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 Squidmanlolz wrote:

 Color Sgt. Kell wrote:
Also, if there were a catachan codex, I don't think they'd be able to take orders. Maybe, for gameplay, but catachans doing a first rank/second rank fire doesn't sound like their fluff.

I agree, but I think they would need something to deal out a large amount of shots in a pinch

Bladestorm.

Would make sense, considering their expected lack of fire discipline.

Maybe add a rule such as: whenever a Commissar is about to execute the sargeant, roll a leader ship test using the Sarge ld, if you succeed it, the squad shoots the commissar and flees, if you fail, the commissar shoots the sarge and everything goes as usual.

Although that might hurt the Catachans a bit too much, so there's probably some middle ground to be found.

Cool rule Bob. Also a bladestorm type rule would be excellent for catachans! Maybe make it increase the shots by two instead of one, (but hear me out), make it snap fire.

 Bobthehero wrote:
Maybe add a rule such as: whenever a Commissar is about to execute the sargeant, roll a leader ship test using the Sarge ld, if you succeed it, the squad shoots the commissar and flees, if you fail, the commissar shoots the sarge and everything goes as usual.

Although that might hurt the Catachans a bit too much, so there's probably some middle ground to be found.

Why not just say no Commissars? Catachans with commies doesn't sound too fluffy to me. It just seems like a pointless rule really.

Pointless, my friend, but fun!

Really? I mean, take it to extremes, so a Lord Commissar and five normal commissars. That's 245 points of commissars base. Then we have power weapons, camo cloaks, etc to take into account, so let's assume 300 points. That can be killed off quite easily by snipers, VOF, and barrage sniping, as well as the rule that means you're either losing your sergeant or commissar, both of which will probably have a power weapon and more.

The point I'm making is why bother with commissars when you're being punished for taking them? I'd drop them altogether personally.

 liquidjoshi wrote:

 Bobthehero wrote:
Maybe add a rule such as: whenever a Commissar is about to execute the sargeant, roll a leader ship test using the Sarge ld, if you succeed it, the squad shoots the commissar and flees, if you fail, the commissar shoots the sarge and everything goes as usual.

Although that might hurt the Catachans a bit too much, so there's probably some middle ground to be found.

Why not just say no Commissars? Catachans with commies doesn't sound too fluffy to me. It just seems like a pointless rule really.

They actually have a lot of Commissars, said Commissar just... disapear.

Edit: Granted, its far more for fluff reason than practicall reasons, but if everything was fluffy, you'd have utterly unbreakable Death Korps Guardsmen who'd happy shoot at units locked in assault and whatnot.

 Bobthehero wrote:


Edit: Granted, its far more for fluff reason than practicall reasons, but if everything was fluffy, you'd have utterly unbreakable Death Korps Guardsmen who'd happy shoot at units locked in assault and whatnot.

Cheers for proving my point for me

What?

You said Catachans with Commies aren't fluffy, but they are, however they tend to get shot in firefights, which is exactly what our TT battles are, no?

 Color Sgt. Kell wrote:
To necroshea, I love that model! One of the classics that got me interested in 40k!

Agreed!

I have a lot of dislike for them in strange ways not the normal ways, mostly cause of there theme. Yeah there wanna be Rambo's which is the first problem. A lot of issues I see with IG, is a copy paste mentality of different preset era's. WW1 / Modern War. Sure its possible some armies don't get equipment or armor and what not. But does that mean all of a sudden rambo happens 40k years into the future. Even with the famous red bandana and no shirt with camo pants?

I think the biggest issue is just the tasteless copy paste, plus Marbo. Really don't like the guy simply because he is Rambo... just move the R and A around in his name and you can make Rambo. If they developed Catchan with other mechanic's that doesn't seem like pulling from other armies then I think that be neat. if they developed an over all visual appeal that wasn't such an earthly stereotype that be good. If they redesigned the models so they where not, as other people have said Gorilla-ish, or maybe there is a pun to the model(gorilla tactics).

Catchan's feel like an idea that was thought about for nearly five minutes and some guy said, yeah this can work. Simply cause we have WW1 rolling around already we'll just make them more macho and give them some different rules with an entire jungle planet to die on. And there you go Rambo all day. I think the whole Catachan world theme is cool idea. But what kind of life is so deadly on this planet where are those creatures? Have they tamed any? What kind of strange weapons have they made from this deadly world? Are those things reflective in the rules and FOC they got. No... We have a stereotype lets run with that right.

Much as I dislike them I'm going to sit there and go on and on about it with people that like playing them. Cause, who knows out there who dislikes what I like playing. Yeah its okay to say why. Or okay to talk about it when asked. But people should seriously learn to respect some space. Last thing you wanna do before a game is be on bad footing. One is belittling your opponents army. Hell I might not get along with my opponent but I sure can be quiet, play a decent game, and then go home. Its not like I'm stuck with him for five hours. Talking about things I don't want to talk about or find un-interesting. maybe they got Tamed Tigers in there box cause of the Catachan death world being so deadly. Maybe they can coat poison from frogs on bolter ammo. Maybe they have punji traps. if my opponent had things like this I'd let him play them after a discussion on pricing and what not, cause that army is DYING! D*Y*I*N*G! for substance.

I think the only reason they went with Stallone (Or how ever you spell his name.) is the fact his movies are like porno's. Lots of blowing up, stabbing, hunting, shooting. That's it... Well that translates to 40k pretty easily. But seriously, to me you couldn't pick a worse person / movie to copy paste over. They should of honestly designed a character, at least then I could come to my own conclusions and not have a lame movie persona in my head on sight. When I see Sly Marbo, I don't think fluff I think crappy designed movie character with a bad actor. An action movie I can say yeah that's Catachan and I like, would be 'Where Eagle's Dare' with Clint Eastwood, suspense, spies, behind enemy lines with a moderately good plot line.

I'll say the sad thing in all this is the Catachan's didn't have any defined rules / themes justified for the 40k universe aside the planet. Its alright, but it could be a lot better. I think if I was personally going to run them they would look a lot different. Design some of my own things what not. Probably try and Allies with Andy Hoare's KompletelyKroot Codex, depending on my opponent.

http://www.freewebs.com/pfreck/Kodex%2520Kroot%2520V4.2.pdf.

Good made up dex would fit well with Catachan jungle theme for allies, course legality is a whole other issue.

-Sincerely Viridian

 Bobthehero wrote:
What?

You said Catachans with Commies aren't fluffy, but they are, however they tend to get shot in firefights, which is exactly what our TT battles are, no?

I have never heard of a commissar in a catachan unit. The closest I have seen is Gaunt in the Tanith, and that's a long shot away from Catachans. While I know there are some Catachan armies that use them, they're not as wide scale in their regiments as, say, Cadians.
And don't patronise me boy. Try reading my post, where I said the rule was unnecessary, to which you replied:

Bobthehero wrote:Edit: Granted, its far more for fluff reason than practicall reasons, but if everything was fluffy, you'd have utterly unbreakable Death Korps Guardsmen who'd happy shoot at units locked in assault and whatnot.

.
My argument was to remove the rule or commissars altogether, the latter of which I stated explicitly as a personal opinion.

i love them i use them as my allies with tau dont have many tho.

Instead of commisars Catachans could have a "Grizzled Command Sergeant Major". He is asenior NCO that the men look up to and follow out of respect instead of fear. He still confers a Stubborn Ld of 10 however if the LD test is failed he "goes down swinging" and is removed as a casualty. A buddy of mine is a die hard Catachan fan and he has almost dropped the hobby because of the lack of "love" for them. I still think one can get a good "feeling" Catachan army out pf the current book but it wont be anything different. I would almost like to see GW treat special regiments the same as special Space Marine Chapters. What ever happend to the Vostoyan(sp?)I list??

As much as I hate to say it, the heyday of the 80's action hero is long past, the "cool" factor is gone, and the models/sculpts for the Catachan's are...unappealing to put it politely, with odd proportions, blurry detail, and awkward/static poses, there's not much to like about them.

They worked in the 80's and early 90's, but honestly, the Catachan's prime was 20 years ago, there's been so much change in popular culture, scifi, the 40k universe itself, model and sculpting possibilities, etc that they just don't do it for anyone anymore.

 TheCaptain wrote:

Would make sense, considering their expected lack of fire discipline.

What? If anything Catachans are one of the most professional IG regiments simply because they spend their entire lives fighting. They aren't disciplined like a standard IG regiment but their drills in the field will be flawless through sheer experience and pragmatism. They come from the Imperium's most infamous deathworld afterall, if your fieldcraft is substandard there you won't even reach puberty.

I never really noticed the rambo theme (aside from the bandanas of course). I always took Catachans to be an analogue for US troop in Vietnam just like Valhallans are WWII era Soviets and Valhallans are Mongols.

Palindrome wrote:


What? If anything Catachans are one of the most professional IG regiments

Not even slightly.

 TheCaptain wrote:

Palindrome wrote:


What? If anything Catachans are one of the most professional IG regiments

Not even slightly.

Just because you fight all the time doesn't make you professional. Mordian Iron Guard are professional. They're always in uniform, follow orders to the letter, and are extremely disciplined. They are the "perfect" type of soldier for the Imperial Guard.

Catachans are one of the LEAST professional regiments you can find in the guard. Little discipline, rebellious, will ignore orders and do things their way, no real dress code, often allow their Commissars to die thanks to "accidents", little respect for the chain of command unless they personally know the officer, etc..

They're great ambushers and masters of jungle warfare, but that's about it. The average IG commander would go into a spasm if he were to inspect a typical Catachan outpost. I'd imagine there'd be so many regulations broken he wouldn't even know where to start. That said, I would love for special rules for all of the IG regiments. Mordian Iron Guard get's bonus LD when doing order tests, Catachan's all have stealth and infiltrate, Armageddon steel legion get a bonus for having their entire army mounted up in chimeras, etc.

 snooggums wrote:

 Color Sgt. Kell wrote:
By the way, can someone tell me what exactly makes the plastic catachans hideous?

Horrendously overmuscled gorilla arms for me.

This.

Cadians look 235% better and are babe approved.

 Vaktathi wrote:

They worked in the 80's and early 90's, but honestly, the Catachan's prime was 20 years ago, there's been so much change in popular culture, scifi, the 40k universe itself, model and sculpting possibilities, etc that they just don't do it for ME anymore.

There fixed that for 'ya There are some of us who do love them models for whatever reason, and will mod and model them that still makes for an impressive army on the table.

its probably because most people have an inbuilt fear of painting flesh. Also since 80 percent of the catachan line
is abs and bare skin you can see where people are turned off when seeing them for the first time.

 TheCaptain wrote:

Not even slightly.

Of course they are. Mordians are professional in a highly disciplined sense while Catachans are professional in a highly experienced, competent sense. Catachans will not fight as a disorganised rabble, they have a much looser command structure than the norm (but their officers are supposed to be highly competent) and they have little time for barrack discipline and drill but on the battlefield they will act with skill and professionalism.

What the hell, with all the crazy stat lines for Catachans? Vets, Forward Sentries upgrade, done. Good representation of Cats, throw flamers in the squads, take some sentinels, load up on a couple of SCs and you've got a fun and fluffy Catachan force.

 htj wrote:
What the hell, with all the crazy stat lines for Catachans? Vets, Forward Sentries upgrade, done. Good representation of Cats, throw flamers in the squads, take some sentinels, load up on a couple of SCs and you've got a fun and fluffy Catachan force.

Except for the fact that that hardly represents Catachan's special skills at all. Just giving them a +1 cover save and calling it a day isn't an appropriate representation of how these guys work. They're ambush fighters, setting traps, sabotaging bridges, attacking at night etc. They know their way around deathworlds like no other IG regiment. They're skilled at close range firefights and hit and run tactics. Just giving vets camo cloaks doesn't really fill that void sadly. Hence why some people complain about doctrines being gone I guess.

I've read through the catachan minidex from 4th ed and I have to say I like the idea they had with it. I think if that got tweaked a bit it would make a great starting point for a fan dex.

 MrMoustaffa wrote:

Except for the fact that that hardly represents Catachan's special skills at all. Just giving them a +1 cover save and calling it a day isn't an appropriate representation of how these guys work. They're ambush fighters, setting traps, sabotaging bridges, attacking at night etc.

Yes, traps like the defensive grenades the forward sentries rule gives them, for instance.

They know their way around deathworlds like no other IG regiment.

Granted, this is less obvious, but how would you implement that in game with any degree of balance?

They're skilled at close range firefights and hit and run tactics.

Sorted - BS4. Hit and run tactics are in the list and the general's hands.

I really think people expect too much of the Catachan regiments. They're exceptionally skilled humans, but they're still just humans. Most differentiation should be in the list style you build, and you can build a really competitive and fluffy list with what's in the dex currently.

Now if they updated the Catachans to look more like U.S. Army Rangers then perhaps I'd play them. As of now, they should just remove them from the shelf and glue them all together into some sort of Catachan katamari ball.

i just really hate the models :(

Have never seen any of those guys fielded yet.

 Viridian wrote:
I think the only reason they went with Stallone (Or how ever you spell his name.) is the fact his movies are like porno's. Lots of blowing up, stabbing, hunting, shooting. That's it... Well that translates to 40k pretty easily.

You are watching some seriously weird porn.

Everyone is too hung up on Rambo. Sly Marbo is Rambo. The Catachan army is not Rambo. They are American Vietnam fighters, like you see in most Vietnam movies - stripped down to their shirts because it is hot, dressed in camo because they're fighting in the woods, etc. And modeled by some guy with a fetish for muscles, unfortunately. The idea is fine, and easily represented by vets, snipers and the like. They just have silly models currently.

Although honestly, skilled jungle born fighters would be better modeled on the Viet Kong than the American forces.

 Hollowman wrote:

 Viridian wrote:
I think the only reason they went with Stallone (Or how ever you spell his name.) is the fact his movies are like porno's. Lots of blowing up, stabbing, hunting, shooting. That's it... Well that translates to 40k pretty easily.

You are watching some seriously weird porn.

Everyone is too hung up on Rambo. Sly Marbo is Rambo. The Catachan army is not Rambo. They are American Vietnam fighters, like you see in most Vietnam movies - stripped down to their shirts because it is hot, dressed in camo because they're fighting in the woods, etc. And modeled by some guy with a fetish for muscles, unfortunately. The idea is fine, and easily represented by vets, snipers and the like. They just have silly models currently.

Although honestly, skilled jungle born fighters would be better modeled on the Viet Kong than the American forces.

they seem pretty legit