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 Peregrine wrote:
Useless. They suffer from the same "all your eggs in one basket" problem that kills other death star units, once you've bought the Land Raider and an appropriate unit to put inside it you've got 500+ points invested. Sure, that terminator + character death star might obliterate anything it touches, but it can only kill one target per turn and that almost always means it's going to massively overkill a 35-point Rhino or IG infantry squad or whatever. Meanwhile the Land Raider itself has laughable firepower for the points, so its sole purpose is to deliver the death star unit.

End result: anything the Land Raider unit can do can be done better by cheaper units.

Regarding "all your eggs in one basket"

No other item in the SM Codex is an "Assault vehicle," meaning - even though in terms of points efficiency the raw firepower or killing power may be lacking, you have to take into consideration that no other delivery mechanism in the Codex has the ability to allow you to -assault- the turn your disembark. That's a turn right there for assault units.

And upon disembarkation, the Land Raider still has considerable firepower.

Another aspect you failed to consider - AV14 means that death star unit is going to be a huge target that is going to be taking a lot of firepower - successfully.

Maybe you can tell me, since you said that "anything the Land Raider unit can do can be done better by cheaper units," what unit in a SM Codex can allow your assault units to get into close combat more efficiently than a Land Raider?

It depends on which variety of Land Raider, first (basic Land Raider is schizoid and not useful, Crusader is marginally useful as a large Terminator delivery vehicle, Redeemer is more useful since it can do more once it gets there), second it depends on the size of the game (a Land Raider stuffed with Assault Terminators is a third of your army in a 1,500pt game and tends to draw a lot of fire, all eggs in one basket sort of thing), and third it depends on your foe (the density of lance/melta weapons, really).

So Land Raiders can be useful but they are situational; consider the context before deploying one.

I'm pretty sure Land Raiders aren't viable in 6th edition, sad to say. Codex: Necrons being in the game kind of puts a stop to them.

TedNugent wrote:
AV14 means that death star unit is going to be a huge target that is going to be taking a lot of firepower - successfully.

Not really. Your opponent will shoot melta at it, and pretty much ignore it with everything else. Who cares if there's a LR with 5 TH, SS terminators coming at me? The most they can do is assault and then get shot up the next turn.

You can have the same effect by taking two or three of the assault death star squads and simply deep striking them in the case of terminators. Or drop podding them in the case of other assault based units. This target saturation is better than a slowly moving tank, and you have the potential to get more than one expensive unit in combat the turn after.

 MilkyDamBusters wrote:
Hmmm...I agree oh some aspects of your argument, but I don't believe they're only for delivering contents (termies) like I said first off, don't know how, but my Landraider tends to hang around for a while whilst the assault termies are in CC. Maybe blowing the odd chaos rhino and killing a few troops.

Except that "blowing up the odd chaos Rhino" isn't something that justifies a 250 point unit. It's something you do with a 50-point heavy weapon squad. By paying 250 points to do the job of a much cheaper unit you've effectively given your opponent 100-150 free points to add to their list.

TedNugent wrote:
No other item in the SM Codex is an "Assault vehicle," meaning - even though in terms of points efficiency the raw firepower or killing power may be lacking, you have to take into consideration that no other delivery mechanism in the Codex has the ability to allow you to -assault- the turn your disembark. That's a turn right there for assault units.

Then you have to ask yourself whether an assault vehicle is needed at all. If it costs 500+ points to gain an ability then perhaps that ability is just not something you can afford to have in your list.

And upon disembarkation, the Land Raider still has considerable firepower.

No it doesn't. The Land Raider's firepower is laughable for its point cost. It's nice to have a gun or two so it's not utterly useless once the passengers are gone, but a Land Raider's guns are about as useful as a Fire Warrior's assault ability.

Maybe you can tell me, since you said that "anything the Land Raider unit can do can be done better by cheaper units," what unit in a SM Codex can allow your assault units to get into close combat more efficiently than a Land Raider?

That's not a goal. A goal is something like "kill your opponent's scoring units", or "secure the game-winning objective". You can't just start with the assumption that these goals have to be accomplished by assault units.

i find land raiders work best in multiples. 1 will die pretty fast, 2.... well maybe they last longer. 3 and now you have something.

make sure you protect em, because 4 hullpoints is pretty easy to glance off.

As chaos, I generally only run Land Raiders with Abaddon. Simply because he's too good not to get him in the fight a turn earlier.

I'd never run it with a unit that can take as much firepower as TH/SS termies. I'd rather have them shot at, seriously.

 Nevelon wrote:
I like the phobos. When I field my LR, it generally had 5 assault terminators and a chaplain on board. I only have the one, and play WYSWYG, so don't field a LRC or LRR.

I use it as a counter-deathstar reserve unit. Not the start off the table reserve, but the reinforce the fight were needed kind. The first turn or two is slowly advancing, shooting the godhammers. At that point I should have a good idea where the box-o-pain needs to be delivered to. So I move up and assault.

It works for me.

Lol same tactics pretty much, never really used the Landraider in reserve...did once and didn't work so didn't bother doing it again. But apart from the fact that I use Pedro instead if a chaplain, exactly same sort of tactic!


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TedNugent wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:
Useless. They suffer from the same "all your eggs in one basket" problem that kills other death star units, once you've bought the Land Raider and an appropriate unit to put inside it you've got 500+ points invested. Sure, that terminator + character death star might obliterate anything it touches, but it can only kill one target per turn and that almost always means it's going to massively overkill a 35-point Rhino or IG infantry squad or whatever. Meanwhile the Land Raider itself has laughable firepower for the points, so its sole purpose is to deliver the death star unit.

End result: anything the Land Raider unit can do can be done better by cheaper units.

Regarding "all your eggs in one basket"

No other item in the SM Codex is an "Assault vehicle," meaning - even though in terms of points efficiency the raw firepower or killing power may be lacking, you have to take into consideration that no other delivery mechanism in the Codex has the ability to allow you to -assault- the turn your disembark. That's a turn right there for assault units.

And upon disembarkation, the Land Raider still has considerable firepower.

Another aspect you failed to consider - AV14 means that death star unit is going to be a huge target that is going to be taking a lot of firepower - successfully.

Maybe you can tell me, since you said that "anything the Land Raider unit can do can be done better by cheaper units," what unit in a SM Codex can allow your assault units to get into close combat more efficiently than a Land Raider?

Again agree with you, Landraiders are brilliant at delivering stuff fairly safely and punching one big ass hole in you're opponents army.


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 Peregrine wrote:

 MilkyDamBusters wrote:
Hmmm...I agree oh some aspects of your argument, but I don't believe they're only for delivering contents (termies) like I said first off, don't know how, but my Landraider tends to hang around for a while whilst the assault termies are in CC. Maybe blowing the odd chaos rhino and killing a few troops.

Except that "blowing up the odd chaos Rhino" isn't something that justifies a 250 point unit. It's something you do with a 50-point heavy weapon squad. By paying 250 points to do the job of a much cheaper unit you've effectively given your opponent 100-150 free points to add to their list.

TedNugent wrote:
No other item in the SM Codex is an "Assault vehicle," meaning - even though in terms of points efficiency the raw firepower or killing power may be lacking, you have to take into consideration that no other delivery mechanism in the Codex has the ability to allow you to -assault- the turn your disembark. That's a turn right there for assault units.

Then you have to ask yourself whether an assault vehicle is needed at all. If it costs 500+ points to gain an ability then perhaps that ability is just not something you can afford to have in your list.

And upon disembarkation, the Land Raider still has considerable firepower.

No it doesn't. The Land Raider's firepower is laughable for its point cost. It's nice to have a gun or two so it's not utterly useless once the passengers are gone, but a Land Raider's guns are about as useful as a Fire Warrior's assault ability.

Maybe you can tell me, since you said that "anything the Land Raider unit can do can be done better by cheaper units," what unit in a SM Codex can allow your assault units to get into close combat more efficiently than a Land Raider?

That's not a goal. A goal is something like "kill your opponent's scoring units", or "secure the game-winning objective". You can't just start with the assumption that these goals have to be accomplished by assault units.

Exactly what's one of many ways, but a very good way of taking back a secured objective, don't try and be 'clever' or 'awkward, it's assaulting them with a dedicated close combat unit, locked in combat, assault marines WILL win (they always do for me) and then a unit of Sternguard come in and secure or capture the objective...better that drop pods...inaccurate and no terminators and only a small amount of firepower. Rhino...useless...only a storm bolter to use and usless armour but, very cheap in points!

Just a quick one. No mentioned using a godhammer, phobos or whatever you call it as a home side objective taker/holder.

a 5 man scout squad or tact squad could hole up quite nicely inside a landraider while it pops any transports heading its way with its potms lascannons.

not the best use of the points ( 340 ish ! ) but combined with other elements it could help a long way to keeping that objective, especially with the use of cover.

LR's suck. As Tanks they have always lacked efficiency in cost and with the new disembark from vehicle rules they really stink. At least in 5th the 12" + 2" disembark and charge resulted in a larger threat radius that was fairly consistent. Now you go 6" get out WITHIN 6" and hope random charge length doesnt bone you. The issue is when you get out you are still subject to difficult terrain. If your opp is smart he can really limit the threat range of LR-borne infantry.

jamiebishop89 wrote:
Just a quick one. No mentioned using a godhammer, phobos or whatever you call it as a home side objective taker/holder.

a 5 man scout squad or tact squad could hole up quite nicely inside a landraider while it pops any transports heading its way with its potms lascannons.

not the best use of the points ( 340 ish ! ) but combined with other elements it could help a long way to keeping that objective, especially with the use of cover.

Or you could give your Scouts camo-cloaks for +3 points per model and go to ground whenever anyone shoots at them, which should protect them adequately from most threats and costs 16 times less...

I was playing against my freind and i just couldnt even bust his land raider at all. anyone have any tips, i changed my army a bit to focus more on anti tank switched to using 2x rhino plague marine squades 2x meltas each and meltabombs. I also have 2x oblits and a vindicator, should that be enough to break a LR?

 Kingsley wrote:

jamiebishop89 wrote:
Just a quick one. No mentioned using a godhammer, phobos or whatever you call it as a home side objective taker/holder.

a 5 man scout squad or tact squad could hole up quite nicely inside a landraider while it pops any transports heading its way with its potms lascannons.

not the best use of the points ( 340 ish ! ) but combined with other elements it could help a long way to keeping that objective, especially with the use of cover.

Or you could give your Scouts camo-cloaks for +3 points per model and go to ground whenever anyone shoots at them, which should protect them adequately from most threats and costs 16 times less...

Hmmm...I've never had a good experience with scouts...never! Esepcially with objectives!


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potatosack wrote:
I was playing against my freind and i just couldnt even bust his land raider at all. anyone have any tips, i changed my army a bit to focus more on anti tank switched to using 2x rhino plague marine squades 2x meltas each and meltabombs. I also have 2x oblits and a vindicator, should that be enough to break a LR?

Considering that what everyone thinks of the LR, it's weak?? Well then you should have enough there...it is a tough nutshell to crack! Perhaps take melta bombs, dunno what chaos have...never played them...but something like that...

If you go first, put that bad boy on the table. First turn, drive it up 12, pop smoke. Next turn, move 6, disgorge 6, charge. Even better, if you can run it behind a piece of terrain that gives you a cover save, then use flat out to get even closer. Rhinos from your tactical squads are also good for this.


If you go second, reserve it if you are facing meltas pods/rail guns. Otherwise, use it as a giant cover save, and then drive it up 12, pop smoke, next turn, move 6, disgorge.

There is very little in the 6th Edition meta that can reliably pop a Land Raider turn one. I enjoy it when I do it with my Vindicators, but popping a LR turn 1 is rare.

I take Land raider myself in some games its out from the first round in some others it the last vechile standing so its up to the dice

Crazyterran wrote:
If you go first, put that bad boy on the table. First turn, drive it up 12, pop smoke. Next turn, move 6, disgorge 6, charge. Even better, if you can run it behind a piece of terrain that gives you a cover save, then use flat out to get even closer. Rhinos from your tactical squads are also good for this.


If you go second, reserve it if you are facing meltas pods/rail guns. Otherwise, use it as a giant cover save, and then drive it up 12, pop smoke, next turn, move 6, disgorge.

There is very little in the 6th Edition meta that can reliably pop a Land Raider turn one. I enjoy it when I do it with my Vindicators, but popping a LR turn 1 is rare.

So pop smoke, and not use guns at all? Just smoke? That's a bit of a waste or am I wrong?


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 Dreal wrote:
I take Land raider myself in some games its out from the first round in some others it the last vechile standing so its up to the dice

Same here!

How is it that everyone else's Land Raiders have become so squishy when the ones in my game group last for a good long while? Is it because we don't play Necrons?

 SoloFalcon1138 wrote:
How is it that everyone else's Land Raiders have become so squishy when the ones in my game group last for a good long while? Is it because we don't play Necrons?

Probably lol, necrons are a pain in the arse...land raider cam on from reserves just where I didn't want it to go and to make the most of the situation and circumstances it was a suicide mission!

Now if you look at the Apocalypse and Aeronautica rules you find some fun Land Raider variants. My favorite is the Ares (which is a Redeemer with a Demolisher cannon and Siege Shield for around 300pts) and the Helios (which is a regular twin-lascannon Land Raider with the heavy bolter traded out for a Whirlwind launcher at 280pts, with the option to use Hyperios missiles (Skyfire/Interceptor Krak missiles that reroll to hit)), since both of them can do a lot more damage than any of the regular-Codex variants can.

 AnomanderRake wrote:
Now if you look at the Apocalypse and Aeronautica rules you find some fun Land Raider variants. My favorite is the Ares (which is a Redeemer with a Demolisher cannon and Siege Shield for around 300pts) and the Helios (which is a regular twin-lascannon Land Raider with the heavy bolter traded out for a Whirlwind launcher at 280pts, with the option to use Hyperios missiles (Skyfire/Interceptor Krak missiles that reroll to hit)), since both of them can do a lot more damage than any of the regular-Codex variants can.

I really like the Helios Landraider...but I'm not sure if I'm allowed to use it in our games...

I want the Ares in the new Dark Angels codex...

I've been playing a lot of 6th edition, like 4 games average a week. And vehicles have just become glass houses of death. LRs may not explode like fireworks on the 4th of July like a Rhino but they get glanced out of the game fairly well. Since 6th I haven't had one survive T3. Granted, on T2 the payload is delivered but so many points invested just to get a unit into its 1 assault on average per game is kind of disheartening. And if it gets auto gibbed by drop pods or necron fire your back to square one of fotslogging anyway. Overall the LR got pooped on. The snapfiring for moving, the easy glancing to death. It's just not what it used to be.

 Goat wrote:
I've been playing a lot of 6th edition, like 4 games average a week. And vehicles have just become glass houses of death. LRs may not explode like fireworks on the 4th of July like a Rhino but they get glanced out of the game fairly well. Since 6th I haven't had one survive T3. Granted, on T2 the payload is delivered but so many points invested just to get a unit into its 1 assault on average per game is kind of disheartening. And if it gets auto gibbed by drop pods or necron fire your back to square one of fotslogging anyway. Overall the LR got pooped on. The snapfiring for moving, the easy glancing to death. It's just not what it used to be.

Hmmm everyone has different experiences with the LR...clearly yours was bad...I think the LR is still bad ass!

tuiman wrote:
I prefer the crusader/redeemer over the vanilla raider.

The one reason being the assault cannon over the heavy bolter. However increased capacity means more termies inside, and when getting close, you can bring those ap3 templates to effect.

Problem with the normal one is that the long range lascannons goes against the need to get close to deliver cargo.

I don't have to worry about deep-strikes as can surround it with my warp-quakeing strikers and coteaz for I've been expecting you

I love playing drop pod armies (evil laugh)

The only people who take the 'nilla variety are CSM who have no other options. The crusader and redeemer are much better. The thing is primarily a transport and frankly the nilla variety doesnt transport all that much. The spartan assault tank is frankly just straight better than the LR nilla variety, so if you can take that, do that instead.

Drop pods are great almost broken

 Exergy wrote:

tuiman wrote:
I prefer the crusader/redeemer over the vanilla raider.

The one reason being the assault cannon over the heavy bolter. However increased capacity means more termies inside, and when getting close, you can bring those ap3 templates to effect.

Problem with the normal one is that the long range lascannons goes against the need to get close to deliver cargo.

I don't have to worry about deep-strikes as can surround it with my warp-quakeing strikers and coteaz for I've been expecting you

I love playing drop pod armies (evil laugh)

The only people who take the 'nilla variety are CSM who have no other options. The crusader and redeemer are much better. The thing is primarily a transport and frankly the nilla variety doesnt transport all that much. The spartan assault tank is frankly just straight better than the LR nilla variety, so if you can take that, do that instead.

Drop pods are great almost broken

To be honest I prefer the vanilla variety...extra lascannons always does a world of good that roll up with units inside as you don't have to worry about snapshots and the heavy bolter is great for pwning just about any infantry....espicially god damned orks!


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 SoloFalcon1138 wrote:
I want the Ares in the new Dark Angels codex...

Love the look of it, but it sacrifices transport capacity for the demolisher...I need that transport space + I have vindicators...

I'm quite the fan of Land Raiders, I was disappointed to see a lack of Chaos varities, but in terms of my Templars and Dark Angels it's rare I leave home without one provided it's a high enough points game.

I tend to only use them in 1500pts or greater as I feel they are too much of a point sink at anything less.

For my Khorne however I plan to use quite a few full of my precious Bezerkers, gonna roll out some hurt AV14 style.

Although I can see the argument against them being useful, I just love them simply for the main fact that they can be fluffy, fun and somewhat competitive, although I generally always play for fun it's nice to know that fun doesn't always mean useless or random

 MilkyDamBusters wrote:
I, personally am a great fan of the Landraider and have one in my crimson fist army which I use for running up assault terminators and Pedro kantor...this works very well and although a slow transport compared to rhinos etc it is very resilient, packs a might ton of ass kicking firepower and takes up a dedicated transport slot for me...it is expensive and I the 6th edition it is made weaker...but I still find this one useful and funny hunk of metal. What are your thoughts?

IMHO they are better in 6th due to less people taking melta.