 2: Act surprised and outraged. Alert the media, because step 1 was still not enough attention.

Dude, no.

First, even attractive women can like comic books. Second, cosplay necessarily entails histrionic or narcissistic motives to the same extent that table top gaming necessarily entails paraphilic infantilism -- i.e., not at all.

Since you are well down the path of objectification, I don't mind using this example: Let's say you have a GD-quality army for 40k or Fantasy on display at a con and some dude comes over and starts fondling your models. I guess you had it coming since you only brought that army out in public to get attention. Now, imagine we're not talking about pieces of plastic pretty much entirely disassociated from you and that same douche from the hypothetical started treating your person like an attractive toy.

Thats not a fair comparison. The fair comparison would be some dude scomes over and just obsessively stares at them, and/or makes a rude comment to them.
Remember boys: ogling is not battery. What Dad does to you after seeing you ogling his daughter, is.

 Frazzled wrote:
Remember boys: ogling is not battery.

Frazz, by all means, go into dad mode on this one to understand reason. Situation is, a few years out, some guy asks GC her cup size while a bunch of other dudes hoot and holler.

 Manchu wrote:

 daedalus wrote:
I guess what I'm trying to say here is that I wouldn't dress like that, were I an attractive con-going female.

Wait but hold on, let's listen to what the woman herself has to say. This is NOT how she is usually treated at cons.

Which, frankly, blows me away. Again, how little I think of the kinds of people I see at cons.

 Ahtman wrote:
The problem isn't that the women who posted the incident was getting stares or comments, it was that some people decided it was ok to be rude to her and harass her because she chose to dress as a comic character and actually had the figure to pull it off. If you read what was said and done it was clear they were out of line, and went beyond just noticing she was wearing a 'sexy' outfit.

All she ha to do was slap him and the problem is solved. Plus she might have gotten a round of applause. Come on wimminz, be fierce!

 Frazzled wrote:

All she ha to do was slap him and the problem is solved. Plus she might have gotten a round of applause. Come on wimminz, be fierce!

*Tips his Orky Top hat*

Thank you, good Ser!

 Manchu wrote:
Indeed. Reds8n posted her own words as published on Bleeding Cool:

But seriously just want to clear up something: an experience being treated like that at Comic Con has never happened to me before, which is why I was compelled to post and discuss it here. The vast majority of men I’ve encountered show respect to me and other cosplaying women- they ask before posing with me, they often ask before taking a picture at all, they don’t make lewd or derogatory comments and they follow my (and most ladies’) basic rules on touching:Your hands can be on the places they’d be if I was your Mama- if you wouldn’t touch your Mama there, you won’t be touching me there. And it’s nice to know that 99% of men would not play grab-ass with their mamas!

If you’re one of the respectful guys, thank you for doing what you do and for making cons that much more enjoyable and fun for everyone- I truly appreciate it and you.

Do any of you really want to defend the guys she's actually complaining about? Really???

As Ahtman noted.
1. Oggling, hey dem's de breaks.
2. verbal comments or touching, thats completel unacceptable and requires a response. As noted a nice backhand should do fine.

remember, ancient budha say: if you see a naked man running down the street, you should start running too. Anything that can make a man run buck naked down the street is something worth running from.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 AustonT wrote:

 Manchu wrote:

 AustonT wrote:
Im sure when they unzip their latex half way they look in the mirror and say "Today I will be respected."

No, clearly they say "maybe today's the day that AustonT will finally notice me and maybe even cop a feel."

A girl can only dream, no really she can only dream my wife is the stabby kind of latina.

Dude, all Latinas are the stabby kind.

 daedalus wrote:

 Manchu wrote:

 daedalus wrote:
I guess what I'm trying to say here is that I wouldn't dress like that, were I an attractive con-going female.

Wait but hold on, let's listen to what the woman herself has to say. This is NOT how she is usually treated at cons.

Which, frankly, blows me away. Again, how little I think of the kinds of people I see at cons.

According to her experience at least, her being sexy isn't taken by most or even many comic con attendees as a license to say/do whatever they want to her. But why does that matter? Whether people actually do treat this woman or similarly situated women badly should have nothing to do with whether they should.

 Ahtman wrote:

 Manchu wrote:

 Ahtman wrote:
Essentially women are mean to most men, but will tolerate rich or handsome men to get attention.

But his first comment was that she wanted attention from unattractive, socially inept men.

I think I was confusing Ratbarf's and Daedalus's statements.

Well, while we're on the subject, I think the implication of ratbarf's argument is that there's no such thing as a per se offensive statement. The tack seems to be that offense is something relevant only to the particular situation, or phrased much more poorly, something that the victim decides. A handsome, rich man asking her bra size while a bunch of other dudes carried on is hypothetically not offensive -- if she liked it. So, in other words, is it sexual harassment if she doesn't complain? According to definitions with which I'm familiar, one of the elements of sexual harassment is "unwanted." So we have the same kind of ambiguity as surrounds rape. And a lot of this discussion is reminding me of the talks on OT about rape.

 Manchu wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:
Remember boys: ogling is not battery.

Frazz, by all means, go into dad mode on this one to understand reason. Situation is, a few years out, some guy asks GC her cup size while a bunch of other dudes hoot and holler.

(see later posts - we're in agreement I think).

Oggling - Grr but not that actionable.
comments or touching -CRY HAVOC AND LET SLIP THE WIENER DOGS OF WAR!

 Frazzled wrote:

 Manchu wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:
Remember boys: ogling is not battery.

Frazz, by all means, go into dad mode on this one to understand reason. Situation is, a few years out, some guy asks GC her cup size while a bunch of other dudes hoot and holler.

(see later posts - we're in agreement I think).

Oggling - Grr but not that actionable.
comments or touching -CRY HAVOC AND LET SLIP THE WIENER DOGS OF WAR!

I figured that trying to slip wieners would be part of the problem here...

 reds8n wrote:
http://www.bleedingcool.com/2012/10/17/when-the-black-cat-was-sexually-harrassed-at-nycc/

At Comic Con today, I went as Black Cat. This is a gakky picture and there will be better ones of my whole costume coming up but I just want to say something.

Black Cat’s costume has a fair amount of cleavage (conservative compared to many other female comic characters but a good amount as far as what I’ve ever shown). I guess I was not surprised to have a couple men ask to pose with me and then do some doofy “WHOA LOOK AT THOSE KNOCKERS” poses. I just make a really ugly face when I see they’re doing it. One guy with the social graces of a lemur said to me “I was this close to wearing that same outfit. My breasts are large and supple and I think it would have been nice.” Nope. Stop talking.

Wut? 0_o
No wonder she had such an averse reaction. That gak is creepy as feth.

Thing is, I'm not saying the blokes were not proper dickless losers.. that fat guy doing the interview sounds like a total ball-bag. Who thinks acting like that impresses women? I mean, I would try and pick her up maybe.. and anyone with a brain knows the best way to do that is be nice, crack the occasional joke and then ask her is she fancies a drink afterwards, not ask her to slap your ass and act like a juvenile, but what I'm getting at is, he DIDNT assault her, and he didn't grope her either! He basically said some ridiculous gak and asked her to slap his ass.

I'm not defending the bloke, I'm just saying she is being ridiculous as well, and obviously loves attention, hence the media, and going dressed as black cat anyway. Ergo, your groping analogies are unfair!

Here is a fair one, if I was at a con dressed in my spiderman costume and ten girls all came over (rare as feth no doubt at comic cons so Ill intent a website) from .. I don't know.. comicbookbirds.com

And then one of them said "Hey spidey, grab one of my tits and pose for a photo" and I said "er.. Im not very comfortable with that" and then one shouts "Ok, how big is your dick!?" and they all start laughing. Now, this is common in the UK (Hen parties are worse than stag-dos!) and the usual thing a bloke does is grin, and then quickly feth off. If I was in the above situation, I would of course, not be bothered at all and shrug it off. I would reply "Its about as big as a AAA battery" and then feth off to the pub.

Is there any need to kick up a fuss? Why not just answer his gak question and then get on with your life/get annoyed when he actually does start fully sexually harassing or groping you?

I'm just saying, I don't really think he was anything other than a really sad corny bastard trying to pull a fit bird. He certainly didnt grope, assault, or do anything majorly inappropropriate. If he slapped her ass, instead of merely requesting a slap for example, thats a line crossed.. but as it stands I just see it as a fat unfunny fether showing off in front of people and doing a really gak job of trying to impress a bird!

I don't think there needs to be a rulebook that everyone checks before they can legitimately feel awkward and offended. Can you sympathize with this woman feeling grossed out and denigrated in this particular situation or not?

 Manchu wrote:
I don't think there needs to be a rulebook that everyone checks before they can legitimately feel awkward and offended. Can you sympathize with this woman feeling grossed out and denigrated in this particular situation or not?

Nope

Just to be clear, do you not sympathize because of the "surprise argument" or something else?

 Manchu wrote:
I don't think there needs to be a rulebook that everyone checks before they can legitimately feel awkward and offended. Can you sympathize with this woman feeling grossed out and denigrated in this particular situation or not?

I can understand feeling grossed out, not denigrated. It feels good when people know you are attractive right?

For example.. I was once in a gay bar in Sydney, basically because I was after shagging this mint bird who wanted to go with two gay blokes.. anyway, the bar was cheap, I had a good time, several men came onto me, and at one point a massive black dude with a strong accent actually stomped over and said "I really like you mon!" and tried to kiss me really aggressively, to the point that his bottom lip brushed against my fething chin as I jerked away from the bloke and went "arg!"

Anyway, I was grossed out sure, but I didn't feel bad or denigrated...same on that hen do I told you about ages ago where loads of chicks were acting like savages and one grabbed my bollocks! Its great when people fancy you regardless of your interest in them. Sure its better if you like them cos then you get some action... but even if they are ugly woman or men, it far from makes you feel bad... its nice to know people find you attractive regardless, so why on earth get butt hurt about it? Clearly she likes being the centre of attention, and the knowledge that she could feth 90% of the men in the building.

Im aware that it IS somewhat different for women obviously, but the point stands. It was hardly an awful experience, and possibly even slightly gratifying if she hated the guy and knew he wanted to shag her and she was safe in the knowledge she could walk off and basically go "feth you loser"

Just to be clear:
You asked if I sympathized; I do not.

You can color it any way you would like, as you already have ITT. I don't feel an iota of pity or sympathy for the plight of this woman.

 AustonT wrote:
I don't feel an iota of pity or sympathy for the plight of this woman.

Which is just as well as I doubt she requires either. It was a call for civility, not a pity party.

 AustonT wrote:
I don't feel an iota of pity or sympathy for the plight of this woman.

Right, I'm not interested in convincing you to do otherwise. I just want to know if you have a reason for this and if so, is it your previously stated "she shouldn't be surprised so I don't care" argument or something else?

You reap what you sow.

 mattyrm wrote:
It feels good when people know you are attractive right?

No, I don't think it's that simple. I don't think whether or not people want to do sexual things to you quite translates into the sort of acknowledgment of attractiveness that generally feels good.

 AustonT wrote:
You reap what you sow.

That's another fun one for a land raider. A little wordy though:

"vos mos metere quod vos seminant"

 AustonT wrote:
You reap what you sow.

She was sowing rudeness, harassment, and bad behavior? That is odd, I thought she just wore a costume that she liked to a convention.

I now have script to write on *Crowe's Pimp Wagon Thanks to this thread,

*Crowe's Pimp Wagon: A GK Stormlord designated as Castellan Crowe's personal transportation. Amenities include a Hot Tub, Sauna, a dozen Sororites that are all licensed Massusses, and a stage upon which the Goff Rokkas give performances.

 daedalus wrote:

 AustonT wrote:
You reap what you sow.

That's another fun one for a land raider. A little wordy though:

"vos mos metere quod vos seminant"

True dat. Of course everything in Latin looks good on a landraider including "excuse me is this the way to the restroom?"

@Ahtman: To what extent, if at all, do you think the fellow in question thought "you reap what you sow" as he began the interview? In all sincerity, do you think this is more of a post hoc justification or something that creates the possibility for that kind of rudeness in the first place?

 Frazzled wrote:

True dat. Of course everything in Latin looks good on a landraider including "excuse me is this the way to the restroom?"

Closest I could find on Google was "bathhouse", which is apparently "beret", if it's to be believed.

Sort of gives funny new meaning to those silly things those frenchies put on their heads.

I would lean toward Post Hoc Justification. I think they just wanted to screw with a pretty girl, and really any reason they could come up with would have done. It is easier to be an donkey-cave if you can justify it by putting the blame on the other person.

"I wouldn't have killed it and made a dress of it's skin if it wasn't walking around wearing such nice skin" - Buffalo Bill ~Silence of the Lambs

It would have been far different if the guy in question had been tall, muscled and chisel jawed.

It's a pathetic double standard and if the woman in question had wanted more limited male attention, there are thousands of uniforms and costumes that would have allowed this. She wanted attention, dressed in a highly provocative way and to feel good about being admired but had established herself a set of rules of conduct that someone overstepped.

Is the guy who did this a jackass? Absolutely.
Is the girl entitled to shout loudly about it? Hardly. It's the same as wearing something risque to a nightclub and getting hit on by a guy that was 'creepy' or 'awkward'. It was an unpleasant experience which she should have dealt with and moved on.