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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/10/28 23:01:38
Subject: Eldar: Best heavy choice for 6th?
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Towering Hierophant Bio-Titan
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Very recently started playing eldar so the whole army is pretty new to me.
Ive got the base of the army set up now, but when it comes to heavy support im hitting a brick wall.
I usually play a mix of players and armies, so i really need a well rounded choice for this one.
Falcon: This seems kind of pointless to me.
Its pretty much just a wave serpent, so kind of a waste for a heavy choice.
Prism: Seems pretty nice since its BS4, and the 2 different fire options really are a nice extra to help out against horde or elite armies.
Again though, it just seems as if it wont do a great deal.
Support weapons: These just seem like a poor choice from the start.
Reapers: Expensive, but i guess if i throw them in some cover or on a sky shield i can keep them alive a bit longer.
They seem to be able to lay down some nice firepower though, which is what im looking for.
Wraithlord: Only 3 wounds and a 3+, but i guess its T8 helps out alot here.
Just not really sure how i can best use one.
With only 2 attacks the sword seems a waste as it shouldnt be in combat, it will just act as a tarpit and do nothing.
As a firing platform it works well, but the 2 weapon options arent so great since 2 of the same get TL instead of having 2.
War walker: Love these, i really do.
Only issue is, AV10 and BS3.
They can double up on weapons and get to fire both, which is great, but i really dont see them lasting all that long.
Also, they seem like they get a bit points heavy.
3 of them with twin scatter lasers sets you back 180 points for a unit that may not last all that long.
And for a tank hunting unit, its 270 for brightlances or 210 for missiles.
Just wondering how people get on with using them.
My army as it stands really does lack real firepower.
The troops are currently just a unit of 10 wraithguard and 5 pathfinders, but i may add in some avengers to try and help bolster this a bit more.
Need as much help as possible please as i really cant choose between them as to which will benefit me the most.
Thanks
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/10/28 23:55:47
Subject: Eldar: Best heavy choice for 6th?
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Executing Exarch
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Falcons can be a good place to hold up a farseer in. Give him fortune+guide and runes of warding. Give the falcon an EML and make sure to move 6" a turn. Now you can shoot 3 S8 shots at 4' twin linked, and have a 5++ re rollable save. They really lost their oomph now that you cant score inside one.
Prisms are fairly cheap for their power, and improved slightly in 6th with jink and full S blasts against armor. Best run in pairs.
Support weapons can be fun with 3 D cannons, but otherwise a waste.
Wraithlords are best run in pairs or in a group of three. EML+Lance with 2 flamers is basically required.They should be AT focused shooting platforms.
Reapers are all in it for the exarch. Either fast shot+eml, or crack shot+tempest launcher. The former for AT, the latter AI. The rest of the squad is basically ablative wounds for the exarch.
War walkers need guide, unless your outflanking them with s.cannons just for harrassment. Missiles or scatter lasers with guide support, S.cannons or lasers for outflank. They are great at killing stuff, but a prime target.
I would say prisms, walkers and lords are your best bets.
One squad of walkers+a pair of the others.
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The most important rule of 40K-Page XVII of the 6th edition rulebook, the figure at the top right of the page. "Shake hands with your opponent and thank them for a good battle and fun experience." Then go out for a beer.
Shine bright like Iyanden |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/10/29 01:55:12
Subject: Re:Eldar: Best heavy choice for 6th?
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Proud Phantom Titan
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Falcon: Some people love them given a missile launcher it has 3 str8 shots. Also a transport so nice way to drop a small unit off.
Prism: Personal favorite as it has lots of versatility with it being able to link.
Support weapons: Again i quite like these if i have the points/ spare slot. Shadow weaver is nice for some extra blasts only 90pts for 3
Reapers: Exarch + tempest launcher + crack shot = dead MEQ
Wraithlord: T8 ... you need strength 5 to hurt it. Wraith sight is the only down side.
War walker: Loads of dakka ... very fragile. (also if you able to use IA should change this to wasps)
As for the best? i would have to go with Prism, walkers, reapers, support. Wraithlords and falcon can be nice but require more special lists (and often spamming them), at 2kpts 6 wraithlords are fun (allied MC worth adding) but all the anti tank will be aimed at them.
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2012/10/29 02:09:23
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/10/29 03:33:23
Subject: Eldar: Best heavy choice for 6th?
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Furious Fire Dragon
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I have never played a game without taking 3 war walkers with scatter lasers. If I had 9 walkers, I'd bring them all. Guide on them increases their effectiveness by 50%!! And if you use book powers, presciense and misfortune is godly with these. If I take a foot list I take Wraithlords. They are great fire magnets. Get them cover saves. In a all corners list I usually take 2 prisms and a squad of scatter walkers.
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6th edition Eldar/Dark Eldar stats total- W:14 L:3 T:2
V.S. -5/1/1 -1/0/0 -0/1/0 - 0/1/0 -1/0/0 -2/0/1 4/0/0 1/0/0
PLEASE click my Dragons to feed them :-)
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/10/29 03:36:03
Subject: Eldar: Best heavy choice for 6th?
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Nasty Nob on Warbike with Klaw
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Honestly only eldar lists ive seen in my shop since 6th have been the 8+ invis council lists.
I havnt tried my Eldar out since 5th, Mainly because Fire dragons went to finecast right before I could get the other 1/2 of what i needed ...
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/10/29 03:41:31
Subject: Re:Eldar: Best heavy choice for 6th?
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Perfect Shot Black Templar Predator Pilot
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I run a gunboat Falcon (Scatter Laser + Under Mounted Shuri + Pulse Laser + SS) with Eldrad and a small 6 person seer council. It makes a great boat for offensive shooting from range, throwing it Guide from Eldrad every turn. If the Seer Council gets too low/killed you can throw him in the Falcon for a quick get away. Works extremely well.
Fire Prisms are nice, I run them in groups of 2 almost all the time if I want to bring them. One can be alright if you plan on Guiding it, but unless you can ensure the cannon will hit what it shoots at it can be risky to rely upon.
War Walkers are great. Outflanking with Shuriken (or Scatter depending on if you have the points or your local meta) Cannon is always going to ensure they do wonderful damage. I miss being able to assault with them after Outflanking, many times that was the thing that did the enemy tank in if my shooting was poor. Oh well, still a great choice.
I don't own or use Support weapons. If I was at extremely high point values I would consider getting them for Apoc or something....just to try them out. But would never expect anything great from them.
Wraithlord's are a load of fun. As long as you can ensure the Psyker that is around him stays alive, they are fairly reliable and hard to kill. Dual Flamers have become great with Overwatch and does a good job at making the Wraithlord an all around killer.
Reapers, can be as good as they can be useless. They are a bit expensive for my tastes, and lack the mobility I enjoy in my lists.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/10/29 04:00:50
Subject: Eldar: Best heavy choice for 6th?
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Gore-Soaked Lunatic Witchhunter
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Everything's a bit overpriced in 6e; I like my Falcons since they are much more heavily-armed than Wave Serpents (slightly less accurate, but that's a price you pay for 3 48" range S8 shots) and they can cart around a Seer Council in a pinch, they're definitely too expensive to be seriously competitive but they work well in standard games. Dark Reapers are powerful but slow, use them if you're planning on holding a stationary position or you know you've got access to commanding fire lanes; War Walkers are marvelous and can be useful in every situation if they're armed right, they're better for slower-moving armies. I haven't used Fire Prisms but on paper they look pretty good, highly mobile long-ranged fire. I'm more skeptical about support weapons, the only one that's remotely useful is the D-cannon, and if you've got Imperial Armor 11 there's a tank that's functionally a Fire Prism with a D-cannon plus an alternate fire mode instead of the prism cannon at 125pts base, so there are better ways to get one. Wraithlords are marvelous fire magnets since everyone's so scared of them and they're so tough; I've got one built for assault (two flamers and a Wraithsword) who wanders around eating gunfire and flamering everything he can get near; he's a hundred points and has survived more autocannon hits than I care to remark upon.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/10/29 05:08:20
Subject: Eldar: Best heavy choice for 6th?
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Ladies Love the Vibro-Cannon Operator
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Well, an Eldar player, HS should be maxed out in each competitive list: Warwalkers w/ scatter lasers and naked Fire Prisms are my first choices here.
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Former moderator 40kOnline
Lanchester's square law - please obey in list building!
Illumini: "And thank you for not finishing your post with a " " I'm sorry, but after 7200 's that has to be the most annoying sign-off ever."
Armies: Eldar, Necrons, Blood Angels, Grey Knights; World Eaters (30k); Bloodbound; Cryx, Circle, Cyriss |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/10/29 13:15:31
Subject: Eldar: Best heavy choice for 6th?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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I run warwalkers w/ scatter lasers and 2 wraithlords
Wraithlords are still pretty solid but need to be taken in pairs
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DT:80S+++G+++M+B++I+Pw40k00+D++A(WTF)/areWD100R+++++T(T)DM+ |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/10/29 13:19:27
Subject: Eldar: Best heavy choice for 6th?
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Sinewy Scourge
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I love the warwalkers, although I have to admit I only use Eldar as allies. When forgeowrld is allowed I run a unit of Walkers and a unit of Wasps. Great!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/10/29 13:37:02
Subject: Eldar: Best heavy choice for 6th?
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Ladies Love the Vibro-Cannon Operator
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ironicsilence wrote:I run warwalkers w/ scatter lasers and 2 wraithlords
Wraithlords are still pretty solid but need to be taken in pairs
Wraithlords need to be sticked into cover since they easily go down vs. lascannons and sniper rifles.
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Former moderator 40kOnline
Lanchester's square law - please obey in list building!
Illumini: "And thank you for not finishing your post with a " " I'm sorry, but after 7200 's that has to be the most annoying sign-off ever."
Armies: Eldar, Necrons, Blood Angels, Grey Knights; World Eaters (30k); Bloodbound; Cryx, Circle, Cyriss |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/10/29 15:35:21
Subject: Eldar: Best heavy choice for 6th?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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wuestenfux wrote: ironicsilence wrote:I run warwalkers w/ scatter lasers and 2 wraithlords
Wraithlords are still pretty solid but need to be taken in pairs
Wraithlords need to be sticked into cover since they easily go down vs. lascannons and sniper rifles.
I'm pretty fortunate that the meta in my gaming group doesnt really have people taking many of either, sniper rifles are slowly starting to make a return as people better understand wound allocation but lascannons are hardly ever used in my group as we all have awful luck with them never hitting. In an afternoon of gaming a buddy of mine once went 3-43 with his lascannons. The laws of averages mean nothing to lascannons!
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DT:80S+++G+++M+B++I+Pw40k00+D++A(WTF)/areWD100R+++++T(T)DM+ |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/10/29 18:50:39
Subject: Eldar: Best heavy choice for 6th?
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Regular Dakkanaut
Nocturne
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well if you asked me id say wraithlords. They're one of the coolest looking eldar models and great in games too. Yesterday i used my wraithlord with brightlance and wraithsword and after two turns of shooting, bang! down goes a deff dread. I think theyre a great weapon platform due to their t8 and bs4 stick one in cover and zap away all game.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/10/29 19:06:19
Subject: Eldar: Best heavy choice for 6th?
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Proud Phantom Titan
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One thing that is nice about Wraithlords are they're characters. It does mean they get "precision shots" and "precision strikes". Not only that they can issue challenges and there are few models that can survive a str10 AP2 hit.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/10/29 20:20:11
Subject: Eldar: Best heavy choice for 6th?
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Towering Hierophant Bio-Titan
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Cheers for all the help guys
Currently ive got 2 wraithlords in my army, so glad they seem to be common place in the half decent list.
May have to change the layouts though.
One has twin flamer, shuriken and scatter, the other has flamers, EML and lance.
Pretty much kitted them out for different jobs.
May consider a 3rd wraithlord then, or even 3 walkers.
Hopefully i can present enough threats that the walkers can throw out a few turns of shooting before being blown to pieces.
2 wraithlords and scorpions should give a bit, bit i fear its not enough.
Have been tempted to bring an avatar into the list as it should act like a nice fire magnet and can get cover easily.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/10/29 20:32:22
Subject: Eldar: Best heavy choice for 6th?
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Executing Exarch
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The 2 wraithlord+walker is a good heavy loadout. All of them are fire magnets, two of them are tough as nails, the lords handle the heavy AT while the walkers shoot light armor and massacre anything on foot.
If you want to go Elfzilla a third lord and the avatar can be a lot of fun, but the walkers are a bit more competitive.
Either way the avatar is a great buy in foot lists. Cover is not very important as he has a 4++. Fortune is critical.
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The most important rule of 40K-Page XVII of the 6th edition rulebook, the figure at the top right of the page. "Shake hands with your opponent and thank them for a good battle and fun experience." Then go out for a beer.
Shine bright like Iyanden |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/10/29 20:36:47
Subject: Eldar: Best heavy choice for 6th?
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Towering Hierophant Bio-Titan
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My list is actually a foot list at current.
Have not invested in any armour as of yet as i have an issue keeping it alive or earning back its points in 6th.
I could however go for a twin chart, thus being able to take pretty much what i want.
Avatar seems like a nice fire magnet for his points.
Wraithlords arent really all that expensive though, so taking 4-5 and some walkers would be easy enough.
Troops wise i'd have to expand a bit as i run 10 wraithguard and 5 pathfinders as my troops, but i guess finding the points cant be that hard.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/10/29 21:44:28
Subject: Eldar: Best heavy choice for 6th?
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Devastating Dark Reaper
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I love vanilla fire prisms, i run two of them in all my lists over 1000 points and then i will throw in a wraithlord. I will usually loose one prism around turn 3 but by this time that prism alone has majorly reduced 2 units. Then i will lose the other about turn 5. They are a really nice addition to your army: lovely models both old and new, great guns and not as big a fire magnet as most people think (until they start blasting apart terminator squads haha) i also run with a footdar list at the moment so they add some lovely mobility.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/10/29 21:45:17
"The tactical power of the Dakair craftworld will destroy the imperium for selfishly exploiting the maiden worlds that so rightfully belong to us!" Yaralii azur Farseer of Dakair.
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/446451.page My Eldar WIP blog!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/10/30 01:04:55
Subject: Re:Eldar: Best heavy choice for 6th?
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Emboldened Warlock
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I run 2 ranged AT Wraithlords + Warp Hunter. I have found with that combo that almost everything dies reliably under the sheer weight of pain. It also helps that the WL's get a bit of a reprieve coz most people are freaking out at the Wraith Seer (S10, T8, W4 with a D-cannon and 3+/5++).
If you can take FW models; the Warp Hunter I have found to be more reliable than the fire prism. Aether rift is amazing and frankly; perma wounds on 2+ ID on 5+ AI and glance 3+ pen 5+ AT is just evil. Fun, but evil.
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So far the effectiveness of 10 Wraithblades with Ghost Axes:
Tanked 2 Leman Russ squadrons (including the battle cannons and the triple plasma variant); whilst also getting wailed on by everything imaginable in a Fortress of Redemption. Only to get into CC with the tanks and open them up.
2000 points worth of Necrons with Forgeworld additions. Got into CC with a court of Lords and opened them up.
Killed a GUO.
Killed Angrath the Gargantuan Bloodthirster in an Apoc game (with the help of Iranna the Spirit Seer).
Ate a Hammerhead, pathfinders and scored after 3 turns of walking towards a 2000 point Tau gunline and overwatch!
And counting............ |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/10/30 11:57:26
Subject: Eldar: Best heavy choice for 6th?
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[DCM]
Moustache-twirling Princeps
Gone-to-ground in the craters of Coventry
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I don't think anyone's mentioned the Night Spinner yet:
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/article.jsp?categoryId=cat440244a&aId=15100016a
115 points for a barrage weapon that devastates hordes and foot assault armies.
It's also S6, so takes on light transports.
All from behind cover.
I use a squadron of 3 WW with 2xSL each when I can afford them, and always the Night Spinner in games of 1000+ points.
I'll be mixing them with 2 WL when I've built my 2nd one. I was hoping to use them with swords, but I can't see them getting across the table in one piece, even with Fortune, as I can only do one at a time with a Farseer. I might have to put Eldrad with them.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/10/30 11:58:09
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/10/30 15:17:08
Subject: Eldar: Best heavy choice for 6th?
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Water-Caste Negotiator
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I'd vote for the Warp Hunter, personally. 36" range large blast D-Cannon with barrage on a Fire Prism hull? For 125pts? Yes, please.
Oh, and as an added bonus, it can pull Helldrake-style thrown flamer template shenanigans.. only this one's AP2 and always wounds on a 2+.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/10/30 17:38:53
Subject: Eldar: Best heavy choice for 6th?
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Perfect Shot Black Templar Predator Pilot
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Skinnereal wrote:I don't think anyone's mentioned the Night Spinner yet:
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/article.jsp?categoryId=cat440244a&aId=15100016a
115 points for a barrage weapon that devastates hordes and foot assault armies.
It's also S6, so takes on light transports.
All from behind cover.
I use a squadron of 3 WW with 2xSL each when I can afford them, and always the Night Spinner in games of 1000+ points.
I'll be mixing them with 2 WL when I've built my 2nd one. I was hoping to use them with swords, but I can't see them getting across the table in one piece, even with Fortune, as I can only do one at a time with a Farseer. I might have to put Eldrad with them.
I always forget about the Night Spinner. I never find a need for it, I feel the other units are far too useful to consider it seriously.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/10/30 21:59:27
Subject: Eldar: Best heavy choice for 6th?
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Proud Phantom Titan
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One reason this will never work ... the weapons a small blast. 2-3 models per shot is not worth it (even more so since its AP-). You want that type of damage you can get 3 heavy support weapons with a warlock for the same price but will get 3 blasts
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/10/30 21:59:41
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/10/30 22:06:37
Subject: Eldar: Best heavy choice for 6th?
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Regular Dakkanaut
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Tri wrote:
One reason this will never work ... the weapons a small blast. 2-3 models per shot is not worth it (even more so since its AP-). You want that type of damage you can get 3 heavy support weapons with a warlock for the same price but will get 3 blasts
Incorrect. It is a large blast. There is a tabulation error on the weapon profile; look at the left end to find the "large".
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I am a grammar Nazi only because grammar democracy is ineffective. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/10/31 00:05:48
Subject: Eldar: Best heavy choice for 6th?
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Proud Phantom Titan
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Tuagh wrote: Tri wrote:
One reason this will never work ... the weapons a small blast. 2-3 models per shot is not worth it (even more so since its AP-). You want that type of damage you can get 3 heavy support weapons with a warlock for the same price but will get 3 blasts
Incorrect. It is a large blast. There is a tabulation error on the weapon profile; look at the left end to find the "large".
Your correct never noticed that (or did never used it and forgot about) ... i still think its a rubbish, had you take a fire prism you would at least be able to ignore the enemies armour save. If i shoot something i don't want it to have a save if i can help it.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/10/31 01:22:16
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/10/31 03:55:09
Subject: Re:Eldar: Best heavy choice for 6th?
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Regular Dakkanaut
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That is a valid opinion, but misses the point slightly. A Nightspinner is not dedicated anti MEQ, nor is it amazing anti-tank; it is horde insurance that can fulfill secondary roles adequately when its preferred target is unavailable. There is no target (other than a flyer) that it cannot engage with at least a marginal degree of success, and against its ideal targets (large groups with poor saves) it is wonderfully brutal.
If your list packs enough Fire Dragons for anti-mech duty you can do far worse than a Nightspinner to fill in your heavy support.
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I am a grammar Nazi only because grammar democracy is ineffective. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/10/31 04:21:24
Subject: Eldar: Best heavy choice for 6th?
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Killer Klaivex
Oceanside, CA
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Aren't support batteries T6 or something now?
Seems pretty good to me.
-Matt
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/10/31 05:17:59
Subject: Eldar: Best heavy choice for 6th?
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Emboldened Warlock
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HawaiiMatt wrote:Aren't support batteries T6 or something now?
Seems pretty good to me.
-Matt
T7 IIRC
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So far the effectiveness of 10 Wraithblades with Ghost Axes:
Tanked 2 Leman Russ squadrons (including the battle cannons and the triple plasma variant); whilst also getting wailed on by everything imaginable in a Fortress of Redemption. Only to get into CC with the tanks and open them up.
2000 points worth of Necrons with Forgeworld additions. Got into CC with a court of Lords and opened them up.
Killed a GUO.
Killed Angrath the Gargantuan Bloodthirster in an Apoc game (with the help of Iranna the Spirit Seer).
Ate a Hammerhead, pathfinders and scored after 3 turns of walking towards a 2000 point Tau gunline and overwatch!
And counting............ |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/10/31 12:11:17
Subject: Re:Eldar: Best heavy choice for 6th?
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Proud Phantom Titan
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Tuagh wrote:That is a valid opinion, but misses the point slightly. A Nightspinner is not dedicated anti MEQ, nor is it amazing anti-tank; it is horde insurance that can fulfill secondary roles adequately when its preferred target is unavailable. There is no target (other than a flyer) that it cannot engage with at least a marginal degree of success, and against its ideal targets (large groups with poor saves) it is wonderfully brutal.
If your list packs enough Fire Dragons for anti-mech duty you can do far worse than a Nightspinner to fill in your heavy support.
Fire prism ... large blast Str5 AP4 .... just as good as the Nightspinner if not better as it can also ignore armour saves.
Support weapon battery (3x)... Shadow weaver, 3 small blasts Str6 AP- blast ... slightly worse as it doesn't pin or hurt the enemy if they move but also slightly better as the unit counts as T7.
Warwalker (2x).. Scatter lasers Str6 AP6 ... lots of things will get a save from this but you'll hit roughly 8 people each time which again makes it better.
Heck even ...
Dark reapers (3x) (note 147pts so 32pts more) ... tempest launcher 2 str4 ap3 blast that ignore cover and reroll wounds ...
... I just don't see a roll for Nightspinner since every other option does its job better while also being better at other things.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/10/31 14:36:14
Subject: Eldar: Best heavy choice for 6th?
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Executing Exarch
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I think you can't go too far wrong with wraithlords and prisms.
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2012/10/31 14:39:13
Blacksails wrote:
Its because ordinance is still a word.
However, firing ordinance at someone isn't nearly as threatening as firing ordnance at someone.
Ordinance is a local law, or bill, or other form of legislation.
Ordnance is high caliber explosives.
No 'I' in ordnance.
Don't drown the enemy in legislation, drown them in explosives. |
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