Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

The corrupt level is not exactly an entry based pledge level..... I'd hardly use that level as a good barometer for what you're "getting".

Yeah, when you're pledging a thousand dollars, that's definitely not the "sweet" spot, nor is it a good judge of what you're getting and the value that it represents, at those numbers the value starts to get skewed.

A better judge would be the Wicked level, since the majority of your backers are at that pledge level. So for 115 dollars you're getting 24 minis, a rulebook, and w/e the stretch goals are getting you (so what a total of 28 minis total?)

Assuming 35 for the rulebook, that's not too bad of a price for the minis...

Mick, have you played the game? I know you kept telling me to try the rules, but have you done it? Could you give a write up of your experiences?

Edit: My math is off, it's still an okay deal imo.

The deal is still pretty solid. I just don't think isn't the $1k level as an example is entirely appropriate :-)

I like the new enlighted HH, just wished they were wires connecting the mechanical and biological parts together

@Cincydooly,
I really do feel that $1,000 is a nice entry level, why? Because I'm a lunatic for these types of things. LOL
I will also fail at every attempt to understand anything different, lol. I may try and get a photo up of my "To Do" list (about £8000 of unpainted/un built models!) lol.
I have these, as I plan to become a miniature painting artist (So I can work from home due to injury).
At first I didn't like the idea of parting with my plastic, now I want to get rid so I can get WWX >< doh!!

Not got to play WWX yet, so only read the rules tbh. I have problems getting about so gaming is limited due to feeling drunk on meds :(
I have read the rule set and watched the videos, but as it is still being altered in the Charlie to Beta stage,
I am not really worried about not getting chance just yet. But I do hope that a few people from Maelstrom games, now eye of the storm, get into it.

 Madmick wrote:
@Cincydooly,
I really do feel that $1,000 is a nice entry level, why? Because I'm a lunatic for these types of things. LOL
I will also fail at every attempt to understand anything different, lol. I may try and get a photo up of my "To Do" list (about £8000 of unpainted/un built models!) lol.
I have these, as I plan to become a miniature painting artist (So I can work from home due to injury).
At first I didn't like the idea of parting with my plastic, now I want to get rid so I can get WWX >< doh!!

Not got to play WWX yet, so only read the rules tbh. I have problems getting about so gaming is limited due to feeling drunk on meds :(
I have read the rule set and watched the videos, but as it is still being altered in the Charlie to Beta stage,
I am not really worried about not getting chance just yet. But I do hope that a few people from Maelstrom games, now eye of the storm, get into it.

Entry level appeals to the lowest common denominator... Not everyone can afford to drop 1000 dollars on a game they've never played.

But let me get this straight...

You've dropped at least 1000 dollars for a game that
1) You've never played
2) You probably won't play

Also the things that happen in the "charlie" rule phase and the beta usually don't change, at least the overall mechanics...

Some folks love models. Give one example of a succussful minis game where people didn't pledge over a grand on kickstarter? You won't find a kickstarter with that being the case. Mike is hardly a unique case. Sure, wicked is probably a more reasonable level, and about a third of the backers are currently on that level. To each their own on that one. And it's those few Mikes who unlock a few extras goals for the masses.

Im not a fan of the enlightened new or old in particular. I hope there are still some bi-pedal enlightened as well. Wave 2 should unlock shortly so that will give a variety of options if that's the case.

Im shocked people are still acting like lawmen don't have a chance. If you are waiting for them, you may want to put a reminder up for the game, as they are certainly very much obtainable. Most miniature kickstarters double the last week or so.

Earth Dragon wrote:
Some folks love models. Give one example of a succussful minis game where people didn't pledge over a grand on kickstarter? You won't find a kickstarter with that being the case. Mike is hardly a unique case. Sure, wicked is probably a more reasonable level, and about a third of the backers are currently on that level. To each their own on that one. And it's those few Mikes who unlock a few extras goals for the masses.

Im not a fan of the enlightened new or old in particular. I hope there are still some bi-pedal enlightened as well. Wave 2 should unlock shortly so that will give a variety of options if that's the case.

Im shocked people are still acting like lawmen don't have a chance. If you are waiting for them, you may want to put a reminder up for the game, as they are certainly very much obtainable. Most miniature kickstarters double the last week or so.

I love models just as much as anyone, but if Madmick has some spare cash lying around, hows about he throws some of it my way? I highly doubt you all are going to get the lawmen unlocked. You would have to have 142,000 dollars in 6 days... That's just under 24 thousand dollars a day. That means you have to fund this project 7 times over to make the Lawmen... A snowball has a better chance in hell...

Earth Dragon wrote:
Some folks love models. Give one example of a succussful minis game where people didn't pledge over a grand on kickstarter? You won't find a kickstarter with that being the case. Mike is hardly a unique case. Sure, wicked is probably a more reasonable level, and about a third of the backers are currently on that level. To each their own on that one. And it's those few Mikes who unlock a few extras goals for the masses.

Well that's not really true. The % of money is pretty evenly split between the pledge levels. And you're certainly more
Likely to find 5 willing buddies to drop $200 on an untested game system than 1 willing to drop $1K.

The fact remains, and the numbers substantiate, that using the $1K pledge as an exemplar isn't appropriate. I mention it because he included "freebies" that we're added to his level and not the "sweet spot" level. That's all.

An interesting tid bit. Outlaw just posted this is a skirmish game first and an army game second. So that is usually telling of where the main focus is on balance when fine tuning.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Yes. I agree with you Cincy that it should be personal information for the most part. Bad form to wave it around.

Though it is not unusual to pledge high and those individuals really do push the projects past goals leading up to the end rush.

Also, I think $375K is attainable. Relic Knights and Sedktion wars did $225k and $200k respectively in their last day, and even a smaller project like Rivet Wars did over $100k in the last day.

 Alfndrate wrote:

Earth Dragon wrote:
Some folks love models. Give one example of a succussful minis game where people didn't pledge over a grand on kickstarter? You won't find a kickstarter with that being the case. Mike is hardly a unique case. Sure, wicked is probably a more reasonable level, and about a third of the backers are currently on that level. To each their own on that one. And it's those few Mikes who unlock a few extras goals for the masses.

Im not a fan of the enlightened new or old in particular. I hope there are still some bi-pedal enlightened as well. Wave 2 should unlock shortly so that will give a variety of options if that's the case.

Im shocked people are still acting like lawmen don't have a chance. If you are waiting for them, you may want to put a reminder up for the game, as they are certainly very much obtainable. Most miniature kickstarters double the last week or so.

I love models just as much as anyone, but if Madmick has some spare cash lying around, hows about he throws some of it my way? I highly doubt you all are going to get the lawmen unlocked. You would have to have 142,000 dollars in 6 days... That's just under 24 thousand dollars a day. That means you have to fund this project 7 times over to make the Lawmen... A snowball has a better chance in hell...

If you haven't witnessed the $300k last days of some of these projects, doubling the amount of backers, I could see how you'd think that. Point is it HAS happened, and Texas did freeze over a few years ago.

@Alfndrate,
Hi, You are correct in your reasoning that I bought the early bird corrupted level prior to playing. I am more of a painter than a gamer.
I am unable to game at present as I am suffering from a lot of the side effects of my medication,
but I hope that doctors are able to find a better mix of drugs in order for me to improve.
I was initially on ibuprofen but after a while I started to get ulcerations in my mouth, so had to switch tablets, to an opioid which does not agree with me (makes me feel drunk).
So this is why I am pledging what I am. The Corrupt level allows me to get one of everything at present, which then allows me to start each army off at a small scale.
Then when I feel that I have found an army I like, I can focus on that one and go from there.
It is pretty much the reason why I have all the Infinity armies also, hehe.
All of my 40k stuff shall be getting sold, as I have grown a bit tired of having to relearn the £45 rulebook every few years and same with the codex.

I think I have a better chance of playing smaller games, as I do not have to transport as many models to Maelstrom and less models to paint for me and more for sale.

I would love the Lawmen to unlock if I am honest. However, I have funded my max possible in order for this KS'er to progress as much as I can.
Having been in the military sort of drums team work into you I goes, hehe. And if we don't get Lawmen, well, I did everything I could to get us there.
I just need to trust in the other backers to do the same. Will they all pull their weight? I probably doubt it, some people want the moon on a stick, hehe, but I will trust them never the less.

mick

It has also been confirmed that what you see is what you get, so Warrior Nation having different ranged weapons on the models will offer them different loadouts in actual game rules. Very glad on that, and may purchase an extra HH box or two to have a good amount of options for certain factions.

"Pull their weight?" Well that's a little offensive.

FYI....having £8K in in painted minis doesn't make you a painter. It makes you a hoarder. You may want to use your veteran care to go talk to someone about that.

Earth Dragon wrote:An interesting tid bit. Outlaw just posted this is a skirmish game first and an army game second. So that is usually telling of where the main focus is on balance when fine tuning.
Though it is not unusual to pledge high and those individuals really do push the projects past goals leading up to the end rush.

Except that by the very definition of the word unusual, having people use the 1k mark as the "standard" is unusual. If it were the norm, there would be more backers in the Corrupt level than any other. it would contain a significant amount of backers. Looking at the total number of backers (784) as of the writing of this post, there are less than 10% of all backers have pledged at the Corrupt Level or higher. Yes there are always people that have cash to throw at these things, perhaps mick is one of the rare people that have backed at a high price, and are vocal about it. Usually people don't like to toss around the idea that they're throwing cash around like that. To put it in perspective. I have a solid job and I survive... if I had a thousand dollars to blow, I'd be able to make a single month's student loan payments. Mick, god bless him and his deep pockets, has the cashflow to pledge and not really think anything of it.

cincydooley wrote:Also, I think $375K is attainable. Relic Knights and Sedktion wars did $225k and $200k respectively in their last day, and even a smaller project like Rivet Wars did over $100k in the last day.

I don't think so, both of those games came from a company/person that is decently well known in the community (Sodapop with Super Dungeon Explore), and Sedition Wars with models sculpted by Studio McVey, both of those games were published by CoolMiniorNot, the same goes with Rivet Wars. While on the other hand, Outlaw Miniatures is a relative unknown in the gaming community that has the backing of (and is possibly owned by) Romeo Filip and Battlefoam, and is getting rules editing and production by the River Horse team (who consists of Rick Priestly, Andy Chambers, and Alessio Cavatore, among others). I'll grant Outlaw Miniatures that they certainly have the right people for the right job for this, but unless they get a massive influx of people on the final day, I don't see this game reaching 375k, it would have to have a massive influx of people pledging.

Earth Dragon wrote:Some folks love models. Give one example of a succussful minis game where people didn't pledge over a grand on kickstarter? You won't find a kickstarter with that being the case. Mike is hardly a unique case. Sure, wicked is probably a more reasonable level, and about a third of the backers are currently on that level. To each their own on that one. And it's those few Mikes who unlock a few extras goals for the masses.

Define successful minis game? Technically I can pull Reaper minis, Kingdom Death, Rivet Wars, any other board game, any role playing game. I mean technically I could count the Brushfire: Scyzantium and Beyond kickstarter as successful, it was a KS to fund the sculpts for new models for an existing game. There were not pledges of 1k or more, but that's cherry picking. And of course Mick isn't a unique case, there are 49 other people that pledged around 1k or more with him . Actually it's not really those like Mick, it's having a deal that entices large numbers of people to get in on it. Look at the Reaper Bones Kickstarter. The sweet spot was 100 dollars. Most people could afford it, and most people got more than their money back.

If you haven't witnessed the $300k last days of some of these projects, doubling the amount of backers, I could see how you'd think that. Point is it HAS happened, and Texas did freeze over a few years ago.

First off, you're going to have to answer to Frazzled for calling Texas hell, and secondly, I'm not saying it hasn't happened, I'm saying that it's not likely with this KS.

Madmick wrote:@Alfndrate,
Hi, You are correct in your reasoning that I bought the early bird corrupted level prior to playing. I am more of a painter than a gamer.
I am unable to game at present as I am suffering from a lot of the side effects of my medication,
but I hope that doctors are able to find a better mix of drugs in order for me to improve.
I was initially on ibuprofen but after a while I started to get ulcerations in my mouth, so had to switch tablets, to an opioid which does not agree with me (makes me feel drunk).
So this is why I am pledging what I am. The Corrupt level allows me to get one of everything at present, which then allows me to start each army off at a small scale.
Then when I feel that I have found an army I like, I can focus on that one and go from there.
It is pretty much the reason why I have all the Infinity armies also, hehe.
All of my 40k stuff shall be getting sold, as I have grown a bit tired of having to relearn the £45 rulebook every few years and same with the codex.

I think I have a better chance of playing smaller games, as I do not have to transport as many models to Maelstrom and less models to paint for me and more for sale.

I would love the Lawmen to unlock if I am honest. However, I have funded my max possible in order for this KS'er to progress as much as I can.
Having been in the military sort of drums team work into you I goes, hehe. And if we don't get Lawmen, well, I did everything I could to get us there.
I just need to trust in the other backers to do the same. Will they all pull their weight? I probably doubt it, some people want the moon on a stick, hehe, but I will trust them never the less.

mick

Why do you care if people "pull their weight"? People are going to pledge what they want to pledge, that's the idea behind a kickstarter. Is to get people to invest in your idea if they think it's worth it. If you have someone coming in here and saying, "I like the lawmen, but I don't think we're going to get to them, I'm out." Then so be it, the KS lost it's value to that backer, it's not about the backers pulling their weight, it's about the project having enough perceived value for each individual customer to stand on it's own.

Also, I like how you said you can start off small, when you're literally getting more than you'll probably ever need

Honestly, this thread has gone over the line way to many times. Quit talking back and forth amongst yourselves. There are PM functions and plenty of other forums to snipe at each other.

I'm not a mod, but I sure as hell can speak up. If you are not talking about the KICKSTARTER, quit talking.


To me, I like the look of the models. Its not my favorite era so that's a bit of a turnoff. And I don't know much about the people behind it, but CMON's Relic Knights have yet to show me much progress (and especially progress that I like) and they are a fairly reputable company with a lot of available cash after their Kickstarter.

I'm watching, and I think it has a good shot at the Lawmen.

HI guys, I am back.
What I meant by "pull you weight" is that you see a few people complaining it's not fair and trying to play mind games to get more. Despite 5 days remaining.
Of course we all what is best for us and I am not trying to say pledge more than you can afford.
What I am saying is if you are interested in supporting this project get behind it and stop messing about.
If it caused offence for using that term I apologise, just a figure of speech I guess.

As for being a border for having what I do. I was on different medication when I bought them, so all intention was made to start my business after my college courses.
At least I will not have any shortage of stock when I get back on my feet! LOL

Might try and start my desert board next week though, after all this excitement

All of the 2nd wave of Enlightened HH have now been resulted

 drazz wrote:
Honestly, this thread has gone over the line way to many times. Quit talking back and forth amongst yourselves. There are PM functions and plenty of other forums to snipe at each other.

I'm not a mod, but I sure as hell can speak up. If you are not talking about the KICKSTARTER, quit talking.


To me, I like the look of the models. Its not my favorite era so that's a bit of a turnoff. And I don't know much about the people behind it, but CMON's Relic Knights have yet to show me much progress (and especially progress that I like) and they are a fairly reputable company with a lot of available cash after their Kickstarter.

I'm watching, and I think it has a good shot at the Lawmen.

Wha are you talking about? Up until mid-feb Soda Pop was supplying updates on digital sculpts weekly and less than a month ago they supplied is with a giant update regarding the present status, which is that the some 100 funded models were in china being tooled and castes right now. To say they haven't shown any progress is pretty false.

If you're going to make your happy little soap box stand, at least have your facts straight.

@ earth - in the rulebook it looks like the hored hands will all have two diff weapon options. Have they said there would be more? I tend to avoid the KS forums because rarely Are they productive.

Yes. Outlaw posted if they are holding it, that will be available. So the Charlie rules were written for ease, but well see many more options in the end for weapons

I have a question that's been bugging me for awhile,

Why are you all calling them Charlie rules? Has there been a beta rules yet, or even alpha? Or is everyone getting charlie mixed up with alpha?

 Alfndrate wrote:
I have a question that's been bugging me for awhile,

Why are you all calling them Charlie rules? Has there been a beta rules yet, or even alpha? Or is everyone getting charlie mixed up with alpha?

I do think that's what's been happening...

If anyone has them mixed up its Outlaw Games. They're calling them the Charlie rules for some reason.

Yeah, that's the point we were making!

I think the right term would've been "pre-Alpha" or maybe a less cumbersome "early development" ruleset, etc etc?

Lol. You guys are a hoot!!

Anyway, I'm wandering what the Lawmen HH would even look like. Are they gonna be Cyborgs?

Earth Dragon wrote:
Lol. You guys are a hoot!!

Anyway, I'm wandering what the Lawmen HH would even look like. Are they gonna be Cyborgs?

I suspect that the robot deputy is going to be an Underboss, with the Hired Hands just being a regular "posse".

Earth Dragon wrote:
Lol. You guys are a hoot!!

Anyway, I'm wandering what the Lawmen HH would even look like. Are they gonna be Cyborgs?

Do we have any concept art of them?

Not the hired hands, but Wyatt Earp was seen with a techy shield and rifle and one sidekick is a more generic droid character featured on the kickstarter main page.

Has me dying to see more.

Edit: And by generic droid I mean it looks like a sidekick character you can have multiple of.

Earth Dragon wrote:
Not the hired hands, but Wyatt Earp was seen with a techy shield and rifle and one sidekick is a more generic droid charactered featured on the kickstarter main page.

Has me dying to see more.

I'm looking at the KS page on my phone, and I don't see anything labeled wyatt earp, or the sidekick you're speaking of... Since you know what they are, can you post an image in this thread? or point me to a post in this thread that has them?