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@cincydooley. I find your lack of faith disturbing.

I wonder if Outlaw is planning to release railroad tracks/other associated scenery since they're bringing out that massive train as scenery. One would certainly hope so. If they're clever about it, they'd build the train to go on O scale model railroad tracks, since that way they could just refer hobbyists to the plethora of products available for that particular niche, especially in the US. It'd be slighty too big for the scale, even 35mm, but that'd be excusable in a game of spider-mechs, zombie cyborgs and robot lawmen.

Again, everyone... let's stay on topic and polite in here, please!

 Agamemnon2 wrote:
I wonder if Outlaw is planning to release railroad tracks/other associated scenery since they're bringing out that massive train as scenery. One would certainly hope so. If they're clever about it, they'd build the train to go on O scale model railroad tracks, since that way they could just refer hobbyists to the plethora of products available for that particular niche, especially in the US. It'd be slighty too big for the scale, even 35mm, but that'd be excusable in a game of spider-mechs, zombie cyborgs and robot lawmen.

Oh man, if they did that... I'd be pledging for this one in a heartbeat!

Hey, you could even build a gaming table that doubled as a layout.

Guys, There is indeed a track that will be produced for the train.
I can't recall where I saw it but, I am sure Outlaw mentioned that it would protrude 10" out from the front and the back.
I think they intend to release extra tracks when the train is released in...... October I think, don't quote me though.

In regards to scale, it will be O scale, as I have seen it posted on the forums by a guy that is into his trains (no experience myself, so I haven't a clue what O scale is tbh).

The terrain will be a scenario piece from what I can gather. It won't be a MUST have, as you can make something up yourself. But it will be useful. It will cost $165 during the kick-starter for the 4 carriages but I am not sure how much the track will cost or in what sort aof bulk you can buy them.

Hope this helps.

This game makes me want to build a wild west electric train table set. Would be a lot of fun to build and play on a table with an actual moving train on it, if your movement ends on tracks and that train circles around, insta death :^)

primalexile wrote:
This game makes me want to build a wild west electric train table set. Would be a lot of fun to build and play on a table with an actual moving train on it, if your movement ends on tracks and that train circles around, insta death :^)

LOL, would be cool!! Wonder if you could scope out the middle of the Union Rail Train and stick a normal electric one inside?

So, can anyone give me reason as to why I should back this KS? I'd look at the KS page, but kickstarter.com is work blocked?

I've read over the first few pages and the most recent pages, but I guess... what does this game offer that other wild west games don't?

It is a Western game meets Sci Fi. The rules are clear and concise and if you like the model range that is all the reason to back. I am not a backer due to not really liking the model ranges but the game has a lot of potential. I have playtested the rules and they are pretty fun.

primalexile wrote:
It is a Western game meets Sci Fi. The rules are clear and concise and if you like the model range that is all the reason to back. I am not a backer due to not really liking the model ranges but the game has a lot of potential. I have playtested the rules and they are pretty fun.

What's the d10 system like? Can I get a rundown on the mechanics? I'm kinda limited at work atm.

I saw the scale is 35mm, which doesn't concern me, as that's all standard, people freak out when it's not 28 or 32, but don't realize that's usually to the eyes. So if these guys are 35mm to the eyes, they won't be horribly out of scale.

Is it I go, you go? Or alternating activation? How many minis am I expected to have on the board? how big is the board?

 Alfndrate wrote:
So, can anyone give me reason as to why I should back this KS? I'd look at the KS page, but kickstarter.com is work blocked?

I've read over the first few pages and the most recent pages, but I guess... what does this game offer that other wild west games don't?

I was toying with backing just to supplement Malifaux/Deadlands figures for RPG purposes. If its a good game in and of itself, thats jut gravy.

Bossk_Hogg wrote:

 Alfndrate wrote:
So, can anyone give me reason as to why I should back this KS? I'd look at the KS page, but kickstarter.com is work blocked?

I've read over the first few pages and the most recent pages, but I guess... what does this game offer that other wild west games don't?

I was toying with backing just to supplement Malifaux/Deadlands figures for RPG purposes. If its a good game in and of itself, thats jut gravy.

I don't play deadlands, and I'm currently not a huge fan of the models, some of them just look plain derpy (I'm looking at you big horsie on the first page)... If terrain was the other half of this KS I could see myself going for that instead...

Hi Alf, The I think in order for you to get a better feel for it, you would be best waiting to get home from work, hehe.

You only need a small amount of figures, as it is a skirmish game where you activate 1-3 models (Light SUpport Vehicles can have 1-3 in a unit)
and then it will be your mates turn to activate a bloke.

You can scale the game from 450pts to 1250pts (currently in the Charlie rules) 450pt games have approx 10 blokes.
A boss is approx 150pts and troops are 20-25pts, so you can appreciate that there are not many troops in your posse.

Different men add different amount of influence tokens. These can be used to reroll dice, but have to be declared prior to rolling.
If you don't need to roll the dice as you got what you needed, the influence tokens are still removed from your pool.

Depending on what you want from the site, there are different pledge levels, some of which contain terrain pieces from Micro Arts Studio.

I would strongly suggest that you visit the KS page when you have some free time. There is no rush as there are currently 10 days remaining on the project.

hope this helps buddy, Let me know if you need any more help.

 Madmick wrote:
Hi Alf, The I think in order for you to get a better feel for it, you would be best waiting to get home from work, hehe.

Nah, cause I spend most of my time at home painting and writing

You only need a small amount of figures, as it is a skirmish game where you activate 1-3 models (Light SUpport Vehicles can have 1-3 in a unit)
and then it will be your mates turn to activate a bloke.

So it's Alternating Activation with some squad mechanics...

You can scale the game from 450pts to 1250pts (currently in the Charlie rules) 450pt games have approx 10 blokes.
A boss is approx 150pts and troops are 20-25pts, so you can appreciate that there are not many troops in your posse.

at 450 points, I'm looking at 13 models on the board, assuming 1 boss and 300 points of 25pt troops... that's not too bad, and you have vehicles? eh...

Different men add different amount of influence tokens. These can be used to reroll dice, but have to be declared prior to rolling.
If you don't need to roll the dice as you got what you needed, the influence tokens are still removed from your pool.

I'm not a huge fan of that mechanic... I don't like spending a reroll that I might not get to use, I don't mind boosting in games like WM/H because you generally boost to ensure a hit/damage, or to try and hit/damage. if I spend points on a reroll, I better get a reroll... I could see you being able to spend a token to reroll the dice after the fact because then you can save your influence tokens for something that you could really use them on.

Depending on what you want from the site, there are different pledge levels, some of which contain terrain pieces from Micro Arts Studio.

I would strongly suggest that you visit the KS page when you have some free time. There is no rush as there are currently 10 days remaining on the project.

I know how a kickstarter works just haven't seen the various levels.

Could you PM me the team in charge at Outlaw Miniatures if you know them too? Some of this stuff looks familiar... just curious.

There are other troops to, like Iron Horses 3 for 80 points, Under Bosses and side kicks which very in points dependant on their abilities.

You don't have to use them just for re-rolling. you can use them to seize the initiative. The fact that you use them first is a gamble, so puts a bit of theme into it imho.
Also in WM/H you can boost rolls but that does not make them a sure thing to work, so it is very similar in outcomes.

Alessio Cavatore is doing the rules
Romeo + Jama Filip,
Chad (not sure of his role. I think he dances to entertain the troops tbh) hehe. Hope he can't read ><
Tom is the Painter,
Craig Gallant - Writer,
Vince Rospond - Editor,
Mike Nigro - Comic Artist
+ about 6 others,so quite a good set up I think.

Hope this helps buddy.

 Madmick wrote:
You don't have to use them just for re-rolling. you can use them to seize the initiative. The fact that you use them first is a gamble, so puts a bit of theme into it imho.
Also in WM/H you can boost rolls but that does not make them a sure thing to work, so it is very similar in outcomes.

Except that the outcome is different. I spend my focus/fury to add a die, which increases my odds to to hit/damage. If I have a flat stat of 5, and I need to hit something that has a 14 DEF, I need to roll a 9 that means I have the chance of hitting him on a 4,5; 4,6; 5,4; 5,5; 5,6; 6,4; and 6,6. Once you add in all the other possible combinations you have a 33% chance of hitting (if my math is right). If I add in a third die, I increase the chances of hitting by increasing the range on the dice that I can with, like three 3s, two 3s and a four, etc... If I roll 3 dice and end up getting a 4 and a 5 that I need, then the 3rd die wasn't "need" but it did increase my chances of getting those numbers that I need. And I add them together.

If I spend an influence token to re-roll the die, say I need to get an 8, 9, or 10 on the die to hit, that's about 1/3rd of a chance of hitting (about the same as what I needed to hit in Warmachine). If I hit him, then I waste the reroll and I'm out of an influence token. If I miss then I get my reroll, but my odds of hitting haven't changed, since I don't add the second die to the first.

Alessio Cavatore is doing the rules
Romeo + Jama Filip,
Chad (not sure of his role. I think he dances to entertain the troops tbh) hehe. Hope he can't read ><
Tom is the Painter,
Craig Gallant - Writer,
Vince Rospond - Editor,
Mike Nigro - Comic Artist
+ about 6 others,so quite a good set up I think.

Interesting cast of characters... what do the Filip guys do? Just curious

I'm curious. Why was my post earlier deleted, when it had relevance and information to the 'sockpuppet marketting' issue, by identifying obvious sockpuppets such as this: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/user/profile/70015.page

Really, must one sink to those levels to try and get your kickstarter's attention out? And is soliciting moderators to delete posts REALLY the way you want to market your company's brand?

It seems as if we are going to have to disagree on the Influence tokens buddy. As I see it as just another statistic outcome that has to be managed/gambled

It is their brain child so to speak, he came up with the idea. I think there are some podcasts around with him speaking about it (Adepticon I think). But you need to do some homework when you get in I feel, as there is soooo much info on it I could not feasibly cover all the possible info as there have been 65 updates so far. They also have given bags to a lot of the pledge goals, and quite good ones to I am told. the Outlaw (432) and the Bandit (C4). I think these are the ones, as they look pretty similar in design, just with an awesome logo on the side.

You have a lot of time off at work btw, any jobs going? hehe

It's Friday afternoon and my brain is fried--but if I understand the influence token correctly, it will increase your odds;

No rereroll
Need a 6+ to hit on a 10 sided die
6/10 = 3/5 chance to hit
2/5 chance to fail

With reroll
Need a 6+ to hit on a 10 sided die
6/10 = 3/5 chance to hit
Chance to fail changes from 2/5 to 4/25 (chance to fail twice in a row is 1/5 * 1/5)


Really, what you are caluclating is not your chance to hit twice in a row--but the odds of you failing to roll a certain number twice in a row (with the influence token). Unless I'm misunderstanding the mechanic.


On an aside-- a steampunk train set would be an instant purchase for me (WM/Hordes--but still money in their pocket!)

@Killionaire,

I am not sure what you mean by "Sockpuppet" matey. i followed that link and it took me to a person called stormbird. Actually, Outlaw Miniatures has ran around the last few weeks and has bent over backwards to help us all out on the WWX KS. I am really looking forward to getting into contact with the people on their forum. And the staff have done a lot to help out the WWX community tbh. They are even changing a few designs around as was requested by some of the backers.

I am sorry if this is not your view, but I can not support your dislike for someone if they have done no harm to me. Look how many people do not like GW, they still have a lot of fans. I am not really one of them as I am not overly keen on their product any more. However, for those that are fans of GW. I am glad they are getting what they want. There is a product for everyone, and this is one in which I like and wish to support. I can only hope you find some happiness in this and it explains your attendance to this thread.

Do you have a certain faction you have in mind Killionaire? As I can see that you are American, you would have a vastly superior knowledge of the Wild West than I. unfortunately, I never did history as school, something I really regret now at my age. I can however learn a bit from this game, so I am hoping that the wild west is indeed wild. I do not expect to learn the Abe Lincoln carried a big axe though, lol

 Killionaire wrote:
I'm curious. Why was my post earlier deleted, when it had relevance and information to the 'sockpuppet marketting' issue, by identifying obvious sockpuppets such as this: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/user/profile/70015.page

Really, must one sink to those levels to try and get your kickstarter's attention out? And is soliciting moderators to delete posts REALLY the way you want to market your company's brand?

It's pretty obvious, in my opinion, and not a great business model. I'd say that it's definitely a mark against a company I might have been more interested in, otherwise. I agree, it shouldn't have been moderated out (assuming the tone wasn't breaking forum rules-- I didn't see the post)

 AgeOfEgos wrote:
It's Friday afternoon and my brain is fried--but if I understand the influence token correclty, it will increase your odds;

No rereroll
Need a 6+ to hit on a 10 sided die
6/10 = 3/5 chance to hit
2/5 chance to fail

With reroll
Need a 6+ to hit on a 10 sided die
6/10 = 3/5 chance to hit
Chance to fail changes from 2/5 to 4/25 (chance to fail twice in a row is 1/5 * 1/5)


Really, what you are caluclating is not your chance to hit twice in a row--but the odds of you failing to roll a certain number twice in a row (with the influence token). Unless I'm misunderstanding the mechanic.


On an aside-- a steampunk train set would be an instant purchase for me (WM/Hordes--but still money in their pocket!)

I understand the stats are different if you use differ mechanics, but I am not really interested in min / maxing tbh. If they wanted to improve the odds the would increase the odds by changing the profile. Any way, I digress, hehe. I am just playing to have fun. I used to mend radars once upon a time, so it makes a nice change not to number crunch for me. But everyone is different.

The train should unlock in.........../goes to check KS......... $1,400 So you may be in luck buddy, I think your WM/H table may have a transformation very soon

 Madmick wrote:
I understand the stats are different if you use differ mechanics, but I am not really interested in min / maxing tbh. If they wanted to improve the odds the would increase the odds by changing the profile. Any way, I digress, hehe. I am just playing to have fun. I used to mend radars once upon a time, so it makes a nice change not to number crunch for me. But everyone is different.

The train should unlock in.........../goes to check KS......... $1,400 So you may be in luck buddy, I think your WM/H table may have a transformation very soon

I'm not sure what you mean regarding the mechanic--my post was actually in support of the functionality of it (as compared to just offering a 10% increase to hit via hard numbers). Again, if I understand the mechanic correctly.

Good news about the train~~steampunk terrain is actually rather lacking and I'm sure some of this terrain will be usable within WM/Hordes.

 AgeOfEgos wrote:
It's Friday afternoon and my brain is fried--but if I understand the influence token correctly, it will increase your odds;

No rereroll
Need a 6+ to hit on a 10 sided die
6/10 = 3/5 chance to hit
2/5 chance to fail

With reroll
Need a 6+ to hit on a 10 sided die
6/10 = 3/5 chance to hit
Chance to fail changes from 2/5 to 4/25 (chance to fail twice in a row is 1/5 * 1/5)


Really, what you are caluclating is not your chance to hit twice in a row--but the odds of you failing to roll a certain number twice in a row (with the influence token). Unless I'm misunderstanding the mechanic.


On an aside-- a steampunk train set would be an instant purchase for me (WM/Hordes--but still money in their pocket!)

The problem is that even calculating the chances of missing twice in a row, the reroll has no bearing on the first roll. I was never great with statistics tbh. My only thing is wasting the influence token on a reroll I may not need...

@Age,

Sorry buddy, I thought you were suggesting that the Influence mechanics were to offer a reduced probability and therefore inferior to another mechanic, hehe. I just think that if a game designer want to make a model have a 30% hit chance, he will make it so whatever the mechanic. So I don't really factor these variable into the game as such. But I think that the influence mechanic is to represent the gambling times of the era perhaps. So some thought has gone into making this a factor of the game. Maybe in the future they could change to a different gamble mechanic, who knows?

I am just in it because it seems so fresh and full of friendly faces that want to pursue a new game and learn to help build it. well, i do anyway


Automatically Appended Next Post:
@Alfndrate,

but that is the gamble buddy. The other person has the same mechanics, so there is no hardship, only risk management.

 Madmick wrote:
@Alfndrate,

but that is the gamble buddy. The other person has the same mechanics, so there is no hardship, only risk management.

But it's not worth it to gamble... Also running my Warbeasts with full fury is risk management .

Not much of a risk if I use my influence tokens in other things...

Idk, I'll probably pass on t his... some of the minis kind bug me, the influence mechanic doesn't interest me, and while I won't go into it because people have already been threatened with bans over comments about it, but I personally am not a fan of my dealings with Battlefoam, and so while I don't hold a grudge against Romeo, I try not to do business with him as a customer anymore...

 Alfndrate wrote:
The problem is that even calculating the chances of missing twice in a row, the reroll has no bearing on the first roll. I was never great with statistics tbh. My only thing is wasting the influence token on a reroll I may not need...

Well, the same could be said within WM. If I need a 6 to hit and opt not to boost I'm looking at a 72% chance to hit. If I threw three dice with a boost, I increase that chance to 95%. I would not 'know' that boost was wasted unless I first rolled two die--then rolled a third. In fact, there are abilities within Warmahordes that do just that (I believe Molik's Future Sight allows him to roll before deciding to add a boost).

That said, I understand your position. I remember seeing a bell curve probability chart someone wrote out with Warmahordes that included hitting vs. a certain Armor--and really got it into my gut what that 2d6 did for that game.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Madmick wrote:
@Age,

Sorry buddy, I thought you were suggesting that the Influence mechanics were to offer a reduced probability and therefore inferior to another mechanic, hehe. I just think that if a game designer want to make a model have a 30% hit chance, he will make it so whatever the mechanic. So I don't really factor these variable into the game as such. But I think that the influence mechanic is to represent the gambling times of the era perhaps. So some thought has gone into making this a factor of the game. Maybe in the future they could change to a different gamble mechanic, who knows?

Hey no worries--I might still be misunderstanding it anyways . Most game systems just take existing mechanics, name it to fit the theme and add some variety/player choice to rolls/statistics. Warmahordes being one of the most successful IMHO with the 2d6 probability curve. Games Workshop on the other hand has a more difficult time adding variety when they are tied to a 1d6/16% margin.

I think the Gamble mechanic sounds good as I understand it--and certainly feels fluffy from what I've seen of the backdrop.

@Alfndrate,

I didn't think you sounded very interested to be honest matey and I agree it does not sound as though you like anything about it, but horses for courses and all that

As I say, you really need to see the website for details as this is chinese whispers sort of thing. If you are to busy due to writing or painting to boot your computer up, I find it difficult to understand how you get time to play. At least by doing so you can make a better informed decision. A man with a keen eye for stats should appreciate that surely?

 AgeOfEgos wrote:

 Alfndrate wrote:
The problem is that even calculating the chances of missing twice in a row, the reroll has no bearing on the first roll. I was never great with statistics tbh. My only thing is wasting the influence token on a reroll I may not need...

Well, the same could be said within WM. If I need a 6 to hit and opt not to boost I'm looking at a 72% chance to hit. If I threw three dice with a boost, I increase that chance to 95%. I would not 'know' that boost was wasted unless I first rolled two die--then rolled a third. In fact, there are abilities within Warmahordes that do just that (I believe Molik's Future Sight allows him to roll before deciding to add a boost).

He does as do some other cyclops (like the savage). The issue that I have is if I spend the focus or a fury I get the third die and have the immediate "benefit". I then roll and if I miss, those are the odds. If I spend an influence token and I don't need the reroll, it's a waste and I lose the token.

Like I said, the mechanic doesn't sit well with me.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Madmick wrote:
@Alfndrate,

I didn't think you sounded very interested to be honest matey and I agree it does not sound as though you like anything about it, but horses for courses and all that

As I say, you really need to see the website for details as this is chinese whispers sort of thing. If you are to busy due to writing or painting to boot your computer up, I find it difficult to understand how you get time to play. At least by doing so you can make a better informed decision. A man with a keen eye for stats should appreciate that surely?

I play every Friday night, it's the only night that I can play wargames. Monday through Thursday I "try" to paint, and I do development for a game that I'm working on for a company.

Edit: You could have just quoted things from the website...

@Age,

Agreed matey. I hated rolling so many dice all the time. it fifn't really make me feel EPIC to roll a bucket of dice each turn, instead it made me feel tired. hehe

I think I am growing into a skirmish player tbh. Have a TON of infinity models still needing attention, so I guess that will occupy my time till september, when I bold down the hatches and frantically assemble my Warrior Nation


Automatically Appended Next Post:
@Alfndrate,

Whilst I have really enjoyed chatting to you matey, I think there comes a time when you need to seek some answers for yourself.

I don't mind chatting to you about things in general, but I can't copy and paste the internet for you, hehe.

I think it takes more effort for you to ask all the questions than to just click on there site, hehe.

I am however happy to help where I can buddy. I hope you enjoy your gaming night tonight, hope the dice gods are with you, as I never see them. hehe


Automatically Appended Next Post:
JUst an additional thought, could you not sign up to the updates and then get the emails sent to you? That should help your situation?